A lot of workaholics don't like to stop and waste time on fixes that'd actually save them time in the long run. Just say your peace, and they'll make of it what they will.

My ego is secure enough, and I am confident enough to admit error. But, if I don't think I have done something wrong, I will not apologize or act like I've made a mistake. ESTJs can be as wrong or right as anyone else. I wouldn't put them or anyone else on a pedestal like that. This person you're talking about seems insecure. If they don't have the strength and self-awareness to take accountability for their own actions and are always blaming things on you, that's their problem. Time is too precious to be wasted on people like that. Trust your instincts, btw. If you don't feel respected, move on.

Cool, thanks. I actually hadn't considered that.. very useful

I was going to say something along the same lines: often, not being willing to admit I could be wrong is not because I'm overly confident but rather because I'm not and I can't stand someone kicking me while I'm already down, so to speak. But we don't like being wrong, this much is true. I know from personal experience that we don't take other people proving us wrong very well. We like to be the ones to show others that we know what we are talking about and convince them using good, sound, logical arguments. The more we argue something, the harder it is to come back and admit we could be wrong.

Not willing to admit their own issues is not necessarily an ESTJ thing. That's a personal thing. People of any type can have that problem. It takes character to be willing to humble yourself and admit fault.

As far as the health problems... that does sound very ESTJ. We hold to tradition and the way things were and have always worked for us. We don't like accepting new things. It will take a while to warm up to the idea. Just keep encouraging them to at least look into it.

Totally understand this...in a relationship with an ESTJ right now especially about the health thing!

Bella2013 said:

I get the impression that ESTJ's can never be wrong and even when they are they will never admit it to anyone. I don't really have a problem with this; I love their confidence, but I am perplexed by it.

Same goes with physical health. Even if they clearly have the same health problems that I am experiencing, they refuse to admit it even when the fix is easy and would save/ improve their life, and so they continue to do things the way they are used to. Edit: this particular person could actually be an ESFJ, I'm not 100% sure.

They also refuse to have any fault found in them, and every problem seems to be related to 'my issues'. Even when I admit my issues, it is extremely rare that they will ever admit anything wrong with themselves.

Also, they say they don't play mind games, but I find it hard to believe that all the mind games that go on could just be me...

I find relationships with ESTJ's addictive but weird... Any insight would be much appreciated

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I agree with the comments of others on here. As "Boss" said, he won't admit wrongdoing if he doesn't think he did anything wrong. That's the rub. In my experience ESTJs are very "matter of fact" in their actions and words. They're not all that concerned with the "feelings" of others. It's not "wrong" for them to point out the indiscretions of anyone. Many think the ESTJ is wrong in "how" they do/say things rather than "what" they do/say. I think that's the point of contention.

I have somewhat difficulty into admitting that I am wrong, but that is mostly because it takes A LOT to convince me that I was or am wrong. I stick to what I say or what I do unless there is substantial logical evidence against it. If I do get such evidence (very rarely happens), I think about it, then form a new opinion or modify my old one. I never simply just accept someone the opinion of someone else as my own.

As for my health, I do some wrong and some right things. For example, I workout a lot and I sometimes force myself to run to the point of which I cannot even stand anymore. It is very bad for my feet and I shouldn't do that, but I do anyway because I am stubborn I guess..

As for mind games..I use mostly logic and I try to clearly state myself and my reasoning. But there are some people who do not like logic or reasoning at all. These people rely only on their feelings and will not go out of their comfort zone to accomplish anything.. I find with people like that, it is best to get to their feelings in order to get them moving. Tell them about their talents and what they could accomplish with them. Make them realize what they are putting to waste and give them some ideas on how to use their skills/personality wisely. Work them up by making them feel determined and driven. With people like that you need to recharge this motivated feelings drive after a little while, because it doesn't last that long for them and they easily lose sight of things. Is that what you mean by mind games?

Not what I was referring to exactly but it puts into words something which I had been trying to work out about ESTJ's. I used to resist such help, but they generally seem to do it meaning well. I have forgotten what I meant by mind games - he is the one who always brings it up, not me... In fact now I remember, so did someone else in the past - all I would be doing is trying to reason with them and they would say I was playing mind games. Rather confusing for me actually.

Sabrah said:

As for mind games..I use mostly logic and I try to clearly state myself and my reasoning. But there are some people who do not like logic or reasoning at all. These people rely only on their feelings and will not go out of their comfort zone to accomplish anything.. I find with people like that, it is best to get to their feelings in order to get them moving. Tell them about their talents and what they could accomplish with them. Make them realize what they are putting to waste and give them some ideas on how to use their skills/personality wisely. Work them up by making them feel determined and driven. With people like that you need to recharge this motivated feelings drive after a little while, because it doesn't last that long for them and they easily lose sight of things. Is that what you mean by mind games?

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Ah! I think I understand what they meant. I am a more thinking person than I am a feeling one. I got 95% thinking and only 5% feeling on the test. lol. But I generally realize and acknowledge that feelings hold importance and that you must consider them for other people. But there are some ESTJs (like my father) who see no significance in them. And end up hurting the feelings of other because of that and not even acknowledging that they could have done so. With ESTJs like that, you need to get to the real beef using only logic and no feelings. Whatever an ESTJ like that considers BS they will assume you are trying to play mind games with them. It is better to not use "feeling phrases" or other such lines on them. They may be completely sincere to you, but to them since they do not have such feelings it will look like nothing but BS and not the actual beef at hand. I'm sorry if I am not explaining this well enough, I'm not that great at expressing myself.. I'm sorry you have to deal with ESTJs like that. My father is one of them and has caused my family much heartache because of it. I am also an ESTJ like him, but I am determined to be different and more understanding of others. Do you have any other questions regarding help with those ESTJs? If so feel free to send me a message and I will see if I can help.

Bella2013 said:

Not what I was referring to exactly but it puts into words something which I had been trying to work out about ESTJ's. I used to resist such help, but they generally seem to do it meaning well. I have forgotten what I meant by mind games - he is the one who always brings it up, not me... In fact now I remember, so did someone else in the past - all I would be doing is trying to reason with them and they would say I was playing mind games. Rather confusing for me actually.

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Thanks, that's helpful. I'll send you a message if I need any more help

Sabrah said:

Ah! I think I understand what they meant. I am a more thinking person than I am a feeling one. I got 95% thinking and only 5% feeling on the test. lol. But I generally realize and acknowledge that feelings hold importance and that you must consider them for other people. But there are some ESTJs (like my father) who see no significance in them. And end up hurting the feelings of other because of that and not even acknowledging that they could have done so. With ESTJs like that, you need to get to the real beef using only logic and no feelings. Whatever an ESTJ like that considers BS they will assume you are trying to play mind games with them. It is better to not use "feeling phrases" or other such lines on them. They may be completely sincere to you, but to them since they do not have such feelings it will look like nothing but BS and not the actual beef at hand. I'm sorry if I am not explaining this well enough, I'm not that great at expressing myself.. I'm sorry you have to deal with ESTJs like that. My father is one of them and has caused my family much heartache because of it. I am also an ESTJ like him, but I am determined to be different and more understanding of others. Do you have any other questions regarding help with those ESTJs? If so feel free to send me a message and I will see if I can help.

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