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Discussion Starter #1
I really enjoyed this movie, and I didn't really even mind the slight excess of action scenes because the plot and performances were so good.


Cobb (Leonardo DiCaprio) = ISTP
Ariadne (Ellen Page, young female dream architect) = INTP
Mal (Marion Cotillard) (his wife) = INTJ
Arthur (Joseph Gordon-Levitt, guy who did all the floating stuff in the hotel) = ESTJ
Eames (Tom Hardy, smart ass British guy) = ENTP
Saito (Ken Watanabe, Japanese businessman) = INTJ
Yusuf (Dileep Rao, chemist) = INTP
Robert Fischer (Cillian Murphy, guy whose mind they changed) = INFP
Maurice Fischer (Pete Postlethwaite, his rich dying dad) = INTJ
Miles (Michael Caine, Cobb's dad) = INFJ



What ya'll thank??
 

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I saw it a couple of weeks ago, when it first came out. That was definitely a movie that only an intuiting type could appreciate. I was with an ENP that was pumped afterward. It really did nothing for me. I thought maybe one played a sensing role.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Mal was scary.:dry:
Why is she an INTJ?
But you've answered your own question! :crazy:

Seriously though it was because she was so methodical and calculated about exactly what she needed to do to force Cobb to go along with her plan to kill themselves--wrecked the hotel room to make it look like a fight, wrote a letter to their lawyer claiming Cobb had been trying to kill her, etc.

Not to mention the whole "omg our perceptions are deceiving us so much that we need to kill ourselves to escape this false reality and get back to the REAL one--you don't see how we're being duped by the assumptions we make about reality; I'm the only one truly perceptive enough to see it!" just reeks of overactive Ni. That's what Cobb gets for planting "Reality isn't real" in an Ni dom's head.
 

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Cobb (Leonardo DiCaprio) = INFJ with an NI and Ti loop (represents the influence of his wife's death. Paraphrase: "Do you know what it is to be a lover? To be part of a whole")
Mal (Marion Cotillard) (his wife) = ENFJ (Se is too vivid for me to appreciate her as an INTJ. Also I can see how her actions are led by a misguided Fe function. She is in an Fe Se loop, representing her fragmented being now that she is separated from Cobb)
Ariadne (Ellen Page, young female dream architect) = INTP Agreed
Arthur (Joseph Gordon-Levitt, guy who did all the floating stuff in the hotel) = ISTP (Focused on logic and action. It would make sense that Eames, being a blatant ENTP, would describe him as boring; however, he is daring and willing to work with unforseen circumstances in a present tense, Se, manner.)
Eames (Tom Hardy, smart ass British guy) = ENTP (Yes, with an exceptionally strong P preference)
Saito (Ken Watanabe, Japanese businessman) = INTJ (With a strong Fi tertiary "I will honor the arrangement." A great representation the honor fueled tendencies of the INTJ personality)
Yusuf (Dileep Rao, chemist) = ENFP (There is a undertone of Fi to his character; Agrees to Cobbs suicidal plan of three dream architechting when he knows the consequences; not a very logically sound choice. Impulsive reasoning: "he agreed to give me his whole share")
Robert Fischer (Cillian Murphy, guy whose mind they changed) = IXFP (either way, Fi seems to be the most important function on his characer. Since he remains so indesicive throught the movie, I cannot choose between the two
Maurice Fischer (Pete Postlethwaite, his rich dying dad) = INTJ
Miles (Michael Caine, Cobb's dad) = XNFJ ("no room to think in that office" Iwould guess that he likes to be in a more people oriented environment like a classroom, which would point me towards ENFJ; however, he serves mainly as a link between Cobb and his final goal.
 

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Mal (Marion Cotillard) (his wife) = ENFJ (Se is too vivid for me to appreciate her as an INTJ. Also I can see how her actions are led by a misguided Fe function. She is in an Fe Se loop, representing her fragmented being now that she is separated from Cobb)
I totally agree. I think she's an ENFJ.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Cobb (Leonardo DiCaprio) = INFJ with an NI and Ti loop (represents the influence of his wife's death. Paraphrase: "Do you know what it is to be a lover? To be part of a whole")
Mal (Marion Cotillard) (his wife) = ENFJ (Se is too vivid for me to appreciate her as an INTJ. Also I can see how her actions are led by a misguided Fe function. She is in an Fe Se loop, representing her fragmented being now that she is separated from Cobb)
Ariadne (Ellen Page, young female dream architect) = INTP Agreed
Arthur (Joseph Gordon-Levitt, guy who did all the floating stuff in the hotel) = ISTP (Focused on logic and action. It would make sense that Eames, being a blatant ENTP, would describe him as boring; however, he is daring and willing to work with unforseen circumstances in a present tense, Se, manner.)
Eames (Tom Hardy, smart ass British guy) = ENTP (Yes, with an exceptionally strong P preference)
Saito (Ken Watanabe, Japanese businessman) = INTJ (With a strong Fi tertiary "I will honor the arrangement." A great representation the honor fueled tendencies of the INTJ personality)
Yusuf (Dileep Rao, chemist) = ENFP (There is a undertone of Fi to his character; Agrees to Cobbs suicidal plan of three dream architechting when he knows the consequences; not a very logically sound choice. Impulsive reasoning: "he agreed to give me his whole share")
Robert Fischer (Cillian Murphy, guy whose mind they changed) = IXFP (either way, Fi seems to be the most important function on his characer. Since he remains so indesicive throught the movie, I cannot choose between the two
Maurice Fischer (Pete Postlethwaite, his rich dying dad) = INTJ
Miles (Michael Caine, Cobb's dad) = XNFJ ("no room to think in that office" Iwould guess that he likes to be in a more people oriented environment like a classroom, which would point me towards ENFJ; however, he serves mainly as a link between Cobb and his final goal.
1) Not going to argue about Yusuf, he was a pretty minor character and I didn't pay him that much attention so ENFP might be fine. I don't know; I have to see it again.

2) I kind of like your ENFJ for Mal, I've been rethinking her. I think NJ is pretty obvious, but you're right, she (at least in Cobb's memories) seemed very outwardly expressive of emotions. Honestly that struck me as Fi--wouldn't Fe put more stock in her responsibilities to her children in the event that her assumption that real life isn't real turns out to be wrong?

She doesn't seem to show much Fe, crassly screwing over her family without even considering that she might be wrong, and intentionally ruining Cobb's life for failing to go along with it. Look at the way she repeatedly ignores her familial responsibilities in favor of pushing the envelope and further exploring dream research--in the bottom dream level on the shore of her subconscious, she actually consciously chooses to lock away her totem and forget that this world isn't real. She'd rather live in pure creative fantasy than return to real life and perform her responsibilities to her family--that's really not very Fe at all.

Hard to say, though...I think INFJ might work better. Every scene we see her in, she's really really upset, and INTJs can get pretty over the top on the rare occasions that they become extremely enraged. Becoming so engrossed in the idea that all of your perceptions are illusions completely misleading everything you perceive as real to the point that you need to kill yourself to escape it is the anti-Se, so I don't really get your Fe+Se loop read. I have a hard time seeing how anyone but an Ni dom could become so completely convinced of something like that.

3) No offense but I can't get behind INFJ for Cobb at all; that's a really awful read. Ti with a lot of Ni is correct, but his auxiliary is quite obviously Se and not Fe:

--At the very beginning he says to Mal that he knows Saito is hiding the information in the safe because "he looked right at it when I said secrets";
--The others comment on how he is known for breaking all the rules and taking whatever bold action he feels is right at the moment, like when he abruptly switches to the plan where they tell the dreamer he is dreamer (can't remember what it was called);
--DiCaprio almost always plays an xSTP; it seems probable that he actually is one in real life.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
no way Cobb is INFJ.

i like simulated's typing better.
Thanks!

btw, slight addendum: I now think Arthur is ISTJ, not ESTJ.


I totally agree. I think she's an ENFJ.
Please explain where you saw Fe influence. She was far more interested in pushing the boundaries of dream exploration than in dealing with anything in the real world, which screams introvert to me. I could maybe see INFJ, but I don't understand where you guys are getting all this Se for her. She killed herself because she was convinced her immediate sensory impressions of reality were trivial lies--that's about as un-Se as it gets!

And regarding Arthur, ISTP is nonsense; he was a stalwart traditionalist who couldn't stop micromanaging others and lecturing them for their unpreparedness. He hated it when plans got changed; he was the one always insisting that they stick to the plan and do things by the book. He was definitely focused on logic and action, but that's no more an argument for ISTP than it is for ISTJ. Any ST type is going to tend to be that way; Arthur clearly had that Te sense of, "I'm the only one competent enough to keep everyone in line and make things run efficiently, so that's my duty" that you get so often from STJs especially.
 

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Thanks!

btw, slight addendum: I now think Arthur is ISTJ, not ESTJ.




Please explain where you saw Fe influence. She was far more interested in pushing the boundaries of dream exploration than in dealing with anything in the real world, which screams introvert to me. I could maybe see INFJ, but I don't understand where you guys are getting all this Se for her. She killed herself because she was convinced her immediate sensory impressions of reality were trivial lies--that's about as un-Se as it gets!

And regarding Arthur, ISTP is nonsense; he was a stalwart traditionalist who couldn't stop micromanaging others and lecturing them for their unpreparedness. He hated it when plans got changed; he was the one always insisting that they stick to the plan and do things by the book. He was definitely focused on logic and action, but that's no more an argument for ISTP than it is for ISTJ. Any ST type is going to tend to be that way; Arthur clearly had that Te sense of, "I'm the only one competent enough to keep everyone in line and make things run efficiently, so that's my duty" that you get so often from STJs especially.
She acts impulsively and often violently, cares little about the people around her, even if she conciders their pain (not very Fi, IMO.) If a strong Se and Fe user came to believe, in the deepest part of her psyche that the reality is an illusion, they would probably come to act decisively to get back to a place where these functions are useful. An Ni dom would probably care less if their world was unreal if they are able to live an enriched existence. I believe that most Ni's think to none degree or another that the world is a mirage, anyways. I see Fe in her well meant manipulation of Cobb. An INTJ would be less possessive and less inclined to force somebody they loved into a perspective that the other does not share.
You could be right about Cobb. I got the impression that he was missing a piece of his personality. I have noticed that When people break up badly, they seem to be missing a quality that their ex used to nurish. It would be logical to think that he allowed her to be the Fe in his life and became fragmented because of it, causing him to relly more on Se as a form of expression. In the beggining of the movie one can see that he tries to convince his future employer in an peaceful Fe form; however, his failure shows that he no longer has such a compelling influence with this function; thus he has to use plan B (break into the safe directly Se.)
Really, since these characters are so troubled, there is no way to concretely type them unless they take the test themselves. But this is what I see. I guess we can fill a lot of lines to get our own conclusions.
 

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I saw it a couple of weeks ago, when it first came out. That was definitely a movie that only an intuiting type could appreciate. I was with an ENP that was pumped afterward. It really did nothing for me. I thought maybe one played a sensing role.
My istp friend loved it.... weird.... actually so did all of the sensors i know.
 

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My istp friend loved it.... weird.... actually so did all of the sensors i know.
srsly there should have been enough visually stunning/exciting action scenes to keep any SP happy, right? :crazy:


She acts impulsively and often violently, cares little about the people around her, even if she conciders their pain (not very Fi, IMO.) If a strong Se and Fe user came to believe, in the deepest part of her psyche that the reality is an illusion, they would probably come to act decisively to get back to a place where these functions are useful.
The point is that worrying about whether reality is actually real is beside the point for extroverted attitudes, because they adapt to external context and thus wouldn't be focused on whether that external context conflicts with some internally grounded ideal about how reality "should" be. Remember, extroverted attitudes try to make the self more like the objective outer world, while introverted functions try to make the outer world more like the subjective internal self.

She doesn't act impulsively; her entire plan was strictly calculated. She didn't just randomly decide to jump off a building on a whim; she planned out exactly what she needed to do to get what she wanted and then executed it, step by step, methodically and perfectly. Not to mention, as I said before, Se is the least likely function to care about whether immediate sensory impressions are "real" according to some introverted perception standard. From an Se standpoint, they seem real to the senses; therefore they are real, period.

Caring little about the people around her and being self-centered (seeking only to continue discovering the nature of dreams and expand her perceptual understanding, to the near-total exclusion of any externally imposed influence) is classically introverted, and only further adds to my case for her probably not being an F type. "I'm gonna get what I want cause that's what I feel is right for me" is much more Fi than Fe; the negative Fe response is more, "I'm gonna do what I 'know' is best for my friends/family/other cultural group, no matter who I have to step on to make that happen." Fe can be quite nasty and hurtful, yes, but it's based on an externally imposed moral standard, whereas Fi is not.

Example: Fe user abuses his awareness of the collective moral standards of his social group to manipulate people into ousting a person he dislikes by painting that person as out of touch with the group's most important values. Fe user justifies this to himself by thinking, "Well, if he's not going to respect our group's standards then he deserves it."

Other end: Fi user abuses his ability to read the emotions of others by using them to pick at someone's emotional weak spots and make him feel further insecure. Fi user justifies this to himself by thinking, "Well, if he's going to hurt my feelings/threaten my right to self-expression then he deserves it."

An Ni dom would probably care less if their world was unreal if they are able to live an enriched existence. I believe that most Ni's think to none degree or another that the world is a mirage, anyways. I see Fe in her well meant manipulation of Cobb. An INTJ would be less possessive and less inclined to force somebody they loved into a perspective that the other does not share.
I think most Ni doms think that the world as we see it is purely a product of our perceptions, but what Mal did is really exaggerating that perspective and taking it to unhealthy extremes.

And uh, INTJs under the influence of overwhelming emotions that they don't know how to deal with become ridiculously possessive, controlling and manipulative. I dunno where you got the idea that they don't--you do realize they're Te users, right? (Ever seen The Godfather, Part II? 'Nuff said!)

You could be right about Cobb. I got the impression that he was missing a piece of his personality. I have noticed that When people break up badly, they seem to be missing a quality that their ex used to nurish. It would be logical to think that he allowed her to be the Fe in his life and became fragmented because of it, causing him to relly more on Se as a form of expression. In the beggining of the movie one can see that he tries to convince his future employer in an peaceful Fe form; however, his failure shows that he no longer has such a compelling influence with this function; thus he has to use plan B (break into the safe directly Se.)
Really, since these characters are so troubled, there is no way to concretely type them unless they take the test themselves. But this is what I see. I guess we can fill a lot of lines to get our own conclusions.
Well I can't really buy this theory since I don't think Mal was an Fe user at all in the first place, but smart Se users are very good at the sort of negotation that Cobb is doing at the beginning of the movie. They read body language well and are skilled at convincing people by reading subtle physical cues in their responses--hence the ESTP salesman stereotype. That is what Cobb is doing--not appealing to Fe. He tells Saito that it would benefit him to pay for his services, which is very Se.

The Fe strategy in that situation would probably depend more on emphasizing some common moral or cultural ground that the two share in order to foster an emotional connection that makes Saito more likely to trust him with important information. But he didn't do that--he went the, "Look what it's in it for YOU if you let me do this!" route, which is classic Se.

He runs a lot of very slick Se tricks on a number of people throughout the movie that, frankly, INFJs simply don't have the improvisational ability or smooth quick responsiveness to pull off. Fe creates its own kind of charisma for them and they make that work, but it's far more calculated and based much more on appealing to cultural similarities than on creating a high pressure sales pitch designed to trick someone into an impulsive decision that favors both parties--which is what Se does, and exactly what Cobb does every time he needs to convince anyone of anything throughout the movie.

You're right that he's missing part of his personality--but that'd be his inferior Fe, which is already crappy in the first place as an inferior function, but gets even worse because he has such severe psychological and emotional problems. I'm reminded of Christian Bale's Bruce Wayne (coincidentally also a Chris Nolan character)--same process going on with the inferior Fe.

Cobb also doesn't show the counseling/advice-giving/empathy-driven behavior typical of INFJs. He had a lot less interest in helping others and was, above all, out for himself. Typical ISTP.
 

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I really liked Inception, but I think you'd have to be an N or have strong Ti (or both) to enjoy it. An INTJ (me), an INFP, and an ISTP loved it, but an ESTJ and an ISFJ were luke-warm.

What's the reasons for Ariadne being INTP? Am I the only one who thinks she might be a sensor? Just because she was manipulating an imaginary world doesn't mean that she wasn't still physically creating an environment.
 

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I really liked Inception, but I think you'd have to be an N or have strong Ti (or both) to enjoy it. An INTJ (me), an INFP, and an ISTP loved it, but an ESTJ and an ISFJ were luke-warm.
My mom is ESFJ and she loved it, so that kinda shoots down the whole "you have to be an N or have strong Ti to enjoy it" theory. :tongue:

What's the reasons for Ariadne being INTP? Am I the only one who thinks she might be a sensor? Just because she was manipulating an imaginary world doesn't mean that she wasn't still physically creating an environment.
She was INTP as hell. It doesn't have anything to do with manipulating a real or imaginary world; Cobb was also a dream architect and most everyone seems to agree he was an ISTP. The concept of structural architecture seems related to Ti (or Te when it comes to applying that architecture to an external world process.)

If you think she was a S type, show why you think you saw strong Si or Se influence.
 

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Alright, alright, simulatedworld. I've read enough of your posts to know not to attempt to debate with you. :wink: I'm just curious as to what made her so "INTP as hell". I'd love to learn something.
 

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Alright, alright, simulatedworld. I've read enough of your posts to know not to attempt to debate with you. :wink: I'm just curious as to what made her so "INTP as hell". I'd love to learn something.
Tell you what, when the movie comes out on DVD I'll buy it and go through and find exact instances for you. I only saw it once in the theater and I don't have a good memory for detail, so remind me when the DVD comes out and I'll give it a shot. :)
 
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