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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

I'm opening this thread because I want to know how others INJs experience Dual-seeking Se. I will tell you how I experience it, and I would like to know if it's the same for you.

So, basically : A feeling of potential. The potential of being able to change things in the world, and have a big impact on the society. Not only a feeling. A desire. A very strong crave of doing things, and be the best everywhere.
A desire of influence, of power, of excellence.

But the truth is that it's easy to be discouraged. I'm not oblivious to my surroundings. Maybe people thinks that Ni dominants are clumsy or unable to know the concrete data around them. But that's not true. I have a high sensory perception. I love being surrounded by beauty, I like buying nice clothes, eating good food. I'm very sensitive to sensory data, I can't eat low quality food, or being badly dressed. I'm not good at creating it, but I'm good at perceiving it and trying to do it.
Low tolerance to physical pain, because again I'm sensitive to sensory data.
The truth is that I put more efforts in trying to get meaning and potential of things, than in perceiving the sensory data as a whole. But still, I perceive it and try to appreciate it.

I also secretly crave of living intense sensorial experience (luxury and stuff).

Back to the willpower, I have the sensation that I can get everything I want, with time and hard-work. No pain no gain would be my motto. But this willpower is low. I don't have enough willpower to initiate great projects, and when I do I have trouble doing it. That's why I admire Se-Users.

My favourite manga is Bakuman :



Yeah boring future. I can see it. But I can also see that I can change it. And I want to.



This guy's name is Mashiro. He was going with the flow. He's a kind of ISFP. He wasn't that aware of his future (Tertiary Ni), but he was very good at drawing. Very very good. He draw manga since he was a child.

Then, a girl promise to marry him if he became a famous mangaka. And that's how I can see the forceful willpower of Se. He started to work very hard. It was crazy. And he became the number one of mangakas.

At the beginning, he was a normal guy, going with the flow. But with his power, he changed his future. He created his future. This influence of time, is what I'm seeeking. It's good to see time with Ni, but it's better to change it.


This ISTP girl is Matoi Ryuko. Her father get killed, and she's tere to take revenge. She want to find the assassin, and will fight against everyone, because this crazy city is full of crazy guys. She's all alone against the entire city, and will reach her goal anyway, because she wants too.


Yeah, she has to climb this thing, full of ennemies. But she's not affraid at all. She'll beat everyone's a** for it

Hell yeah, Se is awesome. I can give you a lot of example of Se characters in this way. But I don't want to make a long and boring post (and some people aren't found of anime so...).

That's it. I would like to know if you relate to this? Or at least, tell me how do you relate to your inferior Se? I'm extremly curious about this, and I hope that you will recognize yourself in this short description.
 

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I'll say that, like you, I too experience both a desire to change my future and affect my surroundings (though this doesn't really sound very much related to Se to me, considering it's a perceiving function), as well as something akin to admiration of Se types. Directly opposing this, however, is my crippling inattentiveness to said surroundings and an absurdly strong focus on how I can change the future and what it will become, such that I end up lacking the time and resources to do so.

In actuality, I just don't pay attention to my Se much. I could look at everything around me, seemingly observing the entirety of my surroundings in what would appear to be great detail, but I don't actually take in any of that information. At least, not consciously. What I'm actually doing is letting my mind wander, sometimes maybe going blank. Meditation, in a sense. As a result, I end up very much oblivious to my senses.

Unlike you, I have a very high tolerance to pain, because it simply does not register, and the taste of food has never meant anything to me because, well, it's food. We have to eat to survive, so I'm just gonna eat. This does, however, leave a sort of emptiness in experiencing the world. I don't have many opinions like a favorite food or favorite color because they don't leave much of an impression on me. Tastes, smells, colors, they're all kind of just there, adding to how I see the world, but more or less arbitrary.

This is Se for me. Just soaking in all of the sounds, sights, smells, etc. of the world without really meaning to, doing anything with that information, or even really realizing that I have said information in the first place. It's up to Ni to interpret this jumbled mess into something that actually matters in my mind, and then it goes to my judging functions to figure out how I can use this, but Ni would rather look at the concepts behind all of the information and "forgets" the actual input once it comes up with its conclusion.

On ocassion, Se will try to take the reigns from Ni and do its own thing, but this ends up just being kind of annoying. I get distracted by things that normally wouldn't break my attention, I spend too much time fretting over what turns out to be minute details, etc. And yet still never ends up interacting with my environment in any meaningful or initiang any plans to change the future like I want to. No, I instead pay an obsessive amount of attention to things that do not warrant it, worry about the possible outcomes of events despite already having a general idea of how things will play out, and almost completely lose my sense of moderation. It's not all bad though. I just wish that I had better control over it.

Anyways, that's how Se plays out for me, or at least how I think it does.
 

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From what I understand about cognitive functions, the one that want to change things is Je, be it Te or Fe. Also, most of the time the environment affects in some way how we work with our functions. For example, I live in a house that highly appreciate Te and Ti, so my ENFP brother appears as a T dom/aux more than a F (I used to think he was an ENTP). I can see that maybe you developed more your Se than other INxJ's. Or maybe you're an ENxJ with terciary Se, but i'm going to assume you know your type.


Well, in my own experience, Se is a pain in the ass. I get annoyed everytime i need my Se, specially when i play games like League of Legends in which i need to pay attention to a trillion things at the same time AND make good decitions taking in mind all that data. I deal with this stuff making plans beforehand, analyzing how others play and how they react to a given moment, etc. But i suck at changing plans and making decitions in the fly.

On the other hand, i really appreciate when things feel good. I like well composed images, well designed stuff, and pretty things. I don't usually need that much stimulation like Se doms, but there are times that i just need something like a good song in Stepmania (lots of colors, music and your fingers/body moving in rhythm will all that) or spend a good time in the mirror combing my hair, putting make up and taking my best clothes out of the wardrobe. Also i never get out of the house looking at least decent.
 

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I relate to what you said, generally speaking.


I would associate Se with will. Will power. I can imagine, visualize a factory. But can't build it. Se, when combined with intuition - Ni preferably - is the abillity to realize visions. Se alone can random and purposeless, sadly.

I'm not sensitive to food and comfort at all. I definitely enjoy having a good meal, I am an alcohol conneseir (craft beers, good wine) etc.; so it's not like I can't enjoy sensual pleasures - quite the opposite. But if I have to, I can eat junk food on daily basis, sleep on the floor, can walk days carring a tent (hiking trip) etc. Don't give a shit about how I look.

A desire of influence, of power.
That I don't connect with Se. At least not power in a sense of "obtaining power in social structures, climbing on the social ladder". Se feels more like ability to be who you are, without letting anyone affect you. So, power in a sense of resistance.
I guess here lies the difference between Se/Fe and Se/Fi valuing?


Strong Se feels like power to get what you want, whatever they say. Energetic. Like:
 

Except no Little Pony, lol.

Inferior Se feels dirty. Like there is a (niche) band Spiritual Front; their songs somehow remind me of inferior Se.
Or it feels like a pleasure, pleasure, pleasure.
 


How do I experience Se, as a perception? I usually don't. I have tremendous problems with being "here and now" and perceiving the "power impact" of things. Sometimes, after I experience that weird feeling that everything suddenly makes sense, my mind becomes clear and smooth as the surface of an ocean. Then, for a while, I can perceive everything physically, directly and clearly. Having such direct perception feel almost like a revelation. This happens more often, as I'm getting older. I think I might be a funcking Buddha. Lol. Joking.


-----
also, history show 'vikings' somehow embodies Se in my mind
 

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I suppose that what you're saying would be a healthier manifestation of inferior Se. Unfortunately, most of my experiences with Se have been the unhealthy ones. When I was dealing with depression, I was operating off of Se most of the time, which got me into a lot of trouble (alcohol abuse, unhealthy sexual activity, etc.). At that time, Se overrode my logic and standards ("yes, you can't stand this person and wouldn't let them touch you if you were in your right mind -- but this feels good, so just go with it").

Now that I've moved on from all of that, maybe I should look into healthy expressions of Se. I definitely understand what you're saying in regards to enjoying the "finer things in life". I think that people have this misconception about Ns and the way that they value the material world. I don't value material things in of themselves, per-se, but I truly appreciate beauty and good aesthetics when I see them. That's probably tied to the INxJ idealism more than anything else.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I suppose that what you're saying would be a healthier manifestation of inferior Se. Unfortunately, most of my experiences with Se have been the unhealthy ones. When I was dealing with depression, I was operating off of Se most of the time, which got me into a lot of trouble (alcohol abuse, unhealthy sexual activity, etc.). At that time, Se overrode my logic and standards ("yes, you can't stand this person and wouldn't let them touch you if you were in your right mind -- but this feels good, so just go with it").

Now that I've moved on from all of that, maybe I should look into healthy expressions of Se. I definitely understand what you're saying in regards to enjoying the "finer things in life". I think that people have this misconception about Ns and the way that they value the material world. I don't value material things in of themselves, per-se, but I truly appreciate beauty and good aesthetics when I see them. That's probably tied to the INxJ idealism more than anything else.
This is indeed why I'm so curious about other INJs perspective on inferior Se.
For me, the unhealthy manifestations of inferior Se, are passivity and inability to act (indecisiveness, being stuck in an unfulfilled ideal, being to detached from reality). Those kind of things.

I've seen those posts who tells that inferior Se is like you said "a need for an overload of sensory activities, like eating sex drugs blabla".
But no, this is not how I see people acting understress. "On the grip", it's just like my Fe shutdown. I'm starting to be very cold and detached, and I stop being and talking to people. I isolate myself and that's all.

Yeah, you could tell again that I'm ENFJ, and that's one of the reasons I thought I was one for a long time.

I've never felt the desire of having intense sensory pleasure like drugs and unhealthy sexual activity, even when I was depressed.

Anyway thanks for the input, I hope that I will have more answers (and I hope that I will not turn into an ENFJ lol).
 

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What does dual-seeking Se mean? I'm not too familiar with socionics.

In achieving things for the future, if I don't have a long term goal for something I'll become depressed and feel very lost in life. I need to work towards something worthwhile, whether it be completing an education, finishing a book or playing through a video game.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
What does dual-seeking Se mean? I'm not too familiar with socionics.
A Dual-seeking function is the inferior function of MBTI. It is called Dual-seeking because you cannot fulfill it alone, and you need a duality relationship for it to become effective.

In achieving things for the future, if I don't have a long term goal for something I'll become depressed and feel very lost in life. I need to work towards something worthwhile, whether it be completing an education, finishing a book or playing through a video game.
Same here. It's horrible to be lost, and without a plan for the future.
 

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A Dual-seeking function is the inferior function of MBTI. It is called Dual-seeking because you cannot fulfill it alone, and you need a duality relationship for it to become effective.
Duality relationship as in relationship with a partner (INTp-ESFp in my case)?

The explanations are much appreciated btw. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Duality relationship as in relationship with a partner (INTp-ESFp in my case)?

The explanations are much appreciated btw. :)
Yeah, this is how it works :



(I know, my Paint skill is amazing)

If you have the luck to meet an ESFP that has the same goal and interests as you, you are going to be able to cover up your mutual weaknesses. Because this ESFP will be good where you are bad (Se and Fi), and you will be good where he's bad (Ni and Te).
Because the functions in the super-id block can't work at their full potential without help. It sound wonderfull, isn't it?

Source, and more information here.
 

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Yeah, this is how it works :



(I know, my Paint skill is amazing)

If you have the luck to meet an ESFP that has the same goal and interests as you, you are going to be able to cover up your mutual weaknesses. Because this ESFP will be good where you are bad (Se and Fi), and you will be good where he's bad (Ni and Te).
Because the functions in the super-id block can't work at their full potential without help. It sound wonderfull, isn't it?

Source, and more information here.
Feel honored that you would draw something for me, thanks. ^^

It does make sense. Being on the same page and having similar goals, dreams and values in a relationship is incredibly important, if you just have that I see how balancing eachother completely like this would be the ultimate match. It would take alot of effort, understanding, maturity and patience from both sides though, I image, being so different people and all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Feel honored that you would draw something for me, thanks. ^^

It does make sense. Being on the same page and having similar goals, dreams and values in a relationship is incredibly important, if you just have that I see how balancing eachother completely like this would be the ultimate match. It would take alot of effort, understanding, maturity and patience from both sides though, I image, being so different people and all.
Yeah exactly, because your dual is like your polar opposite. It's hard to get along with someone who's totally different. But the more you put effort in the relationship, the more you see that you both are two different faces of the same coin.
I won't lie, I have a hard time believing that I could be friend with an ESTP. But I guess that it's possible if he/she's working on the same project or goal. There is also a duality with the DCNH subtype that will be important in a duality relationship, but well I'll be very out of subject if I talk about it!
 

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Sorry about derailing a bit, but to get us back on track I could tell you of something I think is a manifestation of inferior Se. Sometimes I'll have these spending fits on myself. Afterwards I probably regret it a bit, wasting the money, but I'm usually able to justify it as a reward for my hard work in some way, or that I needed to feel good in that moment and it was worth the sensation.

Another way Se manifests itself in me is how I constantly forget where I put things around me, or what it was that I was supposed to be doing. Why did I go into this room again... I'll go back to where I was before, then I'll remember it again. I'm very absent-minded. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
*Trying to get more Ni dominants input*

I think that this music is very representative of inferior Se (and Ni dom in general).


The heartbeat, the conscious of time. Our time is limited and we are very aware of it. And then this melancholic violin. Action is tragic, because it's hard for us to change things. We don't have the choice, we have to go with the flow, and it's hard to take control on it.

We are drowning, drowning in the water. There is a feeling of emptiness, like if we were stuck in a hole. In this darkness, we try to see the sky, and we can see the daylight through this darkness.

The global feeling is : being powerless.
 
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