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So my ENTP ex and I have recently gotten back together. During the time we were apart, he had been seeing another girl. It wouldn't be such a deal if he hadn't lied about it. I had been seeing a guy when he and I got back together, but I told him about it before anything got too serious. I thought it was only fair to let him know. I didn't find out about this girl until we were well into our relationship again, when he got his lies mixed up. I noticed he told me contrary things and only then would he come clean. Then he lied about the extent at which they were involved, saying they only kissed, when I later found out she had slept over at his house at least on 4 occasions. He said he lied because he was scared to hurt my feelings. But when you lie to me, you don't respect me. And I was especially offended after I had mustered the energy to tell him about my ventures. He had every fair oppurtunity to let me know. Not only all this, but the last time I went to his family's house for dinner, one of his cousins confused me with this other girl. So they were apparently "serious" enough for her to meet his familly.

I know I sound so cynical right now, but I'm really bothered by his dishonesty with the whole thing. He even lied about going over to a friend's house where she was. Things with them ended by her decision, not his. This, in combination with his behavior, leads me to believe he'd still be with her if the choice were his. I can't tell if I'm just his fall back or if I'm just overanalyzing everything to the point that I'm making myself miserable. I know the problem isn't completely him, I have a lot of obvious insecurities. But I need to know where I should draw the line. I want things to work with him, but I can't love someone I can't trust. He seems to think I should just believe what he tells me, but his promises are hollow and I keep finding things out about this girl from other places than from his mouth.

I think we broke up this morning because I told him that I'll always feel second-best and because of that, I'll never be fully happy. Therefore, he'll never be happy. He accepted this rather quickly. I have a tendency to jump to the "break-up" option when things get rocky, and I'm aware of this. But the guilt I feel for being so jealous of this girl is causing me to believe I'm wasting his time. A relationship won't work without trust, and I just don't have it for him.

I don't know exactly what I'm looking for in a response. Someone to tell me what's up with me? Someone to enlighten me to this ENTP? I just need to hear reason outside of my own head. Any experience, comments, or advice will be appreciated.

You don't have to be nice if you think I just need to getthefuckoverit.
Sometimes if that's what I need to do, that's how I need to hear it.
:/
 

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I have an INFP friend (female) who was dating an ENTP. The exact same story. He lied constantly "to not hurt her feelings." She would confront him about it and he would make up shit. He then ignored her calls for a month. She would text him and call him and leave voicemails. He finally got back to her and wanted to pick things up from where they left off. After he had been sleeping with his ex the entire time. I do not trust ENTP's now, although he's the first I've ever met.
 

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If you have made it clear to him, several times, that lying to save hurt feelings hurts your feelings more than if he was straightforward and honest, and he still can't bring himself to tell the truth, then there is a huge trust issue that will never go away. You may be able to make it work, but this will always be in the background. Worse than the actual feelings from whatever he ends up lying about, you will feel disrespected each and every time he does it. I would give it up now or resign yourself to having to accept being hurt repeatedly. I'm quite sure you won't be able to change his behaviour so your only option, if you want to keep things going, is to change your own perspective on the issue. It can be done, but do you want to do it? Are you disrespecting your own self by doing that?
 

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Based just on your post I'm hesitant to give any clear advice, but I have a feeling that in between the lines of your post, you say that your gut feeling is to end the relationship. I may not be right about your gut feeling, but never the less - as kateykinz says; the trust issue will always be there.

Additionally, it is kind of disturbing that ertertwert has seen the same behaviour in another ENTP. Of course there are differences from person to person - not every ENTP is a liar - but maybe this is a common issue for unhealthy ENTPs? I'm threading on thin ice here...

Try to imagine yourself one or two years ahead - how do you perceive the image of you and him together? Happy couple or two strangers in the same room? Will you ever really trust him, deep down in your heart, or will there always be this nagging feeling?

I don't know your age, but I assume you are pretty young. You may not be thinking about spending the rest of your life with this guy, but the longer you stay with him, the more this relationship will affect your life (and forthcoming relationships, for that matter).

Hmmm, I think I will give you clear advice after all: You deserve better.
In the end though, only you can decide.
 
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I agree totally on what kateykinz said. Those are really important things.

Also, do you feel that you have thought through your own reason for wanting to stay with him?

And I don't think that you sound cynical, rather very reasoned, despite being hurt.

You deserve someone you can trust! Let that be the measure, or you'll regret yourself.
 

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Heh, ENTPs are called opportunistic for a reason. Whatever good opportunity an ENTP sees, he or she will jump on it. In matters of heart you can see them moving rather quickly from person to person. This is not just ENTPs by the way, but all ExxPs seem to work this way. Their emotions are quick to attach, quick to detach. Their mindset does not yield to changing themselves internally if relationship runs into trouble. Rather they are the masters of changing the outside. They juggle their environment and people around them. If you try to catch and pin down an ENTP he or she will behave sort of like a squid - eject a cloud of smoke around it to confuse you: "I lied to you to not hurt your feelings". They want maximum freedom in their environment and come equipped with good verbal skills, which give them superior ability to just plain 'bullshit' other people.

My ENTP ex was same way. I remember we were completing questionnaires over OKCupid and there was a question there that asked "if relationship is turning sour what is your attitude towards it a) that it isn't meant to be and better move on b) that you and your partner should work on it. He picked A, I picked B, and at that time it slightly bothered me but I didn't give it much consideration. Then we ran into some problems and then indeed this is what happened - he took off. He named several things that he wasn't happy about and I asked him why didn't you tell me this in course of relationship. And he answered "because I didn't want to hurt your feelings". Notice the pattern. I was courted by another ENTP. Turn out he dropped his girlfriend the same week to go after me. I turned him down and in a month he had a new girlfriend that he was trying to show off. It was literally that fast.

But there are a couple hundred million ENTPs walking on this planet and they aren't all same. Remember that ENTPs want maximum variety and chaos in their lives and this means they will test other people's boundaries and even break laws to see what they can get away with. My ex was very good about holding to certain boundaries and not crossing them, such as cheating on me. I did have to stop him a few times from cheating on eBay. That boundary apparently did not exist for him. For your guy it sounds like cheating and lying to you is a boundary he is willing to cross. He was holding on to you and testing waters in another direction. Waters did not prove to be warm so he came back to you. In any case if I was in your situation I'd break up with him too.
 

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He lies to you about seriouse matters when you have gone out of your way to be truthful about the same things?

Even when found out, he still does not tell the entire truth?

That, is relationship pioson.

You are right not to trust him, and I can't see this going anywhere pretty. If he lies about his ex, what else might he lie about, suposedly to avoide hurting you? I mean, how sweet and generouse of him to decive you about him and his activities, over a prolonged period, that you might not aprove of. This lack of aproval might cause you upset, and maybe even to be mean to him...can't be having that, can we? No, if he lies, everyone is happy! Right? up until the lies all come out, as they inevitably will...*some EXXPs are infuriating, sigh*

My feeling from your post is, you know that breaking up is probably the best thing for you, the sensible thing, but you still really care about him...so much so, you wonder what is worse, the future pain of where things will go, or the pain now of being without him.

I've been there, with my ESTP ex, the ENTPs cosine if you will, it wasn't to do with a girl but he constantly lied to me, even about really stupid things you wouldn't even consider. It took me ages to realise the extent of it, or that he was a very self deluded person. I'd say, "I can't belive you did X" and he'd say "No I didn't, I'm not that sort of person." I'd have to explain that yes, he did do it step by step, before it clicked, and he got sulky. Oddly, I don't think he meant any harm, he was just more conserned with me being anoyed at him and with his own needs than my wellbeing. It was unforgivable from a relationship stand piont, but not malicouse. I still talk to him and consider him a friend, but from a distance. I'm fond of him, but I wont put up with his shit.

Dumping him was one of the best things I ever did. It was really heart wrentching at first, even though I'd stopped loving him, but after two days...I sudenly realised, my life was so much easier and drama free, more so than I imagined possible. I was walking on air. Ok, I had to put up with pathetic "I am crying in the woods missing you," messages, which really meant, "I am crying in the woods missing the things you did for me, and I suspect it will be hard to find someone else who will now I have screwed up my life." But, I didn't give a damn, and told him so...I directed him to a friend to cry it all out and bitch about me too, though, cos unfortunatly I'm kinda soft...(darn you, Fe!)
 

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some thoughts:

1) go with your gut. your gut is ALWAYS right.

2) if he lied to you several times, this implies a lack of trust... and that's usually shaky ground in relationship world. so you are right to question where your relationship stands. it's up to the two of you to see if you want to continue.

3) my quick read of your post doesn't suggest any deal-breakers in this situation. he didn't cheat on you. he lied to you to spare your feelings (which implies he actually cares about your feelings to begin with). im not seeing any huge red flags with this situation, but like i said before - you need to go with your gut in determining what you do next.

good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
If you have made it clear to him, several times, that lying to save hurt feelings hurts your feelings more than if he was straightforward and honest, and he still can't bring himself to tell the truth, then there is a huge trust issue that will never go away. You may be able to make it work, but this will always be in the background. Worse than the actual feelings from whatever he ends up lying about, you will feel disrespected each and every time he does it. I would give it up now or resign yourself to having to accept being hurt repeatedly. I'm quite sure you won't be able to change his behaviour so your only option, if you want to keep things going, is to change your own perspective on the issue. It can be done, but do you want to do it? Are you disrespecting your own self by doing that?
It depends on whether this girl really means nothing to him like he says,
or if she means more than he's letting on like I suspect.
Either way, you're right. There is a big trust issue.
I'm constantly wondering what I don't know about.
It's rather draining.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Based just on your post I'm hesitant to give any clear advice, but I have a feeling that in between the lines of your post, you say that your gut feeling is to end the relationship. I may not be right about your gut feeling, but never the less - as kateykinz says; the trust issue will always be there.

Additionally, it is kind of disturbing that ertertwert has seen the same behaviour in another ENTP. Of course there are differences from person to person - not every ENTP is a liar - but maybe this is a common issue for unhealthy ENTPs? I'm threading on thin ice here...

Try to imagine yourself one or two years ahead - how do you perceive the image of you and him together? Happy couple or two strangers in the same room? Will you ever really trust him, deep down in your heart, or will there always be this nagging feeling?

I don't know your age, but I assume you are pretty young. You may not be thinking about spending the rest of your life with this guy, but the longer you stay with him, the more this relationship will affect your life (and forthcoming relationships, for that matter).

Hmmm, I think I will give you clear advice after all: You deserve better.
In the end though, only you can decide.
Thank you. Your post gave me a lot to think about.
I believe it may be possible to trust him one day, but it will take a lot of work on both our parts.
If his behavior continues the way it has been, I think the nagging feeling will always linger in the air.
A lot of my cognitive dissonance comes from the things I will never know for sure.
But you're right, I'm fairly young (just past two decades).
So if I already can't trust him at this point,
I do have a lot of time to get on with my life.

Not to discount how much I truly care about this person.
I would change every fiber of my being for them;
as long as it was for a greater good and fit into my value system.
-which I don't find unreasonable.
Changing yourself is how you become a better person.
But if I don't think they'd do the same for me,
I'm hesitant to try such a feat.

And every one is right about the gut feeling.
I always regret not going with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I agree totally on what kateykinz said. Those are really important things.

Also, do you feel that you have thought through your own reason for wanting to stay with him?

And I don't think that you sound cynical, rather very reasoned, despite being hurt.

You deserve someone you can trust! Let that be the measure, or you'll regret yourself.
He's just easily my favorite person to ever lie to me.
I have such a high respect for him and he makes me grow as a person
on levels other people haven't been able to touch.
We were together about a year and a half before we broke up.
Then we went over 3 months before rekindling.

But I do deserve the same respect I give my significant other,
as well as the honesty.
I will regret myself if I don't abide by that.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
My feeling from your post is, you know that breaking up is probably the best thing for you, the sensible thing, but you still really care about him...so much so, you wonder what is worse, the future pain of where things will go, or the pain now of being without him.
Hit the nail on the head.
And it sounds like we have a lot in common.
Mixed feelings are a bitch.
But I believe you when you say I'll feel better once all is said and done.
I got on without him before,
I'm sure (I hope) I can do it again.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
some thoughts:

1) go with your gut. your gut is ALWAYS right.

2) if he lied to you several times, this implies a lack of trust... and that's usually shaky ground in relationship world. so you are right to question where your relationship stands. it's up to the two of you to see if you want to continue.

3) my quick read of your post doesn't suggest any deal-breakers in this situation. he didn't cheat on you. he lied to you to spare your feelings (which implies he actually cares about your feelings to begin with). im not seeing any huge red flags with this situation, but like i said before - you need to go with your gut in determining what you do next.

good luck!
This is another conundrum I was having!
Sensibly, I know he hasn't necessarily caused any red flags just yet,
but I think I'm just sensing the flags coming and trying to get out of the line of fire.
But then again, since nothing's happened yet, I'm still hesitant to break things off,
just in case I'm wrong. (which I'm probably not).
I'm very attached to him, so it seems like a lot to give up just based on a gut feeling.
But then again, past experience makes me always always always regret not listening to that inner voice.
Thanks for the input. It got a train of thought going.
Everyone in the post did, for that matter.
Thankyouthankyou.
 

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This is another conundrum I was having!
Sensibly, I know he hasn't necessarily caused any red flags just yet,
but I think I'm just sensing the flags coming and trying to get out of the line of fire.
But then again, since nothing's happened yet, I'm still hesitant to break things off,
just in case I'm wrong. (which I'm probably not).
I'm very attached to him, so it seems like a lot to give up just based on a gut feeling.
But then again, past experience makes me always always always regret not listening to that inner voice.
Thanks for the input. It got a train of thought going.
Everyone in the post did, for that matter.
Thankyouthankyou.
Part of me want's to say: break up with him, it will all lead to pain and awfulness. Run, danger!

Another part, though is saying: Even though your gut is probably right, and that will be the conclusion, your heart might not accept it. Sometimes in life you have to go through the motions, even if you know what the result is likly to be.

I learnt that with my ex, I knew well in advance it wasn't going to work out (a few months), and I prepaired myself for it. I did my best to look out for myself, set boundries and consiquences, and followed through, I tried to be realistic about what was going to happen without creative a self fulfilling prophesy. I let go when I was ready, I needed the hurt to let go and if I let go too early I'd have always wondered about how it might have gone.

You can't use your excellent instincts to skip to the end of a situation or issue sometimes, especially with people. Sometimes they need to go through it with you, as they wont always understand or belive you when you explain where things are headed. I found this with argueing with my ex, which was hard at first, as I could see the conclusions, so why bother with the nasty part? We could just talk it through. I found we needed to express the negative emotions which arose anyway, even though we knew we'd end up agreeing.

I think you already know what you are going to do, but you needed reasurence, as it is a difficult issue.
 

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He's just easily my favorite person to ever lie to me.
I have such a high respect for him and he makes me grow as a person
on levels other people haven't been able to touch.
I kept friends with my ENTP ex for a while. He moved to another country though so we fell out of contact then. Thing is that you can still enjoy each other's company while not being romantically involved. But if the level of trust is not there, how can you have a serious relationship? My ex was constantly building trust between us and reinforcing that I am the only one for him. I heard all about his past girlfriends, we discussed people that both of us knew very openly, I saw his facebook and had access to several of his accounts. My INFJ intuition told me I could fully trust him and I was right, he never betrayed me. Your bf (well ex-bf now) is bent on destroying the trust between you, as if he doesn't understand what implication it has. Does he consider how it makes you feel before he does all these things? Does he consider how betrayed you will feel before he lies to you? No he is only doing what he wants to do. Your intuition is poking and prodding you about it because something is indeed off.
 

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I re-read your OP and your answers, and I don't find any mentioning of any trust issue between you before breaking up 3 months ago. If this is so, then it seems clearly possible to me that his intent never was to lie to you or to let you down, but that the situation is very uncomfortable for him as well. I think you could very well have a good ground to build on to overcome this issue, and get back together again, if that is what both of you want. While I do think it is crucial that you know where to draw the line, I also think that it could be possible for the two of you to work together in overcoming the issues, if he is ready to put in some effort and commitment.

In communicating with him, understand that he will not always hear the same things from you that you intend to say, and that most introverts never actually say things as clearly as we think we do. If you are imagining things that are not true, because you are afraid to be hurt again, talking about it is the only way forward to creating trust between you. I do very much hope that he is also ready to commit to that. And be prepared for it to take time.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I re-read your OP and your answers, and I don't find any mentioning of any trust issue between you before breaking up 3 months ago. If this is so, then it seems clearly possible to me that his intent never was to lie to you or to let you down, but that the situation is very uncomfortable for him as well. I think you could very well have a good ground to build on to overcome this issue, and get back together again, if that is what both of you want. While I do think it is crucial that you know where to draw the line, I also think that it could be possible for the two of you to work together in overcoming the issues, if he is ready to put in some effort and commitment.

In communicating with him, understand that he will not always hear the same things from you that you intend to say, and that most introverts never actually say things as clearly as we think we do. If you are imagining things that are not true, because you are afraid to be hurt again, talking about it is the only way forward to creating trust between you. I do very much hope that he is also ready to commit to that. And be prepared for it to take time.
That's fantastic advice. Thank you so much.
It sounds more like where he may be coming from.
When we last talked about it, he said that if I think it can work, then he thinks it can.
But he understands that I seem to be the one that needs to make that decision.
He also seems to make it clear that he doesn't know what to do to help.
However, when I try to give him a tip, he does the opposite.
Perhaps this is a communication issue on my part.
(I honestly wouldn't be surprised. I'm rather vague sometimes.)
I'll keep your words in mind next time we're discussing this.
I do want to build something solid and stable with this person,
so I'm willing to put in this effort.
The only thing I worry about is him giving up when the results aren't immediate.
Which, if he does, sobeit.
At least I tried for my own peace of mind.
 

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However, when I try to give him a tip, he does the opposite.
Perhaps this is a communication issue on my part.
(I honestly wouldn't be surprised. I'm rather vague sometimes.)
Another reason is that his competitive drive is kicking in. ENTPs can be quite competitive, why do you think it says in their profile that they may like to argue?

I remember one day I was walking with my ex and he kept walking about a step ahead of me. I told him to slow down and walk next to me, as it was annoying to try to talk to him when he's a bit ahead of me all the time. He answered "You just walk too slow, you should pick up pace". Like it is my problem. So then I smiled and told him "I changed my mind, do walk a step ahead of me, actually walking two steps would be ideal, I really want you to try and walk two steps ahead." He laughed and slowed down.

Thing is that guys are more competitive than girls, on average, and sometimes they try to bring that competitive element into the relationship with you. They can do the opposite of what you asked or suggested just to one-up you. They can hurt your feelings. Most of the time they are not very aware of it, but it doesn't excuse them for it and sometimes it can get really out of hand. So if he is acting too competitively you should call his attention to it - that you are not the person he should be trying to one-up. ENTPs in addition to this also have issues with being controlled. They behave sometimes a bit like kids trying to stand up to a controlling parent, so your mild suggestion may sound like an order to him, like you know better, so then he does the opposite to resist the perceived control.
 

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I am curious as of how you two got back together?
 
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