INFJ + Enneagram 8
To anyone out there who is well versed in both MBTI and Enneagram...
I know that this is a really rare combination, but what would a person who is both INFJ and Enneagram 8 (specifically sx subtype) be like?
I've read that Enneagram 8 will increase Extroversion, and I've also read that sx subtype will also increase Extroversion, while decreasing Judging.
The reason I ask about this combination is that I've consistently scored slightly Extrovert, highly iNtuitive, moderately Feeling, and slightly Judging. My iNtuition preferences have always been higher than my Feeling preferences, which should be the other way around for an ENFJ (since they are Fe > Ni), and if I was an ENFJ 8 sx, shouldn't my Extroversion scores be very pronounced rather than slight?
I've looked into the Enneagram for a few months now, and am quite certain I'm an 8, just a 'less in your face' 8. When I'm at my best, I'm a lot like a 2. When I start to stress I become a lot like a 5. When I get unhealthy, I get really angry just like an 8. No doubts here. I'm also very much an sx subtype. My most important motivation is finding a soul mate, and making intimate bonds with people. Always has been, even when I was a young child.
I've watched the INFJ and ENFJ personal videos, and I tend to have more in common with the body language, facial expressions, and mannerisms of the INFJs than the ENFJs. I've also noticed that my writing style and thought process while writing seems more like the INFJs than the ENFJs. I go into more detail, and seem to dwell on how things work more than the ENFJs.
The descriptions I've read of INFJs and ENFJs both apply to me equally well, especially depending on the author, so I've long had a lot of confusion here. Could it be that I'm an INFJ Enneagram 8 that is causing this sense of being a hybrid between these two types... and has been throwing off my ability to accurately fit the descriptions of either?
Thanks for your help.
I know that this is a really rare combination, but what would a person who is both INFJ and Enneagram 8 (specifically sx subtype) be like?
I've read that Enneagram 8 will increase Extroversion, and I've also read that sx subtype will also increase Extroversion, while decreasing Judging.
The reason I ask about this combination is that I've consistently scored slightly Extrovert, highly iNtuitive, moderately Feeling, and slightly Judging. My iNtuition preferences have always been higher than my Feeling preferences, which should be the other way around for an ENFJ (since they are Fe > Ni), and if I was an ENFJ 8 sx, shouldn't my Extroversion scores be very pronounced rather than slight?
I've looked into the Enneagram for a few months now, and am quite certain I'm an 8, just a 'less in your face' 8. When I'm at my best, I'm a lot like a 2. When I start to stress I become a lot like a 5. When I get unhealthy, I get really angry just like an 8. No doubts here. I'm also very much an sx subtype. My most important motivation is finding a soul mate, and making intimate bonds with people. Always has been, even when I was a young child.
I've watched the INFJ and ENFJ personal videos, and I tend to have more in common with the body language, facial expressions, and mannerisms of the INFJs than the ENFJs. I've also noticed that my writing style and thought process while writing seems more like the INFJs than the ENFJs. I go into more detail, and seem to dwell on how things work more than the ENFJs.
The descriptions I've read of INFJs and ENFJs both apply to me equally well, especially depending on the author, so I've long had a lot of confusion here. Could it be that I'm an INFJ Enneagram 8 that is causing this sense of being a hybrid between these two types... and has been throwing off my ability to accurately fit the descriptions of either?
Thanks for your help.
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Type 8 World View: The world is an unjust place. I am strong and I defend the innocent.
Type 8 Basic Desire: to be self-reliant
Stripped to its basic roots, type 8 is very compatible with INFJ's Protector role, and with INFJ's desire to be independant while still wanting to help other people.
So it's possible. I'm a 9w8 sx/so and I feel that I am much more extraverted than many of the INFJs that I have come across, to the point when I'm in my most extraverted phases I have tested as ENFJ, so if you are an 8w9 that 8 energy is going to be much more apparent and make you seem more extraverted than you actually are.
I had a very happy and secure childhood and thus I was very 8-ish as a kid - the healthy, magnanimous, protective and quiet kind of 8. When puberty came it chipped away at my confidence and my 8 side went into hiding a bit. When I met my husband, a sensitive ISFJ, I had to tone down my eight-ish tendencies even more, because he felt a bit threatened by it. Well, I guess he liked the good, natural, honest, protective side, but didn't like the jealous, aggressive, sweary, bossy, uncouth side. I can understand that!
My 8 wing still comes out with a vengeance when I am comfortable within a group, when I am fighting on behalf of someone who is weak and being picked on by someone more powerful, when I am fighting against someone who I feel is abusing their power and when I am drunk!
There is nothing that I like better than empowering people to overcome their insecurities to become the person that they really want to be. I don't do it to get anything back in return. aside from maybe some respect, I do it because I like to see people happy and free to explore their potentials. I have always shied away from making this a career though, as being a nine I have a problem with boundaries and I worry that I will take on people's problems and be trapped in feeling responsible for them, when really they need to be responsible for themselves. I don't want people to be dependant on me. I want to be free to be who I am.
I think you should study the functions more to figure out if you are INFJ or ENFJ. Trying to figure out if you are Fe or Ni dominant might be tricky if you use both equally so forget them for a minute...look to your tertiary and inferior functions for clues. INFJ's have Ti as tertiary, Se as inferior, while ENFJs have Se as tertiary and Ti as inferior. Do you think you rely on Ti or Se as your familiar backup function? Or which of Ti or Se do you feel that you are particularly weak in and project onto other people as qualities that you desire?
Edit: and try not to use your cognitive function scores to assess that, read the descriptions of the functions and really get a feel for what they are and what feels natural to you. As someone very helpfully pointed out to me, and I will rephrase their metaphor in my own words - just because you use a sword often doesn't mean you are a swordsman - even though you might have practiced hard with it throughout the years and use it every hour of the day, it may not necessarily ever feel like a natural talent. You might be naturally wonderful at using a crossbow, but find it boring because it is too easy for you, or not very useful in the hand-to-hand combat that you more often find yourself in, so therefore you kind of forget on a day to day basis that you are a natural crossbowman. Ya dig?
Type 8 Basic Desire: to be self-reliant
Stripped to its basic roots, type 8 is very compatible with INFJ's Protector role, and with INFJ's desire to be independant while still wanting to help other people.
So it's possible. I'm a 9w8 sx/so and I feel that I am much more extraverted than many of the INFJs that I have come across, to the point when I'm in my most extraverted phases I have tested as ENFJ, so if you are an 8w9 that 8 energy is going to be much more apparent and make you seem more extraverted than you actually are.
I had a very happy and secure childhood and thus I was very 8-ish as a kid - the healthy, magnanimous, protective and quiet kind of 8. When puberty came it chipped away at my confidence and my 8 side went into hiding a bit. When I met my husband, a sensitive ISFJ, I had to tone down my eight-ish tendencies even more, because he felt a bit threatened by it. Well, I guess he liked the good, natural, honest, protective side, but didn't like the jealous, aggressive, sweary, bossy, uncouth side. I can understand that!
My 8 wing still comes out with a vengeance when I am comfortable within a group, when I am fighting on behalf of someone who is weak and being picked on by someone more powerful, when I am fighting against someone who I feel is abusing their power and when I am drunk!
There is nothing that I like better than empowering people to overcome their insecurities to become the person that they really want to be. I don't do it to get anything back in return. aside from maybe some respect, I do it because I like to see people happy and free to explore their potentials. I have always shied away from making this a career though, as being a nine I have a problem with boundaries and I worry that I will take on people's problems and be trapped in feeling responsible for them, when really they need to be responsible for themselves. I don't want people to be dependant on me. I want to be free to be who I am.
I think you should study the functions more to figure out if you are INFJ or ENFJ. Trying to figure out if you are Fe or Ni dominant might be tricky if you use both equally so forget them for a minute...look to your tertiary and inferior functions for clues. INFJ's have Ti as tertiary, Se as inferior, while ENFJs have Se as tertiary and Ti as inferior. Do you think you rely on Ti or Se as your familiar backup function? Or which of Ti or Se do you feel that you are particularly weak in and project onto other people as qualities that you desire?
Edit: and try not to use your cognitive function scores to assess that, read the descriptions of the functions and really get a feel for what they are and what feels natural to you. As someone very helpfully pointed out to me, and I will rephrase their metaphor in my own words - just because you use a sword often doesn't mean you are a swordsman - even though you might have practiced hard with it throughout the years and use it every hour of the day, it may not necessarily ever feel like a natural talent. You might be naturally wonderful at using a crossbow, but find it boring because it is too easy for you, or not very useful in the hand-to-hand combat that you more often find yourself in, so therefore you kind of forget on a day to day basis that you are a natural crossbowman. Ya dig?
I like enneagram descriptions on this website: Enneagram Personality Type 8: The Leader
From this description I am not picking up any parts that would make you particularly more extraverted, social, or rely more on your extraverted feeling to go about life. Introverts can fit this description as well. Being a leader does not mean you have to be social. I guess you'll just have to think what have had the more pull on you in this life - the introverted intuition or the extraverted feeling?
From this description I am not picking up any parts that would make you particularly more extraverted, social, or rely more on your extraverted feeling to go about life. Introverts can fit this description as well. Being a leader does not mean you have to be social. I guess you'll just have to think what have had the more pull on you in this life - the introverted intuition or the extraverted feeling?
That last sentence is a very good description of me actually.
I feel like I am usually deep within my own mind, and I have to be drawn out by circumstances. I'll even seek out the circumstances that can draw me out when I feel like I've been in my own mind too long. I can be very expressive and opinionated, and exert a lot of outward energy, which are traits that have kept me from thinking that I'm an INFJ. Now that you put it that way, it could easily be the 8 side that amplifies those.
"the jealous, aggressive, sweary, bossy, uncouth side"... Oh wow, that hits the nail on the head. This is the exact part of myself that my idealism is frequently trying to suppress... and also one of the main reasons I've assumed I wasn't an INFJ. So few of them have it.
I looked at type 9w8 quite a bit for myself, and only realized I wasn't a 9 when I dug deeper into 9s motivations and unhealthy reactions. They are more prone to withdraw mentally and pull away from their emotions as a reaction to stress. I reflexively go to anger and assertion against my stresses, especially if they are rooted in injustice - I think I have a double dose of indignation against injustice being an NF idealist. While I very much want peace and harmony for everyone, I have to catch myself in order to stay calm and withdraw or else I'll reflexively become part of the problem.
However, I have to have a personal investment in someone before I have the instinct to help them reach their potential, but once that instinct is tripped, I'm very attuned to their potential and how to help them reach it. This is an introverted level of interaction for me. It has to be one on one and intimate... takes a lot of thought and focus even though it's something I do naturally, especially on internet forums when people have questions and concerns about figuring themselves out.
I once read a description of the difference between tertiary and inferior Se, and the inferior definitely described me better. I also lose respect for people who have no interest in understanding how things work at least on a base level... which would imply that I'm Ti over Se.
Interesting. It seems that the only factors throwing me off of my original INFJ assessment are my type 8 traits. As you mentioned, the 'good side' of type 8 very much align with INFJ or ENFJ descriptions. However, the 'bad side' of type 8 doesn't line up with the standard INFJ descriptions much at all.
Also, I agree about the function scores. That test measures usage, not preference. It would be foolish to assume that usage scores equate to preferences. Also, I test INFJ about half the time and ENFJ close to the other half with the odd INFP, INTJ, or ENFP score thrown in. This is across the range of many tests I've taken. Some have more consistent leanings one way or the other, while some of the tests are clearly affected by my mood or current state of mind.
I think you may have helped me unlock a real mystery within myself with respect to these two systems. I'm going to think about it for a while and see if it lines up.
Thank you very much for your quick and helpful response!
The people who really know me insist that I am an introvert. The people who don't know me well insist that I'm an extrovert. The way you put this makes a lot of sense.
I feel like I am usually deep within my own mind, and I have to be drawn out by circumstances. I'll even seek out the circumstances that can draw me out when I feel like I've been in my own mind too long. I can be very expressive and opinionated, and exert a lot of outward energy, which are traits that have kept me from thinking that I'm an INFJ. Now that you put it that way, it could easily be the 8 side that amplifies those.
I'd read somewhere that 8's usually have abusive childhoods, were bullied, and/or saw a lot of injustice. That's certainly the case for me, though I was always an idealist, so I was quite magnanimous and protective. I was also quieter as a kid (though a bit intense), and grew into my confidence in my 20s. Until then I was constantly focused on ways to make sure I was strong enough to deal with everything life could throw at me and those I cared about... a lot of martial arts, etc.
"the jealous, aggressive, sweary, bossy, uncouth side"... Oh wow, that hits the nail on the head. This is the exact part of myself that my idealism is frequently trying to suppress... and also one of the main reasons I've assumed I wasn't an INFJ. So few of them have it.
This entire paragraph is so dead on, right down to the "when I am drunk" part. I had to stop drinking because I become such a pushy bastard when I do. Got in a lot of fights.
I looked at type 9w8 quite a bit for myself, and only realized I wasn't a 9 when I dug deeper into 9s motivations and unhealthy reactions. They are more prone to withdraw mentally and pull away from their emotions as a reaction to stress. I reflexively go to anger and assertion against my stresses, especially if they are rooted in injustice - I think I have a double dose of indignation against injustice being an NF idealist. While I very much want peace and harmony for everyone, I have to catch myself in order to stay calm and withdraw or else I'll reflexively become part of the problem.
I think I am more inclined to protect people, and then help them reach their potential. For example, if I don't know someone and they need help, I'll give it. I once gave a homeless guy the coat I was wearing. I'm constantly buying people food when they are low on money. I'll help and protect people without thinking about it. This is an extroverted level of interaction for me. I do this sort of thing for strangers if they seem like they want and need it.
However, I have to have a personal investment in someone before I have the instinct to help them reach their potential, but once that instinct is tripped, I'm very attuned to their potential and how to help them reach it. This is an introverted level of interaction for me. It has to be one on one and intimate... takes a lot of thought and focus even though it's something I do naturally, especially on internet forums when people have questions and concerns about figuring themselves out.
I've pondered this very subject for quite a while, and very much agree that a person with well developed dominant and secondary functions will tend to have trouble distinguishing them. I came to the conclusion that Se was my tertiary because of my raunchy bawdy sense of humor, but I'm starting to see that the part of me responsible for that might well be the other side of being an 8 (mentioned above). If that's the case, then it's no contest. I'm much more concerned with how things work (Ti) than taking in my surroundings (Se).
I once read a description of the difference between tertiary and inferior Se, and the inferior definitely described me better. I also lose respect for people who have no interest in understanding how things work at least on a base level... which would imply that I'm Ti over Se.
Interesting. It seems that the only factors throwing me off of my original INFJ assessment are my type 8 traits. As you mentioned, the 'good side' of type 8 very much align with INFJ or ENFJ descriptions. However, the 'bad side' of type 8 doesn't line up with the standard INFJ descriptions much at all.
Hehe... I also do the Edit thing - notoriously. I know it's my Ni coming up with additional points as it has a chance to percolate.
Also, I agree about the function scores. That test measures usage, not preference. It would be foolish to assume that usage scores equate to preferences. Also, I test INFJ about half the time and ENFJ close to the other half with the odd INFP, INTJ, or ENFP score thrown in. This is across the range of many tests I've taken. Some have more consistent leanings one way or the other, while some of the tests are clearly affected by my mood or current state of mind.
I think you may have helped me unlock a real mystery within myself with respect to these two systems. I'm going to think about it for a while and see if it lines up.
Thank you very much for your quick and helpful response!
I'm either 8w9 or 9w8
Your eyes (in your profile pic) remind me a lot of my own. Focused but distant, piercing but kind.
Edit: I only mention it because I see a lot of things in people's eyes, especially types. When people have similar vibes in their eyes, they're almost always similar types, which means you're probably right about being 8w9 or 9w8. You very much look to be an INFJ.
Edit: I only mention it because I see a lot of things in people's eyes, especially types. When people have similar vibes in their eyes, they're almost always similar types, which means you're probably right about being 8w9 or 9w8. You very much look to be an INFJ.
Nobleheart, I believe that personality type testing, of all sorts, are only a learning tool. I, also, believe they should be taken with a grain of salt. I see that you are using your mind with these tools; what does your heart tell you? Maybe by adding them together, one will come closer to the truth.
Hey, I am sometimes very extroverted and I definitly test INFJ! I am an Aries, as well. I am comfortable with this. Who we are is complex. Understanding that there is not always an answer (even though, we search) when we want one (it may come later), is the begining of acceptance of ones' self as they are. I believe that if one accepts things about their self, it becomes easier to find the answers within theirself. I guess that could be called "finding peace." The battle will still be there, but there is no war! Cripes, I don't mean to come off as a know-it-all! I certainly am not! I just firmly believe that one is forever learning & evolving and acceptance of ones' self & others is a key to a stronger healthier being.
Hey, I am sometimes very extroverted and I definitly test INFJ! I am an Aries, as well. I am comfortable with this. Who we are is complex. Understanding that there is not always an answer (even though, we search) when we want one (it may come later), is the begining of acceptance of ones' self as they are. I believe that if one accepts things about their self, it becomes easier to find the answers within theirself. I guess that could be called "finding peace." The battle will still be there, but there is no war! Cripes, I don't mean to come off as a know-it-all! I certainly am not! I just firmly believe that one is forever learning & evolving and acceptance of ones' self & others is a key to a stronger healthier being.
It's fine, Thank you very much. I believe so to. That comment diffidently made my day.
side not: If your confused about your type look at the system descriptions of the functions INFJ, ENFJ. Figure out what thought process you relate to better.
That comment diffidently made my day.side not: If your confused about your type look at the system descriptions of the functions INFJ, ENFJ. Figure out what thought process you relate to better.
I don't have much to comment on this, but I don't get an eight vibe from anyone in this thread. Nobleheart you would have to be the poster child for the most healthy eight in the world if so.
Have you considered being a 2, maybe with a 3 wing?
Have you considered being a 2, maybe with a 3 wing?
Yes, I have. 2 is the other type that comes up a lot on my test results, but when I looked into the health levels of 2's, I saw a lot of behaviors and reactions that I just don't have.
Meanwhile, the behaviors and reactions of 8s are almost identical to my own. I'm constantly reigning myself in, in the interest of protecting people from myself. When pushed, however, I will lock horns with anyone... especially when battling an injustice.
From what I understand, the NFJ types are rarely 8s. This likely explains the difference in vibes since MBTI is based on perspectives and Enneagram is based on motivations.
Meanwhile, the behaviors and reactions of 8s are almost identical to my own. I'm constantly reigning myself in, in the interest of protecting people from myself. When pushed, however, I will lock horns with anyone... especially when battling an injustice.
From what I understand, the NFJ types are rarely 8s. This likely explains the difference in vibes since MBTI is based on perspectives and Enneagram is based on motivations.
I agree with Bob, I see a strong 2, (2w3 in particular) hell, it's nearly obvious.
In conclusion, I simply do not see an 8, I would even question sticking it in your tri-type. The innate outward push seems lacking. Any push I see from you, seems forced.
A really tentative tri-type: 2w3-6w5-9w1
The crutch of a 2, is pride. They love to help everyone, and take pride in being the almighty helper (w3 especially), but 2's hate asking for help. It punches the pride.
An 8 spends little time "locked in their own head", the way you use the expression "I can exert a lot of outward energy" points less and less at an 8. An 8 has a an outward push in about every facet they act in, it's a presence I'm just not seeing in you.
Now this reads as 6ish, to put forward thinking into handling the world; Alongside the praising of the underdog.
Remember that the point of disintegration in a type 2, is type 8. An unhealthy 2, will appear more 8.
6ish, counter-phobic variety.
The bolded reads as a heavy 2w3. I also noticed you seem to start off with the word "protect" but as you actually start flowing with thought, the word "help" comes out. 2ish.
Such a heavy desire on helping people.
In conclusion, I simply do not see an 8, I would even question sticking it in your tri-type. The innate outward push seems lacking. Any push I see from you, seems forced.
A really tentative tri-type: 2w3-6w5-9w1
Scruffy, you're insightful, but wrong.
Now, back on topic, for anyone who is well versed in both MBTI and Enneagram, I would greatly appreciate insights as to how an INFJ would be filtered by Type 8.
Lastly, I deliberately posted this topic in the INFJ forum for feedback from INFJs with MBTI perspectives on the subject of Enneagram because this is a perspective that I am better able to understand. Someone moved it. Please move it back, and do not take it upon yourself to move my threads in the future.
Now, back on topic, for anyone who is well versed in both MBTI and Enneagram, I would greatly appreciate insights as to how an INFJ would be filtered by Type 8.
Lastly, I deliberately posted this topic in the INFJ forum for feedback from INFJs with MBTI perspectives on the subject of Enneagram because this is a perspective that I am better able to understand. Someone moved it. Please move it back, and do not take it upon yourself to move my threads in the future.
If anything, It would be 9w8
common enneagram types of INFJ's are 1, 2, 4, 5, 9 and I relate 8.
common enneagram types of INFJ's are 1, 2, 4, 5, 9 and I relate 8.
I'm a 9w8 too. Can be very heavy on the 8 when I have a specific goal.
Honestly, I don't see the 8 as being too strange for an INFJ. It's mainly about mastering yourself, being independent, and shaping your own destiny. Goal driven and assertive. When under stress, they get reckless, and may not handle their own emotions well. Really, it lines up fairly well.
Honestly, I don't see the 8 as being too strange for an INFJ. It's mainly about mastering yourself, being independent, and shaping your own destiny. Goal driven and assertive. When under stress, they get reckless, and may not handle their own emotions well. Really, it lines up fairly well.
Yes, this is exactly me.
Just because I try to be polite and considerate does not mean I'm a 2. I really admire 2s. I'm just not one. I'm an NFJ, and this is what's confusing some of you. My manner of presentation is throwing you off. A lot of ENFJs are 2s, and INFJs are also commonly 2s. Those of you who are are Enneagram officianados don't seem to be taking much of the cognitive influences into consideration when examining Type. There is a lot of overlap that is confusing you. You're assuming that the traits of the most common MBTI types in an Enneatype are intrinsic. For example, most type 8s are some form of TJ, most often ESTJs, and therefore Te (Extroverted Thinking) traits are therefore part of the Enneagram Type 8 personality. That's just not the case. These two systems are similar but essentially unrelated. The only reason there is commonality between the two systems is that cognitive perspectives flavor development of our motivations and under 'normal' conditions are likely to produce similar outcomes. This doesn't imply that these are the rule.
I seem like a 2 because I'm an NFJ, meaning I have a strong Fe (Extroverted Feeling) rather than Te.
Twos say things like "I get so caught up in caring for others that I forget that I have needs too." I never lose sight of what I want.
Twos do things like "I give love so I can get love." Sure, it's nice when people love me, but I don't help them because I want their love. I help them because it makes me happy. Again, this is my NFJ sensibility.
The reason I started this thread was to help me decide if I'm an ENFJ 8w9 or I'm an INFJ 8w9. This is a question of MBTI type, not Enneagram type. I'm trying to decide if my being an 8 has not slanted my perspective of being an Extrovert.
Now, move the thread back to the INFJ forum.
Thanks. (Again, this is me being an NFJ)
Just because I try to be polite and considerate does not mean I'm a 2. I really admire 2s. I'm just not one. I'm an NFJ, and this is what's confusing some of you. My manner of presentation is throwing you off. A lot of ENFJs are 2s, and INFJs are also commonly 2s. Those of you who are are Enneagram officianados don't seem to be taking much of the cognitive influences into consideration when examining Type. There is a lot of overlap that is confusing you. You're assuming that the traits of the most common MBTI types in an Enneatype are intrinsic. For example, most type 8s are some form of TJ, most often ESTJs, and therefore Te (Extroverted Thinking) traits are therefore part of the Enneagram Type 8 personality. That's just not the case. These two systems are similar but essentially unrelated. The only reason there is commonality between the two systems is that cognitive perspectives flavor development of our motivations and under 'normal' conditions are likely to produce similar outcomes. This doesn't imply that these are the rule.
I seem like a 2 because I'm an NFJ, meaning I have a strong Fe (Extroverted Feeling) rather than Te.
Twos say things like "I get so caught up in caring for others that I forget that I have needs too." I never lose sight of what I want.
Twos do things like "I give love so I can get love." Sure, it's nice when people love me, but I don't help them because I want their love. I help them because it makes me happy. Again, this is my NFJ sensibility.
The reason I started this thread was to help me decide if I'm an ENFJ 8w9 or I'm an INFJ 8w9. This is a question of MBTI type, not Enneagram type. I'm trying to decide if my being an 8 has not slanted my perspective of being an Extrovert.
Now, move the thread back to the INFJ forum.
Thanks. (Again, this is me being an NFJ)
Scruffy and screamofconciousness are both well versed with MBTI and Enneagram. Scream is an INFJ to boot. I am only a sad little MBTI expert so I won't make anymore comments than I already have.
As to Scruffy's comment, nice shoot down and come back by calling him uneducated in the subject matter. How did you come to that conclusion? Was it because he dared to disagree with you? Wouldn't want to mess up your super hero rep. In any problem you don't test a hypothesis by looking at the answer and working your way back, you look at the evidence to determine a result. You are fixated on you being without a doubt an 8 and INFJ. This is wrong!
Lastly, I would think about the best way to approach the staff when you feel you have been wronged. Demanding I move the post back and ordering me to not "touch" your stuff in the future is the incorrect way. Request denied.
As to Scruffy's comment, nice shoot down and come back by calling him uneducated in the subject matter. How did you come to that conclusion? Was it because he dared to disagree with you? Wouldn't want to mess up your super hero rep. In any problem you don't test a hypothesis by looking at the answer and working your way back, you look at the evidence to determine a result. You are fixated on you being without a doubt an 8 and INFJ. This is wrong!
I know you deliberately posted in the INFJ forum, but me being an admin I have the prerogative to move things where I see fit. The best place to have this is in the Enneagram forum as it is an Enneagram issue more so than a MBTI one. Also, you are intentionally skewing the results to favour your bias.
Lastly, I would think about the best way to approach the staff when you feel you have been wronged. Demanding I move the post back and ordering me to not "touch" your stuff in the future is the incorrect way. Request denied.
And they're making assumptions that have little to do with anything mentioned in the OP. It would be nice to have an actual conversation about the subject at hand rather than jumping to an unrelated tangent.
And yes, I can in fact start at a variable I know is true and work back, especially when I'm using it as a measuring stick to examine another factor - hence the thread. I am without a doubt an 8. This isn't open to debate. You don't know me, nor does anyone else here. I'm not offended that people have made assumptions to the contrary, but they're wrong.
If you want to turn this into some manner of actual argument about who I am, I'd be happy to. I have a distinct advantage, seeing as I've known myself my whole life.
This thread is devoted to whether or not I'm an ENFJ or an INFJ, trying to determine if my being an 8 has any bearing on my MBTI type, hence the thread asking about how Enneagram type 8 affects the INFJ personality. I want examples and descriptions of how these types interact so I can form my own opinions. I haven't come here looking for a critique.
The intention of this thread is very clear. Just because your buddies jumped in and decided to derail this into a 'let me guess your type' thread does not mean it belongs here.
When someone is wrong, they are wrong. All I did was state the fact. You can consider it a shoot down if you like. Are you so defensive because this guy is one of your pals?
I don't have super hero rep. I've quite a reputation for being an opinionated combative bastard, actually. The name comes from a character I played in a video game long ago, and has become a net ID for me. The profile pic simply makes me happy to look at.
And yes, I can in fact start at a variable I know is true and work back, especially when I'm using it as a measuring stick to examine another factor - hence the thread. I am without a doubt an 8. This isn't open to debate. You don't know me, nor does anyone else here. I'm not offended that people have made assumptions to the contrary, but they're wrong.
If you want to turn this into some manner of actual argument about who I am, I'd be happy to. I have a distinct advantage, seeing as I've known myself my whole life.
This thread is devoted to whether or not I'm an ENFJ or an INFJ, trying to determine if my being an 8 has any bearing on my MBTI type, hence the thread asking about how Enneagram type 8 affects the INFJ personality. I want examples and descriptions of how these types interact so I can form my own opinions. I haven't come here looking for a critique.
No, I'm intentionally using one factor that I know is true as an orienting point to help determine a variable. I am an 8. Whether or not I am an INFJ or an ENFJ is the question.
The correct response is for you to act like an Admin, and not a clubhouse owner.
The intention of this thread is very clear. Just because your buddies jumped in and decided to derail this into a 'let me guess your type' thread does not mean it belongs here.
Can I, as a 9, wade in here and say "Calm down, calm down"?
TreeBob, he didn't call Scruffy uneducated in the subject matter, just "insightful, but wrong" - wrong, in his opinion to type him as a 2. But really, what anyone thinks his enneagram type is doesn't matter too much as what he is trying to figure out at the moment is whether he is INFJ or ENFJ. Once he has sorted that out, perhaps then he will look more into the enneagram again. Him thinking he is an 8 and others thinking he isn't is just confusing the matter right now and is derailing his original question of whether it is possible for him to be an INFJ. I, too, was surprised the thread was moved out of the INFJ forum.
Nobleheart - bad luck you rubbed the mods the wrong way but you'll learn from this mistake. Sorry if you feel like I am putting words in your mouth above, I'm sure you can fight your own battle, I just wanted to show that I understand your frustration at the moving of the thread. Maybe you can start again with a new thread in the INFJ forum listing what particular characteristics you have that you always thought were incompatible with being an INFJ. That way INFJs who aren't particularly knowledgeable about the enneagram can help you out too, and there won't be any confusion as to where the thread belongs.
Edit: well, looks like you already fought your own battle while I was fart-arsing around triple-reading my post to make sure it was fair and not too inflammatory...
TreeBob, he didn't call Scruffy uneducated in the subject matter, just "insightful, but wrong" - wrong, in his opinion to type him as a 2. But really, what anyone thinks his enneagram type is doesn't matter too much as what he is trying to figure out at the moment is whether he is INFJ or ENFJ. Once he has sorted that out, perhaps then he will look more into the enneagram again. Him thinking he is an 8 and others thinking he isn't is just confusing the matter right now and is derailing his original question of whether it is possible for him to be an INFJ. I, too, was surprised the thread was moved out of the INFJ forum.
Nobleheart - bad luck you rubbed the mods the wrong way but you'll learn from this mistake. Sorry if you feel like I am putting words in your mouth above, I'm sure you can fight your own battle, I just wanted to show that I understand your frustration at the moving of the thread. Maybe you can start again with a new thread in the INFJ forum listing what particular characteristics you have that you always thought were incompatible with being an INFJ. That way INFJs who aren't particularly knowledgeable about the enneagram can help you out too, and there won't be any confusion as to where the thread belongs.
Edit: well, looks like you already fought your own battle while I was fart-arsing around triple-reading my post to make sure it was fair and not too inflammatory...
You can, but the 8s have locked horns. Sorry.
Edit: This is one of the many reasons I'm considering INFJ, actually. I synchronize with INFJs and INTJs better than any other type, and am beginning to suspect that I'm Ni dominant again. The only reason I abandoned the notion in the first place was my consistent slight to moderate Extroversion scores on tests. As mentioned, I'm now considering that those scores are the result of my being an 8 sx.
And no, you're not putting words in my mouth. You're stating how you see things. Nothing wrong with that. I appreciate your understanding of my points, and your willingness to step into an 8 clash. Very brave for a 9, hun.
There is little point in starting another thread with factors that I wasn't trying to address, but I appreciate the suggestion.
Thank you. You stated the same points I was typing. I love synchronicity, especially when it proves that others are seeing the exact things I am.
Edit: This is one of the many reasons I'm considering INFJ, actually. I synchronize with INFJs and INTJs better than any other type, and am beginning to suspect that I'm Ni dominant again. The only reason I abandoned the notion in the first place was my consistent slight to moderate Extroversion scores on tests. As mentioned, I'm now considering that those scores are the result of my being an 8 sx.
I've been a forum staff member on several forums. I'm not going to say pretty please to someone who should know their job - which is service to the members. However, if there is a problem with staff members not understanding professionalism, I can always go somewhere else.
And no, you're not putting words in my mouth. You're stating how you see things. Nothing wrong with that. I appreciate your understanding of my points, and your willingness to step into an 8 clash. Very brave for a 9, hun.
There is little point in starting another thread with factors that I wasn't trying to address, but I appreciate the suggestion.
Yes, I always stand up for myself when needed. Thanks, though.
Locked horns, lol.
I say what I need to say then I wander away. I don't continue fights more than 3 or 4 posts in a thread. You won't draw me into any petty bickering on this. If you persist with this I will just close the thread and give you an infraction. So it's your choice on how you proceed. Move on and make a new post if you like. If I think it should stay where it is I will leave it as so.
If you wish to leave the forum over this then do so.
Just a final reminder from above. Drop the arguing and move on.
I say what I need to say then I wander away. I don't continue fights more than 3 or 4 posts in a thread. You won't draw me into any petty bickering on this. If you persist with this I will just close the thread and give you an infraction. So it's your choice on how you proceed. Move on and make a new post if you like. If I think it should stay where it is I will leave it as so.
If you wish to leave the forum over this then do so.
Bragging won't help win me or any other mods over. I will need to go over my notes but I am pretty sure we've banned many "staff" people from other forums. As I stated below, you demanded mods take action on the injustice done to you. If you had sent a PM and waited patiently then you might have gotten better service.
Just a final reminder from above. Drop the arguing and move on.
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