That last sentence is a
very good description of me actually.
Type 8 World View: The world is an unjust place. I am strong and I defend the innocent.
Type 8 Basic Desire: to be self-reliant
Stripped to its basic roots, type 8 is very compatible with INFJ's Protector role, and with INFJ's desire to be independant while still wanting to help other people.
So it's possible. I'm a 9w8 sx/so and I feel that I am much more extraverted than many of the INFJs that I have come across, to the point when I'm in my most extraverted phases I have tested as ENFJ, so if you are an 8w9 that 8 energy is going to be much more apparent and make you seem more extraverted than you actually are.
The people who really know me insist that I am an introvert. The people who don't know me well insist that I'm an extrovert. The way you put this makes a lot of sense.
I feel like I am usually deep within my own mind, and I have to be drawn out by circumstances. I'll even seek out the circumstances that can draw me out when I feel like I've been in my own mind too long. I can be very expressive and opinionated, and exert a lot of outward energy, which are traits that have kept me from thinking that I'm an INFJ. Now that you put it that way, it could easily be the 8 side that amplifies those.
I had a very happy and secure childhood and thus I was very 8-ish as a kid - the healthy, magnanimous, protective and quiet kind of 8. When puberty came it chipped away at my confidence and my 8 side went into hiding a bit. When I met my husband, a sensitive ISFJ, I had to tone down my eight-ish tendencies even more, because he felt a bit threatened by it. Well, I guess he liked the good, natural, honest, protective side, but didn't like the jealous, aggressive, sweary, bossy, uncouth side. I can understand that!
I'd read somewhere that 8's usually have abusive childhoods, were bullied, and/or saw a lot of injustice. That's certainly the case for me, though I was always an idealist, so I was quite magnanimous and protective. I was also quieter as a kid (though a bit intense), and grew into my confidence in my 20s. Until then I was constantly focused on ways to make sure I was strong enough to deal with everything life could throw at me and those I cared about... a lot of martial arts, etc.
"the jealous, aggressive, sweary, bossy, uncouth side"... Oh wow, that hits the nail on the head. This is the exact part of myself that my idealism is frequently trying to suppress... and also one of the main reasons I've assumed I wasn't an INFJ. So few of them have it.
My 8 wing still comes out with a vengeance when I am comfortable within a group, when I am fighting on behalf of someone who is weak and being picked on by someone more powerful, when I am fighting against someone who I feel is abusing their power and when I am drunk!
This entire paragraph is
so dead on, right down to the "when I am drunk" part. I had to stop drinking because I become such a pushy bastard when I do. Got in a lot of fights.
I looked at type 9w8 quite a bit for myself, and only realized I wasn't a 9 when I dug deeper into 9s motivations and unhealthy reactions. They are more prone to withdraw mentally and pull away from their emotions as a reaction to stress. I reflexively go to anger and assertion against my stresses, especially if they are rooted in injustice - I think I have a double dose of indignation against injustice being an NF idealist. While I very much want peace and harmony for everyone, I have to catch myself in order to stay calm and withdraw or else I'll reflexively become part of the problem.
There is nothing that I like better than empowering people to overcome their insecurities to become the person that they really want to be. I don't do it to get anything back in return. aside from maybe some respect, I do it because I like to see people happy and free to explore their potentials. I have always shied away from making this a career though, as being a nine I have a problem with boundaries and I worry that I will take on people's problems and be trapped in feeling responsible for them, when really they need to be responsible for themselves. I don't want people to be dependant on me. I want to be free to be who I am.
I think I am more inclined to protect people, and then help them reach their potential. For example, if I don't know someone and they need help, I'll give it. I once gave a homeless guy the coat I was wearing. I'm constantly buying people food when they are low on money. I'll help and protect people without thinking about it. This is an extroverted level of interaction for me. I do this sort of thing for strangers if they seem like they want and need it.
However, I have to have a personal investment in someone before I have the instinct to help them reach their potential, but once that instinct is tripped, I'm very attuned to their potential and how to help them reach it. This is an introverted level of interaction for me. It has to be one on one and intimate... takes a lot of thought and focus even though it's something I do naturally, especially on internet forums when people have questions and concerns about figuring themselves out.
I think you should study the functions more to figure out if you are INFJ or ENFJ. Trying to figure out if you are Fe or Ni dominant might be tricky if you use both equally so forget them for a minute...look to your tertiary and inferior functions for clues. INFJ's have Ti as tertiary, Se as inferior, while ENFJs have Se as tertiary and Ti as inferior. Do you think you rely on Ti or Se as your familiar backup function? Or which of Ti or Se do you feel that you are particularly weak in and project onto other people as qualities that you desire?
I've pondered this very subject for quite a while, and very much agree that a person with well developed dominant and secondary functions will tend to have trouble distinguishing them. I came to the conclusion that Se was my tertiary because of my raunchy bawdy sense of humor, but I'm starting to see that the part of me responsible for that might well be the other side of being an 8 (mentioned above). If that's the case, then it's no contest. I'm much more concerned with how things work (Ti) than taking in my surroundings (Se).
I once read a description of the difference between tertiary and inferior Se, and the inferior
definitely described me better. I also lose respect for people who have no interest in understanding how things work at least on a base level... which would imply that I'm Ti over Se.
Interesting. It seems that the only factors throwing me off of my original INFJ assessment are my type 8 traits. As you mentioned, the 'good side' of type 8 very much align with INFJ or ENFJ descriptions. However, the 'bad side' of type 8 doesn't line up with the standard INFJ descriptions much at all.
Edit: and try not to use your cognitive function scores to assess that, read the descriptions of the functions and really get a feel for what they are and what feels natural to you. As someone very helpfully pointed out to me, and I will rephrase their metaphor in my own words - just because you use a sword often doesn't mean you are a swordsman - even though you might have practiced hard with it throughout the years and use it every hour of the day, it may not necessarily ever feel like a natural talent. You might be naturally wonderful at using a crossbow, but find it boring because it is too easy for you, or not very useful in the hand-to-hand combat that you more often find yourself in, so therefore you kind of forget on a day to day basis that you are a natural crossbowman. Ya dig?
Hehe... I also do the Edit thing - notoriously. I know it's my Ni coming up with additional points as it has a chance to percolate.
Also, I agree about the function scores. That test measures usage, not preference. It would be foolish to assume that usage scores equate to preferences. Also, I test INFJ about half the time and ENFJ close to the other half with the odd INFP, INTJ, or ENFP score thrown in. This is across the range of many tests I've taken. Some have more consistent leanings one way or the other, while some of the tests are clearly affected by my mood or current state of mind.
I think you may have helped me unlock a real mystery within myself with respect to these two systems. I'm going to think about it for a while and see if it lines up.
Thank you very much for your quick and helpful response!