Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,990 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I've been thinking about this for some time (years) and I've been trying to take on more extraverted and action traits, because I'd rather not have downsides, especially when I am aware of what they are and how they hurt me and my life:

INFJs don't often approach the opposite sex, meanwhile ESTPs will die if they don't
INFJs many times would rather withdraw than experience conflict, while ESTPs relish it
INFJs many times don't feel like going out, whereas ESTPs will die if they don't go out

You can see where I'm going with this

Taking on ESTP traits can only benefit INFJs, which I've experienced firsthand in the past two years. Oftentimes, going against your feelings holds massive gains, like when you have an exam to take but you don't feel like studying, yet you do it anyway. Or when you doubt yourself in some way yet you go ahead with what you want, regardless.

Feelings can be a crutch in many situations, whereas logic, specifically logic you act on will hold greater rewards, so much so, that you'll be glad you ignored your feelings.

The transition isn't easy and you'll probably still have typical INFJ moments, but you can break out of it on a regular basis and get things done, in true ESTP fashion.

So I wholeheartedly encourage INFJs to start mimicking ESTP traits in the real world and see what happens, because most of the time it's gonna be something great :happy:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
so pretty much you resisted your reserved nature and decided to be more assertive


nicely done friend ;D
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,174 Posts
Absolutely no good will come of this.
Be yourself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,553 Posts
Sounds like what I've done

Since reading up in the INFJ and the MBTI, I've become like a mish-mash of the INTJ, INTP, and INFP

They're all introverts, sure, but now my intuition is getting better

But in my own opinion, I'd rather be super smart and super adaptable as opposed to pining towards what society expects from me
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,174 Posts
odd, I had expected extraverts to encourage me:cool:
Extrovert is not synonymous with idiot.

Infj's can be outgoing, all it requires is more confidence in who they are.

Be you, and do it defiantly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
945 Posts
It seems there are a lot of threads on the INFJ Forum lately, encouraging us to be more E or 'get out of our heads, and our shells' and suchlike.
Now I understand the need for a little balance, but becoming your shadow is one way to really start making a mess of your life.
As ENTePrenuer say..No good will come of this.
I have slipped into my shadow in the past under stress, or when absolutely sozzled drunk. Neither scenario ever did me much good, because when I became 'myself' again, my poor Dr Jekyl had a lot of apologising and PR work to do for my Mr Hyde side.
Not a good idea, methinks.
Look, INFJ is Introverted,.. if I force myself to go out more, mix more, use sensing more,.. that will make me unhappy. Why on earth do I want to force myself to do things that make me unhappy? Wheres the sense in that? Whenever I've become my shadow, I have never liked myself much at those times. Does it get things done? Sure, in a fashion, but never in a 'good' way. I always felt that I'd compromised my own values or standards and my own set of rules for living at those times. The ESTP shadow can seduce anyone, have anyone, can manipulate, can charm in a very calculating way, and when you're on your shadow roll, and you're playing it to the hilt, its difficult to see when the positive side of ESTP becomes the real 'nasty' shadow side. I garuntee doing this will land you in situations your true INFJ character will cringe about, and be ashamed of.
Oh, I dunno, maybe I'm having empathy fail here or something, but I just cant understand why someone would think that becoming your own shadow permanently would be a great thing for you.
G. x
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
It seems there are a lot of threads on the INFJ Forum lately, encouraging us to be more E or 'get out of our heads, and our shells' and suchlike.
Now I understand the need for a little balance, but becoming your shadow is one way to really start making a mess of your life.
As ENTePrenuer say..No good will come of this.
I have slipped into my shadow in the past under stress, or when absolutely sozzled drunk. Neither scenario ever did me much good, because when I became 'myself' again, my poor Dr Jekyl had a lot of apologising and PR work to do for my Mr Hyde side.
Not a good idea, methinks.
Look, INFJ is Introverted,.. if I force myself to go out more, mix more, use sensing more,.. that will make me unhappy. Why on earth do I want to force myself to do things that make me unhappy? Wheres the sense in that? Whenever I've become my shadow, I have never liked myself much at those times. Does it get things done? Sure, in a fashion, but never in a 'good' way. I always felt that I'd compromised my own values or standards and my own set of rules for living at those times. The ESTP shadow can seduce anyone, have anyone, can manipulate, can charm in a very calculating way, and when you're on your shadow roll, and you're playing it to the hilt, its difficult to see when the positive side of ESTP becomes the real 'nasty' shadow side. I garuntee doing this will land you in situations your true INFJ character will cringe about, and be ashamed of.
Oh, I dunno, maybe I'm having empathy fail here or something, but I just cant understand why someone would think that becoming your own shadow permanently would be a great thing for you.
G. x
I agree with this whole heartedly and completely.

While there is a need for some sort of balance, you are you for a reason. Trying to not be you will never lead anywhere good, unless you're a professional actor. In fact, I've heard plenty of advice everywhere encouraging everyone to be themselves, but never have I ever heard a professional say "Try to be someone else!" (And believe me, I've spoken to a few professionals.).

There's nothing wrong with being an introvert, or an INFJ specifically. It's one of 16 beautiful and unique personality types fitting the various different people on Earth. It certainly may be a withdrawn, indoorsy personality type (For some, as always there are many variations for any given basic type) as you have said in your post, but there's nothing at all wrong with that. Some things are for some people, and some things aren't. Personally, after a childhood and teenhood full of struggling to like myself and my own traits, I'm just happy with myself. I don't know what I'd do if I was out all the time or with others of either gender all the time anyway. I very much enjoy writing and reading and listening to music.

I'm happy for you if you've found happiness in your decision to act against your nature, and I suppose on some level I appreciate what you're trying to do through your advice. :happy: It's not the route I would recommend, but who am I to alter someone else's pursuit of happiness? I hope being your shadow is as wonderful for you as you say it is. As for me? I'm just happy with my INFJ self. :happy:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Angel1412kaitou

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,005 Posts
You forgot the negative side of ESTPs that I've seen come out in myself when I'm very overwhelmed and stressed....... lack of patience, just wanting to get stuff done, all about trying to keep the fast pace going to get things done as fast as possible, being a bit pushy and commanding, etc. etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DreamerofDreams

·
Registered
Joined
·
737 Posts
So I wholeheartedly encourage INFJs to start mimicking ESTP traits in the real world and see what happens, because most of the time it's gonna be something great :happy:
Let me tell you what. I nearly got into a lot of trouble when I 'mimicked' those ESTP traits. And I don't want to talk about what I did because some of it bothers me. But some of it makes me laugh and feel proud of myself! And do you know what? I'm glad I did it because now I have a better arsenal and a greater understanding of myself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,990 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
You forgot the negative side of ESTPs that I've seen come out in myself when I'm very overwhelmed and stressed....... lack of patience, just wanting to get stuff done, all about trying to keep the fast pace going to get things done as fast as possible, being a bit pushy and commanding, etc. etc.
what's wrong with that? :sad:

being intense rocks, getting stuff done in an hour that others do in 3 is great
 

·
Registered
🌈🎹☮INFJ 666 sx/sp🇺🇸💃🏻💋
Joined
·
2,767 Posts
I have definitely had ESTP moments in my life, particularly when I was younger, and it made me completely miserable. It was difficult because I grew up with an ENFJ mom who just does not understand my introverted nature. So, I found myself trying to fit into a mold of who my parents wanted me to be rather than who I am. Going against who I am has never ended well for me. I may have liked the things I was accomplishing, but I didn't like myself as a person. Also. when I was in ESTP mode I didn't listen to my instincts as much as I should have and ended up in some situations that could have been avoided had I trusted my intuition. So, I stopped trying to be someone I'm not.
I have learned over the years to be more assertive and to get out there and get things done, but it has developed more from learning to love myself for who I am and building my own self confidence., not from going against my natural instincts which nine times out of ten will get me into trouble.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,333 Posts
It seems there are a lot of threads on the INFJ Forum lately, encouraging us to be more E or 'get out of our heads, and our shells' and suchlike.
Now I understand the need for a little balance, but becoming your shadow is one way to really start making a mess of your life.
As ENTePrenuer say..No good will come of this.
I have slipped into my shadow in the past under stress, or when absolutely sozzled drunk. Neither scenario ever did me much good, because when I became 'myself' again, my poor Dr Jekyl had a lot of apologising and PR work to do for my Mr Hyde side.
Not a good idea, methinks.
Look, INFJ is Introverted,.. if I force myself to go out more, mix more, use sensing more,.. that will make me unhappy. Why on earth do I want to force myself to do things that make me unhappy? Wheres the sense in that? Whenever I've become my shadow, I have never liked myself much at those times. Does it get things done? Sure, in a fashion, but never in a 'good' way. I always felt that I'd compromised my own values or standards and my own set of rules for living at those times. The ESTP shadow can seduce anyone, have anyone, can manipulate, can charm in a very calculating way, and when you're on your shadow roll, and you're playing it to the hilt, its difficult to see when the positive side of ESTP becomes the real 'nasty' shadow side. I garuntee doing this will land you in situations your true INFJ character will cringe about, and be ashamed of.
Oh, I dunno, maybe I'm having empathy fail here or something, but I just cant understand why someone would think that becoming your own shadow permanently would be a great thing for you.
G. x
...and the reason I love this woman. Goode. very well stated and appropriate.

what's wrong with that? :sad:

being intense rocks, getting stuff done in an hour that others do in 3 is great
I think we all understand where you are coming from.
I often think of my shadow as my arsenal. something that comes out to fight when my INFJ side is completely defensless and drained.
only problem is, like most others have stated is that we keep doing these dark deeds (acts we would be ashamed of normally) but in the ESTP mode we feel an abscence of sorts and when we tune in to check our intuition it ends up being blank, then our shadows feel tehy can continue on this path.
--now that is when the shadow comes out and fights for our being to keep us alive.

now what I think YOU are talking about is "acting" like an ESTP, not necessarily becoming your shadow. i have an extraverted showy role that I also use not to get angry and destroy others but to mirror a possible lover or person I need in my life.
I realize I don't just do this with ESTP's though I do it with many different types of people. role-playing is how I understand people, mainly how my intuition works, and when I need to get things done in the extraverted world roleplaying is the easiest way to do that for me.
this isn't as dangerous as being charged up Mr. Hyde as goode would put it but it is still quite dangerous once your life gets to the point that all the different sides conflict within yourself...
(I would explain this more but it would take a thousand years... sorry)

I wanted to bring this topic into the grey area.
mainly because the die hard INFJ's and self-truists.(he he... new word!)
and the experience new things love your shadow side
are both correct.
for many different reasons.
also I don't know if any of you know this but there are not that many INFJ's on the forums who are not riding out a stressed I/ESTP version of themselves into everyone else on here.
I bid you warning to get back into YOUR worlds and stop stressing so much about type distinction.


my final advice on the matter.
I am unsure but I think/intuit that the reason we act out these roles or desire this new side to our life is because we are meant to become that, if not be with that.

I am myself all the time. my introverted nature is little but still there, I force myself out more than I can handle. the idea of being spontaneous and fun is thrilling and exciting to me but I can't do it alone.
I can't just get out there and face the world unless I know someone will be by my side fighting my battles on my behalf.
I understand your longing for the ESTP, wether it be in yourself or you wanting it from another.
INFJ's are singers without a voice.
we don't often find that voice we need, so we try to become it to fill in that hole.

a heart cannot digest food like the stomach can. but both are needed to keep the human body alive.
trying to be something you are not is basically not good.
trying to be something you are not to get something you need... now thats another story.:happy:

...and I'm done.
(panting from being in temporary speaker mode)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
945 Posts
...and the reason I love this woman. Goode. very well stated and appropriate.



I think we all understand where you are coming from.
I often think of my shadow as my arsenal. something that comes out to fight when my INFJ side is completely defensless and drained.
only problem is, like most others have stated is that we keep doing these dark deeds (acts we would be ashamed of normally) but in the ESTP mode we feel an abscence of sorts and when we tune in to check our intuition it ends up being blank, then our shadows feel tehy can continue on this path.
--now that is when the shadow comes out and fights for our being to keep us alive.

now what I think YOU are talking about is "acting" like an ESTP, not necessarily becoming your shadow. i have an extraverted showy role that I also use not to get angry and destroy others but to mirror a possible lover or person I need in my life.
I realize I don't just do this with ESTP's though I do it with many different types of people. role-playing is how I understand people, mainly how my intuition works, and when I need to get things done in the extraverted world roleplaying is the easiest way to do that for me.
this isn't as dangerous as being charged up Mr. Hyde as goode would put it but it is still quite dangerous once your life gets to the point that all the different sides conflict within yourself...
(I would explain this more but it would take a thousand years... sorry)

I wanted to bring this topic into the grey area.
mainly because the die hard INFJ's and self-truists.(he he... new word!)
and the experience new things love your shadow side
are both correct.
for many different reasons.
also I don't know if any of you know this but there are not that many INFJ's on the forums who are not riding out a stressed I/ESTP version of themselves into everyone else on here.
I bid you warning to get back into YOUR worlds and stop stressing so much about type distinction.


my final advice on the matter.
I am unsure but I think/intuit that the reason we act out these roles or desire this new side to our life is because we are meant to become that, if not be with that.

I am myself all the time. my introverted nature is little but still there, I force myself out more than I can handle. the idea of being spontaneous and fun is thrilling and exciting to me but I can't do it alone.
I can't just get out there and face the world unless I know someone will be by my side fighting my battles on my behalf.
I understand your longing for the ESTP, wether it be in yourself or you wanting it from another.
INFJ's are singers without a voice.
we don't often find that voice we need, so we try to become it to fill in that hole.

a heart cannot digest food like the stomach can. but both are needed to keep the human body alive.
trying to be something you are not is basically not good.
trying to be something you are not to get something you need... now thats another story.:happy:

...and I'm done.
(panting from being in temporary speaker mode)
And this is why I love you too Green.
This is about as difinitive as you're ever going to be on this subject. This post is brilliant, IMO
Ohh Green, you tempt me to don my temporary ESTP cloak again,.. its been a while, but as you say, I used it mostly to charm certain birdies from trees, birdies that caught my eye, lol.
I always worked, amazingly,.. and therein lies the rub, assuming the role is temptation indeed.
Ohh, the memories, hahah.
G. x
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,990 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I wonder if ESTP's adapt INFJ qualities to adapt to INFJ's?
maybe?
hahahaha they're probably busy watching their investments evolve etc.

but really, sometimes I feel I'm more ESTP than INFJ, I'm spending more and more time as ESTP

"it's too late Luke, I am one with the darkside"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,721 Posts
I've been thinking about this for some time (years) and I've been trying to take on more extraverted and action traits, because I'd rather not have downsides, especially when I am aware of what they are and how they hurt me and my life:

INFJs don't often approach the opposite sex, meanwhile ESTPs will die if they don't
INFJs many times would rather withdraw than experience conflict, while ESTPs relish it
INFJs many times don't feel like going out, whereas ESTPs will die if they don't go out

You can see where I'm going with this

Taking on ESTP traits can only benefit INFJs, which I've experienced firsthand in the past two years. Oftentimes, going against your feelings holds massive gains, like when you have an exam to take but you don't feel like studying, yet you do it anyway. Or when you doubt yourself in some way yet you go ahead with what you want, regardless.

Feelings can be a crutch in many situations, whereas logic, specifically logic you act on will hold greater rewards, so much so, that you'll be glad you ignored your feelings.

The transition isn't easy and you'll probably still have typical INFJ moments, but you can break out of it on a regular basis and get things done, in true ESTP fashion.

So I wholeheartedly encourage INFJs to start mimicking ESTP traits in the real world and see what happens, because most of the time it's gonna be something great :happy:

Others have kind of touched on my main points, but I'll kind of sum it up by saying this: The key thing is to be yourself and be happy with yourself, but at the same time be willing to work on and improve your flaws.

So it depends on what you mean in this post...if you're saying that you've seen some of your problems in the past and by using some ESTP traits you've overcome them, then that's awesome. I think that's one of the best things about learning about other types.

But if you're saying that there's something wrong with the INFJ traits and that it would be better to "act" like an ESTP, that's where I think people are disagreeing with you, and where I do too. I firmly believe that no one type is better than any other, and that they all have even strengths and weaknesses.

I think the difference is that INFJ's are probably more aware of strengths and weaknesses than ESTP's are, and that right there is a strength in itself!

I'll use my own experience as an example. I know I'm biased by being an ISFJ, but from my experience I've greatly enjoyed INFJ's more than ESTP's.

I have a close friend who is an INFJ, and I feel comfortable telling her almost anything about myself and I love her for her support of me so much. If I ever have a problem I feel like I can turn to her, and she makes me feel so good about myself.

On the other hand, I have a co-worker/pseudofriend who's an ESTP. When I'm around her, sometimes I don't even feel like talking because she can be very judgmental and harsh. A lot of times she's blunt to the point where she doesn't care how other people think and feel. She's told me that I need to be more like her and that my life is boring and that I need to change. Due to this, not only has she made me feel bad, but more importantly it's kept me from ever wanting to be real friends with her. And you know what's funny? A few times she's asked me to tell me more personal things about myself, and I refuse or give very general answers, because she's so judgmental! And she doesn't get that at all.


Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be typist here. I actually know a few ESTP guys who are quite enjoyable and fun to be around. But that's partly because my relationship with them is very thin...I just do stuff with them from time to time, I don't confide in them or really hang out with them seriously.

So I'm not saying INFJ's are good and ESTP's are bad, or that INFJ's are better...I'm just using this example to make my point.

You say it's a strength that ESTP's relish conflict? It's made me resent this ESTP girl and cherish my INFJ friend. You say logic holds greater rewards than feelings? That same logic has kept me from even wanting to talk to this ESTP girl and the feelings have given me a lifelong friend with my INFJ friend. And ESTP's dying if they don't go out? I think that's a weakness as much as anything else, because that's a crutch too...how sad it can be to not be able to enjoy the simplicities of life and personal reflection.


Again, don't get me wrong...I understand what you're saying here, and I do agree that ESTP's have strengths where INFJ's have weaknesses. And the only reason I'm being so hard on ESTP's is because you lifted them up so much...like I said, there's no such thing as a bad type and there are awesome people of all 16 types. But my point is that ESTP's have just as many weaknesses as INFJ's.



So like I said at the beginning, it's great to understand the strengths of INFJ's and see how you can adapt and improve your life by utilizing them. But that doens't mean getting down on yourself and trying to be someone else. As my example showed and as people have said, it will only cause harm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
You know - this may be more of an issue of mistyping than anything.

I spent most of my teenage years thinking I was an iNxp, but now that I'm in my 30s, I've happily evolved into what I feel is a more natural ENxJ.

I never felt that iNxp was bad, but I wasn't happy - I felt like I was holding back my true personality constantly for a variety of reasons (parents, forced lack of choice in many areas of life!*). Now that I have my independence, my true traits are shining and I am a much more happy and balanced individual.

*an extremely controlling ISxJ parent can do that to you!

just my 2 cents!
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top