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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, new profile so not exactly new to these forums. Had a profile a few years ago, but never really went anywhere with it, so just thought I'd start over. Buy yeah hi.

Sort of venting here, but also advice welcome. I am an INFJ 4w5. I've gone through some significant life changes in the past year. My INFP friend likes to remind me that I've made really remarkable progress considering what my background is and what my life has been like. She's not wrong, but I guess the future oriented idealist in me just can't be satisfied, amiright guys? I know I'm currently in a rut and I think that rut is really starting to get to me. I know I'll calm down, but at the exact moment I'm writing this I'm just buggin' out with frustration. I think I could probably use healthy jolt to me SE. I know I'm too lodged in my head right now, but at the same time, I just can't get myself started. Do you guys have any sound advice or anything for when you feel this way? I'm especially frustrated because when I look at stuff about SE in regards to INFJ's it's like this, that, the other thing or basically anything that gets your body moving. And I'm like hold on a sec, my job is actually really physical. I'm a visual merchandiser for a furniture company, I set up all kinds of crazy displays, that require me to lift heavy objects, climb on ladders, use power tools and work with my hands. I also do a ton of walking. Wouldn't this satisfy my SE? Or is it because I do this for work and there's a lot of creativity and even mental energy also going into the physicality of my job, that it doesn't exactly count? Like do I gotta just SE for the sake of SE, y'know? Like yeah I walk around a lot for work, but like I should probably just go for a walk with no other point than to walk? Ugh like going for a walk sounds so simple and yet I'm like, is that really it, do I really have to go for a walk? I don't want to walk! Ugh!

Does anyone have anything to add?
 

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Engaging Se is generally stress-inducing for INFJ, unless it's very mild an noninvasive by nature. What type of Se calms you down is really more up to you to decide. It sounds like the ways you use Se at work cause stress, not help you get out of stress. In general, the best way to relax from a high stress state is to work in reverse of the stack....start with something mildly Se, like music or a calm environment are common starting points, then work your way into mild use of Ti, like solving a relatively simple puzzle or playing a game. Then you move up to Fe, such as chatting with a trusted friend or family member, or perhaps being on this forum, or analysis of behaviors (this also fits in with Ti). Then finally, engage in Ni again, day dreaming or determining a future vision you wish to work towards. As you move up the stack you should start feeling better.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I guess that's just my thing, SE is stressful to me. I can't think of anything that sounds like fun, it's just all a chore. I know I read somewhere that suggested cooking. And I use to love cooking, now it's just so much work. I got one of those free trials of those meal boxes, I think it was blue apron, recently. And for a moment it felt really good, and I was like, oh yeah I really do miss this. But then after seeing all the dishes it created for me (I HATE doing dishes) it just stressed me out again.
 

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Se isn't really an action, it's a way of thinking about action.

Just ponder this... people of all different types manage to move their bodies, and see and smell stuff, on a pretty regular basis, and yet we wouldn't be thinking they're engaging Se only, right? It isn't about the senses or movement in itself, it's a way of thinking about those things.

We have a strong perception function - Ni, which is perfectly capable of helping us daydreamingly drift through physical tasks without having to engage Se at all. All of the perception functions have some connection to the senses and outer world, the question is what parts they focus on.
That's why so much of the advice about Se use is pretty shortsighted, and fairly useless.
For the most part, all INJs are going to be weak in Se until they're of a sufficient age and life experience that the changes come about more naturally.
Dr. AJ Drenth (of Personality Junkie) in his book offered a time table of function development for the types - tertiary functions develop the most through the late 20's - early 40's, and inferior functions develop the most through the mid 40's - early 60's. (Note: this is numbers talk, not really my thing, so it might be a touch off, but this is my recollection.)

Still, we can all try, and push it a bit... just as long as expectations stay reasonable. Anyone who doesn't have trouble with it can't be an INJ.

The idea with Se is to actually notice what you're looking at, in it's real exterior form. How long can you maintain this in a comfortable, low pressure setting?
Can you observe Se style thoughts in yourself? What does it sound like?
Hint: stuff like, "It is what it is".

It's also helpful (to me) to remember that it's not a refusal to use the inferior that is the frustrating part. Avoiding it is "the happy place"...
Nope, it's actually using it that is frustrating, because once it turns on we want to do our best, have it all accomplished perfectly, this is the stress that makes using an inferior so hard (for all the types, they want to be great at theirs)… but ours is sensory so it's really obvious when we screw up (to us), even minorly. Ni starts screaming to be done, but Se keeps fighting to do it right. It's a function war of who's in charge, because both can't work concomitantly, according to function theory.

P.S. I hate dishes too.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks, That was helpful. I just feel so stuck in my head right now, and I'm trying to figure out what I can do to snap out of it. It's winter. I work a lot. My social life has fallen off the radar. On the one hand it's so simple to say to myself, a walk will actually clear my head.... so just go fricking do it! But I guess that's where the wanting to do it right comes in, because I'm thinking, yeah but it's winter, it's ugly and cold out. Where am I even walking to? what would be the point then? And I just keep getting myself bogged down in that thought process.
 

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Thanks, That was helpful. I just feel so stuck in my head right now, and I'm trying to figure out what I can do to snap out of it. It's winter. I work a lot. My social life has fallen off the radar. On the one hand it's so simple to say to myself, a walk will actually clear my head.... so just go fricking do it! But I guess that's where the wanting to do it right comes in, because I'm thinking, yeah but it's winter, it's ugly and cold out. Where am I even walking to? what would be the point then? And I just keep getting myself bogged down in that thought process.
Problem solved:

 
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P.S. I hate dishes too.
I like doing the dishes... I like pretty much anything that creates order (cleaning, washing dishes, laundry etc.) and dislike everything that creates chaos (cooking...). I generally don't like doing it for lazy others though, lol, before you ask me to do yours :laughing: But I really enjoy keeping my own place in perfect order.
 
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Problem solved:
At my gym, they even have touch screens with YouTube... Can watch any amount of crap while forcing the body through its paces. Been mostly watching stuff like the Rubin Report, Sam Harris podcasts etc.
 

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At my gym, they even have touch screens with YouTube... Can watch any amount of crap while forcing the body through its paces. Been mostly watching stuff like the Rubin Report, Sam Harris podcasts etc.
I only prefer thinking without unnecessary distraction.

The current state of society is full of distraction. I used to think those we live their life by distracting themselves with useless trivia while waiting for their dead doesn't know how to live their life, especially those who have literally a gym-life, a life that is mostly spent in gym activity and ego masturbation over how their body is looking good. If looking to mirror is not enough for them, they share their body in social media then this picture used in porn website. Everyone is happy for it, right? It's just an example of those who live their life for nothing.

I really miss a time period that unfortunately I never lived, a time period that only technology is pen and people are freer than now. Now, nearly everything has the potential for distraction; smartphones for example: I see young people walking while focusing on their smartphone. Even cars have a screen these days. Wow. These people then go home and watch something. No time to think because some people think for others and share information. Our new diseases: Opinions. Thanks to the information age, information is easy to share and access. People believe anything they learned because the source of information seems expert in their field. For example, once my friend showed me a youtube video about masons that found a way to communicate with spirits. It's clearly BS, right? My friend didn't believe it because the guy who made the video has more than 5k or something subscriber therefore he is worthy to be trustable according to him and it's about masons (he thinks they are expert about everything) therefore the information he shared must be true. I laughed and shared my opinion about why it's probably BS and advised him not to believe everything he learned otherwise he would try contacting with spirits by following a recipe that is shared in the video. Wow. Maybe spirits are real and there is a way to contact them but I have no reason to believe and risk my life for it but unfortunately some people disagree. lmao

Now people learn from "experts" to become an expert themselves (knowledge is power, right? nope, not quite) by believing every information these people share. Learning is okay but what matters is; an ability to find out the validity of information and being able to use information properly which most people lacks therefore society secretly suiciding while people live their life for nothing.

I stated, "people live their life for nothing" and I'm people too therefore I live my life for nothing too so who am I to judge, right? No one chose to be born therefore they can live their life however they want as long as they won't prevent people from living the life they want but no matter what, no one will have a really meaningful life anyway because no matter what they do, what they did won't be permanent. Yet, some people want to be part of history just because they can't just admit they are nothing and will be forgotten. They think they will die when they are forgotten therefore they want to be remembered. What's so wrong about being forgotten is beyond me. Maybe I will realize the reason during my next exercise. Maybe I'm wrong to think like these.
 

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I like doing the dishes... I like pretty much anything that creates order (cleaning, washing dishes, laundry etc.) and dislike everything that creates chaos (cooking...). I generally don't like doing it for lazy others though, lol, before you ask me to do yours :laughing: But I really enjoy keeping my own place in perfect order.
P.S. I hate dishes too.
I love doing the dishes, too, mostly because I dislike cooking :laughing: (though recently, I've come to increasingly like it). I'd rather have someone cook for me, and as a token of gratitude, I'd gladly do the washing for them. It's been the case so far for my ENFP friends who volunteer to cook me a meal once in a while. :tongue:
 

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I go to a dance class once a week. It's my only form of exercise. :laughing: But it helps me get out of my head and my overthinking tendencies. Sometimes, it can be a frustrating experience to look in the mirror and find myself not properly executing the steps as coolly and perfectly as the instructor does, but I do it for endorphins and to release myself from the chain of my thoughts from time to time.
 

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I like doing the dishes...... I generally don't like doing it for lazy others though, lol, before you ask me to do yours :laughing:
I love doing the dishes, too, mostly because I dislike cooking :laughing: (though recently, I've come to increasingly like it). I'd rather have someone cook for me, and as a token of gratitude, I'd gladly do the washing for them.
*Rebecca starts packing her pots & pans dishes up in UPS boxes*
Lots of tape... more tape in all directions.



It's funny though, that people seem to divide to be happy cooking or happy washing up, but rarely both.

This is why I only use paper plates, disposable plastic cutlery and cups.
Well, that and my OCD issues leave me worrying about how clean anything ever gets, even from air contact, so new plastic is a life saver, (on the ecological side, well I've worked out that I'm saving a lot of water & heat energy, so I don't feel too bad).
 

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I guess that's just my thing, SE is stressful to me. I can't think of anything that sounds like fun, it's just all a chore. I know I read somewhere that suggested cooking. And I use to love cooking, now it's just so much work. I got one of those free trials of those meal boxes, I think it was blue apron, recently. And for a moment it felt really good, and I was like, oh yeah I really do miss this. But then after seeing all the dishes it created for me (I HATE doing dishes) it just stressed me out again.
Browsing artistic photography or listening to music surely aren't stressful? Try some smooth jazz.
 

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Se use on its own is a distraction from depression and stress, but if you combine it with Fe (backed up by Ni-Ti) you can come out on the other side of it with something more. As an ENFJ I use my Fe-Se quite a lot when I'm feeling down. I play/write music on my guitar, paint things, draw portraits, create things in my wood working shop, etc. I try to create something physical that is meaningful or useful to me to establish self worth and provide a sense of accomplishment. A monument that says "I am alive, I have purpose, I can accomplish what I set my mind to".

High Ni demands that things be completed and usually only feels satisfied when it has reached the end or found its answer. But it's up to Fe-Se in an XNFJ to do the external work since Ni-Ti can only go so far with planning and thinking.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Never so much cared for jazz, but thank you. I think something that makes SE difficult for me, is that if I am doing it by myself, I run the risk of getting all in my head again. I should mention I have ADD, so it's easy for me to become inattentive in whatever I do. I think especially with the current mood I am in. SE stuff sounds like buddy stuff to me. I guess that's the other problem, I've shed a lot of friends, and am reluctant (for good reason) to allow the ones I still talk to get all that close or involved in my life again. I kept thinking, man all this shit would be fun and easy if I was doing it with a friend. I currently have no extroverts in my life, and the introverts... well we're much like herding cats aren't we? I can hear myself talk and I know I sound like I'm being fussy and difficult, but what can I say? I very much FEEL fussy and difficult. I can't just make my brain happy at the moment. But that's a lot what ADD can feel like, there's a pissy toddler in your head that just wants what it wants. I feel like at least coming on here and venting to people is at least a start. I've really cut down my social life, at first it was for the best. Now I guess I need more people in my life to make it interesting again. But I'm in my 30's, work a full time job (that I enjoy, but exhausts me too) and I'm just looking at myself like Christ, where do I even begin to rebuild a social life? I'm stuck in this logic loop like, fuck, I need more friends, eh, but friends are so much work, what will renew and refresh me? Apparently working on your inferior function should revitalize you. Ugh but SE shit is buddy shit – I got no one to hang out with – uuuuuuggghhh!

Like I get it tho, I know I'm being ridiculous. I'm trying to work my way through it. Thanks to anyone who has taken the time to indulge me thus far.
 

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SE stuff sounds like buddy stuff to me. I guess that's the other problem, I've shed a lot of friends, and am reluctant (for good reason) to allow the ones I still talk to get all that close or involved in my life again. I kept thinking, man all this shit would be fun and easy if I was doing it with a friend. I currently have no extroverts in my life, and the introverts... well we're much like herding cats aren't we?

I've really cut down my social life, at first it was for the best. Now I guess I need more people in my life to make it interesting again. But I'm in my 30's, work a full time job (that I enjoy, but exhausts me too) and I'm just looking at myself like Christ, where do I even begin to rebuild a social life? I'm stuck in this logic loop like, fuck, I need more friends, eh, but friends are so much work, what will renew and refresh me? Apparently working on your inferior function should revitalize you. Ugh but SE shit is buddy shit – I got no one to hang out with – uuuuuuggghhh!

Like I get it tho, I know I'm being ridiculous. I'm trying to work my way through it. Thanks to anyone who has taken the time to indulge me thus far.
Se is not about doing things with other people, it's about interacting with the physical world around you. XNFJs have a fault where we think we need others with us to do things. It's a crutch that holds us back from enjoying things on our own. Fe-Ni always whispers in our ears saying "I could do it alone, but wouldn't it be so much better to share it with someone else?".

Doing things for yourself by yourself is a healthy thing to do for an XNFJ. We cannot depend on others for all our life to ensure our happiness or to help us brave the Se world. (I've tried it, it doesn't work).

Go watch that movie you've been wanting to watch, Go to that shop that has that cool thing you want to see, Make your own music/art for your own satisfaction. Learn to wield your Se without the help of others.
 

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I like doing the dishes... I like pretty much anything that creates order (cleaning, washing dishes, laundry etc.) and dislike everything that creates chaos (cooking...). I generally don't like doing it for lazy others though, lol, before you ask me to do yours :laughing: But I really enjoy keeping my own place in perfect order.
Fellow therapeutic dish-doer here. It's the only activity I can dissociate into. When I'm really upset, I'll often find that I've started doing the dishes without realizing it. Or that having finished the dishes that actually need washing, I'll have grabbed and started washing used-once water bottles or dusty vases that didn't strictly need a wash yet, a dish-doing machine. I'll suddenly see the whatever-it-is in my hands as I'm towel drying it or setting it clean on the drainboard, and think, "Huh?"

I have been known to purposely save up a nasty mess of pots and pans from the night before on therapy days, so I can pile in as soon as I get home.

Doing dishes with a dishwasher isn't the same. Yech. :frustrating: No contact, no flow. Opening, shutting, plasticy mechanical tactile experience, spatial calculations, walking back and forth tediously from the sink.

And, perversely, I only feel the dish-doing pull when I'm in the right frame of mind, and it's not a matter of needing to get the kitchen cleaned up quickly for something.

*Rebecca starts packing her pots & pans dishes up in UPS boxes*
Lots of tape... more tape in all directions.
:tongue:

It's funny though, that people seem to divide to be happy cooking or happy washing up, but rarely both.
I love doing the dishes, too, mostly because I dislike cooking :laughing: (though recently, I've come to increasingly like it). I'd rather have someone cook for me, and as a token of gratitude, I'd gladly do the washing for them.
I do like both, just not in quick succession. Trying to digest and wash at the same time, no thanks. Like heavy baked goods, crusty pans are better the second day.
 
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