I myself am aware of it (part of why I'm so interested in the MBTI is to find my own faults) but I imagine that if an INFJ was not looking for their own faults, they would truly believe that there is someone better out there, and that everything up to that point will be sub-par. I read somewhere that someone had never met an INFJ that wasn't obsessed with the idea of "Soul mates" because we are so concerned with looking for "the one". To get past any problem one must first acknowledge it, and I believe that many INFJ's are not aware that it is even a problem that they have too high of ideals. I myself still haven't gotten past it; I still think "The one" is out there, but the likelyhood of us meeting is so very small... I believe I will work past it eventually (I guess its something you grow out of) but right now I'm still in idealist mode.
INFJ ideals and expectations
Hello Infj's.
There are many qualities about you that I admire and love. Right now I happen to be posting about one infj trait that confuses me, but don't think that I look down on you for it because we all have differing traits.
I've noticed that infj's have exceptionally high ideals when it comes to friendships and relationships of all kinds, including romantic relationships. As an infp, I would be lying if I said I don't have my own ideals, but what I've seen with infj's is that they truly expect others to live up to those ideals.
What I'm wondering is if the infj is ever aware of these expectations and ideals and how they affect their interactions. I've seen the good side and the bad side of this. The bad side led to me being declared "not good enough" in infj eyes. Is it something that changes as you mature, or is it always something you live out?
There are many qualities about you that I admire and love. Right now I happen to be posting about one infj trait that confuses me, but don't think that I look down on you for it because we all have differing traits.
I've noticed that infj's have exceptionally high ideals when it comes to friendships and relationships of all kinds, including romantic relationships. As an infp, I would be lying if I said I don't have my own ideals, but what I've seen with infj's is that they truly expect others to live up to those ideals.
What I'm wondering is if the infj is ever aware of these expectations and ideals and how they affect their interactions. I've seen the good side and the bad side of this. The bad side led to me being declared "not good enough" in infj eyes. Is it something that changes as you mature, or is it always something you live out?
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Oh this is something I feel bad about. I like to give a lot of "suggestions" to my significant other, which has often left him feeling a little insecure in the relationship. When I was younger, I didn't quite notice, or, rather, I didn't realize how horribly it caused strain on the relationship. Nowadays, I still can't help myself. I've always struggled with being idealistic, but trying hard to be realistic, and at the same time wondering "what is realistic?" But now I catch myself more when I feel I'm being too negative, and try to give more verbal affirmation (which isn't usually my love language) in attempts to balance everything out.
Every guy I was ever with before my husband was not my ideal but I made myself believe they were even though in the back of my mind I knew they weren't. I settled but I settled because of my loneliness and low self-esteem and maybe because I just wanted to believe they all were "the one" and I really convinced myself that they were. That's just me though. I imagine every INFJ will have different experiences in that area.
Oh and as far as friendships go, I'm gonna like you if you like me and aren't mean to me.
Oh and as far as friendships go, I'm gonna like you if you like me and aren't mean to me.
Well I, personally, grew into this state of having high ideals and expectations. I went from INTP to INFP to INFJ...
Oh, I'm aware of them all right. And I'm also aware that the optimistic idealism buoys me up, and then disappointment in those ideals not being reached sends me down. There's a negative side effect for you! Seriously, it is difficult to make friends, when so many people shatter my ideals, and therefore become people I do not desire to associate with.
I don't intend to relax my standards, though; I'd rather have one or two friends who I feel really good around, than many who make me uncomfortable and sad. I hold myself to high standards. I deserve to be around people who do the same for themselves.
Oh, I'm aware of them all right. And I'm also aware that the optimistic idealism buoys me up, and then disappointment in those ideals not being reached sends me down. There's a negative side effect for you! Seriously, it is difficult to make friends, when so many people shatter my ideals, and therefore become people I do not desire to associate with.
I don't intend to relax my standards, though; I'd rather have one or two friends who I feel really good around, than many who make me uncomfortable and sad. I hold myself to high standards. I deserve to be around people who do the same for themselves.
I have to feel secure, comfortable and understood or at least not misunderstood to the point of contempt, with my friends, and even more so with my partner. It's not that my expectations are high or my standards are unachievable.
It's just that I am not typical, and so most people don't know how to handle me.
I take matters of the heart very seriously.
Broken relationships DEVASTATE me. I am being selective for a reason, then.
I am certain an INFP would understand this.
On the other hand.. rarely have I encountered an INFP I would not consider for a relationship , either friends or more.
It's just that I am not typical, and so most people don't know how to handle me.
I take matters of the heart very seriously.
Broken relationships DEVASTATE me. I am being selective for a reason, then.
I am certain an INFP would understand this.
On the other hand.. rarely have I encountered an INFP I would not consider for a relationship , either friends or more.
I feel that way about INFJ's too. I completely love them, which is why I want to understand everything about them. This is one area that puzzles me though, and has hurt me in the past. I was with an INFJ who always seemed to expect something I couldn't live up to, even though the relationship was very intense and romantic. It just wasn't enough for her though in the end.I have to feel secure, comfortable and understood or at least not misunderstood to the point of contempt, with my friends, and even more so with my partner. It's not that my expectations are high or my standards are unachievable.
It's just that I am not typical, and so most people don't know how to handle me.
I take matters of the heart very seriously.
Broken relationships DEVASTATE me. I am being selective for a reason, then.
I am certain an INFP would understand this.
On the other hand.. rarely have I encountered an INFP I would not consider for a relationship , either friends or more.
INFJ friendship has been admittedly easier, since I haven't noticed the same level of expectation there (understandably), but there still is some. It isn't nearly as intense in the friendship though.
It's frustrating eh? I have been in a few romantic relationships with INFJs myself.I feel that way about INFJ's too. I completely love them, which is why I want to understand everything about them. This is one area that puzzles me though, and has hurt me in the past. I was with an INFJ who always seemed to expect something I couldn't live up to, even though the relationship was very intense and romantic. It just wasn't enough for her though in the end.
INFJ friendship has been admittedly easier, since I haven't noticed the same level of expectation there (understandably), but there still is some. It isn't nearly as intense in the friendship though.
I don't have an answer for you.
I have frustrated a few of my partners in life as well.
I should add that I've seen high expectations played out in infj friendships too, but not directly with me. So I suppose it can be intense in friendships too, depending on the friend and how close they are. In that case it led to pretty strong bitterness for the infj.
Also, I know that everybody (regardless of type) has expectations, but INFJ's seem much more direct and confident about it than other types.
Also, I know that everybody (regardless of type) has expectations, but INFJ's seem much more direct and confident about it than other types.
I think that there's nothing wrong with expecting another person to live up to your ideals or fulfill your expectations. Don't forget that our high expectations are constantly nagged upon by our concern for other's feelings .. therefore a typical INFJ thought process would go something like this:
"I really think she should do this for me" >>> "Hmm.. she doesn't really look too happy today" >> "I wonder if she needs any help" >> "Oh man, I had no idea she was in so much trouble" >>> "la dee daa .. help help help" >> "Oh well, now she's better, I hope she makes it up to me some day" >>> "I really think she should do this for me" >>> *repeat*
The exact same process is put in place when we want another person to live up to our ideals. We give so many chances (at least I do) to the other person that more often than not, I'm the one that gets hurt more.
This cycle repeats a few times, before finally the J kicks in after about 5 to 6 major chances for the expectations to get fulfilled. In some cases, this particular train of thought puts the INFJ in a position to sustain what is considered to be mental abuse by a neglectful friendship for several years before the walls finally come up.
It's hard to explain ... but most of the time, we pull up our walls to protect the other person from us .. rather than the other way round.
"I really think she should do this for me" >>> "Hmm.. she doesn't really look too happy today" >> "I wonder if she needs any help" >> "Oh man, I had no idea she was in so much trouble" >>> "la dee daa .. help help help" >> "Oh well, now she's better, I hope she makes it up to me some day" >>> "I really think she should do this for me" >>> *repeat*
The exact same process is put in place when we want another person to live up to our ideals. We give so many chances (at least I do) to the other person that more often than not, I'm the one that gets hurt more.
This cycle repeats a few times, before finally the J kicks in after about 5 to 6 major chances for the expectations to get fulfilled. In some cases, this particular train of thought puts the INFJ in a position to sustain what is considered to be mental abuse by a neglectful friendship for several years before the walls finally come up.
It's hard to explain ... but most of the time, we pull up our walls to protect the other person from us .. rather than the other way round.
Perhaps I'm just delusional and too opinionated for my own good, but I like to think that I am a good judge of not only character but also potential. With that in mind, I like to push, mold, and shape people into their better selves, which doesn't always end well. I've had close friends snap at me for overstepping my bounds by telling them how they should behave or how they should change their perspective, and I understand where the frustration comes from. However, that doesn't stop me from trying to "fix" and "improve" other people; I enjoy watching others grow and develop into more healthy, happy people.
Some people choose to fix household problems such as plumbing, electrical malfunctions, and damaged homes for a hobby. Others choose to learn about current technologies in order to improve quality of life. Others spend years in medical school for an accurate understanding of the human body and how to fix common and uncommon ailments and injuries. But as for me, I like to help people with emotional understanding and growth. But like all jobs and hobbies, some disagree with your methods and conclusions of work. Comes with the discipline, I suppose.
And honestly, sometimes I give up on certain people and move on. Are there people in -- and out -- of my life who have felt "not good enough"? Absolutely. Do they understand my reasonings? No. It's not about not living up to my standards; I just no longer have anything to offer.
Some people choose to fix household problems such as plumbing, electrical malfunctions, and damaged homes for a hobby. Others choose to learn about current technologies in order to improve quality of life. Others spend years in medical school for an accurate understanding of the human body and how to fix common and uncommon ailments and injuries. But as for me, I like to help people with emotional understanding and growth. But like all jobs and hobbies, some disagree with your methods and conclusions of work. Comes with the discipline, I suppose.
And honestly, sometimes I give up on certain people and move on. Are there people in -- and out -- of my life who have felt "not good enough"? Absolutely. Do they understand my reasonings? No. It's not about not living up to my standards; I just no longer have anything to offer.
An expectation is only as strong as it's context.
My expectations are only for others to be their best self. Problems arise because they think I'm trying to change them in a major way for my own selfish needs. I also give so many chances for this to happen, so I end up hurting more when I have to push them out of my life. I do this also for their own good, because trust me, it breaks my heart. But a lot of the time, they blossom into an improved version of themselves. I try not to do this too much, though. It's so hard to pretty much abandon people in their time of need. Maybe it's not right, but it has worked.
I'm starting to understand now....My expectations are only for others to be their best self. Problems arise because they think I'm trying to change them in a major way for my own selfish needs. I also give so many chances for this to happen, so I end up hurting more when I have to push them out of my life. I do this also for their own good, because trust me, it breaks my heart. But a lot of the time, they blossom into an improved version of themselves. I try not to do this too much, though. It's so hard to pretty much abandon people in their time of need. Maybe it's not right, but it has worked.
I used to, but it never really worked to my adavantage. It took personal growth and discovery to realize you can't expect someone to be someone they're not. Instead I've shifted the way i look at it because as an INFJ it's very important for me to have close relationships rather than a ton of acquantances. Instead when I do something deep and beautiful about a person I will easily open myself up to them to be close. If that doesnt happen I just let it be, I'm sure I come off as boring, quiet, not interested. but idc, thats their opinion and thats who they are, it doesnt fit in with who i am so I'm just gonna let it go. Even those i am closest with I do not expect things with because I find it a blessing just to have them around and have connected with them, I don't wanna do anything that could possibly ruin it. But it's taken alot of thinking and mulling things over and going through shitty situations to come to this realization, because when I was a teenger, i was terrible about it and it resulted in me not having any real friends in high school and alot of ppl not being too fond of me. I do think it's one of our biggest faults, overcoming it is maturing, and as I once read on this forum and never forgot, Maturity for an INFJ is being less reserved.
Sometimes I do set too high of expectations of people than is realistic or fair. My mother tells me this all the time. I have trouble finding the balance between expecting too much and accepting abuse/neglect. I've always had this problem. I do set high ideals in every area of my life and have a tendency to idealize people (then they inevitably let me down and we have a problem). I try to be aware of my ideals and expect less from others than I expect from myself.
Also, if you think we have high expectations for others, imagine what our expectations are for ourselves. People don't realize, but a lot of the time when someone is hard on others, they are brutal on themselves. I'm more forgiving of other peoples shortcomings than my own.I'm starting to understand now....
Can someone be specific about what is meant by "high standards"? I can't tell whether this trait doesn't apply to me or if I'm just not very aware of it. What would be a standard that is too high too meet?
Ahh the infamous INFJs and ideals thread!! Almost as popular as the doorslam thread, hahahahaha.Hello Infj's.
There are many qualities about you that I admire and love. Right now I happen to be posting about one infj trait that confuses me, but don't think that I look down on you for it because we all have differing traits.
I've noticed that infj's have exceptionally high ideals when it comes to friendships and relationships of all kinds, including romantic relationships. As an infp, I would be lying if I said I don't have my own ideals, but what I've seen with infj's is that they truly expect others to live up to those ideals.
What I'm wondering is if the infj is ever aware of these expectations and ideals and how they affect their interactions. I've seen the good side and the bad side of this. The bad side led to me being declared "not good enough" in infj eyes. Is it something that changes as you mature, or is it always something you live out?
I've become more aware of my ideals being outwardly shown. When I was younger, I never thought of it but people had let me know that my ideals were apparent and slightly taxing. It's an odd paradox for myself as I have my ideal standards yet I like people to be genuine. I don't want someone that's going to cater to my ideals and try to be that ideal. My Fe wants people to be relaxed and be themselves and be loved for it, yet my standards want something that my mind has idealized as being perfect and what I want.
In romantic relationships in the past I've struggled with my ideals and my partner because it's never matched up. When I'm head over heels for someone, it has taken a lot for me to kick them out of my ideal mind and not want to pursue them so it's a rarity. It's easy for my to see the good in people and it can be a pro and a con. No one is perfect and I know that, but when something isn't right and it breaks my ideal but I continue with it, if it's a consistent thing I will eventually get worn down (I am patient) and lose it, but if it's one of those things where it comes and goes I am fine.
I am much more aware of the pressures this causes on people and try not to mention things, but people pick up on it all the time for some reason. I think of myself as a very accepting individual that loves people for who they are so it's difficult for me to grasp that people will think I'm judging them.
INFJ's aren't the only ones with ideals. I have plenty myself, and you don't have to be a certain type to have standards. I suppose the way INFJ's express their ideals is distinct, and seems more all or nothing to me than other types.Ahh the infamous INFJs and ideals thread!! Almost as popular as the doorslam thread, hahahahaha.
I've become more aware of my ideals being outwardly shown. When I was younger, I never thought of it but people had let me know that my ideals were apparent and slightly taxing. It's an odd paradox for myself as I have my ideal standards yet I like people to be genuine. I don't want someone that's going to cater to my ideals and try to be that ideal. My Fe wants people to be relaxed and be themselves and be loved for it, yet my standards want something that my mind has idealized as being perfect and what I want.
In romantic relationships in the past I've struggled with my ideals and my partner because it's never matched up. When I'm head over heels for someone, it has taken a lot for me to kick them out of my ideal mind and not want to pursue them so it's a rarity. It's easy for my to see the good in people and it can be a pro and a con. No one is perfect and I know that, but when something isn't right and it breaks my ideal but I continue with it, if it's a consistent thing I will eventually get worn down (I am patient) and lose it, but if it's one of those things where it comes and goes I am fine.
I am much more aware of the pressures this causes on people and try not to mention things, but people pick up on it all the time for some reason. I think of myself as a very accepting individual that loves people for who they are so it's difficult for me to grasp that people will think I'm judging them.
I should've mentioned this before but just thought of it. You say you get worn down after awhile of having ideals and expectations unmet. I've noticed this with other INFJ's, but the thing is that to me it seems to come out of nowhere. I will have absolutely no idea that an INFJ feels this way inside, and then suddenly they're expressing how worn they are and how it built up over time. I wish there was a way to know that they're getting to that point.
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