Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
161 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello ENTPs,

So I must warn you, this is long. Apologies. I hope you can bear to read through it for the problem-solving buzz. I have no one else to turn to!

So I broke up with my ENTP boyfriend a couple of months ago, it was around mid February. I ended it because I felt like we just couldn't see eye to eye; his world view and mine clashed constantly and we were stuck in a terrible rut. We are both young fairly unhealthy, he being too narcissitic and extremely preoccupied by image, wealth and status (which drove me insane because at times it felt like I was living in American Psycho, no joke) and I being too depressive, prone to horrible cycles of melancholy which render me pretty much lifeless. Not a good match.

I tried to end it once last December, but he cried so hard (yes, he honestly cried!) that I felt unbelievably guilty and took him back, under the conditions that we'd be more honest and open with each other with the future. Nothing changed of course, and so I broke up with him for good in February. He was stunned and incapable of speaking to me at the time, but we met a week later and chatted about it and agreed it was for the best - we were both too busy and ambitious to focus on the relationship, and things hadn't been good for a while.

Since then, he has called me several times on random days, sometimes turning up at my door, usually at odd hours, and most often drunk. Stupidly I always let him in, thinking he's came to 'talk' and that we'll maybe tie up loose ends, as we obviously still have complex feelings for each other, and I think it helps to talk these things out rationally. However when we see each other, it's like we're both lost for words and we get really shy, and we end up just kissing really frustratedly. Then he usually falls asleep and leaves the next morning, and it's forgotten about. Until next time he calls.

Anyway, I hadn't heard from him for three weeks - the longest spell yet - and so I assumed he had found another girl. Long story short, I found this to be true - he's had another girl round for dinner and I believe they've slept together more than once.

But the worst part is: SHE LIVES IN THE FLAT RIGHT ABOVE ME. Her bedroom is literally directly above my own, and I can hear her music, her footsteps, sometimes her conversations. So god knows what I'd hear if he were to visit... :(

I'm trying not to be too mad because I understand that you can't help who you fall for, and I'm not sure whether he knew her address before he started talking to her.

In either case, the situation is fucked because last night, he called me around 5am after a night out. Again, stupidly, I let him in. I'll admit I was curious and hoped he'd have something interesting to say. But he kissed me everywhere and tried to sleep with me, I pushed him off and told him to go home. When he left he kissed me passionately, violently even, and since then has dropped me 2 text messages, one of those being around 5 minutes ago. Now I assume she is with him at the moment because upstairs is silent and she left the flat looking 'datey' (I looked through my peephole when I heard her coming down, creepy I know) so why is he texting me when he's with her?

More importantly:
WHY THE FUCK did he come to mine last night if he's seeing her?
If it was because he meant to call her and called me instead, then why didn't he jst hang up?
Why did he kiss me and hold me like everything was like it was and that he loved me?
Does this mean he's not over me and the girl upstairs is just a rebound? (If that's the case what do I do because I don't want to get back with him one bit!)
Just how serious is dinner and nights out, is that usually a sign you like someone a lot?

He doesn't know I know about the girl - I thought it best to keep quiet until I found more information. So I thought in a way it could be revenge for me breaking up with him? But how would it be revenge if he doesn't now I know? Did he simply expect me to find out? (Doubtful - the way I found out was a combination of small circumstances and overheard conversations in the stairwell which added up to an AHA moment; I have never spoken to the girl before and we have no mutual friends)

Do I confront him? Or let him continue seeing her, knowing that he could be right above me at any moment?


WHAT THE FUCK DO I DO SHE LIVES ABOVE ME!!!!!!
If they start dating, I'll hear everything! I'll be living in a state of constant anxiety knowing the boy I loved for 3 years is prowling around above me with another girl! I can't move because I just renewed my lease for another year. :(

Oh help, I'm so confused because I just don't know where I stand anymore, I don't know what he thinks of me and anytime I've asked him in the past he just pulls faces or cracks jokes. In truth, I don't even think HE knows what he feels about us, so asking him is futile as we end up stumbling over our own sentences and getting nowhere. It's hard to explain but we have a real communication problem - it's like we both put on an act when we get together, he acts like a jokey, arrogant, Jim Carey type, while I act like a shy little Disney princess who has no brain. It's odd because this is just not me at all, and yet everytime I'm with him I'm stumped for words, it's like the sight of him turns my brain to mush. Together it's like we're playing a game of happy couples, and that's why I ended it - it never felt real to me.

Anyone else experienced a similar type of INFJ - ENTP mode of communicating?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,191 Posts
Oh, dear god. That is a world of suck. Your choices are stark. Move, Undermine, Deal. None of them are good. Is there even a vague chance you're wrong?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
161 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Yep, exactly! It seems there's no way out of this situation! I absolutely love my flat and it's almost perfect, so to move would be awful, not to mention perhaps impossible since I've already renewed my lease and it's so hard to find a room here!

I just don't know whether I should speak to him about it or not though. The whole situation has thrown me.

And no, I'm 100% right, I looked at his facebook mails while he slept last night. (he brings his laptop everywhere) I'm not proud of that, it was wrong of me to invade his privacy. But it was only confirming what I already knew - I had to find out for sure as I was so convinced I my hunches were right and yet it seemed so preposterous that I had worked it out from a few conversations and noises in stairwell! At least I know I'm nto going crazy imagining things...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,191 Posts
Yep, exactly! It seems there's no way out of this situation! I absolutely love my flat and it's almost perfect, so to move would be awful, not to mention perhaps impossible since I've already renewed my lease and it's so hard to find a room here!

I just don't know whether I should speak to him about it or not though. The whole situation has thrown me.

And no, I'm 100% right, I looked at his facebook mails while he slept last night. (he brings his laptop everywhere) I'm not proud of that, it was wrong of me to invade his privacy. But it was only confirming what I already knew - I had to find out for sure as I was so convinced I my hunches were right and yet it seemed so preposterous that I had worked it out from a few conversations and noises in stairwell! At least I know I'm nto going crazy imagining things...
This is a confront situation. My guess is he'll deny, then when you present the information, prevaricate and act indignant about your snooping. The one time I had to deal with booty calls, I just ignored it, but I don't think I could deal with it upstairs from me.

Could try threatening a little with exposing it to the upstairs girl. Who knows at what stage they're in, though. If early, she gets creeped out by both of you, if late, you're the crazy ex.

I recommend buying a very loud fan for your room....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,214 Posts
How do you know he's an ENTP? NTs typically don't get hung up on relationships like that. No matter his type, he sounds like a playa and you need to drop him like a bad habit. I think you should go upstairs when you know she's home & he's not and introduce yourself. Also avoid him at all costs for at least a few months and if he calls or stops by ignore him and don't answer. Whether intentional or not he's just going to keep using you for as long as you give him the chance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,767 Posts
Yep, exactly! It seems there's no way out of this situation! I absolutely love my flat and it's almost perfect, so to move would be awful, not to mention perhaps impossible since I've already renewed my lease and it's so hard to find a room here!

I just don't know whether I should speak to him about it or not though. The whole situation has thrown me.

And no, I'm 100% right, I looked at his facebook mails while he slept last night. (he brings his laptop everywhere) I'm not proud of that, it was wrong of me to invade his privacy. But it was only confirming what I already knew - I had to find out for sure as I was so convinced I my hunches were right and yet it seemed so preposterous that I had worked it out from a few conversations and noises in stairwell! At least I know I'm nto going crazy imagining things...
Speak to him about it, that's the best option you have and analyze everything he says looking past the charm and humor. Don't act irrational, which I presume you wouldn't, but checking his stuff without his knowing just leads me to believe there is a possibility that you could show irrational behavior. When you speak to him, be calm, direct, and put out all the points you have that's making you think he is seeing that girl.

Now why he is still texting you is obvious I think, I believe he still has feelings for you. Your responses, and letting him stay over some nights occasionally having those minor hookups let's him know that the feelings are mutual but he he doesn't want to badger you about being together I'm assuming. Also he has probably adapted to what the situation is between you two while having an underlying motive or strategy to get you back by keeping you interested (not being so distant but not constantly keeping contact).

The girl upstairs situation, if, or when it comes out to be true will be a difficult situation. I personally don't think they are or will be serious because three years with you is a long time, more than enough time to respect you and the relationship you two had. He either is trying to get you jealous because he's impatient and doesn't want to wait any longer so he decides to indirectly catch your attention sending basically a threat that says "you could possibly lose me if I still have to wait". He could've met her and eventually found out afterwards that she lives there, but I don't see why he would make it obvious enough for you to notice it if that was the case especially after your "passionate, violent make out" session. I'll go with the indirect attention grabbing threat through making ex jealous option if I had to choose between the potential motives.

All in all, that relationship with the girl from upstairs he may or may not have is temporary if it even exist. You should talk to him about it instead of sneaking around. The direct approach is more ENTP friendly anyways. Hopefully you get through this with the least amount of heart break.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,767 Posts
How do you know he's an ENTP? NTs typically don't get hung up on relationships like that...
Unless they have been with the person for a while (3 years etc.) and does love them while having, an underdeveloped Fe, and an Si that comes out in depressing ways such as missing the good times they spent together. Probably comes out every so often hence the random contacts he starts with her. The three week break of not talking to him probably shows he was busy with something new (the girl from upstairs). The latest time he got into contact with her is probably the Si showing its face again sadly and reminding him or his Fe that he still misses her. He probably is just having trouble with the break up due to an underdeveloped Fe and the devil Si. That's my thoughts though, he could be another type too, so could the OP, but we would have to know them more than what we already know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
161 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
You should talk to him about it instead of sneaking around. The direct approach is more ENTP friendly anyways.
First of all, thank you, your advice has been really helpful.

I know I WANT to talk to him, I just don't know what good it would do, because of our communication problems in the past. I don't think either of us really knows what's going on, and to be honest I'm not even sure what to ask him: what do I say? I know you're fucking the girl upstairs? Since we're no longer official there's technically nothing I can do about it if it's what he wants to do.

I spoke to my Dad (he's a counsellor) and he was adamant that I drop it and stay silent. He said I should just ignore him and let time fizzle everything out between him and I, while allowing him to make sense of the girl upstairs situation. He said that by talking to him, I put myself in a very vulnerable position because I'm letting down all my boundaries. My friends agree. I don't really understand what they mean but I realise my judgement might just be clouded by my emotions right now.

The problem is, he's continuing to contact me. We exchanged texts last night - just chatter, funny stuff, I've not let on that I'm upset - and he e-mailed me with funny images today - again just light-hearted, friendly stuff. I hate ignoring him because I so desperately want to speak to him but I understand that by continuing to respond to his texts/calls/visits I'm dragging this whole thing out.

So, the pressing question at the moment is: do I go talk to him, rationally, ask him what he really thinks about us, what's really going on with the girl upstairs, will I have to try and move flat? Or do I just leave him to it and block him completely out my life? (causing me excruciating inner torment but probably doing what's best)
 

·
Spotlight March 2016
Joined
·
8,193 Posts
He sounds unstable, and an unreasonable romantic choice. I don't think it matters what he thinks about you both-- You need to get rid of him, and wash him out like a stain. Write a letter to him, if you'd like:

''Dear A,

If you're romantically involved with B, keep them at your place and not anywhere near me. If you're not, awesome.

Have a nice life,

C''

The point is, he's causing you a lot of unnecessary pain, and he clearly has some maturing to do. You can't trust him.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,780 Posts
I like the overall advice of @Word Dispenser, but keep in mind that you can't dictate his locations. I think the best way to move forward from this situation is consistency. He probably recognizes you and where live as safe havens for himself that he otherwise would not have. It has been a constant source of consistency for an extended period of time that it appears he doesn't want to give up. Take it from him. By sating this desire of his, you are only reinforcing that your flat and you are safe to him. Make it unsafe. Completely and totally eject him from your life. Delete his phone number, don't answer his texts, don't answer his phone calls, etc. Lock your door when you're at home, use your peephole to check to see it's him before you answer the door for anyone. Basically, erase his existence from your own mind, and treat him like a stranger who is not welcome.

Not only is your flat your home, but so is your mind. In removing him and barring him entrance into either, not only do you not have to deal with him, you also send a clear message that you are not a safe place for him to reside.
@affezwilling Under normal circumstances where an ENTP is well-rounded and healthy I would agree with this statement, but I think it's clear that this particular individual is not healthy and is somewhat narcissistic. Given that, I would say that this behavior is plausible. Inferior Si can give an ENTP a sense of safeness in certain familiar places, and I think that's what's going on here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
161 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Not only is your flat your home, but so is your mind. In removing him and barring him entrance into either, not only do you not have to deal with him, you also send a clear message that you are not a safe place for him to reside.
Thank you, everything you said makes a lot of sense, particularly regarding the idea of a 'safe place'. I think that is a big reason why we rarely even talk when we do see each other; it's that safety of the familiar body and face and room that we crave, and so the few times I have let him in have basically just been physical stuff and then falling asleep together. If we do talk it's usually just discussing his latest project or college work. He almost never asks me anything about myself, nor do I feel comfortable sharing things about myself without him asking - another crucial reason for me breaking up with him in the first place.

He cannot bear to be alone - ever - and constantly surrounds himself with people 24/7. I think one of the hardest things for him has been going to bed alone at night, and so I reckon a great deal of his attraction to this girl upstairs is in the fact that she is younger, eager and willing. Despite his extroversion he's actually quite shy, which I believe is one of the reasons why he tends to fall for 'fragile' girls like myself, and most likely the girl upstairs, as the 'weaker' girls are far easier to wrap around his finger; far more likley to fall for his bullshit and drop all plans to hang out with him whenever he asks.

So yeah, I think upstairs girl is simply a way of filling space in the bed. Nevertheless, this is exactly how our relationship started (a series of one night stands then dates until we grew accustomed to each other were seeing each other every night) and so I fear that it will in fact continue for a long time. He's the kind of person that seems to judge people in accordance to their 'purpose', and thus he'll stick with her as long as she fulfills that purpose, which is probably to be his cute, pretty, happy and light-hearted girl to sleep with whenever he likes. Sound familiar to any ENTP's?

Which means, I think the possibilities of this being a long term thing are highly probable, and unfortunately that means a year of constant reminders for me, which makes it much harder to delete him from my life :(

Also, I deduced he's cooked her dinner and is going on a date with her this weekend - I take it they're usually signs an ENTP is into you? He wouldn't make the effort if he wasn't interested, right?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,780 Posts
Which means, I think the possibilities of this being a long term thing are highly probable, and unfortunately that means a year of constant reminders for me, which makes it much harder to delete him from my life :(

Also, I deduced he's cooked her dinner and is going on a date with her this weekend - I take it they're usually signs an ENTP is into you? He wouldn't make the effort if he wasn't interested, right?
Don't think like this. He is out of your life, remember?

If you constantly look back, you will see him. If you look forwards without regards for him, he simply is not there. This is all about the attitude you take moving forward. I would say that dwelling on his motivations and intentions with this other girl would be folly. None of that is relevant, and dwelling on it will only hold you back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
161 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Don't think like this. He is out of your life, remember?

If you constantly look back, you will see him. If you look forwards without regards for him, he simply is not there. This is all about the attitude you take moving forward. I would say that dwelling on his motivations and intentions with this other girl would be folly. None of that is relevant, and dwelling on it will only hold you back.
Very true. You're right of course. I'm not jealous though, I'm happy he's found someone else, I just wish it wasn't going on right above me! I guess I'm just trying to estimate the possible time period this relationship may take up, so that I can decide whether or not to contact my landlord about the possibility of moving. But to be honest, there's no way I - nor even HE - can guess the outcome of their relationship, so I'm just going to have to live with it, forget and move on, or move out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,780 Posts
Maybe I am over-simplifying to an extreme here but I see a VERY easy solution.

Quit making out with him and letting him in to your place? I mean I see the problem, but I don't really see the problem. If you are THAT uncomfortable with their relationship (which it doesn't sound like you are) then the only solution is to move or suck it up. If you still want this guy in your life (and I can't imagine why you would) then make sure in person meetings are restricted to public locations and texts are kept at an acceptably friendly level.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,767 Posts
First of all, thank you, your advice has been really helpful.

I spoke to my Dad (he's a counsellor) and he was adamant that I drop it and stay silent. He said I should just ignore him and let time fizzle everything out between him and I, while allowing him to make sense of the girl upstairs situation. He said that by talking to him, I put myself in a very vulnerable position because I'm letting down all my boundaries. My friends agree. I don't really understand what they mean but I realise my judgement might just be clouded by my emotions right now.

So, the pressing question at the moment is: do I go talk to him, rationally, ask him what he really thinks about us, what's really going on with the girl upstairs, will I have to try and move flat? Or do I just leave him to it and block him completely out my life? (causing me excruciating inner torment but probably doing what's best)
No problem, glad I could.

It's hard to really answer your question because each decision you make will have a negative impact on you. You could cut him off and give him time, but you still have to deal with the upstairs situation. You could continue talking and hanging out with him, but you will stay vulnerable to getting hurt if you do. My answer though is to accept that there will be pain coming out of this no matter what and making a decision where you can protect yourself from getting hurt in the least painful way. Keep him at a distance emotionally if possible, take some time away from him and the situation, change your perspective around a few times on what is going on. Let him live his life, don't play into his game. You really are in a bad situation, but before anything at least try to talk to him directly about your concerns then decide on what you think is best for your emotional health depending on his reaction and answers.

Since I can't really give you an answer that will help you avoid getting hurt completely, I'll just give you a quick story. Recently, I was in a relationship and for six months I lived with her, it was a great time except for a few occasions, those few occasions ruined the relationship and I was for the first time in my life put into a situation where I couldn't find the loophole out. Extreme pain was inevitable especially due to my "not as developed Fe". My only rational option was to accept and embrace the pain, I turned it into a challenge of time. Two weeks ago is when I fully got over everything but I'm happy it all happened because it was one, if not my greatest learning experience. It was the first time in my life I completely dealt with emotional pain head on without escaping it and what happened was I eventually adapted and grew from it. For myself, emotional pain was a huge weakness I knew I had to overcome eventually but I always found a way out before and closed myself off, but this time I was forced to live through it.

I love to compare and contrast somewhat similar situations and learn from all of them, so hopefully you can find something meaningful out of my personal experience. I know everyone's situation no matter how similar has the things that make them different, but answers can be found comparing situations. No matter what happens time really does heal all wounds. Stay strong and don't let the emotions cloud your judgment, step away from the situation and look at it from as many different perspectives as possible. Sorry for rambling (adderall is to blame).

Btw, I think you may be headed to a Dominant-tertiary loop direction, try avoiding that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
161 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Maybe I am over-simplifying to an extreme here but I see a VERY easy solution.

Quit making out with him and letting him in to your place? I mean I see the problem, but I don't really see the problem. If you are THAT uncomfortable with their relationship (which it doesn't sound like you are) then the only solution is to move or suck it up. If you still want this guy in your life (and I can't imagine why you would) then make sure in person meetings are restricted to public locations and texts are kept at an acceptably friendly level.
Haha, thank you for the directness of your answer, it helps to see the situation written out like that. Of course, that is the solution. It's just my pesky emotions getting in the way! Now that I know she's above me, the sound of her movements are labelled and I notice them all the time. I'm just scared that I'll be living in a constant state of anxiety wondering whether he is currently right above my head at that very moment! Because everytime he comes he brings back all the old feelings of pain and a kind of weird embarrassing passion. I do still have feelings for him, but I know that there is no chance of the relationship ever working, so in a warped sense I enjoy our rendezvous, as they give me the part of him that I crave without all the baggage, which is probably how he sees it too. But yeah, you're right, it has to stop. It's not fair on him or I, and I can't handle the emotional disarray that follows every time he shows up in my life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
161 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Not rambling at all, again your answer has been really insightful. I agree that hearing other people's experiences can strengthen you in a bad situation. It's comforting to know that the emotional pain does disappear, because when you're in the throes of it you feel like it will never go away :(

Btw, I think you may be headed to a Dominant-tertiary loop direction, try avoiding that.
I'd actually never explored function-loops before you mentioned that, but I just checked out this post http://personalitycafe.com/articles...ry-loops-common-personality-disorders.htmland the description of the ENTP loop sounds uncannily like how he acted during our relationship:

ENTP/ESFJ: Ne/Fe or Fe/Ne--Narcissistic Personality Disorder. This type often behaves impulsively and manipulatively, needing constant approval and admiration from others, running around investing in new thing after new thing but never developing the self-confidence of a strong subjective perspective. Fe used negatively may use its awareness of the cultural standards of others to intentionally offend or upset them, in order to service Ne's curiosity about the patterns in their responses. If Ti/Si were working properly, it would give the user a balancing sense of personal, subjective importance and free him of his dependence upon the adulation and unconditional acceptance of others. (Horrible example: Patrick Bateman from American Psycho.)

Hahah, I always identified him with Bateman! Scarily accurate.

And you could be right about the Ni/Ti loop, sounds similar to the sort of depressive 'hazes' I often experience wherein I lose all regard for the outside world and fail to tend to my own needs. Interesting stuff...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,767 Posts
Not rambling at all, again your answer has been really insightful. I agree that hearing other people's experiences can strengthen you in a bad situation. It's comforting to know that the emotional pain does disappear, because when you're in the throes of it you feel like it will never go away :(

I'd actually never explored function-loops before you mentioned that

And you could be right about the Ni/Ti loop, sounds similar to the sort of depressive 'hazes' I often experience wherein I lose all regard for the outside world and fail to tend to my own needs. Interesting stuff...
That's the biggest problem with emotional pain, it puts on an illusion tricking you into believing that it will last for eternity. It's just your mind fearing the worse. Its funny how the human system attacks it's self when unhealthy which in turn creates the downward spiral of negativity. Time is the ultimate cure for such mishaps within your own mind.

Well good thing I showed you something new. If you are really interested in the theory of personality types than I suggest studying up on cognitive functions. Not just the descriptions though, go beyond that and study how functions would potentially play out in certain situations. Study the function loops, and apply everything you learn to real life, every day situations to prove or disprove theories you read and thought up yourself. Mbti is just the basics, it just shows you the categories. It shows how the majority of each group on an average day, mood, and state of mind would most likely look like if you were looking at them. Most people just stop there and make a judgement call, which is bad I think. There are 8 functions and how they interract with eachother or the depth and potential each function has, depending where in the equation it's located is truly an amazing subject to study.

Let me stop and not push the thread from its purpose, but like I said if it interests you, study it as in depth as it can go. It'll help answer many questions you may have had throughout your life.
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top