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Discussion Starter #1
Where do I begin? *sigh*

28 y/o INFJ FTM here...and I think I've fallen for a 21 y/o female ENFP. I've tried and tried and TRIED to avoid it. I was in a 4 year relationship with an ESxx who completely stomped on my heart and ended worse than I could have ever imagined. I dated a 36 y/o female ENTP for about 6 months I guess as a rebound because she was someone who was interested and interesting. I kinda let it go on too long because I found her pretty scatterbrained and frankly, I wasn't physically attracted to her. It was just nice to be close to someone.

It's been about 6 months since that ended and 5 months since I met this ENFP. I met her through my best friend (ISFJ) who graduated high school with her.

Setting the scene:

My bestie's 21st b-day bar hop. I work at 2:30am so this is basically breakfast time for me. I see this smoking hot red head making eyes at me. I'm sober. She's had a few. She sends her bf away several times so she can talk to me. She just has to tell me that "she's attracted to me". I tell her the feeling's mutual, I appreciate the compliment but I don't get involved in anyone else's relationship.

I'm high on her compliment for a few days. We don't speak again until I notice her facebook relationship status changes to "single". Soon after she messages me her number asking me to text her + ":)"

So it begins.

Some of the best conversations I've ever had are with her. We've had dinner a handful of times since then. We went to an amusement park together. A whole day of standing in lines and I didn't even care if I got on a coaster - we never ran out of things to discuss. That night we stopped in a field in the middle of nowhere to look at the stars. Saw six shooting stars! It was all I could do to not put my arms around her because I'm so afraid of fucking something up.

*sigh*

I told her that after the fact. She says my self control is impressive. Damn me..

We text here and there pretty much daily. Come to find out as of recently she's still sleeping with her ex because he's a good lay. I don't care if someone's doing that but the other person ought to know where they stand. I try to put it out of my mind. She's her own person. And she's young and still has a lot to experience.

Two weeks ago, I invited her over for dinner. We take a walk, I make an awesome pot roast, we have a couple drinks We walk to my good (ENTJ) friend's burlesque show which my ENFP has never been to before. She loves it. We kinda sit in the back where I prefer to people watch and have good conversation. I get enough liquid courage to throw part of my conscience out the window and I kiss her. She tells my she's been dying to kiss me for months. We pretty much spend the rest of the evening engulfed in each other, kissing, holding hands. She stays over, I lend her a spare toothbrush and some shorts to wear to bed. We made out for HOURS and her kisses were PERFECT. She drunkenly wanted to take things further and I resisted telling her I wasn't going to cheapen the experience by turning it into a drunken impulse. Besides, I have a hard time separating sex and love with someone I care about. She deserves better because she's special.

I told her that the next day after she calls me to tell me her feelings and I practically write her a dissertation about my fears and how much she means to me. We hold no secrets from each other.

Here's something to throw everything off course:

Last week we get into some words because I think she's stringing her loser ex along because he doesn't know where he stands. She loves him but she's not in love with him but he's still sleeping with her and leeching off of her and her mother, with whom she's living with for a couple weeks in between leases. The ex is a very talented photographer, nice guy but not motivated enough to get a job or even his own place. Her mom threatens to kick them all out and I don't blame her one bit.

The kicker:

After a night of harsh words that end angry but caring, I get a drunk text saying that my ENFP still thinks I'm wonderful for caring and she still wants to see me. I'm still peeved a bit. I'm at work so I save my response for later. Toward the end of my shift I get a call and a voicemail from my ENFP. She says her mom passed away (from Lupus, which she's had for several years) overnight and they found her in her bed that morning. I bite my pride (Obviously. The poor girl's hurting) and I call her. She explains, cries, mumbles. My heart is in shambles for her. I let her know she can count on me for whatever she needs. She asks me to tell our mutual friend, the ISFJ. Done and done. I give her distance because of family in town, loser ex lingering, etc, but I text or leave voicemails a couple times expressing my concern and willingness to help. Needless to say it was a long weekend of me worrying for her and being unable to wrap my arms around her while she cries.

Monday was the viewing. I never met her mom but my ENFP tells me that one of the last conversations with her mom was about me and how her mom wanted to meet me because I sounded like a "really wonderful person". I hung around for the first two hours for moral support not knowing a single person except for my ENFP and the ex. I had a hard time being there anyway because of my concern for her and the fact that April of last year, my family took my grandpa who raised me off life support - I knew exactly what she was feeling by losing a parent due to a prolonged illness.

She made her rounds with visitors. I continued to have sympathy pains for her like I had all weekend (nausea, restlessness, fatigue, that watery taste in your mouth just before you puke). Her little sister introduced herself to me. I met the father and a couple cousins but I pretty much remained a wallflower as I like to be.

After the first two hours, they broke for dinner. The family headed to their cars, the ex came out. I observed the gestures between her and the ex which proved to me she was honest about her old relationship being over on her end. A bit of relief for me. He heads to the car. An INFJ/ENFP hug - simply awesome. We banter a bit and she thanks me for supporting her. She just has to mention that she really wants to kiss me again but can't because it might look shady to the family. I suspect they, too, think she and the ex are still together.

*sigh*

This girl has issues like any other person of any type. I just wish she were 2 or 3 years older with some more life experience under her belt. Her philosophies on life are so in tune with mine but we go about it in different ways. The hangover with the ex is precisely the reason I'm so apprehensive to get too closely involved.

*heavy sigh*

But I'm also afraid to pass up on an opportunity with a possible soulmate, no matter how different our junctures in life.

I think she feels the same way about me. I can see it in her eyes and her face and I can feel it in our connection.

What do I do? I'm high on this girl.
 

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That's not many years apart in my opinion. She likes you from what I gather and If you love her It will work out someway. so keep your chin up and have hope for a better future.
 

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ENFP's go through the school of hard knocks alot of times and don't fully mature until after a while. Although that life experience of loosing her mother can add some depth there. Just proceed with caution and I wouldn't take it to the next level of messing around with her or sleeping with her. Sex can inflate a situation beyond what it really is alot of times I've noticed. She sounds like she's hurting and going through a tough time in her life and support from someone is nice. You just need to make sure that she is genuine and not just needy you know? Time will tell so give it time and don't share things if you don't feel comfortable opening up just yet on certain matters; ENFP's are drawn to that anyways so just be yourself and be cautious. Enjoy it man there is nothing like having a possibility of a soulmate! Best of wishes for you :)
 

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The only part that bothers me is how quickly she dumped her old squeeze for you. I've had it happen myself- a seemingly wonderful girl dropped her boyfriend to chase me. After she finished tearing down my guard she was off on the arm of another man... She got what she wanted from me and moved on, just like the chump before me.

Other than that, it sounds like it holds water. Confidence will see you through on this one.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
She didn'r drop her guy for me. They had been together for 2 years alread. My ENFP had confided in my ISFJ that he threatened her autonomy and she lost part of her identity with him. Our ISFJ encouraged me to "rescue" her which I actually avoided. I've been squeezed out of a relationship before and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I didn't initiate any contact with ENFP except a facebook friend request until she was single. I believe in honesty, not underhandedness.
 

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My $0.02: Go for it.

There's obviously a pretty damn neat connection, and you have everything to gain from that.

Just remember: trust, patience, and understanding. Reassure her and tell her you'll stay with her, or, if it's really that strong, that you'll wait for her if there's an issue with life experience and maturity, and don't stop believing.

I've been on the reverse side of something like this.
 

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Love conquers all... sometimes even caution.

I think you'd be kicking yourself if you didn't see this one through... So give it your best shot.
 

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She didn'r drop her guy for me. They had been together for 2 years alread. My ENFP had confided in my ISFJ that he threatened her autonomy and she lost part of her identity with him. Our ISFJ encouraged me to "rescue" her which I actually avoided. I've been squeezed out of a relationship before and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I didn't initiate any contact with ENFP except a facebook friend request until she was single. I believe in honesty, not underhandedness.
I do apologize, it wasn't my intention to offend. I wasn't accusing you of underhandedness.

You sound like you've got a good head on your shoulders. I wouldn't worry too much.
 

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I wonder what you want exactly? Judging by the way you talk about her it seems you have, on a emotional level, already decided to take the plunge with this girl. I can understand how you feel because I've been in pretty much the same situation. Right now I'm thanking God I didn't take the bait and, because of that, was able to marry a genuinely good girl instead.

Here's a major issue I see:

Come to find out as of recently she's still sleeping with her ex because he's a good lay. I don't care if someone's doing that but the other person ought to know where they stand.
What makes you think she will make an exception for you when things go awry? Think long and hard if you truly expect her to handle things differently in case you ever break up with her. Especially because...

I have a hard time separating sex and love with someone I care about.
So do I. And I would feel pretty damn angry (understatement of the century) if my wife started sleeping with her hypothetical new boyfriend, and doing that while not even informing me our marriage is over. From my (and possibly your future) point of view that would be cheating. Could you take that hit, emotionally?

My advice; don't go there. From the way you describe her she seems like the type of girl who's a lot of 'fun', but is only interested in fulfilling her own emotional needs without caring who she will hurt in the process.
 
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The only part that bothers me is how quickly she dumped her old squeeze for you. I've had it happen myself- a seemingly wonderful girl dropped her boyfriend to chase me. After she finished tearing down my guard she was off on the arm of another man... She got what she wanted from me and moved on, just like the chump before me.

Other than that, it sounds like it holds water. Confidence will see you through on this one.
ExxPs do that kind of thing. Isn't savory to us INFJs but their feelings work in different manner from how they work in us. We're like the feeling heavyweights - feeling waters run deep, slow to develop, slow to attach, slow to detach. For them it is more like a rollercoaster with its highs and lows, feelings are more short-lived and can be very intense. Good thing is that they are also very expressive of what they feel, so while you can't be sure if it is an up or a down coming next, at least you know for sure what she is feeling right now.

A while ago there was this ENTP guy who dumped his girlfriend one day, then next day he tells me that he is very interested in me. I was surprised (we only talked like 3 times?), but decided I didn't like him very much and rejected him. He became very angry, had an angry outbreak that I only heard about from some other people who knew him, and then about 4 weeks later he already had a new girlfriend. I didn't quite like how fast he goes through people but at the same time I know he isn't me, and expecting his feelings to operate like mine isn't realistic. He at least had the balls to break up with his girlfriend before going after other girls, unlike the multitudes of some other guys and girls out there who cheat (I thin statistics is that 50% of people have ever cheated in their life, which is very high) and this is admirable.

This girl has issues like any other person of any type. I just wish she were 2 or 3 years older with some more life experience under her belt. Her philosophies on life are so in tune with mine but we go about it in different ways. The hangover with the ex is precisely the reason I'm so apprehensive to get too closely involved.
ENFPs and ENTPs like keeping their future options open as per their dominant Ne. They will consciously deny it but subconsciously it is a big fear for them to be tied to one option. Problem is that this approach in relationships can really hurt them and the people they love. This particular girl hasn't gone through life experiences to obtain a solid understanding of this. She needs to grow some more backbone and learn to identify where she stands as a person. You can potentially help her learn this, but do understand that getting into a relationship with her is risky at this point because she doesn't know what she wants, has problems saying 'no', standing her own ground, and cutting toxic people like her ex out of her life, and she is lacking in boundaries and her communication skills need some work.

Btw the way the above ENTP guy was able to commit to one option is basically telling his friends all about his personal life and decisions he is making. This way there was reinforcement from outside for him to keep his course and commit to one option rather than keep playing around with several different girls.

...An INFJ/ENFP hug - simply awesome. ...
indeed, they are the best :crazy:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
That's precisely why I'm willing to be patient with her. I think life experience has yet to show her some perspective of what it's like to string a heart along as she's doing to her ex. And it scares me.

I was married for just over a year, together for 4 total, when I found out my wife was in love with someone else. I would have much preferred her to tell me at the onslot instead of sneaking around for months waiting for me to find out.

Relationships scare the shit out of me now because so many people don't want to take responsibility for their actions. They want to cover it up and avoid confrontation. I HATE confrontation...but I also know the truth hurts less in the present than it does in the future.

My ENPF, I suspect, is sleeping with her ex because it's convenient and it's comfortable. She says it's not what she wants but I don't think she knows better yet. I trust her actions more than her words. I've seen and heard both.

I think I'll have to wait and see. She's my mindfuck right now. I can't protect her like I want to. She needs to learn to pick herself up when she falls down.

Btw, she and I also had a discussion about a possible relationship. It seems we both want one but we're both distancing ourselves a little because we understand how we would affect each other. Neither one of us wants to hurt the other one.
 

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...But I'm also afraid to pass up on an opportunity with a possible soulmate, no matter how different our junctures in life.

I think she feels the same way about me. I can see it in her eyes and her face and I can feel it in our connection.

What do I do? I'm high on this girl.
Sage,

Nice name btw. Is that Sage as in the herb, or Sagittarius? You seem really cute, you don't look 28.

Anyhow, These are lovely thoughts. I am going to say something here, that may make me less popular with Idealist males, however it will be said. I don't care who she is; the odds are a 21 year old girl is not ready for a serious relationship -- AND of course you are high on this girl, to most men girls under 25 are like CANDY.

There could be a connection for sure. If you really want to go ahead on this, and give it a try. Then befriend her, and take it slow for sure. But get yourself ready, once she hits that 23 year old mark, she will likely change, and want to be free of you (possibility) as she matures and determines what kind of man she wants. By default sometimes desire for 'change' has her move away from the men of her past / current and are you ready for that? Her growing up I mean?

Perhaps also assess her goals in life, and your goals in life. My sister actually is going through this at work. She has friend, a young girl of 21, dating her other friend who is 31. She is gorgeous, he is smitten. Seeing them together, I actually think they are a good pair and it will work out, because of her personality...No doubt, sometimes it does! If you two are meant to be, then let it be so. As the older person with more experience, you may want to take a look at your goals, and hers, and see if it is realistic.

I'm not going to tell you no, because I have a slight romantic bone in my body, and will never look away from a love story in action! However the odds are against this working. I imagine you are wanting to get married soon, at 28? Talk to your friends and family, bring her around, see how they react, do they think she is good for you? I mean at my sisters work place, the new couple are starry-eye'd romantics, and they are clingy on each other. But his friends think she is a child, not a woman, and honestly roll their eyes at her immaturity.

They are however, both Europeans in culture, and seem to want something serious right away, so why not. He introduced her to his family right away, and they like her. Some guys don't desire older women or same age, and will come up with every problem when in relationships with those sorts of women. Which is fine, as long as they know what they are getting into.

Well I don't know you much to say otherwise, but from what I am reading here, it doesn't seem like you have anything substantial yet to go on, other than a connection. People can connect with many people, it doesn't mean it is right. But you are INFJ male, your intuition is likely good, use it, and make it happen, or leave it alone...but, don't forget to tell us what happens!

I agree with SLN here, totally! He's the man! hehehe. And now happily married, congrats! But from what I've read honestly, and the fact that you cannot separate sex from love, there may be an issue and hurt down the road for you, should you have to let her go. This could be because she may need space to explore the world, or also if she finds another man. If it is meant to be, it will be regardless of circumstances as per destiny. You have to assess her personality, she will be the factor that makes or breaks the outcome you desire.

If you want to have fun and see how it goes, start dating her. But in the meantime, as you are in your prime, don't let her distract you also, from finding the woman of your dreams. I find 28-35 year old males, starting to get serious about finding life partners, so the types of ladies they dated when they were young, aren't the ones they are looking to marry. Also this includes refraining from short term affairs with the incorrect women (not saying she is). If you desire some short term affair, or want to have some needs fulfilled, then be responsible about it, and guard your heart. Not every girl you connect with has to be 'the one'..but I don't know how you see partnerships or what you are looking for, so this comment may not be useful to you...Best of luck - and don't forget to report to us!
 

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I just wish she were 2 or 3 years older with some more life experience under her belt.
In 2 or 3 years, she will be. Ain't that convenient for ya?

Also, the completely arbitrary social norm for determining valid mates, with regards to age, is 'half your age plus seven', which in your case would be 21. Well howaboutthat.

The more legally-bound social norm is that she has to be over 18. Lucky you.

Also, the super-sappy not-quote-a-norm-but-I'mma-quote-it-anyway is 'love knows no bounds.' Except that 'over 18' thing. That's a very tangible bound. But she is!

Go for it.
 
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