INFJ married to an ESTJ? How to make it work...

It's interesting that you perhaps didn't notice some of these now undesirable tendencies before you gave birth. Or perhaps you did notice, and for whatever reason you are now more sensitive to his actions, and have more reason to believe something is wrong. I'm wondering if for a while sex held together the relationship, as he doesn't seem interested in deep conversations, I'm wondering if he ever did. If all has changed, then something happened, or is happening that has caused him to lose respect for you in a sense.

Perhaps he has gotten use to you being upset and really being non confrontational or enforcer like, like what he may respect. I see him as an unemotional soldier or cop (enforcer), who gives respect to other cops or officers that tell him what to do or assert some sort of power. The nurse for example told him to leave if he wants to, as if he took it as an order. Perhaps he tells people what to do on the outside world, but when he comes home he needs you to tell him what to do.

While some of his tendencies seem to be ESTJ I think most of it seems to point to him not being in love with you. No matter their personality type if he loved you he wouldn't leave you outright in the birthing room. Usually ESTJ are solid dependable rocks who do the right thing in a relationship FOR the good of the family. Yeah they may have trouble talking emotions but if they love you, you will most definelty feel their emotion.

TreeBob said:

While some of his tendencies seem to be ESTJ I think most of it seems to point to him not being in love with you. No matter their personality type if he loved you he wouldn't leave you outright in the birthing room. Usually ESTJ are solid dependable rocks who do the right thing in a relationship FOR the good of the family. Yeah they may have trouble talking emotions but if they love you, you will most definelty feel their emotion.

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I agree with Treebob...
And if you mentioned that you weren't sure if the marriage was going to work out, and you get a "mmhmm" response. That's never a good sign, regardless of personality types. Since I'm pretty sure you're not the type to throw in the towel quickly, maybe seek out a marriage counselor for the both of you?

First off, congratulations on the birth of your child!

I can relate as I'm married to an ISTJ, so you are not alone! There are times when my wife has me banging my head against the wall in sheer bewilderment. I think some of us can relate when I say, "Reading in between the lines? All I see is space!"

I have tried to bridge the gap by actively communicating more in concrete terms, and relaxing my expectations that she should intuitively know what I'm thinking. It's just how they are wired I suppose...

Irregardless, I'm not sure if there is an excuse for his behaviour. Could there be an issue with him becoming a dad?

Good luck, and stay strong! We're all in this together.

-C

Did I just reply to an old post? Doh!

I am also an INFJ married to an ESTJ and these actions are not things he would do. I would agree with the suggestions to go to a marriage counselor. Perhaps your husband has some unresolved pain from past experiences that keep him from knowing how to love. Don't give up on your marriage. I hope it's not too late. If you are a person of faith I would also recommend prayer for your husband and your marriage.

I'm also recently married to an ESTJ (well, he hasn't taken the test, doesn't believe in 'kooky stuff', but through repeated close readings of all 16 types, I'm guessing he's ESTJ/ENTJ), and I have to agree with most of the other responses, they don't express emotions very readily, but you can definitely 'intuit' that the emotions are there. My ESTJ is definitely of the solid dependable rock variety ^__^

I'm pretty sure that learning to 'speak S' will help us Ns a lot. Any other INFJs tend to use too many qualifying words/softeners?

N: I think it might be a good idea if we talked about this some more; it might help us understand each other.

S: We need to talk.

Your husband is definitely showing some negative traits of a estjs. Like others have said I suggest going to a marriage counselor but first you should try to make it work. One of my favorite qualities in a estj is if someone they truly love talks to them about something they're doing that that person doesn't like then ESTJs usually try to change it. Just try to talk to your husband but talk about what you THINK, ex: I Think you don't love me because you are insensitive to my feelings, I Think are relationship would be more successful if you tried to be a little more aware of my feelings because I love you and I want this relationship to work. If that doesn't work then I suggest a marriage counselor. I hope you relationship improves!

MrsBee said:

I am an INFJ and my husband is ESTJ. It would seems that I am all about nurturing, while he is an enforcer. He isn't really into communicating, can be brash and insensitive, whereas I am very sensitive and so he upsets me all the time and leaves me feeling very frustrated as he cannot deal with my emotions or needs.

For instance, as soon as I gave birth, the nurse said he didn't have to hang around, and he literally ran out the room. I thought he was joking, but 5 minutes later he hadn't returned. My legs were so numb I couldn't even wash myself. There are so many things I don't undrestand about him, whenever I say something deep or meaningful he just runs away - but this morning I was upset, and said I wasn't sure if our marriage could work, and he just went hmm mm and went off.

MB profile also says that sex wise, his type just see sex as a physical thing - for enjoyment (v true) whereas for me, sex is about love, romance, bonding. I don't know how to work around our differences. I do love him dearly, but at the moment we ahrdly ever have sex and that is an issue for both of us, but I cannot have hollow meaningless sex.

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Hi Mrs Bee,
I really hope you can make it work I believe it is possible. Is your husband very traditional (does he have traditional ideas about birthing babies?)

My brother did the very same thing at the hospital after the birth of his daughter as you describe. (He is an INTP and his wife seems to be an ESFJ). She had a big problem with it also. But knowing my brother, he is just very traditional and was uncomfortable seeing his wife in such a vulnerable position; the best way I know how to say it is he felt it was an invasion of her privacy. But he loves her. I thought it was weird he chose to do that since it was so important to her, they honestly had a total disconnect of personal philosophies. They're both great people.

As far as the sex thing, I think it is possible to get past both boundaries if you can just "make all the pieces click" with both of you to give you the connection with a soulmate and satisfy his desire also. I am married to an SP type and we make it work because we know each other well. Once all the pieces click, you can feel a soul connection with an S type, the key is perspective and opening up communication (at least it has been for us.) I think this is tougher with someone who is not very much like you, but still very possible, and in a way more satisfying because you balance each other's positive traits out and work well together. If you can only make him understand what you need to be happy and fulfilled, and be willing to understand the exact same thing on his end, it might be possible!!! Particularly as you have children together.

Best of luck and warmest wishes!

Been married to an ESTJ for nine years and he has exhibited none of these traits. He does have problems with intense emotional conversations so I finally just learned to start out by saying that I know these feelings don't make sense to him, but the fact of the matter is I am feeling this way and we need to do something about it. Also, I take a moment to calm down, map out important points and plan out what I'm going to say. This way I can be less emotional and more logical which is what he needs if he's going to talk about stuff. But as someone else pointed out, ESTJs will quickly do what they can to fix a situation once it's brought to their attention in a way they'll understand. Here are a few tips that are not professional but just from personal experience:
Never say the words "never" or "always"
try not to talk about something in the heat of the moment
Be very blunt. very, very, very. Not in a cruel way, but the fact is I think things are obvious about why I'm feeling the way I do that goes over his head. So I am very specific about what it is that I need from him, what caused my feelings, what we should avoid, etc.
don't accuse...saying things like, "you don't love me", "you're insensitive". Instead say things like, "when you did....it made me feel....." They can argue with accusations, but they can't argue with the way you feel.

As for the sex thing, my experience has been not that they don't need love for sex. It's that the physical act of sex causes a deeper bond with me. Whereas for me, I need to feel a deeper bond before having sex. This can be a downhill spiral if I refuse to have sex with him just because I'm not in the mood. Again, clear communication is key on this. But I've found that I'll feel distant from my hubby and not want to have sex, but if I do have sex we become closer and that space between us disappears. He struggles to feel bonded to me without sex, just as I struggle to feel bonded to him without some form of quality time.

Definitely go see a counselor, because I can say from experience, a marriage to an ESTJ can be a wonderful, glorious thing if you get past the communication barrier.

Perhaps he just has emotional issues, period. That would be my take on it. The ESTJs I know tend to be on the masculine side, and they've had to work on being in touch with their feelings. Having said that, they would appreciate the birth of a child or a having a good life partner.
The problem I have with the undeveloped ESTJ I knew was that she always thought she knew best. She was shallow and arrogant and never considered that maybe, she was in the wrong.

I am an infj woman in a relationship with an i/estj man as of 6 years. "The most challenging relationship of my life." however, also immensely rewarding as i most of the time have a tremendously dependable and mature partner. My experience is that he does not mirror feelings the way that gets me to feel safe or turned on, and i have to dig deep to stay connected w him. I recently discovered the relationship is called one of "duality". I interpret the internal world, he constructs the external world. This formulation on the connection has given me a new sense of esteem in the relationship. It is not a relationship for the young or insecure infj, but for the older more mature one who wants a serious output in life - this helps me to feel good about myself for sticking to it. I.e, this is the guy to build a life with, who is a go-getter that means he is not afraid to enter professions that will make him good money, and he will stick to you for the long-haul. If we were not also compatible on education and core values concerning health etc., my relationship would not have worked. Sex is not easy, as you indicate, and sometimes a real mental obstacle course for me. So at times i desire the attention of others greatly, and even allow myself to explore these feelings. If i rely on my partner for all my emotional support the pain can sometimes be too much to bare. Im learning to communicate better w his type as time passes, however, and he gets better w me as well. The relationship is like a paradox, both the most solid ive had and the most frustrating. Not a romantic ideal, but rewarding in a non-idealized and mature sense. Good luck!

I don't think this can be fixed with counseling. He doesn't love you, you can't change that.
Most of what I've seen from counseling is training him up to pretend to love you. Are you sure you want that?

How cruel does a person have to be to marry someone they don't love? :shocked:
I'd prefer a guy beat me up and took all my stuff, than to marry me without being in love with me. :crying:

Please before you drag him to a shrink, know that they aren't miracle workers. Most of the time, they aren't any good either, the only thing they can do is cover up the fact that they're full of shit. Be careful who you go to.

And please consider whether you're ready to be with someone who is not in love with you.
He may love you, but will not be in love with you. If that's enough for you, only then, think about counseling.

popsicke said:

I am an infj woman in a relationship with an i/estj man as of 6 years.
...
I recently discovered the relationship is called one of "duality".

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Our duals are MBTI ESTPs, and socionics ESTPs.
MBTI (and socionics) ESTJs are not our duals, but our conflictors.

Duality vs conflict

Thanks, a relationship of conflict is a fitting description, unfortunately. Takes much work. I seem to need NF relationships to help sustain me through some of it, but the rewards are also great - many similar to what youd get with an estp, but higher on conscientiousness. Anyways, rather than a good luck, may all you infj-estj relationships be happy at work!