[TheLastMohican]

These might be some dumb questions, but I believe that only an INTP can help me!



I've been noticing how a perceiving cognitive brain function such as Ni can work so differently for two INFJ's and I'm wondering if for INTP's Ti thoughts are more similar among two INTP's? I'm 22, and according to a few theories,(John Beebe's in particular) I should have my tertiary Ti developed, but I don't know. Would Ti work on behalf of Ni (organizing the web of Ideas), or does it feel like an independent entity that anylizes only my Feeling value judgements in the external world, leaving Ni alone?

Also, is there a way that each function works on a small and then on a large scale? I'ts wierd that on a small scale, Se for example may be a quick glance using the eyes to pick up on a relevent detail, which may only take a few seconds, but on the large scale, Se for the INFJ may amount to be using life experience and knowledge to may a tangible impact in reality. Or on a medium scale it maybe used in a sustained way (running a marathon). I know that Ni fully developed tends to find archetypes and meanings in the world. On a small scale, it seems like random imagination, or active imagination to create a timeless interpretation image to represent a goal. Does Ne have a small scale and large scale role? Does Ti? Also, when an INTP develops Fe, is it used to rally others to your incredible knowledge and thought on a large scale, or is it used in isolation, for less long term goals, like creating harmony in a group, or being concerned for implicit/explicit needs of your SO?

Is the way that an INTP abstracts thought the same for all INTP's, or is it a different imagination style between two different INTP's. If it is different, then does each INTP control this/her imagination of Ne to see what it wants? (to entertain yourself sometimes) Or does logic stipulate that you see the same patterns that even Socrates and Plato arrived at? (The forms)

I'm also curious about what INTP's think about the nature of preferred functions. Are they solidified in the brain somehow at an early age when we choose them, or are we created individually to be wired for certain preferences, with less energy cost associated with our preferred functions, and then individuate as we will later?

Do you think that the mind(as opposed to the brain) can be thought of as locations where functions like Fi and Ti can be located on the right hemisphere, etc. or is the mind a whole entity working together to assimilate information?

I love INTP's by the way!

 

[SomeWeirdGuy]

Can you explain in layperson's terms? I'm not well acquainted with psychological stuff this in depth, and its 2:30AM, so that makes a difference.

 

[Just_Some_Guy]

…I'm wondering if for INTP's Ti thoughts are more similar among two INTP's?

Generally speaking, INTPs don’t really care what other people think about their thoughts. They pursue understanding for understanding’s sake. Now, they do tend to look for confirmation on their Ne. “Am I seeing this right?” Once they get confirmation, it solidifies whatever nonsense their Ti generates.

Would Ti work on behalf of Ni (organizing the web of Ideas), or does it feel like an independent entity that anylizes only my Feeling value judgements in the external world, leaving Ni alone?

That’s interesting. You may need to go to another INFJ for that one. Personally, I’m only vaguely aware of how my Si nestles into my Ti. Seems to shore up Ti with details, facts and random things that I’ve read. Seems that if you’re an Ni, Ti may help give a logical voice to your Ni/Fe observations.

Also, is there a way that each function works on a small and then on a large scale? I'ts wierd that on a small scale, Se for example may be a quick glance using the eyes to pick up on a relevent detail, which may only take a few seconds, but on the large scale, Se for the INFJ may amount to be using life experience and knowledge to may a tangible impact in reality. Or on a medium scale it maybe used in a sustained way (running a marathon). I know that Ni fully developed tends to find archetypes and meanings in the world. On a small scale, it seems like random imagination, or active imagination to create a timeless interpretation image to represent a goal. Does Ne have a small scale and large scale role? Does Ti? Also, when an INTP develops Fe, is it used to rally others to your incredible knowledge and thought on a large scale, or is it used in isolation, for less long term goals, like creating harmony in a group, or being concerned for implicit/explicit needs of your SO?

That’s an interesting dichotomy. I see my own Ti functioning on both levels. I can use Ti/Ne to fix broken appliances, but I also use them to generate my philosophical world view. Perhaps the “large scale” represents the functions that you are more conscious of? If you used your Se shadow on the large scale, would you be conscious of it? I’m not sure I’m aware of any large scale Fe at all. Perhaps I should look into this?

Is the way that an INTP abstracts thought the same for all INTP's, or is it a different imagination style between two different INTP's. If it is different, then does each INTP control this/her imagination of Ne to see what it wants? (to entertain yourself sometimes) Or does logic stipulate that you see the same patterns that even Socrates and Plato arrived at? (The forms)

Again, very interesting. There’s a thread in the INTP forum about thought. Track that down for sure. I was expecting more agreement amongst INTPs, but that wasn’t the case at all. Seems that things vary quite a bit. I think the logical absolutes come from Te types as they are looking for objective foundations for their thinking. As a tragic side note, I remember smoking when I was younger and all sorts of crazy thoughts would come to mind. They were packed with meaning, but they didn’t have any words that could correlate with them. This of course leads to wildly symbolic stoner-babble, which isn’t too far from the INTP’s mind, only most INTPs tend to find meaningful ways to explain to others just what they’re thinking. It seems that in the private realm of Ti, anything goes.

I'm also curious about what INTP's think about the nature of preferred functions. Are they solidified in the brain somehow at an early age when we choose them, or are we created individually to be wired for certain preferences, with less energy cost associated with our preferred functions, and then individuate as we will later?

Seems like nature and nurture have something to say here.

Do you think that the mind(as opposed to the brain) can be thought of as locations where functions like Fi and Ti can be located on the right hemisphere, etc. or is the mind a whole entity working together to assimilate information?

I am of the opinion that the mind (as opposed to the brain) is the entire body. This is also why I like the chakras. They are hubs of psycho-physical energy that drastically influence our lived experience, especially where emotions are concerned. Look where emotions are found, they’re all over the body. I suppose those who insist that the human being is on an evolutionary path to become perfect cyborgs or robots would disagree with me. Every theory I’ve come across advocates some sort of wholeness of all of the cognitive functions, so learning to be a better person equates to balancing thinking with feeling, sensing with intuition and introversion with extroversion. I try to use the term “mind-body” as often as I can to emphasize this point.

 

[NeedsNewNameNow]

I've been noticing how a perceiving cognitive brain function such as Ni can work so differently for two INFJ's and I'm wondering if for INTP's Ti thoughts are more similar among two INTP's? I'm 22, and according to a few theories,(John Beebe's in particular) I should have my tertiary Ti developed, but I don't know. Would Ti work on behalf of Ni (organizing the web of Ideas), or does it feel like an independent entity that anylizes only my Feeling value judgements in the external world, leaving Ni alone?

to me it seems like all 4 functions can interact with each other.

Also, when an INTP develops Fe, is it used to rally others to your incredible knowledge and thought on a large scale, or is it used in isolation, for less long term goals, like creating harmony in a group, or being concerned for implicit/explicit needs of your SO?

Not sure about rallying people, but I have noticed I do care about harmony in a group. For instance, recently I was put in charge of a guest list for a party, and I started getting people say that they didn't think this other person should be invited (for reasons selfish to them). It stressed me out since I didn't want to play favorites and exclude people for the wrong reasons, I also didn't want to go against the friend asking for this.

Is the way that an INTP abstracts thought the same for all INTP's, or is it a different imagination style between two different INTP's. If it is different, then does each INTP control this/her imagination of Ne to see what it wants? (to entertain yourself sometimes) Or does logic stipulate that you see the same patterns that even Socrates and Plato arrived at? (The forms)

I think it's personal. I mean we may arrive at the same conclsions but follow a different path. Ne seems to pursue what it wants to pursue. INTPs form an internal model of how everything works. Ne gathers data, Ti tries to make it fit, discarding old data and refining the model.

I'm also curious about what INTP's think about the nature of preferred functions. Are they solidified in the brain somehow at an early age when we choose them, or are we created individually to be wired for certain preferences, with less energy cost associated with our preferred functions, and then individuate as we will later?

That seems to be the way it works.

Do you think that the mind(as opposed to the brain) can be thought of as locations where functions like Fi and Ti can be located on the right hemisphere, etc. or is the mind a whole entity working together to assimilate information?

Not sure, but I have seen theories that show Ti + Fi come from the same part of the brain, as do Fe + Te, and Ne + Se, and Ni + Si. This is why some say we only use 4 functions and not all 8.

 

[AirMarionette]

Would Ti work on behalf of Ni (organizing the web of Ideas), or does it feel like an independent entity that analyzes only my Feeling value judgments in the external world, leaving Ni alone?

Alright, think about the functions as a web of reasonable observations, as tags on some particular page of thought in one huge book-mind. I'll try to explain it as simple as possible, using my Ti-Si loop when gathering data. When my Ti realizes something, Si IMMEDIATELY fetches an old thought or some old piece of random relevant concept and Ne connects it and thus comes the "flash of insight".

So for you, your Ni might have just compounded loads of information to create one truth or principle (which is sort of what Ti does!), then YOUR Ti would go in and try to see the systematic reasoning behind it, the way it all fits and how. I wouldn't think of any function as an independent entity, partly because you can't really compartmentalize the brain.

Mind you that your third function can be thought of as the playful one, i.e., the one you engage on when you seek relief and it can work with your second function (Fe). So for you, you may use your Ti to attempt to understand the way people work, which is where you might get childlike satisfaction from; spending time doing this or any activity that involves in-depth analyses and deep thinking (Ti) is something you might indulge in.

Also, is there a way that each function works on a small and then on a large scale? Does Ne have a small scale and large scale role? Does Ti?

You could say that. Small Ne: Oh, nice pattern I see right thur. Big Ne: THIS IS A TREMENDOUS POSSIBILITY THAT COULD TRANSFORM LIFE AS WE KNOW IT. Small Ti: Oh, I see how it makes sense now, based on this here fact. Big Ti: THIS IS SUCH A BEAUTIFUL SYSTEM I UNDERSTAND HOW EVERYTHING WORKS AND NOW I CAN SOLVE THIS PROBLEM!

Also, when an INTP develops Fe, is it used to rally others to your incredible knowledge and thought on a large scale, or is it used in isolation, for less long term goals, like creating harmony in a group, or being concerned for implicit/explicit needs of your SO?

Of course I would use my Fe to relay knowledge or clarify. That's my point - to enlighten, to broaden knowledge horizons, to instill the proliferation of thought. Harmony in a group is important, and yes, Ti works with Fe that way. In a social situation, Ti can analyze all perspectives, break down little ideas, and use this broad-spectrum knowledge to create harmony in a situation by solving a particular issue.

Is the way that an INTP abstracts thought the same for all INTP's, or is it a different imagination style between two different INTP's. If it is different, then does each INTP control this/her imagination of Ne to see what it wants? (to entertain yourself sometimes) Or does logic stipulate that you see the same patterns that even Socrates and Plato arrived at? (The forms)

There is no way every INTP thinks the same way. They might have similar thought patterns, but everyone is ultimately different. You may generalize that we analyze primarily through Ti, but who's to say Ne won't kick instead on a particular INTP? Of course you control your imagination, that's individual! I control and think about whatever I want - sometimes it just happens to be carried away without me noticing it; other times, I derail and experience schizophrenic-like mental activity.

I'm also curious about what INTP's think about the nature of preferred functions. Are they solidified in the brain somehow at an early age when we choose them, or are we created individually to be wired for certain preferences, with less energy cost associated with our preferred functions, and then individuate as we will later?

Some people may be "hardwired" to think a certain way since birth, yes, but I think life experience has a way of dramatically altering mentality. Some "functions" may be natural to others, sure. You can, in a sense, develop other ways of thinking if it need be, like in stressful situations.

Do you think that the mind (as opposed to the brain) can be thought of as locations where functions like Fi and Ti can be located on the right hemisphere, etc. or is the mind a whole entity working together to assimilate information?

That's an interesting concept. Ti and Ne I know to be right-brained functions in the sense that they're disorderly and very creative. Fi would be, as well. I believe that, yes, the mind is a whole entity - think of it as a car or a simple framework. It needs every part to function, assuming "functions" to be each part (which is a little crazy, but let's play with that idea), with assimilation of the environment to be the ultimate goal.

I love INTP's by the way!

INFJs are pretty cool, too. :wink:

 

[Nitou]

These might be some dumb questions, but I believe that only an INTP can help me!

I've been noticing how a perceiving cognitive brain function such as Ni can work so differently for two INFJ's and I'm wondering if for INTP's Ti thoughts are more similar among two INTP's? I'm 22, and according to a few theories,(John Beebe's in particular) I should have my tertiary Ti developed, but I don't know. Would Ti work on behalf of Ni (organizing the web of Ideas), or does it feel like an independent entity that anylizes only my Feeling value judgements in the external world, leaving Ni alone?

I barely know how Ti works in myself, let alone anyone else. The functions work in tandem I think, and the way they do it varies depending on the task, your unique personality and the demands of your environment. When you're alone with your thoughts, I think it is likely that you are using Ti to advise/organize Ni. Seems like a great function combo to me. You could use Ti to analyze your feeling judgments as well. I don't experience Ti as an independent entity, but detachment is its nature so I can see how it might seem a bit foreign if used in the tertiary position. I understand that some INFJ's (especially men) will cultivate a Ti-Se side too.

Also, is there a way that each function works on a small and then on a large scale? I'ts wierd that on a small scale, Se for example may be a quick glance using the eyes to pick up on a relevent detail, which may only take a few seconds, but on the large scale, Se for the INFJ may amount to be using life experience and knowledge to may a tangible impact in reality. Or on a medium scale it maybe used in a sustained way (running a marathon). I know that Ni fully developed tends to find archetypes and meanings in the world. On a small scale, it seems like random imagination, or active imagination to create a timeless interpretation image to represent a goal. Does Ne have a small scale and large scale role? Does Ti? Also, when an INTP develops Fe, is it used to rally others to your incredible knowledge and thought on a large scale, or is it used in isolation, for less long term goals, like creating harmony in a group, or being concerned for implicit/explicit needs of your SO?

Ne spans the universe, but you don't need to scan the universe when you just want fix something or relate with someone. I don't think of Ti as having a large or small scale. It just is; it can process big problems or small ones. For Fe, I cannot use it on a large scale and have no desire to rally others. I would leave that to the more outgoing types. I just use Fe to form and maintain relationships or to promote group harmony.

Is the way that an INTP abstracts thought the same for all INTP's, or is it a different imagination style between two different INTP's. If it is different, then does each INTP control this/her imagination of Ne to see what it wants? (to entertain yourself sometimes) Or does logic stipulate that you see the same patterns that even Socrates and Plato arrived at? (The forms)

It certainly varies by person. I would think that Ne-dom types are more wildly imaginative, while the imagination is more subdued with the Ne-aux types. But that is speculation.

I'm also curious about what INTP's think about the nature of preferred functions. Are they solidified in the brain somehow at an early age when we choose them, or are we created individually to be wired for certain preferences, with less energy cost associated with our preferred functions, and then individuate as we will later?
Do you think that the mind(as opposed to the brain) can be thought of as locations where functions like Fi and Ti can be located on the right hemisphere, etc. or is the mind a whole entity working together to assimilate information?

I don't think the "functions" truly exist but are models used to describe habitual tendencies in thought, behavior and brain functioning. We know that some personality traits are inborn while the personality is also shaped by environment. I have read that the different functions are associated with different areas of the brain but I know little about that. Anything else I say is just more speculation.

 

[TheLastMohican]

Can you explain in layperson's terms? I'm not well acquainted with psychological stuff this in depth, and its 2:30AM, so that makes a difference.

Haha, yeah, sorry it's a mess really. but yeah, recently I've just been getting into the individual cognitive functions in MBTI theory of each type, and my questions I think are about those. And Since (maybe) I have preference for the INFJ type, it seems I spend alot of time thinking about thinking, since my dominant view of the world is called Ni, where you prefer to constantly change your viewpoint to understand something. But anyways, I would totally recommend getting acquainted with the cognitive functions if you haven't looked at them individually, because it's so interesting! I think if you google lenore thomson and cognitive theory, it's called green light wiki, and you find out people's philosophy about functions or attitudes in MBTI. It's cool because you start to see how some brain functions are supposedly more abstract than others, and some are more open minded than others too. I've read so much though, that I think I'm slowly getting more confused. But I love to hear other's experiences and opinions