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guys what do you think is the difference between infjs and intjs?,i have this theory that infjs are actualy more cold and logical than intjs having ni and ti and intjs more emotional and passionate having tertery fi?,people like nietsche and harclitus seem to be more poetic in there ideas,and infjs like plato seem to be purley logical....ok whata are you honest thoughts on this ignoring any social worries,but just taking the idea objectively what are your inner insights into this?dont worry about any social norm or about why im asking,just taking this problem objectivly?
 

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Tell them about your day and how you're feeling. Start tearing up.

Watch reaction.

Both will be awkward, one will prolly have more of an immediate emotional response.

The other one will be like a cat who woke up to see a cucumber next to them.

Idk, tho. :proud:
 

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infjs have weak Ti and their weakest function is Te so I dunno, that doesn't sound like it would beat Te aux in the 'coldness' of logic, overall i mean
and Fe tends to make someone emotionally expressive, like an actual physical expression
 

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Tell them about your day and how you're feeling. Start tearing up.

Watch reaction.

Both will be awkward, one will prolly have more of an immediate emotional response.

The other one will be like a cat who woke up to see a cucumber next to them.

Idk, tho. :proud:
hahah good one :laughing:
 

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That is an interesting theory and I see where it's coming from. We may not appear as coldly logical but some unhealthy INFJs can indeed be emotionally manipulative. They are even scarier than unhealthy Ts in my opinion. I've had to deal with quite a few and I am one to an extent.

We definitely do have our logical side to us. While on the outside INFJs and INTJs may seem significantly different, we do have more in common and what's lurking beneath the surface may be different in both cases. I think INTJs are better at explaining their thoughts in a structured way. Both types like exploring ideas and can get accurate ideas of people and events. We just express it differently. INTJs can also be very emotional people. With some INFJs, if we are not on that deep level with someone, politeness becomes like going through the motions. An INTJ might at least be more honest so in some ways, we are more cold.
 

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TBH, I don't know about other types, only INTJ, but maybe having this well of strong feelings, certainly very familiar with, known very well, but not having anywhere to place them, or do things with them.

Maybe INFJs are better at finding a way for their feelings to not sort of be floating around, unintegrated, feeding intuition and thoughts, but ultimately homeless.

[ETA
Tell them about your day and how you're feeling. Start tearing up.

Watch reaction.
What? There's only one correct reaction, and that is to be as warm and comforting as one can.

Yes, I know ur joking, but I can't resist running my inkpen, running my mouth.

Assuming you like the person. If it were an enemy or a potential enemy, I'd be having the time of my life. :)

And if it were, say, I don't know, some street person I was talking to, I don't think I'd swoop in for a hug, but certainly a nice clasp of the shoulder. "Courage, mon pote!"

In fact, I can be a hugger of friends, but in this case, if it were a male friend, I don't think the hug would be the thing -- like they aren't asking for comfort necessarily, or even want their emotions recognized, but an ally. Shoulder clasp. buck them up.

I guess I keep digging myself even deeper into a hole with my sexism, but I can't apologize for that, wouldn't want to, and don't care to.

And FTR, yes, my instinct would be to try to comfort a woman friend, make physical contact, make her feel she's not alone and is cared for. Nothing sexual about it, or pervy -- it could be my own mother or sister [NB, I said sister, not "sister-wife" or "sister-cousin"] -- but it is different than the way I might punch a man gently in the arm or something.

And, of course, there are women I know who would want nothing of the sort. They wouldn't knee me in the crotch, but they'd probably give me a sock in the shoulder and make fun of me. Spice of life!]
 

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The differences is the T and the F. One will have a tendency to be an introvertedly emotional idealist/strategist, and the other one will have a tendency to be an introvertedly logical idealist/strategist.
 

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I have yet to find an INFJ in real life who displays the ability for logical (ie rational) thinking. I have found that INFJs online are very low in Ti and Te, though I've met a few who have started cultivating Ti. I've met a handful who are rational.

I think that the Ni mysticism is sometimes overlooked in the INTJ. I think that the Fe manipulation is sometimes overlooked in the INFJ.
 

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people like nietsche and harclitus seem to be more poetic in there ideas,and infjs like plato seem to be purley logical....
This is an interesting observation, but I don't think that command of language is strictly a thinking/feeling split. It also depends on what you find poetic, and what the author is attempting to do with their style to either express themselves or speak to their audience. Also, Nietzsche and Plato were translated into English, so it can be difficult to gauge when not read in the original language.
 

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After thinking a bit more on this, this is based on the premise that Plato is an INFJ and Nietzsche is an INTJ. I'm aware some places type Plato as an INFJ and all, but I would argue he's an INTJ.

I think, just as it's dangerous for me to assume all INFJs are one way just because it's my experience, it's probably also dangerous to assume that every INFJ is really an introverted NT (Ni-Ti) and every INTJ is really an introverted NF (Ni-Fi). It's a compelling idea, but I don't think it applies in every case.

I'm not quite certain what @hornpipe2 is saying here, though. Is it that type can't be divined from writing style?
 
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INFJs are good people and have a lot to offer to the world but they have to accept that they have weaknesses just like INTJs have to accept their weaknesses. They could help each other a lot but they choose not to because of the same thing that every "Same dom function but different aux function" types go through, which is the problem of being ignorant to the needs and red lines of each other.
 

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I have yet to find an INFJ in real life who displays the ability for logical (ie rational) thinking. I have found that INFJs online are very low in Ti and Te, though I've met a few who have started cultivating Ti. I've met a handful who are rational.

I think that the Ni mysticism is sometimes overlooked in the INTJ. I think that the Fe manipulation is sometimes overlooked in the INFJ.
Much of the above summarizes my stance. Upvoted. Yet another INTJ that reads my thoughts..

Compounding onto the above, from a purely psychological perspective, I would be inclined to agree.

If were to take metaphorical analogies, and if we were to compare healthy INTJs and INFJs as planets and the heat generation as an example, then the INTJ would be a planet with an icy crust, with the heat source underneath the ice shelf. In contrast, an INFJ would have his heat externalized, with an icy core inside the celestial body.
 
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I'm not quite certain what @hornpipe2 is saying here, though. Is it that type can't be divined from writing style?
Regardless of the authors cited, @naren essentially supported their theory with this statement: "I read some INTJ writing and it was poetic. I read some INFJ writing and it was logical."

I think that is too big of a stretch to then say that INTJ is more emotional than INFJ. For example, here are some alternate explanations:
* the sample size is too small,
* the authors cited are not native English writers,
* the pieces written are aimed at different audiences and thus use a different writing style,
* the idea of "poetic" is subjective and based on OP's ideas of what is pleasing to read,
* the authors are not accurately typed!

So without this, the original theory ("INTJ is more emotional than INFJ, INFJ is more cold and logical than INTJ") does not hold. I thought this was what @naren was asking about.
 

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Well both INTJs and INFJs share dom Ni, so both will seem very similar. However recognizing Te/Fi axis and a Fe/Ti axis isn't too difficult imo. In the INFJ, they tend to have this gentleman/lady-like quality in them, think Great Gatsby. INFJs instinctively know how to come across as polite, proper, and will tend to try to project a certain warmth to connect with you (I underlined "try" because Ive seen how INFJs can fail at being warm and friendly even though theyre trying, myself included - it all depends on how good the INFJ is at utilizing Fe). Because the INFJ has to consciously "wield" Fe, they will go from being completely self-absorbed and cold to warm and friendly in just seconds of socializing (if the person theyre talking with isnt on their bad side and the INFJ isn't stressed/tired). The change of facial expression, attitude, vibe, and everything can sometimes be so significant that you'll probably be confused about the INFJs authenticity at first (until you get closer with them). The Fe projection can sometimes feel forced on their part and you might even get a shady vibe because of it (like I said, think Gatsby).

INTJs, on the other hand, feel no desire to project this kind of warmth. The INTJs Ive met are actually really nice, but it's a lot more of a passive kind of nice, and you get the feeling their warmth is directed inward if you will, not directed at/for you. INTJs can come across as a little robotic, usually talking with kind of a monotone-like voice and a lot of times will have a dead/blank stare. Im not sure if it's because Im a typical INFJ reading into people too much, but personally I always get this feeling from Fi/Te users that there's this burning furnace coming from within. It's really shown in their eyes, and Ive noticed that Te/Fi users don't make as much eye contact as Fe/Ti users because theyre not as focused on your reactions and emotions as an Fe/Ti user would be.

INFJs strive for Ti, meaning that the function INFJs really try to use (but arent that good at until a lot of practice) is Ti. This is shown in the way INFJs have this "deep thinker"-like quality to them. They seem like they're really trying to understand something, contemplating, brooding, and analyzing. If you talk to an xNFJ and they're really focused on you, you might get the feeling theyre really analyzing everything you say (similar to xSTPs). When INFJs are really listening to you talk, there's not really any feeling going on within themselves, it's all you focused. INFJs have a really strong unconscious Fi though, so when they do have emotional reactions to things, it's strong and it just bleeds through their facial expressions. They're trying to be analytical and unemotionally logical, but that Fi gets in the way all the time, and there's no hiding how they feel, INFJs are just so emotionally expressive, and typically when they're not projecting the Fe warmth (you can call it fake if you want), they will have this melancholy feel to them (especially in the face) that you will get the feeling there's so much on their mind. It's because of the unconscious Fi that they look like this, INFJs are always in Ni/Fi mode unless they consciously tell themselves to go into "Fe mode" (then everything they do is projected for everyone else, it almost feels like we have to get into character for a movie if you will).

INTJs just simply don't care about all that. INTJs strive for Fi, so they want to build and work on their own feelings, moral principles, and self expression. However, INTJs have an incredibly strong, yet unconscious Ti. So INTJs will almost always ditch their Fi self expression in favor of doing what they think is objectively logical, so you could say INTJs are internally conflicted in their decision making process because they want to possess Fi, but their Ti finds Fi illogical and unintelligent so they will naturally act on Ti. The same goes for INFJs, they want to be unemotionally logical and intelligent, but the strong Fi gets in the way and they can't help but be guided by their own emotions and sensitive feelings. Under stress though these processes get extremely complicated and INTJs Ni-Fi loop can make them look like a really immature INFJs and vice versa for the Ni-Ti loop.

Ti manifests in INFJs as over thinking everything, Fi manifests in INTJs as emotional self absorption. Finally, INTJs "wield" Te, similar to how INFJs "wield" Fe. INTJs will consciously tell themselves to ditch the Ti "over thinking" and will go into "fact gathering" mode. The use of Te will serve INTJs Ni as making intuitive conclusions based on factual evidence and INTJs will focus their attentions from the Ti working to the external, systematic workings of the world. Te can make INTJs really want to gain control over the systematic environment, unlike INFJs who like to gain control over the social and emotional environment. One more point I'd like to make is that if you argue with an INFJ, they tend to argue with a sassy, know-it-all like attitude and it's extremely unpleasant. With an INTJ, they tend to argue with a calmer and robotic-like demeanor. Both will probably destroy you in any argument, but the INFJ in particular will manipulate your mind to hell in order to prove their point. Every argument with the INFJ feels extremely personal, and they use their understanding of the way you think against you. The INTJ will just destroy you with fact after fact after fact and will really just make you look incredibly stupid.

I hope this post wasn't overly excessive and I hope I could help! :proud:
 

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INTJs strive for Fi, so they want to build and work on their own feelings, moral principles, and self expression. However, INTJs have an incredibly strong, yet unconscious Ti. So INTJs will almost always ditch their Fi self expression in favor of doing what they think is objectively logical, so you could say INTJs are internally conflicted in their decision making process because they want to possess Fi, but their Ti finds Fi illogical and unintelligent so they will naturally act on Ti. The same goes for INFJs, they want to be unemotionally logical and intelligent, but the strong Fi gets in the way and they can't help but be guided by their own emotions and sensitive feelings.
That sounds pretty smart. (Not sarcastic. Also that wasn't sarcastic. I need a shortcut for the permanent parabasis of irony that is a risk of interpretation. -->Not sarcastic<--. Not perfect, but I'll try that.)

I think I'm going to provisionally adopt this as a way to think about this topic.

Thanks!
 

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Well both INTJs and INFJs share dom Ni, so both will seem very similar. However recognizing Te/Fi axis and a Fe/Ti axis isn't too difficult imo. In the INFJ, they tend to have this gentleman/lady-like quality in them, think Great Gatsby. INFJs instinctively know how to come across as polite, proper, and will tend to try to project a certain warmth to connect with you (I underlined "try" because Ive seen how INFJs can fail at being warm and friendly even though theyre trying, myself included - it all depends on how good the INFJ is at utilizing Fe). Because the INFJ has to consciously "wield" Fe, they will go from being completely self-absorbed and cold to warm and friendly in just seconds of socializing (if the person theyre talking with isnt on their bad side and the INFJ isn't stressed/tired). The change of facial expression, attitude, vibe, and everything can sometimes be so significant that you'll probably be confused about the INFJs authenticity at first (until you get closer with them). The Fe projection can sometimes feel forced on their part and you might even get a shady vibe because of it (like I said, think Gatsby).

INTJs, on the other hand, feel no desire to project this kind of warmth. The INTJs Ive met are actually really nice, but it's a lot more of a passive kind of nice, and you get the feeling their warmth is directed inward if you will, not directed at/for you. INTJs can come across as a little robotic, usually talking with kind of a monotone-like voice and a lot of times will have a dead/blank stare. Im not sure if it's because Im a typical INFJ reading into people too much, but personally I always get this feeling from Fi/Te users that there's this burning furnace coming from within. It's really shown in their eyes, and Ive noticed that Te/Fi users don't make as much eye contact as Fe/Ti users because theyre not as focused on your reactions and emotions as an Fe/Ti user would be.

INFJs strive for Ti, meaning that the function INFJs really try to use (but arent that good at until a lot of practice) is Ti. This is shown in the way INFJs have this "deep thinker"-like quality to them. They seem like they're really trying to understand something, contemplating, brooding, and analyzing. If you talk to an xNFJ and they're really focused on you, you might get the feeling theyre really analyzing everything you say (similar to xSTPs). When INFJs are really listening to you talk, there's not really any feeling going on within themselves, it's all you focused. INFJs have a really strong unconscious Fi though, so when they do have emotional reactions to things, it's strong and it just bleeds through their facial expressions. They're trying to be analytical and unemotionally logical, but that Fi gets in the way all the time, and there's no hiding how they feel, INFJs are just so emotionally expressive, and typically when they're not projecting the Fe warmth (you can call it fake if you want), they will have this melancholy feel to them (especially in the face) that you will get the feeling there's so much on their mind. It's because of the unconscious Fi that they look like this, INFJs are always in Ni/Fi mode unless they consciously tell themselves to go into "Fe mode" (then everything they do is projected for everyone else, it almost feels like we have to get into character for a movie if you will).

INTJs just simply don't care about all that. INTJs strive for Fi, so they want to build and work on their own feelings, moral principles, and self expression. However, INTJs have an incredibly strong, yet unconscious Ti. So INTJs will almost always ditch their Fi self expression in favor of doing what they think is objectively logical, so you could say INTJs are internally conflicted in their decision making process because they want to possess Fi, but their Ti finds Fi illogical and unintelligent so they will naturally act on Ti. The same goes for INFJs, they want to be unemotionally logical and intelligent, but the strong Fi gets in the way and they can't help but be guided by their own emotions and sensitive feelings. Under stress though these processes get extremely complicated and INTJs Ni-Fi loop can make them look like a really immature INFJs and vice versa for the Ni-Ti loop.

Ti manifests in INFJs as over thinking everything, Fi manifests in INTJs as emotional self absorption. Finally, INTJs "wield" Te, similar to how INFJs "wield" Fe. INTJs will consciously tell themselves to ditch the Ti "over thinking" and will go into "fact gathering" mode. The use of Te will serve INTJs Ni as making intuitive conclusions based on factual evidence and INTJs will focus their attentions from the Ti working to the external, systematic workings of the world. Te can make INTJs really want to gain control over the systematic environment, unlike INFJs who like to gain control over the social and emotional environment. One more point I'd like to make is that if you argue with an INFJ, they tend to argue with a sassy, know-it-all like attitude and it's extremely unpleasant. With an INTJ, they tend to argue with a calmer and robotic-like demeanor. Both will probably destroy you in any argument, but the INFJ in particular will manipulate your mind to hell in order to prove their point. Every argument with the INFJ feels extremely personal, and they use their understanding of the way you think against you. The INTJ will just destroy you with fact after fact after fact and will really just make you look incredibly stupid.

I hope this post wasn't overly excessive and I hope I could help! :proud:
I would like to acknowledge the validity of the above, as this indeed what occurrs in conflicts between myself and my INFJ brother. It is eerily accurate. Upvoted.
 
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Ive noticed that Te/Fi users don't make as much eye contact as Fe/Ti users because theyre not as focused on your reactions and emotions as an Fe/Ti user would be.
i think your explanation is wrong, or at least incomplete. i often get my best listening done when i'm not looking. it's a mistake to think lack of eye contact means a lack of attention or interest, with me. afaik, a better way to gauge how involved i am is whether or not i look at you when i speak.
 
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i think your explanation is wrong, or at least incomplete. i often get my best listening done when i'm not looking. it's a mistake to think lack of eye contact means a lack of attention or interest, with me. afaik, a better way to gauge how involved i am is whether or not i look at you when i speak.
I never said INTJs arent listening/paying attention, I just said they don't make as much eye contact as, say, INFJs
 
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I never said INTJs arent listening/paying attention, I just said they don't make as much eye contact as, say, INFJs
well, crossed wires then, i guess. originally you said

because theyre not as focused on your reactions and emotions as an Fe/Ti user would be
.

and i said that is not

a lack of attention or interest,
i took them to all mean the same thing, but the proliferation of synonymous phrases does add confusion. i can rephrase my own post to say lack of eye contact does not mean i'm less focused on emotion and reaction than an fe/ti user would be, and it would still be what i think.

edit: actually, it's probably true that i am less focused on the 'emotion/reaction' part, but that's going to be true all the time just because that's how i am. believe me, i can look somebody right in the face and still have the same stronger focus on other things.

i think it has more to do with what kind of work my brain is doing. if i'm putting together my internal picture of what's going on, i think i'm less likely to look. i'm just absorbing and sorting etc. when there's specific info i want or a specific thing that i'm either communicating or clarifying, then i'll be likely to look.

afaik anyway. was just saying, you shouldn't be able to get away with such hoary old chestnuts as 'intjs don't look at you because they're not emotion-centred.'
 

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INFJs are good people and have a lot to offer to the world but they have to accept that they have weaknesses just like INTJs have to accept their weaknesses.
To help put a concrete aspect here, could you or somebody please try to give some example of a non-asshole person who somehow doesn't accept the existence, if not the whole extent, of their weaknesses?

I can't think of a single person I've ever met worthy of the title who lacks humility and sincere recognition of one's weaknesses.

Of course, I've met plenty of assholes who probably lack humanity in those defining attributes, but no real people.

I don't mean to derail the thread entirely, but I think this would be good to know.
 
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