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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello INFJ friends,

I have recently executed a soft doorslam on a friend. The reason for this is multi-layered - not being true to her word a lot of the time, being all words and little action, not taking any care with my feelings or heart, allowing me to do all the work in the friendship (rarely instigating), ignoring special things I sent to her and sometimes ignoring me. So many other fails. The upshot is that I have lost respect (and trust) for her, and even if she were to make an effort to repair things, I'm not sure that this respect can be restored.

My question for you is this: what causes you to lose respect (and trust) for people? And, can this ever be restored if they make the right moves? Thank you :)
 

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It happens when the person:

--has too much self-absorption

--is reckless

--is deceptive

--is imperceptive

--treats me as one of a group rather than as an individual

--treats others poorly

--is pathologically cynical or irretrievably depressed as if to mine others for attention

--is dishonest and/or two-faced

--is unappreciative (maybe this is part of "imperceptive")

I'm sure there are more things, but these are some.

No, they can't do anything to get the magic back. If they've been any of this once, they'll err the same way again, as I have found after a lifetime of giving people second chances and their never redeeming themselves nor learning. There are plenty of fish in the sea--throw the poison ones back.
 

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Hmm, your list sounds a lot like mine. I lose respect if there is dishonesty and lack of transparency. When they tell you how much of a friend and sister you are to them yet you are treated differently? A "friend" of mine, for example. Her action showed me that she was not who she says she is. I had more reasons but dishonesty is a huge factor for me to lose respect for you.
 

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Hello INFJ friends,

I have recently executed a soft doorslam on a friend. The reason for this is multi-layered - not being true to her word a lot of the time, being all words and little action, not taking any care with my feelings or heart, allowing me to do all the work in the friendship (rarely instigating), ignoring special things I sent to her and sometimes ignoring me. So many other fails. The upshot is that I have lost respect (and trust) for her, and even if she were to make an effort to repair things, I'm not sure that this respect can be restored.

My question for you is this: what causes you to lose respect (and trust) for people? And, can this ever be restored if they make the right moves? Thank you :)
I have ended several "friendships" where I felt I was being somewhat bullied or taken for granted. I just slowly let them die, rather than ending them abruptly.

I abruptly door-slammed one of my sisters who made a seriously wrong judgment about me and then spread gossip. It took her several years to "apologize," but she never really admitted any wrongdoing and she is now distant with me in a passive-aggressive sort of way (often ignores emails with the excuse she is too busy, etc.). I decided to just "play the game socially" (surface level kindness or friendliness; no longer trying to invest in the relationship) with her to avoid disharmony in the family. If doing it over, I would probably choose to do the later from the beginning.
 

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Mostly it is the bad values like what is displayed in woke culture where child abuse and mutilation is encouraged then there is the racial and gender discrimination that has metastasized like cancer throughout western society. The lack of good sense and good values in people these days makes me pull back worse still I can't help but feel that something is missing in people these days especially when there is the lack of empathy and depth.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Thank you @odinthor, I can really relate to the list. Sums it up well. I also find that the likelihood of finding yourself in the same situation is high, so it's easier to let go. It just takes me a really long time (too long) to get there. @cultivatingthemind yes, being taken for granted really rubs me up the wrong way. I dislike that a lot. @iblameyou yes, dishonesty is an immediate red flag and I'm pretty much gone after that. I think not keeping your word is in this category to a degree. [MENTION=507514]@annunakispirit, yes, empathy is lacking and I think it's partly due to digital culture, increase in self-involvement.
 

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I find most people to be extremely predictable, I usually feel like I know what they are or aren't capable of, since the majority of people just make the same types of choices that reflect their internal attitudes, reliably, over and over. So there are just certain kinds of people that I tend to respect or not respect, and especially people in certain states of development. I tend to respect people if they have abilities/talents/values that I admire or just generally a unique/interesting/novel/ideal way of being. Once I respect someone there is usually a pretty good reason, I'm not that likely to lose respect for them. If I lose respect for someone, I just attribute it to me having jumped to conclusions before and not having had an accurate picture of them, I wouldn't think of it as being their fault. So it just feels like a learning experience for me rather than feeling betrayed.

I don't respect people by default, though. I always aim to treat people kindly and fairly, and show them every consideration, but does that mean I expect anything of them? Not necessarily... respect for me is something special. I think everyone has the potential for great things, but also I knowingly live in the reality where that potential is seldom realized.
 

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Respect

1. a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
2. due regard for the feelings, wishes, or rights of others.

The second aspect of respect is something that should be given to every living being in my opinion. It is not something I would 'lose'. In my eyes its also not something that is conditional. No matter what the person did or who he/she is there should be that basic level of respect towards that person.

Haven't felt admiration for someone very often in my life. Did happen a few times though and yeah a few of those bubbles bursted. An example is that I put one or two spiritual teachers, whom I also called friends, on a pedestal. Admiring their wisdom & abilities. Then I found myself in a crisis situation and they weren't there for me.....in fact....one of them even broke ties completely. Save to say that this person fell of her pedestal.
 

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Respect

1. a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
2. due regard for the feelings, wishes, or rights of others.

The second aspect of respect is something that should be given to every living being in my opinion. It is not something I would 'lose'. In my eyes its also not something that is conditional. No matter what the person did or who he/she is there should be that basic level of respect towards that person.

Haven't felt admiration for someone very often in my life. Did happen a few times though and yeah a few of those bubbles bursted. An example is that I put one or two spiritual teachers, whom I also called friends, on a pedestal. Admiring their wisdom & abilities. Then I found myself in a crisis situation and they weren't there for me.....in fact....one of them even broke ties completely. Save to say that this person fell of her pedestal.
You have made a good point here, that respect should be given to everyone. Maybe the original question could be reworded to “What causes you to lose your trust in someone?”
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Respect

1. a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
2. due regard for the feelings, wishes, or rights of others.

The second aspect of respect is something that should be given to every living being in my opinion. It is not something I would 'lose'. In my eyes its also not something that is conditional. No matter what the person did or who he/she is there should be that basic level of respect towards that person.

Haven't felt admiration for someone very often in my life. Did happen a few times though and yeah a few of those bubbles bursted. An example is that I put one or two spiritual teachers, whom I also called friends, on a pedestal. Admiring their wisdom & abilities. Then I found myself in a crisis situation and they weren't there for me.....in fact....one of them even broke ties completely. Save to say that this person fell of her pedestal.
This is a very interesting point. Perhaps admiration is a more suitable word than 'respect.' Because, yes, I always have the intention of treating people how I would like to be treated and that is respect. But I suppose if they repeatedly don't show the second aspect of your definition concerning regard for other peoples' feelings, then that admiration goes out the window. I suppose I meant more the attitude you have towards that person rather than the way you would treat them. You hold them in less high regard.
 

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Lying (including intentional manipulation), bullying, abusive/controlling behaviors (towards me or others).

Most of the other things people have listed here I don't really find doorslam or loss-of-respect/trust material. Just...annoying. But I can still be polite and kind to "annoying" without taking much time out of my own day, so...I'm a bit surprised and a little disheartened, really, that doorslam would be the reaction to things like being inauthentic or unappreciative. Just seems a little like kicking down a door when a knock (or calm confrontation) would do. Often people acting like that are doing so out of ignorance or not having enough "spoons" to take care of their own problems, let alone someone else's. (And sometimes, inauthentic is authentic...when you give someone your time of day when secretly wanting to go home and read a book by yourself (or whatever), how authentic are you being? Yet everyone does something like that, every day.) So I just...shrug my shoulders, know their problems are their problems, don't let them become mine, and otherwise treat them like I would anyone else. ...though I tend not to let most people "in" to being with, of course....
 

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<stares at PerC> Why won't you let me edit?

Anyway, I meant to add...the way to make it up to me if a person did something in the first line? Apologizing flat out, and then making an effort to stop the poor behaviors (and behaviors can be habits so I might give them a few free passes still). But 9 times out of 10, the people who engage in that kind of thing did so 101% intentionally, so that pretty much never happens, and there is no making up, because there's nothing stopping them from doing it again (and most of them do/did, if I naively gave them a second chance). "If he repents, forgive..."
 

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Discussion Starter #16
<stares at PerC> Why won't you let me edit?

Anyway, I meant to add...the way to make it up to me if a person did something in the first line? Apologizing flat out, and then making an effort to stop the poor behaviors (and behaviors can be habits so I might give them a few free passes still). But 9 times out of 10, the people who engage in that kind of thing did so 101% intentionally, so that pretty much never happens, and there is no making up, because there's nothing stopping them from doing it again (and most of them do/did, if I naively gave them a second chance). "If he repents, forgive..."
I've had the same experience. Gave too many chances. It was almost like watching a really toxic science experiment, where you need to wear a mask against the fumes, and where the same result blossoms before your eyes again and again. You're just in awe of how ugly it looks.
 

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<stares at PerC> Why won't you let me edit?

Anyway, I meant to add...the way to make it up to me if a person did something in the first line? Apologizing flat out, and then making an effort to stop the poor behaviors (and behaviors can be habits so I might give them a few free passes still). But 9 times out of 10, the people who engage in that kind of thing did so 101% intentionally, so that pretty much never happens, and there is no making up, because there's nothing stopping them from doing it again (and most of them do/did, if I naively gave them a second chance). "If he repents, forgive..."
I agree. If someone admits wrongdoing and desires forgiveness, to stay true to my values, I should and will try to forgive them. For the same reason, I should forgive them even if they don't admit wrongdoing and apologize but that is difficult to do. In either case, I definitely won't fully trust them (or trust them at all depending on what happened) unless I see a change in their pattern of behavior. I should add, in my view, forgiving someone doesn't require that you trust them.
 

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[...] I'm a bit surprised and a little disheartened, really, that doorslam would be the reaction to things like being inauthentic or unappreciative. Just seems a little like kicking down a door when a knock (or calm confrontation) would do. [...]
Inappreciation is a sort of passive aggressive belittling. What lies behind it is "Oh, little you did that for me? LOL, who cares?"

"Calm confrontation"? Sure, I do something kind for someone, or have some excellent quality, and I'm obliged to not only have the responsibilities of the original appreciation-deserving action or quality but also to undertake the requirement to defend it to someone unable or insufficiently motivated to appreciate it in the first place and so unlikely to respond well to my calm educative confrontation? There's too much martyrdom inherent in making up for others' shortcomings; time to slam the door.
 

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Inappreciation is a sort of passive aggressive belittling. What lies behind it is "Oh, little you did that for me? LOL, who cares?"

"Calm confrontation"? Sure, I do something kind for someone, or have some excellent quality, and I'm obliged to not only have the responsibilities of the original appreciation-deserving action or quality but also to undertake the requirement to defend it to someone unable or insufficiently motivated to appreciate it in the first place and so unlikely to respond well to my calm educative confrontation? There's too much martyrdom inherent in making up for others' shortcomings; time to slam the door.
Passive aggressive behavior (dishonesty is involved here) can often be more destructive to relationships and be more frustrating to deal with than outright unkind behavior. If I don’t think the offending individual is mature enough to listen to me and correct their behavior, I usually won’t say anything and will distance myself. I won’t risk having repeated negative interactions that I know will affect my emotional well-being.

Based on my experience alone, I wouldn’t door slam an extended family member (my family of origin or my husband’s) again, unless it was an abusive relationship. I would just limit my involvement with the individual and try to be somewhat cordial when I have to interact with them. This is easier for me to do than for others because we live a great distance from all of our extended family members (others might choose to do otherwise based on their circumstances).
 

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I agree. If someone admits wrongdoing and desires forgiveness, to stay true to my values, I should and will try to forgive them. For the same reason, I should forgive them even if they don't admit wrongdoing and apologize but that is difficult to do. In either case, I definitely won't fully trust them (or trust them at all depending on what happened) unless I see a change in their pattern of behavior. I should add, in my view, forgiving someone doesn't require that you trust them.
I suppose to me, that forgiving is like giving a free pass or a second chance. Whereas not forgiving is only not forgetting the wrongdoing, and not seeing that person positively; I can still move forward in my life and not let them get to me again, mentally or otherwise.

Which I understand to some, is what forgiving actually is (simply moving forward). I don't know, I don't define it that way...I have never forgiven abusers, for instance, and never will, and I'm not suffering internally for it. I just don't let them into my life again if they're still around in my community; I don't even think about them, usually. If someone else asks about them, I'll be honest and say I think they're full of it. I don't seek vengeance...

...though then again, I also see vengeance differently. Vengeance to me is rooted in the need to make sure a dangerous person won't continue to be dangerous, either because they're, well, dead/put out of commission, lol, or know you're nasty enough to not mess with you again, because they know what's coming to them if they do. In that light, I don't think vengeance is necessarily a bad thing...only when neither side backs down and it leads to an arms race; then it's better to consider just getting away from the person at that point.

Inappreciation is a sort of passive aggressive belittling. What lies behind it is "Oh, little you did that for me? LOL, who cares?"

"Calm confrontation"? Sure, I do something kind for someone, or have some excellent quality, and I'm obliged to not only have the responsibilities of the original appreciation-deserving action or quality but also to undertake the requirement to defend it to someone unable or insufficiently motivated to appreciate it in the first place and so unlikely to respond well to my calm educative confrontation? There's too much martyrdom inherent in making up for others' shortcomings; time to slam the door.
That's assuming rather a lot of the other person's motives. If you go looking for trouble and poor intentions, you'll find it, sure enough.

Otherwise, yes, I do think it's the courteous and kind thing to do is let someone know what's up instead of ghosting them (assuming they've shown me they can accept criticisms and might get a little good out of it, even if it's just for the next time/person--if they're only going to blow up in my face about it or use it as an excuse to guilt-trip me further...well, that's more along the lines of abusive behavior, in which case, yes I will doorslam and disappear without another thought).

Otherwise, to me ghosting is just cruel. It's not your responsibility, sure, but then, being polite isn't exactly a responsibility, yet we see where everyone being rude gets a society. Do to others what you want done to yourself, even if they're not doing it first, and kindness costs nothing to give. That's how you earn respect--you give it first (with caution ofc, because lying creeps are out there). But you can't expect it, especially if you're not being very respectful yourself. Social relationships aren't transactions, and you never know...even if being kind to that one person who didn't deserve it got you nothing that one time, the rumors may still spread and you'll find someone else paying it forward to you later on.
 
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