[angelictroublemaker]

What are the important values that you live your life by? Give some explanation.

Mine are as follows:

1) Authenticity: "And this above all, to thine own self be true", honesty with yourself and others, true to your very core.

2) Wisdom: "be wise as serpents, innocent as doves", above repproach, angelic, whilst being "cunning", wise to others intentions.

3) Nonviolence: Limiting harm, not dominating, destroying, dehumanising or diminishing others, norallowing yourself to be.

4) Tenderheartedness: To not be hard hearted when others suffer, but to empathise and to act to relieve them of pain, being kind. Vulnerable, a refusal to become old and cynical despite life's hardships.

5) Wonder: “I don’t know about you, but I practice a disorganized religion. I belong to an unholy disorder. We call ourselves “Our Lady of Perpetual Astonishment.” to be enchanted, wowed by humanity and the natural world, to never lose that childlikeness that sees all things as new, afresh, appreciating beauty.

6) Playfulness: “We don’t stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.”

 

[Daveman]

I think I'm going to have to steal three of yours. Sorry:


1. Authenticity/ Humility- I think the two go hand in had, and humility should not be confused with low self-esteem. I can see through hypocrites, and this would be number one on a list of things I devalue.

2. Tenderheartness- I think you sumed this up well in your original post.

3. Wisdom- I put this UNDER tenderheartness. Ideally, a person should have both tenderheartness and wisdom. However, for me, Forrest Gump > Adolf Hitler. The later was a miltary genuis, but that doesn't cut it for me.

4. Courage/Endurance- Never give up and be willing to do things that should be done, even if you don't want to.

5. Balance- Too much of anything is not good

There's probably more that I haven't thought of, but I'm about to go eat.

 

[Zomboy]

Duty- To always do what is right.

Courage- To stand against fear.

Benevolence- To bring people together.

Morality- To conduct oneself with politeness in public.

Truthfulness- To always be honest.

Honor- To give respect where respect is due.

Loyalty- To remain faithful to those who might need you.

The seven virtues of Bushido. This is what I believe in. Of course, there's a ton more, but I can't be arsed to type it all out.

 

[Resolution]

I wouldn't say truthfulness is a virtue. A regiment of SS soldiers shows up at your door and asks if you're hiding any jews in your house and you are.

Would you tell the truth?

Similarly, Socrates made a living off of questioning the definition of courage (or in Greek, the virtue of being without fear, Andrea). He invited generals and famous soldiers (Socrates was a soldier himself) to try to explain to him what courage was... always Socrates had counter examples. Courage is a very subjective thing. A man can be courageous in terms of one of his fears, and be a coward in regards to another fear simultaneously.

@OP Excellent List. Virtues are by what we INFJs define ourselves.

1- Integrity- Being true to yourself and your values, even if you might be tempted to abandon them for short term gain.

2- Beneficence- Wishing well for both yourself and your fellow man (I'd tie playfulness into this)

3- Wisdom- Without Wisdom, man can intend well, but unknowingly cause harm.

4- Humility

 

[Zomboy]

I wouldn't say truthfulness is a virtue. A regiment of SS soldiers shows up at your door and asks if you're hiding any jews in your house and you are.

Would you tell the truth?

Similarly, Socrates made a living off of questioning the definition of courage (or in Greek, the virtue of being without fear, Andrea). He invited generals and famous soldiers (Socrates was a soldier himself) to try to explain to him what courage was... always Socrates had counter examples. Courage is a very subjective thing. A man can be courageous in terms of one of his fears, and be a coward in regards to another fear simultaneously.

So are you saying that my ideas of virtues are all nonsense? Perhaps that bushido too, is nonsense?

Any of these virtues on their own is subject to the firing squad. But it's not about the virtues, how they are read, what they mean, or any of that. It's how you follow them that makes them virtues. Do you follow?

But, as always, this is just my opinion.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't question my ethics in the future.

 

[Resolution]

Edit need 10 characters

 

[Zomboy]

Sorry to seem tense. I'm trying my best not to be offended. Perhaps I should head elsewhere.

 

[Daveman]

I wouldn't say truthfulness is a virtue. A regiment of SS soldiers shows up at your door and asks if you're hiding any jews in your house and you are.

Would you tell the truth?

Similarly, Socrates made a living off of questioning the definition of courage (or in Greek, the virtue of being without fear, Andrea). He invited generals and famous soldiers (Socrates was a soldier himself) to try to explain to him what courage was... always Socrates had counter examples. Courage is a very subjective thing. A man can be courageous in terms of one of his fears, and be a coward in regards to another fear simultaneously.

@OP Excellent List. Virtues are by what we INFJs define ourselves.

1- Integrity- Being true to yourself and your values, even if you might be tempted to abandon them for short term gain.

2- Beneficence- Wishing well for both yourself and your fellow man (I'd tie playfulness into this)

3- Wisdom- Without Wisdom, man can intend well, but unknowingly cause harm.

4- Humility

Truthfulness still can be a virtue. Obviously, there are situations where it doesn't pay to tell the truth, but just because this is so certainly doesn't mean that dishonesty is a virtue.

You could lie to the soliders, but you could also lie about stealing from your job. And I think we would agree that these are two completley different situations. Most people would agree what the "right" thing to do would be in either situation.

"A man can be courageous in terms of one of his fears, and be a coward in regards to another fear simultaneously. "

In this case, I would value his courageousness.

I don't doubt that this is true for a lot of people. Nobody is perfect afterall.

 

[Resolution]

Truthfulness still can be a virtue. Obviously, there are situations where it doesn't pay to tell the truth, but just because this is so certainly doesn't mean that dishonesty is a virtue.

of course, dishonestly isn't a virtue. Being dishonest when it is best to be dishonest (to save the jews, for example), and being honest when it is best to be honest is the virtue.

But in that case, it isn't the honesty which holds the weight, but rather "What is best", or "wishing best for yourself and others", which is all code for beneficence, which i'd argue is the overarching principle.

You could lie to the soliders, but you could also lie about stealing from your job. And I think we would agree that these are two completley different situations. Most people would agree what the "right" thing to do would be in either situation.

Yes I agree.

"A man can be courageous in terms of one of his fears, and be a coward in regards to another fear simultaneously. "

In this case, I would value his courageousness.

I don't doubt that this is true for a lot of people. Nobody is perfect afterall.

Still... it is so hard to judge the courage of a man. Think of the hippies who fled to Canada to avoid the draft. Didn't it require courage to leave their families and their country for their anti-draft ideals?

And the other side of the coin, the soldiers that accepted the draft, even though they didn't believe in the war, weren't they courageous to face the violence?

Depending on who is judging it... both groups could be seen either as cowards or brave men.

 

[Daveman]

But in that case, it isn't the honesty which holds the weight, but rather "What is best", or "wishing best for yourself and others", which is all code for beneficence, which i'd argue is the overarching principle.

Agreed.

Actually, even humility, which I listed as number 1, could be said of this way.

If a person is bullying someone, the "right" thing to do would not be to be humble to the bully. This situation would call for aggressive action, which normal circumstances would not.

Still... it is so hard to judge the courage of a man. Think of the hippies who fled to Canada to avoid the draft. Didn't it require courage to leave their families and their country for their anti-draft ideals?

And the other side of the coin, the soldiers that accepted the draft, even though they didn't believe in the war, weren't they courageous to face the violence?

Depending on who is judging it... both groups could be seen either as cowards or brave men.

In my opinion, these are both examples of cowards. However, speaking from a more practicle standpoint, I would say that the second group is less cowardish, because they are putting themselves in more danger. Therefore, I would not be as "hard" on them.

Leaving one's family just to escape the draft is cowardish, and it is hurtful to one's family memebers. These hippies are simply worried about themselves.

Soldiers who accept the draft even if they don't belive in it are cowards, because they are not standing up for what they believe in.

 

[Zomboy]

I noticed you didn't add a description for 'humility'.

 

[killerB]

Loyalty: Be loyal to others as you wish for them to be to you. I got your back.

Kindness: Treat others how yo uwant to be treated.

Honesty: Don't lie to others, it hurts. Love with an open heart.

Laughter: Life is not all that serious, have a little bit of fun.