I went through the exact type of situation with an ISTP friend, so maybe it's just that we rub most people the wrong way.

just find an INTP friend. :happy:

I find that some INFJs, depite having Fe as their auxiliary function, succumb to a strange fickleness when it comes to emotional exchanges. This is still something that frustrates me.

Plus, I bet she does not appreciate the fact that letting people into our emotional realm is taxing on us. Personally, I suggest giving her a piece of your mind, because on some level I perceive it as a form of disrespect.

Give her time to reflect on it, not everyone feels comfortable expressing things just because the other party decides to do so. If nothing changes, let it go. Do you think you've actually put yourself in any harm in revealing yourself to her?

Oh, you INFJs.

The funny thing is, I'm currently in the opposite situation with an INFJ friend. I'm full of self-pity because I feel avoided and neglected. When my INFJ actually gets in touch with me, though, everything works itself out.

I'm not exactly sure what to offer you other than my understanding. I'd just assume there's a reason she's doing what she's doing, and try to look for it. If all else fails, you could explain to her exactly what you've written here, and say that if she can't open up to you, it's hard to stay close friends, and that this will only make her feel more avoided.

I don't know enough about the situation to know if this is helpful, but I wish you luck.

Radiant Flux said:

So, I have an infj friend who is constantly worrying that I'm avoiding her and I recently tried to address the issue by have a heart to heart conversation with her. I revealed my complete self, true and vulnerable, and when I told her to do the same the blatantly avoided it.

This almost brought me to frustrated tears, because if seems that if I expressed all of myself to her, she should be able to do the same. It is not an easy thing for me to do, you see, because if makes me feel weak and vulnerable.

Your thoughts and/or advice on dealing with her?

**this is sort of a rant**

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How old is your friend? INFJ's will be transparent about things they want to be. You can't force them to talk about things they don't want to. For whatever reason she isn't comfortable telling you. She'll probably get around to it.

I'm very open about most things to people I consider good friends, but there are still some things I won't talk about until I'm ready.

Could be an unhealthy INFJ, or maybe she has a real reason for not trusting you. Hard to say.

My initiating ability on a scale of 10 is also about a 3. Luckily my INTP friend knows this.

You opened up to your friend because it was your personal decision to do so, not because you wanted to coerce her into opening up back at you, ya? Imho, inner world of people is their private business, and so this kind of deal is their personal choice as well and should be left up to them.

Another thing with INFJs - it is difficult to formulate things we think about into words. Imagine your mind is filled with these dense packets of data (matrices is what I heard them described as) and they are all interconnected into a larger packet, and even larger packet beyond that. And you're a near-sighted person and can't very well tell the details apart in these packets so it just looks like one gigantic ball of concepts, ideas, details and emotions all rolled into one. It is not an easy task to put all that into linear speech and label all parts with just the correct words. If the INFJs develops more Ti this makes it easier to communicate, but that usually doesn't happen until mid 20s-30s.

Way to deal with the above: be supporting, non critical or judgmental, and wait.

I appreciate what you did, as I am sure it is quite difficult for an INTP to open up in the first place. That is very commendable. Did you share your "emotional self" (How you feel about things) or your "thinking self" (Where your head is) ?

For me, both forms would take some time to fiqure out. I would need to consider what exactly you said; see and understand what areas we had in common; where we may have disharmony; and what could and can be done about it. --- Then, and only then, would I share back. --- As a respect for the other person involved.

Clarity is very important to us, both in receiving and in sharing. The entire process must be allowed to go through our internal structure (with time) before we know how to respond... especially if this is the first time this "form of information" has been shared.

Radiant Flux said:

So, I have an infj friend who is constantly worrying that I'm avoiding her and I recently tried to address the issue by have a heart to heart conversation with her. I revealed my complete self, true and vulnerable, and when I told her to do the same the blatantly avoided it.

This almost brought me to frustrated tears, because if seems that if I expressed all of myself to her, she should be able to do the same. It is not an easy thing for me to do, you see, because if makes me feel weak and vulnerable.

Your thoughts and/or advice on dealing with her?

**this is sort of a rant**

Click to expand...

Hmm... I actually have an INFJ friend as well, only that I'm the one worriing that she's avoiding me. I try to open up to her, in any way possible, but when I ask for her to open up, she refuses. It's kind of confusing. She tries to help me in any way and is also way smarter than me, but sometimes I feel like she just doesn't actually care about me and what I have to say, 'cause she doesn't open up in return. But then again, I never did get what is sopose to be private and what not. As long as it's interesting, I'm willing to share... If you care.

Sometimes we don't really say anything because we want to have a perfect response, and we feel like we're disappointing you if we don't have something amazing to say back. I always want to have something great to say in response, whether it's making the person laugh, smile or whatever. Sometimes instead of saying something less than stellar, I just don't respond at all.

It was very bold of you to do so to her, and the intense flow of information at that moment may have overwhelmed her

As a result, she may just need time to process the data

You are not weak and vulnerable, or at least not anymore.

Seems like INTPs have a kind of love/hate relationship with INFJs lol...my best friend is one and I am often very frustrated with her, but then we hang out and it's all good again.

I don't blame them, the INFJ can be very emotional which is off-putting to the firm articulation of the INTP's mind

Though my opinion may be biased. I hold an affection for the INTP

They make very clever schemers, they do...

SaraBell said:

Seems like INTPs have a kind of love/hate relationship with INFJs lol...my best friend is one and I am often very frustrated with her, but then we hang out and it's all good again.

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Tell me about it. :dry:

:wink:

SaraBell said:

Seems like INTPs have a kind of love/hate relationship with INFJs

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Hey, not sure if this'll help or not, but I know that I hate it when I feel like I'm obligated to do something.. Even if I was going to do it anyway.. So that could be a reason why she's not opening up, and if that's the case, it might be good to drop it.. Also.. What do you really expect her to reveal about herself? Some people just don't have really huge worries..

Anyway, in the end, you know and understand your friend much better than anyone on this forum.. So I'm sure you'll figure out the best way to deal with the situation. Good luck.

so true.

@op i don't understand how a heart to heart about her perception of you avoiding her turned into you making yourself vulnerable. Did she expect you to open up like that? As mentioned, that might have caught her off guard and she needs time to process it. And is reciprocation manadatory? I know my 2 best friends get frustrated with me because after knowing them 10 years they still don't know the extent (if any) of my experience with sex or drugs. I am very private about those things as it's something only I fully know and mostly don't want to be judged or have other's perception of me altered. Even though they've opened up to me I never expected it and am happy just to be there for them and give advice as necessary. If there's something your friend wants to share with you I'm sure she will, just be patient and understanding.

entropy said:

Sometimes we don't really say anything because we want to have a perfect response, and we feel like we're disappointing you if we don't have something amazing to say back. I always want to have something great to say in response, whether it's making the person laugh, smile or whatever. Sometimes instead of saying something less than stellar, I just don't respond at all.

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not opening up ≠not caring

INFJs relish being the confidante. You said she tries to help you. She might not need help from you in return (or have any confessions that match yours on the interesting scale...and intelligence doesn't matter for that) and is happy just to be there for you. Keep sharing, I'm sure she finds you fascinating, you're an INTP afterall:wink:

Saint Darkness72 said:

Hmm... I actually have an INFJ friend as well, only that I'm the one worriing that she's avoiding me. I try to open up to her, in any way possible, but when I ask for her to open up, she refuses. It's kind of confusing. She tries to help me in any way and is also way smarter than me, but sometimes I feel like she just doesn't actually care about me and what I have to say, 'cause she doesn't open up in return. But then again, I never did get what is sopose to be private and what not. As long as it's interesting, I'm willing to share... If you care.

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Yeah, I know. But I said I "feel" like she doesn't care, not that I think that, and you can't change what you feel just like that, now can you? Also, it's just confusing, 'cause she helps just about anyone, and then just backs up back to what she was doing before. Sometimes it seems kind of illusionary, like, as I said before, she wouldn't really care. And I try to share, but sometimes she won't listen, or, more probably, just doesn't have time to listen. And I'm sure she has her secrets, she's just very private 'bout that stuff. And I'm not sure she finds me interesting. I had to halfly force her into the whole MBTI thing, rofl. :tongue: Also, I'm starting to think I'm an INFP, not an INTP.

Belle Starr said:

not opening up ≠not caring

INFJs relish being the confidante. You said she tries to help you. She might not need help from you in return (or have any confessions that match yours on the interesting scale...and intelligence doesn't matter for that) and is happy just to be there for you. Keep sharing, I'm sure she finds you fascinating, you're an INTP afterall:wink:

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Don't blame it on all INFJ's. And even if you did decide to, that's just who we are...
Anyway, here's something I've learnt in psychology.
There are three ways you can act in a situation:
Submissive- Don't stand up for yourself, and shying up from what you want to say.
Assertive- Stand up for yourself without offending the other person.
Aggressive- Stand up for yourself, not being considerate of the other person.
INFJ's can often be classified as Submissive and TP's can sometimes act in agressive ways. Try being more assertive by thinking about what your actions will cause. Hope I helped :wink:

My fraternal twin sister is an INFJ. She is one of the few people in the world that I will say I love unconditionally and would risk my life for. I love her to pieces. Yet, I have to watch myself and make sure I don't "push her buttons" when she is getting emotional and we are debating (or, as she calls it "fighting"). I can and have deeply upset her before because for me, the debate and being logical is important, and I will and can hurt her. Later, when I analyze everything, I know what I did and regret her being upset, but by then damage has already been done so I try very hard to remember she is an INFJ and the behavior that annoys me is not her trying to annoy me, and that some of my INTP traits annoy her (she will tell me I am a shit disturber and "deliberately contrary" for instance, terms I don't agree with, but I can see why INFJs might view us like that). I also notice that when I am brutally honest and share my weaknesses with her, she sometimes ignores them if she doesn't want to face the issue, and that bugs me.

I think if she wasn't my twin and we didn't have such a close bond, she would have ditched me long ago. roud: I have to keep remembering that being right and winning an argument is not necessarily worth upsetting someone if that person ends up getting really upset. Unfortunately, what upsets a lot of people is not what I find upsetting, so it's not instinctual for me.

2 of the 3 people in my life that I am closest to are INFJs, actually (my twin sister and a really good guy friend I have) and my other friend claims she is an INTP, but she seems close but I think she could just as easily be an INTJ. When she makes up her mind it stays much more MADE UP than mine does, but she is also 21 years older than me. She also works in customer relations, trouble shooting computer problems, and I would go stark raving looney toons trouble-shooting computer problems all day and dealing with people who do things like using the CD-ROM drive as a "coffee cup holder".

I can see why INFJs might bug INTPs, though. :laughing: I can also see why INFJs might find us INTPs "inconsiderate" and "argumentative" (fictional INTPs imo: Sam Winchester from "Supernatural", Luke Skywalker from Star Wars, that little kid David from "AI: Aritifical Intelligence).... wait... who thinks Teddy from AI might be an INTP?

Also, when I am annoyed with her I tend to call her an "emo" and a "crybaby" and a "suck up" (especially when I was a kid) and when she is mad at me she calls me a "shit disturber" and a "trouble maker"- the amusing thing is, she seems to take offense at what I call her, but I don't really care if she thinks I am a trouble maker or a shit disturber. I don't think I am and I know she is annoyed with me, but even if she really thought I was both of those things... I wouldn't really care.