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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So INFJ's are J's, but we still have issues sometimes with J things like procrastination, motivation, discipline, consistency, timeliness, and decisiveness. INTJ's sometimes have similar issues with inertia and simply avoiding life for fear of failure. I attribute this to being Perceiving dominant (Ni), but I'd like to know your thoughts about how and why this manifests and what it's like for you. How are you like a J and how are you not and what is the psychology and type theory like behind it?
 

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Not sure about INTJs, but I think I come off more stereotypically "Jish" than a lot of the FJs I've known. At least in regards to working with INFJs and ESFJs specifically.
 

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I'm a 'J' (Te is my strongest function), but I still struggle with procrastination. I know there are things that need to be done, but my hatred for those tasks is so immense that it takes every ounce of will I have to stay on track.
 

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The J/P dichotomy in MBTI is misleading because INTJ's are primarily dominant Percievers (Introverted Intuition is a Perception function). Inferior Se, repressed by dominant Ni, does indeed give a layer of inertia to INTJ's. They might need external motivational force at times to keep them engaged with the world.
This is a common misconception. To clarify, the culprit lies within type dynamics. The J/P dichotomy stands very well on its own much like the Conscientiousness domain of the Big Five.
 

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Nope. Nope nope nope. You say that INFJs struggle with discipline, consistency, timeliness, and the like, but these aren't INFJ problems. They're your problems. Most INFJs I've met excel in these areas.

As a J type, INFJs are undeniably more "J" than their prospecting counterpart, INFP.

I wish you the best of luck with your problems, pal.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Would anyone like to provide some specific examples from their own lives or of people you know?
 

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Nope. Nope nope nope. You say that INFJs struggle with discipline, consistency, timeliness, and the like, but these aren't INFJ problems. They're your problems. Most INFJs I've met excel in these areas.

As a J type, INFJs are undeniably more "J" than their prospecting counterpart, INFP.

I wish you the best of luck with your problems, pal.
I would offer that those "INFJs" you know are actually ISFJs.

SJs are very reliable and hard-working people.
 

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Gotta agree somewhat with @lackofmops here. Most INFJs (including myself) are very well-endowed when it comes to J traits. Our Ni thrives on advance preparation and organizational perfection. It's what we do.

Now, I do find that there are some INFJs-- a minority subgroup, if you will-- that (and maybe are mistyped INFPs) mistype as or are at least similar to INFPs. In contrast to us INxJ-leaning INFJs, these people are far more dreamy and disengaged and seem perceiver-like. So perhaps it is this subgroup to which you are referring, but if so, it does not apply to all INFJs, and certainly not to all Ni-types (like I said, Ni is an inherently J function).

As a sidenote, I'd guess that enneagram comes into play here, too. For example, INFJ 1s and 6s are more likely to be more J-like INFJs, while 4s and 9s may be the ones to fall under the aforementioned subtype.
 
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Nope. Nope nope nope. You say that INFJs struggle with discipline, consistency, timeliness, and the like, but these aren't INFJ problems. They're your problems. Most INFJs I've met excel in these areas.

As a J type, INFJs are undeniably more "J" than their prospecting counterpart, INFP.

I wish you the best of luck with your problems, pal.
I know an ENTJ who almost cried in front of me because his home life was falling apart. Drawing from that, based on your reasoning, ENTJs struggle with emotional expression and getting themselves into bad circumstances. Do you agree? Probably not. It's nonsensical to lump people of the same type together and assume that they're always going to excel or fail at certain things simply because of their MB. Even if you have met INFJs who are generally disciplined, you can't take those experiences and use them to determine how every INFJ is going to act.

INFJs are known to have procrastination problems. It's such a widespread joke in Myers-Briggs discussions that I'm surprised at it being questioned here.
 

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I struggle with procrastination (I'm actually procrastinating as we speak). I'm not a very good "J" as far as external matters go; I'm more about the organization in my head. When it comes to examining whatever thought or emotion pops up, I am incredibly stringent.

I had a discussion about this with someone recently (an ENFP -- the inquisitor of INxJs, if you will) and we eventually came to the conclusion that INxJs who struggle with procrastination and timeliness work this way because they've learned that they work best on their toes. An INTJ acquaintance of mine who preaches sermons will literally make up his points as he's sitting in the audience, then deliver whatever he came up with as if he's been honing it for weeks. In my college classes I often wait until the day-of to turn in my assignments, and then I end up getting 100 while people who spent days preparing get lower grades.

While this is something that I find useful about myself, I don't like that I've used it to my advantage so often. I believe that if I keep it up and don't practice some discipline, it's going to come around and bite me one of these days. As of yet, I haven't faced any real, damaging consequences. Part of me wishes that I would just so I could learn my lesson.

If I'm given time to over-think things, then I will, and that usually results in poorer quality in my work. Spontaneity favors me for some reason, but I know that this won't always be the case. It hasn't been, in some instances. There were times when I knew I could have turned in better quality assignments if I had given myself more time (but even then, I usually get at least a 90 on those).

I believe that this is a result of a weird, somewhat broken Ni/Ti (where INFJs are concerned, obviously). For one, my Ni has been fed with the idea that I can get away with last-minute work, and so it has more reason to make me believe that I don't need to work on my procrastination problem. My Ti gets stressed out if it's given to broad of an idea to work with ("Well, I have to write an essay about Confucian application in law... how am I going to write this, exactly? Too many ideas..."), and it won't break down and actually do something until it has to -- the last minute.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Nope. Nope nope nope. You say that INFJs struggle with discipline, consistency, timeliness, and the like, but these aren't INFJ problems. They're your problems. Most INFJs I've met excel in these areas.

As a J type, INFJs are undeniably more "J" than their prospecting counterpart, INFP.

I wish you the best of luck with your problems, pal.
Au contraire; I am on a facebook group for only INFJ's and someone asked a question about qualities you don't have but admire, and several people talked about these problems. Procrastination was a big one. This is why I wanted to gather more information on the subject, because it does seem to be a pattern. I highly doubt all these people are mistyped INFP's. Obviously not every INJ will have the same issues to the same degree, and I do think it reflects somewhat the strength of the J preference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I struggle with procrastination (I'm actually procrastinating as we speak). I'm not a very good "J" as far as external matters go; I'm more about the organization in my head. When it comes to examining whatever thought or emotion pops up, I am incredibly stringent.

I had a discussion about this with someone recently (an ENFP -- the inquisitor of INxJs, if you will) and we eventually came to the conclusion that INxJs who struggle with procrastination and timeliness work this way because they've learned that they work best on their toes. An INTJ acquaintance of mine who preaches sermons will literally make up his points as he's sitting in the audience, then deliver whatever he came up with as if he's been honing it for weeks. In my college classes I often wait until the day-of to turn in my assignments, and then I end up getting 100 while people who spent days preparing get lower grades.

While this is something that I find useful about myself, I don't like that I've used it to my advantage so often. I believe that if I keep it up and don't practice some discipline, it's going to come around and bite me one of these days. As of yet, I haven't faced any real, damaging consequences. Part of me wishes that I would just so I could learn my lesson.

If I'm given time to over-think things, than I will, and that usually results in poorer quality in my work. Spontaneity favors me for some reason, but I know that this won't always be the case. It hasn't been, in some instances. There were times when I knew I could have turned in better quality assignments if I had given myself more time (but even then, I usually get at least a 90 on those).

I believe that this is a result of a weird, somewhat broken Ni/Ti (where INFJs are concerned, obviously). For one, my Ni has been fed with the idea that I can get away with last-minute work, and so it has more reason to make me believe that I don't need to work on my procrastination problem. My Ti gets stressed out if it's given to broad of an idea to work with ("Well, I have to write an essay about Confucian application in law... how am I going to write this, exactly? Too many ideas..."), and it won't break down and actually do something until it has to -- the last minute.
I've never been able to consistently or reliably do this, although I can relate to the Ni-Ti bit. I have to at least have several well thought out ideas to work with if I am going to pull something off at the last minute. In high school I was a huge procrastinator because I daydreamed all the time and feared failure, and it didn't work out well at all. In college I got my act together and finally started acting like a real J and it felt good. I still would sometimes simply not be able to finish my philosophy papers until the last minute (and one time had to ask for an extension) because like you say, there were too many possibilities for what to say and I couldn't think of how to be specific enough. That was another problem. Ni thinks an idea makes perfect sense and there is great logic in it but then when you go to actually write about it you realize you can't really put it into words normal people understand. What I would do is start thinking about the idea for a paper immediately, and just keep developing and refining it until I basically have a good outline; this would take most of the time before the deadline. Then I would write a rough draft and edit it according to comments.
 
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So INFJ's are J's, but we still have issues sometimes with J things like procrastination, motivation, discipline, consistency, timeliness, and decisiveness. INTJ's sometimes have similar issues with inertia and simply avoiding life for fear of failure. I attribute this to being Perceiving dominant (Ni), but I'd like to know your thoughts about how and why this manifests and what it's like for you. How are you like a J and how are you not and what is the psychology and type theory like behind it?
I think this just is related to interest. I'm an INTJ so I'll limit myself to my type. When something is very interesting to an INTJ he'll be on top of it like an ENTJ. Te will be leading here. But if it's not interesting enough and just something that has to be done, then procrastination will happen.

As a contrast, ENTJ's don't have this problem. They just can't stand the fact that it's not done yet even if they hate the task they have to do. If they believe it has to be done they'll prioritize it and won't rest until they get it done.

INTJ's have this strongly with knowledge seeking. When they haven't figured something out yet, they'll keep going at it until they have figured it out. This is more internal so less visible to the outside world.
 

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I've noticed Infjs seem to either drift one of two ways. One stays Infj, the other develops Ti-Se, which compromises Ni-Fe to a noticeable extent. I feel that the first route is not very challenging, but I can't say that its necessarily bad. The world can use a little bit of classic Infj. The second route is extremely challenging, but I've experienced that true growth comes from it. You can handle more things that come your way, and are less likely to write off situations or people. Some people say that Ni is a perceiving function, I strongly disagree. It is fundamentally a function that looks to categorize things and box them up. While it is a great function, it leads to some noticeable downfalls. It tends to discriminate things that really should be looked at in a little more depth. A well developed Ti can serve that purpose, and a little Se can aid in putting an idea into fruition.

This is heavily my own experience, which is full of subjective factors, so I'm not proposing some sort of unifying theory or anything. People have different goals that might not need Ti very much.
 

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Nope. Nope nope nope. You say that INFJs struggle with discipline, consistency, timeliness, and the like, but these aren't INFJ problems. They're your problems. Most INFJs I've met excel in these areas.

As a J type, INFJs are undeniably more "J" than their prospecting counterpart, INFP.

I wish you the best of luck with your problems, pal.
The INFJs you know may be ISFJs. They do have all the qualities like discipline, timeliness, and consistency.

My mother is ISFJ and I have two ex BFs and one of my best friends being ISFJs. I (INFJ) am definitely the lazy one compare to them. The most telling is work. They get the work done before play. I procrastinate and always wait until the last minute to finish school work or work work. I am on time when the event is important otherwise I tend to be slightly late to arrive.
 
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I think this just is related to interest. I'm an INTJ so I'll limit myself to my type. When something is very interesting to an INTJ he'll be on top of it like an ENTJ. Te will be leading here. But if it's not interesting enough and just something that has to be done, then procrastination will happen.

As a contrast, ENTJ's don't have this problem. They just can't stand the fact that it's not done yet even if they hate the task they have to do. If they believe it has to be done they'll prioritize it and won't rest until they get it done.

INTJ's have this strongly with knowledge seeking. When they haven't figured something out yet, they'll keep going at it until they have figured it out. This is more internal so less visible to the outside world.
I am the same as an INFJ. I am on it only when I am interested otherwise I can't be bothered or I'd procrastinate. When I am interested to know something, I'd search high and low to find information until I feel it's done. I call it my "fire". It burns inside that nobody sees because I tend to go at it alone.
 
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Gotta agree somewhat with @lackofmops here. Most INFJs (including myself) are very well-endowed when it comes to J traits. Our Ni thrives on advance preparation and organizational perfection. It's what we do.

Now, I do find that there are some INFJs-- a minority subgroup, if you will-- that (and maybe are mistyped INFPs) mistype as or are at least similar to INFPs. In contrast to us INxJ-leaning INFJs, these people are far more dreamy and disengaged and seem perceiver-like. So perhaps it is this subgroup to which you are referring, but if so, it does not apply to all INFJs, and certainly not to all Ni-types (like I said, Ni is an inherently J function).

As a sidenote, I'd guess that enneagram comes into play here, too. For example, INFJ 1s and 6s are more likely to be more J-like INFJs, while 4s and 9s may be the ones to fall under the aforementioned subtype.
I think you are mixing apples and oranges. I am very organized in my mind and in regards to my belongings. My job is analytical in nature. This is why I can procrastinate but get the work done faster than my workers because I have a system to connect dots in my mind.

Friends comment on how organized and prepared I am. Yet I still procrastinate and struggle with discipline issue when it's something I am not interested in doing (chores).
 
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