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Discussion Starter #1
I've developed a shame-based personality over time and I think a major part of it is due to my slow processing -- almost inaccessible Introverted Feeling function.

It's not only about having a hard time knowing what I feel, but feeling deeply divided as well. My therapist would start off every session asking me how I felt about this or that and I would draw blanks each time...

I also find that when I'm in the midst of some kind of heated conflict with someone, my Introverted Feeling button gets stuck, so that I don't know what to answer back in a moment when I should be defending myself. I get the answers much later when the conflict is long past.

Can anyone relate to this? Why is it I feel so lost in this area of my being?
 

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It's not only about having a hard time knowing what I feel, but feeling deeply divided as well. My therapist would start off every session asking me how I felt about this or that and I would draw blanks each time...

For me that was because I was told so much growing up, "you shouldn't feel that way". So I got to a point in adulthood where I didn't even know how I felt, other than maybe bad. I remember my counselor asking me, "do you feel mad, sad or glad?" and I would really have to think about it.

I also find that when I'm in the midst of some kind of heated conflict with someone, my Introverted Feeling button gets stuck, so that I don't know what to answer back in a moment when I should be defending myself. I get the answers much later when the conflict is long past.
I am the same way, but I don't know why...I don't think that fast on my feet for some reason. Maybe it is a good thing to not be so glib.
 

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You're having an introverted discussion with yourself. I often have these types of interactions in my head where I forget or just neglect to speak, instead responding with brief or single word answers.

It's far easier to just claim that "I don't know" how I feel or give a cryptic, non-sensical response than delve into my true feelings.

In heated conversations, I choose not to respond, because it's typically done out of anger or frustration. My first instinct is to end the conversation through physical violence or abusive language and yelling. In order to avoid self-destruction, I become less of a participant and more of a listener. In reality, I simply internalize the negativity in order to keep it from flowing out onto other people.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
For me that was because I was told so much growing up, "you shouldn't feel that way". So I got to a point in adulthood where I didn't even know how I felt, other than maybe bad. I remember my counselor asking me, "do you feel mad, sad or glad?" and I would really have to think about it.



I am the same way, but I don't know why...I don't think that fast on my feet for some reason. Maybe it is a good thing to not be so glib.
In my case I think I struggle in this area primarily because of how I'm wired and not so much my family background. I can attribute many things to my childhood but not that. I think.

I'm fast on my feet when it comes to being witty and joking, but when it comes to feelings, I get somewhat constipated.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
You're having an introverted discussion with yourself. I often have these types of interactions in my head where I forget or just neglect to speak, instead responding with brief or single word answers.

It's far easier to just claim that "I don't know" how I feel or give a cryptic, non-sensical response than delve into my true feelings.

In heated conversations, I choose not to respond, because it's typically done out of anger or frustration. My first instinct is to end the conversation through physical violence or abusive language and yelling. In order to avoid self-destruction, I become less of a participant and more of a listener. In reality, I simply internalize the negativity in order to keep it from flowing out onto other people.
My first instincts are quite raw and primal. I therefore have to resist the temptation to express myself because it becomes too intense for me... very life threatening and I tremble for days...
 

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What? Feelings? I don't have those. Lol! :tongue:

I understand how you feel RomanticEditor.

Whenever I get mad or angry, it's like things start to bounce off and away from me towards the other person or event. I have to get really, really mad with something I did before I start to feel bad inside. Perhaps it's a defense mechanism, but I think it's a suppressed Fi.

And I'm thankful that I don't need to use Fi. I couldn't imagine trying to navigate the external world with internal feelings. I'm already sensitive to seemingly insignificant nuances, and to associate my feelings with those kinds of things, e.g. "You're making me feel bad", would kill me! I would feel so helpless, because other people would be able to make ME feel bad (instead of being able to point the finger at the culprit himself).
 

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What? Feelings? I don't have those. Lol! :tongue:

I understand how you feel RomanticEditor.

Whenever I get mad or angry, it's like things start to bounce off and away from me towards the other person or event. I have to get really, really mad with something I did before I start to feel bad inside. Perhaps it's a defense mechanism, but I think it's a suppressed Fi.

And I'm thankful that I don't need to use Fi. I couldn't imagine trying to navigate the external world with internal feelings. I'm already sensitive to seemingly insignificant nuances, and to associate my feelings with those kinds of things, e.g. "You're making me feel bad", would kill me! I would feel so helpless, because other people would be able to make ME feel bad (instead of being able to point the finger at the culprit himself).
I've never thought about the idea of not having Fi as an advantage. Hmmm? I'll have to think about that one (in case I cannot feel it). Ha ha.
 

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I've never thought about the idea of not having Fi as an advantage. Hmmm? I'll have to think about that one (in case I cannot feel it). Ha ha.
Lol! :laughing:

But could you imagine Fi? Someone cuts you off in the parking lot, you feel bad. The dinner rolls get burned, you feel bad. Your neighbor lets his dog relieve itself on your grass, you feel bad.

I'd be afraid to step outside of my house if I had to go by Fi! At least with Ni, if something doesn't fit or add up, then it just doesn't.
 

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I've developed a shame-based personality over time and I think a major part of it is due to my slow processing -- almost inaccessible Introverted Feeling function.

It's not only about having a hard time knowing what I feel, but feeling deeply divided as well. My therapist would start off every session asking me how I felt about this or that and I would draw blanks each time... I also find that when I'm in the midst of some kind of heated conflict with someone, my Introverted Feeling button gets stuck, so that I don't know what to answer back in a moment when I should be defending myself. I get the answers much later when the conflict is long past.

Can anyone relate to this? Why is it I feel so lost in this area of my being?
I think my Fi is quite low for an INFJ which might be kind of sad because I have usually wondered why it might be so low. I have over time especially now developed my Ti highly over a short time period so I think a consequence of doing so have caused me to ramp down my Fi quite well and I think it is similar for other INFJs as well at a point during their lives. I don't know what time years you are at but it is said according to theory that an INFJ's Ti begin to develop quite intense in early adolescence so that might be the case for me at least.

I think a good thing with us INFJs is that we might have capacity of high empathy and being aware of our to a certain extent and others emotional / feeling (and perhaps mental) states to a high degree and have the capacity to stay “calm” at the same time. Think it this way that a healthy INFJ (in my opinion, of course) should have highly developed Ti but also Fe. I think I handle conflict quite well even though I do not like it and would prefer to avoid it and so on. I don't get easily offended (well I might; but I sort of get over it quite quick) and I can handle bluntness and people can generally be honest with me so long as I am not feeling too bad (I am a HSP to boot).

I think I am excellent at handling situations diplomatically AND "rationally" to a certain extent and avoid pitfalls that perhaps the average person might fall into. Perhaps this has nothing to do with me being INFJ but perhaps a skill in general; I don't know. It is like being detached and emotionally aware of others (feelings) at the same time BUT not always myself I can tell -- I'm feeling confused a lot of times when somebody ask me how I feel as I can't honestly always answer it. To be honest I think there are times when I know what others feel much more than what I feel myself and I wonder how the hell that might work out. However I've developed an ability to stop worrying when I might otherwise feel worry and I consider that an improvement. I identify my emotions of both myself and others just as they come up and I generally control my own quite well at will.

Yeah so you are not alone. I definitely don't want my Fi lower than it is now because I think a lot of personal motivation and beauty of human existence comes from that function and I think even as I don't have it that high does not mean Fi is less useful (on the contrary). I think I envy domFi's to a certain extent and repressing Fi might be dangerous. I've heard people with high Fi are able to do the stuff that I explained here as well so none of my post intend that those with high Fi does not have capacity to control emotions (and feelings) and I think on the contrary. Still remember considering you are INFJ that Fe can imitate somewhat of a Fi thanks to Ni but it is nothing like the real Fi.
 

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I have had many times where something horrible has happened and I feel apathetic to it til after. (Break ups, being robbed, watching someone get killed, having someone close die)
 

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I've developed a shame-based personality over time and I think a major part of it is due to my slow processing -- almost inaccessible Introverted Feeling function.

It's not only about having a hard time knowing what I feel, but feeling deeply divided as well. My therapist would start off every session asking me how I felt about this or that and I would draw blanks each time...

I also find that when I'm in the midst of some kind of heated conflict with someone, my Introverted Feeling button gets stuck, so that I don't know what to answer back in a moment when I should be defending myself. I get the answers much later when the conflict is long past.

Can anyone relate to this? Why is it I feel so lost in this area of my being?
Wow, yes.

It's interesting you refer to yourself as having a 'shame based personality'. I'm so very grateful you bring that up, my heart almost stopped when I did a quick google search of toxic shame.. I'm definately going to read more about it.

I was seeing a therapist for a while, and he'd ask me questions, and I'd just start crying. He'd ask me why I was crying, and I wouldnt be able to give him an answer because I simply didn't know. I would assume I was sad about certain events he talked about, but I didnt recognise it as sadness. It was almost as if I was numb. But completely overwhelmed at the same time.. that sounds so illogical. I dunno how to better describe it, perhaps feeling things that seem unfamiliar and thus not being able to recognise or label them? I cant access my own emotions? I don't know. I haven't come close to discovering what it's all to do with.. but the idea of toxic shame I can certainly relate to. I'm fairly sure it's deep rooted in my childhood.

I have difficulty explicating both my emotions and opinions which is very frustrating and confusing. I go through phases of being completely overwhelmed, and just being void, like addle. I just distrust and reject everything I think and feel. Its not even conscious dialogue anymore. Everything just gets shut off straight away.

How are you going about making sense of it? have you made progress over time?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Lol! :laughing:

But could you imagine Fi? Someone cuts you off in the parking lot, you feel bad. The dinner rolls get burned, you feel bad. Your neighbor lets his dog relieve itself on your grass, you feel bad.

I'd be afraid to step outside of my house if I had to go by Fi! At least with Ni, if something doesn't fit or add up, then it just doesn't.
Okay, I see where you're going and yet we often feel bad through our highly developed Fe function, so that when others are upset, we feel it acutely.

I guess what you want to say is, that we don’t have the burden of our own feelings on top of that other mess… Please correct me if I’m off...
 

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Okay, I see where you're going and yet we often feel bad through our highly developed Fe function, so that when others are upset, we feel it acutely.

I guess what you want to say is, that we don’t have the burden of our own feelings on top of that other mess… Please correct me if I’m off...
We get upset, because our extraverted feelings direct us that way. It's not that when others are upset we are upset, it's that we get upset with people or events themselves. For example, if I get mad at John Smith, then I am mad at him; I am not mad inside if I am upset with him.

We do not take the outside world and turn it into internal feelings. Our feelings are directed towards external stimuli.

By being "protectors", our feelings are projected towards the offending people in order to protect the victim.

Our introversion is by way of iNtuition and Thinking. Feeling and Sensing are extraverted (even though we are introverts).
 

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Discussion Starter #14
We get upset, because our extraverted feelings direct us that way. It's not that when others are upset we are upset, it's that we get upset with people or events themselves. For example, if I get mad at John Smith, then I am mad at him; I am not mad inside if I am upset with him.

We do not take the outside world and turn it into internal feelings. Our feelings are directed towards external stimuli.

By being "protectors", our feelings are projected towards the offending people in order to protect the victim.

Our introversion is by way of iNtuition and Thinking. Feeling and Sensing are extraverted (even though we are introverts).
Hmmmm? Okay, what about this scenerio. A friend is in a bad mood and I perceive his or her bad mood. How does Fe operate there? I guess I'm so ingrained with what I thought Fe was that I don't follow you. Perhaps I just need to digest it. Do you know where can I read more about extraverted feelings (along the same thought line)?
 

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Hmmmm? Okay, what about this scenerio. A friend is in a bad mood and I perceive his or her bad mood. How does Fe operate there? I guess I'm so ingrained with what I thought Fe was that I don't follow you. Perhaps I just need to digest it. Do you know where can I read more about extraverted feelings (along the same thought line)?
You perceive his or her bad mood, because it's external. You feel others, because they are outside you (along with your Fe).

I'll have to do some research. But here's a quick link ( Extraverted Feeling ). Fe... "Often with this process, we feel pulled to be responsible and take care of others’ feelings"


ETA: Ok. Real quick... The way that I figured out that I'm not an MBTI INFP is because my way of sensing is not internal (Si). I have a problem remembering colors and forgetting how things truly taste, because I can't really internalize my senses. Sure, I remember pizza and ice cream, but I can't really explain what it tastes like, because my senses are fleeting and insufficient when compared to my other functions.
You probably have a difficult time expressing YOUR feelings, because your Fi is suppressed (as it should be since you use Fe). You can express or understand what other people feel (because they are external to you), but whenever it comes to yourself, you feel lost about YOUR feelings... but you shouldn't, because you are lucky to not have to deal with processing things that are out of your control through internal values or feelings.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
You perceive his or her bad mood, because it's external. You feel others, because they are outside you (along with your Fe).

I'll have to do some research. But here's a quick link ( Extraverted Feeling ). Fe... "Often with this process, we feel pulled to be responsible and take care of others’ feelings"


ETA: Ok. Real quick... The way that I figured out that I'm not an MBTI INFP is because my way of sensing is not internal (Si). I have a problem remembering colors and forgetting how things truly taste, because I can't really internalize my senses. Sure, I remember pizza and ice cream, but I can't really explain what it tastes like, because my senses are fleeting and insufficient when compared to my other functions.
You probably have a difficult time expressing YOUR feelings, because your Fi is suppressed (as it should be since you use Fe). You can express or understand what other people feel (because they are external to you), but whenever it comes to yourself, you feel lost about YOUR feelings... but you shouldn't, because you are lucky to not have to deal with processing things that are out of your control through internal values or feelings.
I greatly appreciate you taking time to explain Fe vs. Fi to me. The concepts are indeed complex. I'm not only having to integrate this new information, but blot out my past misconceptions too.

It's wonderful to be learning new insights about how we are wired. So many years of living in the same body while not understanding... gets frustrating. As the Scriptures say, the truth has power to set us free.

Bye for now...
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Wow, yes.

It's interesting you refer to yourself as having a 'shame based personality'. I'm so very grateful you bring that up, my heart almost stopped when I did a quick google search of toxic shame.. I'm definately going to read more about it.

I was seeing a therapist for a while, and he'd ask me questions, and I'd just start crying. He'd ask me why I was crying, and I wouldnt be able to give him an answer because I simply didn't know. I would assume I was sad about certain events he talked about, but I didnt recognise it as sadness. It was almost as if I was numb. But completely overwhelmed at the same time.. that sounds so illogical. I dunno how to better describe it, perhaps feeling things that seem unfamiliar and thus not being able to recognise or label them? I cant access my own emotions? I don't know. I haven't come close to discovering what it's all to do with.. but the idea of toxic shame I can certainly relate to. I'm fairly sure it's deep rooted in my childhood.

I have difficulty explicating both my emotions and opinions which is very frustrating and confusing. I go through phases of being completely overwhelmed, and just being void, like addle. I just distrust and reject everything I think and feel. Its not even conscious dialogue anymore. Everything just gets shut off straight away.

How are you going about making sense of it? have you made progress over time?
I'm glad I could be of help to you *happy*. As far as progress is concerned, I can at least say I've gotten onto the path of self-awareness... a vague idea that I don't understand myself or my emotions too well and that there's probably no cure for it. Perhaps acceptance is the only progress I'll ever see. What do you think?
 

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A lot of times, I don't know what I want anymore. It's really frustrating because I feel like there are so many distractions (aka people) that occupy my brain like it's their Florida beach house, not that I don't care for them. Now I have to stop and think about how I feel for a moment. How ridiculous is that?
 
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