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Discussion Starter #1
Do you know (m)any? Do they drive you nuts? Or are they a necessary force in your life?

I sometimes wonder what opposite types think of each other.

 

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Well, I have yet to meet someone who I know for sure is an ESTP. I do have an ESFP friend though, and while at times she can be a bit overwhelming, she is still very laidback and fun to be around. My dad is an ISTP, which is obviously the introverted version of ESTP, and he and I get along pretty well whenever we talk about lighthearted things and make jokes. I have a crush on someone who I suspect might be ESTP (much to my dismay - nothing against ESTPs, I'm just often discouraged by people's negative comments on INFJ-ESTP relationships).

I am in danger of developing a bit of a negative view on them though, due to the spiteful words/actions of certain ESTPs on this website. There was one thread where they sort of ganged up to attack the INFJ's natural inclination to support internal growth. Plus, there may or may not be one ESTP on this website who I have a bone to pick with... :frustrating:

Over all, I don't see any major reason to dislike ESTPs in general, but that may just be from lack of experience with them. They are rather close to ENTPs, who are (supposedly) one of the soul mates of the INFJ, but it might be that Intuition that makes the whole thing work. So yeah. By the way, I think the Joker is awesome, so there's that. :laughing:
 

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I think i may have a crush on someone who might be a ESTP too.
Not completely sure.
But were really different.....
Most of the time i just get really annoyed at the way he does things (like how he would respond to things) again im not sure if his an estp (but he does seem to fit that description)
But i did read somewhere that INFJ's and ESTP's are opposites...
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I am in danger of developing a bit of a negative view on them though, due to the spiteful words/actions of certain ESTPs on this website. There was one thread where they sort of ganged up to attack the INFJ's natural inclination to support internal growth. Plus, there may or may not be one ESTP on this website who I have a bone to pick with... :frustrating:
Don't worry; it's the internet. Anonymity breeds brass balls.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I agree, thanks for the reassurance. Sometimes I wish that were not the case... People can be so rude on here. Anyways, this is a good thread. Now I'm kind of curious as to you INTJs' opinions of ESFPs. :tongue:
Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that. Don't be afraid to reach out to me or others if you ever need advice with that kind of thing, or for any other matter. And thanks :)

I'm trying to think if I know any ESFPs. I probably have interacted with one or more at some point, but never a "confirmed" one. Looking back, I once had a huge thing for a girl that might have been an ESFP, although I myself tested ISTJ around that time. In retrospect, she was very cute and lively and positive, but her personality was also fairly colorless beneath all that. At least, that's how it seemed to me; she didn't really seem to have opinions on anything outside of pop culture.

Reading about the ESFP type, they definitely seem like alright/good people; however, I'm not so sure they'd have an easy time "getting" me. I can be very blunt in my critiques of things, for instance, but that's not because of any personal acrimoniousness but rather an unfiltered expression of my analysis of things. I can imagine having to sit down and explain myself to an ESFP (and vice versa), whereas I don't really have to do much of that with my NT friends. Obviously not all ESFPs are the same, so take this with a grain of salt. But having an ESFP friend would definitely expose me to new and welcome experiences and ideas - it would probably help me become more spontaneous and outgoing, although perhaps at the cost of lack of deep philosophical discussion.

I might be able to date an ESFP if we took the time to talk about our similarities and differences at the beginning, and made efforts to find common interests and develop new tastes. I would see her extroversion, feeling, and perception as very positive traits in a date. The issue is, however, that an ESFP would probably be less likely to take the time and get to know me. I'm not saying that in any kind of bitter tone; it's probably just the most likely scenario.
 

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I agree with your judgment of ESFPs, it's pretty accurate so don't worry about sounding bitter. They can annoy me at times, as there's one ESFP I know who is just not the sharpest knife in the drawer...at all. Obviously that doesn't go for all ESFPs.

I do feel that the (theoretical) relationship between INTJs and ESFPs would be a very difficult and unlikely one, though I'm sure people could make it work if they were dedicated enough. The funny thing about ESFPs, as I've learned from experience with my one amazing ESFP friend, is that they can be surprisingly perceptive every now and then...Not always, of course; the ESFPs I know tend to disagree with me on things that to me seem obvious or instinctual, but every once in awhile an ESFP will surprise you with some hidden wisdom. I think everyone can admit that they probably have more experience than we do in certain (er, social) areas. :laughing:

Anyways, that was a very interesting read! I find inter-type relationships intriguing as you probably could tell, no matter how impossible some may seem. Thanks for offering your advice, I'll be sure to come to you if I ever feel the need. :tongue: All in all, I think this is an interesting thread; it's a shame there aren't more replies but you never know, maybe it will become popular overnight! Thanks for your kindness. Happy posting! :happy:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I agree with your judgment of ESFPs, it's pretty accurate so don't worry about sounding bitter. They can annoy me at times, as there's one ESFP I know who is just not the sharpest knife in the drawer...at all. Obviously that doesn't go for all ESFPs.

I do feel that the (theoretical) relationship between INTJs and ESFPs would be a very difficult and unlikely one, though I'm sure people could make it work if they were dedicated enough. The funny thing about ESFPs, as I've learned from experience with my one amazing ESFP friend, is that they can be surprisingly perceptive every now and then...Not always, of course; the ESFPs I know tend to disagree with me on things that to me seem obvious or instinctual, but every once in awhile an ESFP will surprise you with some hidden wisdom. I think everyone can admit that they probably have more experience than we do in certain (er, social) areas. :laughing:

Anyways, that was a very interesting read! I find inter-type relationships intriguing as you probably could tell, no matter how impossible some may seem. Thanks for offering your advice, I'll be sure to come to you if I ever feel the need. :tongue: All in all, I think this is an interesting thread; it's a shame there aren't more replies but you never know, maybe it will become popular overnight! Thanks for your kindness. Happy posting! :happy:
Thanks! And I liked reading your analysis on ESTPs. Let us know if things develop between you and your crush. Here's to hoping that he's more intuitive than he comes across. ;)

And yeah, I definitely believe that ESFPs can have that kind of perception. The beautiful thing about people is that they're multi-faceted, which is why I always take MBTI-related claims with a grain of salt.

Thanks for all your comments (and your kindness as well!). I don't know why, but INFJs and I seem to get along really well in general...
Anyway, yeah, it is still a pretty interesting subject to ponder. We'll have to see, huh?
 

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The joker's definitely an ENTP, not ESTP. Not sure what to type Batman. But they're fun to be around. They become annoying when they start to get rambunctious though
 

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ESTPs are sexy. But seriously... they drive me crazy and if I let them get close enough, they will undoubtedly succeed in pissing me off pretty heavily (which is usually really hard to do).
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The joker's definitely an ENTP, not ESTP. Not sure what to type Batman. But they're fun to be around. They become annoying when they start to get rambunctious though
I gave this some thought, and while Nolan's Joker is a lot more intuitive, the overall character in the series is definitely an S. Here's why.

1. He's very, very "spur-of-the-moment." He might speak vaguely of some grand plans, but his ultimate passion is simply causing chaos wherever he sees fit. Even his grand plans only exist insofar as they fuel his own evil brand of "in the moment" thinking. Even in the Nolan universe, he's very pragmatic/realistic, albeit in a twisted sense: "Don't talk like one of them; you're not, even if you'd like to be" and "When the chips are down, these civilized people [will] eat each other" are prime examples. His monologue on why he uses a knife, specifically, also is indicative of a sensing paradigm. It's true that he seems to have a philosophy, but his philosophy is more about the little individual pieces than a greater idea. But yeah, I'd say he definitely possesses some intuitive qualities, like his resourcefulness - I'd put it at 60%/40% S/N.

2. The Joker has an antisocial personality; he's a psychopath. I'm reading a book called Evil Genes and it talks about the brains of psychopaths - basically, the same areas in the brain that allow for empathy also allow for understanding of grand ideas, big dreams, intuition, etc. Psychopaths have extreme deficiency in these areas. While the Joker is a character, this would still steer me to the "S" direction.

Turns out people have already talked about this:
The Joker - MBTI in Fiction
 

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Love my ESTP friend. We have a lot of fun and get in really deep conversations. I thought he was INFJ because we got along so well... Made him take the test. Turns out every one of his letters were the opposite of INFJ. ESTP.

I'm an ENTP, by the way.
 

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Do you know (m)any? Do they drive you nuts? Or are they a necessary force in your life?

I sometimes wonder what opposite types think of each other.


I have one friend that's one. But I have ZERO attraction and feel nothing for him and that type. He's married but not exactly loyal. -But makes great money and his wife stays home...and they're always vacationing and drinking.....

I def have nooooo interest in the unhealthy ones, the passive-aggressive ones, etc.

There's one that seems to get a lot of attention at a certain place....that's an ESTP that was sort of young constantly talk about his attraction for INFJ girls....well one around his age (maybe she was a bit younger....she seemed a bit immature....she flirted and was a bit weird...but probably cuz she doesn't have much dating experience...I don't know)....but he went off on her ruthlessly and was very mean to her. -Then he claimed to be a Christian and asked for prayer for God to make a girl like him!!!! -I was like "wow! A total Nutter!" Plus all he does is use stuff that others say and then post a video about it...he doesn't take the time to read and study things....he's arrogant and a nut.....unhealthy....

so, to answer your question: NO WAY! No attraction....and not interested in being close friends with them. -I think an ESTP would wear me out if I had to deal with one on a daily basis.

I love Intuitive guys.....deep and better conversations....
 

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My brother's an ESTP and just as his function order is opposite to mine, so is he to me in most respects. We are best able to deal with each other in small doses, lol. I think for the most part we get along pretty well, but the divide between how we operate becomes too apparent fairly quickly, and that can cause problems.

We prefer to agree to disagree most of the time. :wink: But we're not enemies or anything like that.
 

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Oh god! My ESFP sister has an ESTP friend and he is hilarious as beep. He loves to look good and he has lotion on him at all times "for the ladies". I swear, I burst out crying because he is so funny.

Does it also count that I watched Jack Nicholson films throughout a year in high school? My English teacher was obsessed with Jack Nicholson... Knows way more than she should.
 

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"I sometimes wonder what opposite types think of each other."

I just wanted to, well not even 'pick up' on this - this is all just noodling.

If you look at the "single letter" MBTi, sure we're opposites. They're hot when we're cold, they're yes when we're no ... sorry, Katy Perry moment. Anyhow, look at the "cognitive function" version of MBTi and there's a sense in which we're very similar. We have the same functions, just laid out in opposite order. INFJ goes Ni, Fe, Ti, with Se at the back. ESTP goes Se, Ti, Fe, with Ni coming at the bottom. I start by "intuiting" from a great sea of creative possibilities in a way which is internally coherent; an ESTP starts by "sensing" the actual read world around them. The last thing an ESTP does, or the thing they naturally do worst, is making reliable 'gut' judgements; the last thing I do, or the thing I naturally do worst, is notice sensory data right in front of my face.

Answer to your question: I find ESTPs "a bit much" after a while, but they're much better than me at cracking on with getting something done and making sure the details actually work. I find them pretty easy to "understand" in terms of how their motivation, thinking process, etc, goes. I understand what people might mean by them seeming a bit shallow, or not having 'depth' at least, but perhaps from me that's just 'jealousy' at having so much energy and enthusiasm for everything all the time!

I see you identify as INTJ. That would go Ni, Te, Fi, then Se, yes? So although we're both IN*Js, and we're both best when we start with Ni and weakest at Se, all that Te and Fi which presumably seems easy and straightforward for you is actually harder for an INFJ like me to understand, at least potentially. I know you didn't ask, but fwiw I have a lot of admiration for INTJ really: imagine having a clear handle on what you are feeling like on the inside *and* having the courage to stand by your convictions all the time instead of always worrying about keeping people around you happy! Just make sure you use your powers for good not evil please.

:)

In "cognitive function" terms, the "opposite" of INFJ is surely ISTJ which goes Si, Te, Fi, Ne - both the opposite order (NFTS vs STFN) and the opposite "i/e" orientation. My surface experience of ISTJs is that they act like logical robots who have been programmed to not even understand that other people have emotions. They really do "feel" like the most "different" sort of human being, at least sometimes. However, I'm pretty sure my dad is ISTJ and that's helped me try and understand that they're not robots at all - just all part of the rich glorious variety of human experience. All that's going on is that his Fe, for instance, is as mysterious and 'lost' to his access consciousness as my Fi. You might find things the same way round.

Sorry to ramble but hope I answered your question okay earlier on at least!
 

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My older brother is an ESTP. Obviously sibling relationships kind of twist typical MBTI encounters, but he is chill, and I get along with him. We often just joke around and talk about common interests, and we never really argue, because we don't touch on those topics.

Unlike my oldest brother, who is an ESTJ; we will argue until the cows come home (or until my feelings get hurt and I hide in my room)... xD
 

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I gave this some thought, and while Nolan's Joker is a lot more intuitive, the overall character in the series is definitely an S. Here's why.

1. He's very, very "spur-of-the-moment." He might speak vaguely of some grand plans, but his ultimate passion is simply causing chaos wherever he sees fit. Even his grand plans only exist insofar as they fuel his own evil brand of "in the moment" thinking. Even in the Nolan universe, he's very pragmatic/realistic, albeit in a twisted sense: "Don't talk like one of them; you're not, even if you'd like to be" and "When the chips are down, these civilized people [will] eat each other" are prime examples. His monologue on why he uses a knife, specifically, also is indicative of a sensing paradigm. It's true that he seems to have a philosophy, but his philosophy is more about the little individual pieces than a greater idea. But yeah, I'd say he definitely possesses some intuitive qualities, like his resourcefulness - I'd put it at 60%/40% S/N.

2. The Joker has an antisocial personality; he's a psychopath. I'm reading a book called Evil Genes and it talks about the brains of psychopaths - basically, the same areas in the brain that allow for empathy also allow for understanding of grand ideas, big dreams, intuition, etc. Psychopaths have extreme deficiency in these areas. While the Joker is a character, this would still steer me to the "S" direction.

Turns out people have already talked about this:
The Joker - MBTI in Fiction

Are you sure that his ideas are spur of the moment? In The Dark Knight movie it seemed like everything he did was well thought out. While Batman solved one problem, Joker had another second simultaneous scheme in the works. He had a hard time getting an upper hand the entire movie because the problems were always two or three fold. Remember, how he tricks Batman into saving Harvey Dent instead of Rachel (these are well thought out plans). However, I don't know how much the movie defers from the actual comic.
I believe Batman is INTJ or a very dark INFJ and Joker is ENTP.

I don't know any actual ESTPs but I know ISTPs. Omg I love them so much. They are similar because of the shared functions but different order. Alot are so cool (love cars, electronics, etc) and can be super hilarious. At first them seem stand offish and like they get annoyed with too much emotion. But I think they see if your a genuine, friendly person they start to think you're cool and open up.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Are you sure that his ideas are spur of the moment? In The Dark Knight movie it seemed like everything he did was well thought out. While Batman solved one problem, Joker had another second simultaneous scheme in the works. He had a hard time getting an upper hand the entire movie because the problems were always two or three fold. Remember, how he tricks Batman into saving Harvey Dent instead of Rachel (these are well thought out plans). However, I don't know how much the movie defers from the actual comic.
I believe Batman is INTJ or a very dark INFJ and Joker is ENTP.
Well, I was referring to the overall character (which is why I used to comic book image rather than Ledger's), but I always saw the Harvey/Rachel swap as being something he did in the moment for fun. The reason for this was that either outcome would have been good for him - a dead Harvey would have been equally bad - if not worse - for the city.

Regardless, simply being able to construct plans does not an "N" make. One could argue that because his plans are so detailed, and because they don't really relate to any greater idea or philosophy (they exist only to satisfy the Joker's sadistic desires - clearly an Se function), he's an ESTP.
 

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Well, I was referring to the overall character (which is why I used to comic book image rather than Ledger's), but I always saw the Harvey/Rachel swap as being something he did in the moment for fun. The reason for this was that either outcome would have been good for him - a dead Harvey would have been equally bad - if not worse - for the city.

Regardless, simply being able to construct plans does not an "N" make. One could argue that because his plans are so detailed, and because they don't really relate to any greater idea or philosophy (they exist only to satisfy the Joker's sadistic desires - clearly an Se function), he's an ESTP.
Yea, however all his randomness usually leads to some over all big picture. In other words, one plan leads to multiple radiating plans (like branches on a tree). Its just when you are trapped in all the details of the chaos he has created, you over look the big picture and that's how he gets the upper hand.

Plus in the film, "Joker states his desire to upset social order through crime, and comes to define himself by his conflict with Batman" and sees himself as an "agent of chaos" (via. wikipedia. lol). I don't know the statement "agent of chaos" seems like he's fighting for an ideal outside of himself.

I think:
Comic book joker- ESTP
Movie joker-ENTP (since its Ledger's own interpretation of the Joker)
 
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