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I think a lot of 4w3 (especially infx 4w3s) shy away from identifying as 4w3s. It may be the issue of shame that prevents them of doing so, and the 'push pull' that arrises from 2 seemingly very different types. The '4w3' is often described as the exxagerated, show off-y type... but I daresay not all 4w3s are as dramatic as this (especially infx's), and infact, the description of the '4w3' may not be their desired image either. They may tell themselves that they don't desire acceptance and maintaining a positive image, but really, this is just their image conceptions getting in the way of self insight.

I have noticed a lot of people on here for example, who have identified as 4w5s or even other types, but they certainly look more like 4w3s to me.

I am no expert however. In fact, I haven't read many sources. I have it on good opinion that internet sources generally don't provide very good information, so it's best to consult a book. There are some good sources in the enneagram section - check the four section, and look for '4 stackings' or '4 variants'.

4w3's are generally described as being more extroverted and 'charming' then their 4w5 counterparts. There's a push/pull that exists across their desire to prevent theirselves from being 'exposed', yet there is a degree to which the 3 wing desires to self expose. They are motivated to be 'different', but they still want to be accepted. They don't seek individuality at the cost of positive feedback. They want both, not either or. Though they may settle with individuality without acceptance, but their shame may be pervasive. They tend to project a favourable image... people may be astounded by how different a 4w3 may 'appear' and how they really are when they let their guard down.

4w3's can be driven, and ambitious (but of course, still very idealistic)... they may not have an accurate perception of their selves if they are caught up in their image and the symbols they define their 'self' by. But they still, often have a good idea of the person they want to be.

They may have a rich fantasy life that entails dreams of success and acceptance. They desire that others find them attractive, or recognise their special talents and abilities.

(I paragraphrased most of this from a book called... actually, I don't know what it's called. A person here photocopied it for me. I'll get back to you when I figure out what it's called).
 

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could this result in a more malleable mbti type? i find that when taking the tests, i have trouble distinguishing between things i AM and things i ADMIRE.

i am very defined by the dichotomy between essence and appearance, i would say.

i find this enneatype very interesting...at first the description didn't seem to fit me, but maybe that's because i desire to appear logical, modest, hardworking, dependable and genuine, so these are the traits i tend to exhibit. hmm...the desire to appear genuine..interesting conundrum.

thanks
 

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I am an INFP, 4w3.

I always thought that I was a Type 2, and I kept testing as one. However, when I read the Type 2 description, I thought that it just wasn't me. The Type 2 likes to take care of people. Me on the other hand - I fantasize about taking care of people but I never actually get around to doing it. I'm not a very reliable person in that respect.

And it also says here that unhealthy Type 4s behave like Type 2s, clingy, over-involved etc and if there's anything I share with Type 2, it's that;

4 - Enneagram Type Four: The Individualist

I've read many Type 4 descriptions, watched videos, etc and had many aha! moments throughout. I mean, I was a guy who took the stage at a school assembly when I was 16 to deliver a sermon about how the world will end because everyone nowadays is a nasty bastard. The speech was intertextually linked with T.S. Eliot's The Waste Land and The King James version of old testament. Then no one spoke to me for a week cos they were afraid I was a time bomb waiting to explode; but I was just so satisfied with myself. In the Malaysian school system, you really have to put up with a lot of shit to express yourself. And at the age of 16, doing something like that, I was going beyond self expression. It was possession. Shamanism; a dark under the stairs being illumined by my autoluminescence. Another time was at a poetry slam, I was in the poetry slam scene for a while back in Malaysia. I was going places, you know. I was in the papers - I was actually interviewed. But I managed to throw it all away because at one gig, I slashed my arm on stage. With a razor. No reason, just wanted to be different. Bled all over the place - and got banned from the venue. And shunned by the scene. Sometimes I find it hard to hold her in, my lady of perpetual emptiness. She cries and cries and cannot be muted.

I just wanted to be different, as if that will fill up some emptiness inside of me. I'd stab my eyes with dye just to see the sky turn rose-blue.

and the reason why I say I'm a 3 wing ---> I sort of feel that I stray between 4w5 and 4w3, and in all honesty I think that's the case. But if I have to be certain, I'd say I'm a 3 for no other (shallower) reason than the fact that 4w3 is described as "The Aristocrat". God, I've always had dreams of being an aristocrat. Seriously. Since way back when, I've been in love with the idea of literally, being an aristocrat. Of being born into a wealthy family in 18th century England, and do nothing but sit on my arse all day reading poetry and composing music. Interspersed with having tea parties in the nude, drinking till' I'm blitzed and fucking around in London brothels. All this while being immaculately dapper.

When I am in a healthy frame of mind, I am organized, disciplined, positive and productive. But when I'm in an unhealthy frame of mind I'm narcissistic by way of sorrow. Completely self-indulgent. Smoking expensive cigarettes, eating rich foods, sleeping long hours, wasting money. Wasting away; precious, effete; would have been sent to the gullotine by citizens during the French revolution.

But look, I am talented, I am a poet, a musician. I can't work in an office, shop or factory. Simply put, Pop Crimes and Work stand are diametrically opposing concepts. And if my art can never bring in an income, I'll just live off my parents like the precious, effete Aristocrat that I am. In fact, I wanted at one point to grow my nails long and paint them pink as a sign that I will never ever work.

Yet, I don't want to be that way because people will look down on me. People will look down on me, and no one will love me. Then my emptiness will be made worse. I will chip my nails and dirty my hands with work just so you will love me.

I hate myself for who I am, but I love myself too because no one can be dissolute like me, and no one can have my perspectives. I'm so confused.

Confused and getting ahead of myself.

P.s. At the age of 13 I started developing a taste for vintage suits. And if I had the money, Lord knows what kind of awful expensive clothing I'll buy. And a taste for expensive guitars and guitar effect pedals.
 

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ugh that is so me!
i am an infp, and i tested as 4w5 but I KNOW that I am 4w3. I dream of being on stage, singing or dancing (something in performance) I pretend like I don't care what I wear (but I totally do). I am very much introverted and don't know how I'm going to achieve my performer dreams...I guess that's the dilemma...People insist that I am a "people person" and I'm "charming", they tell me this all of the time, I just smile and nod and think (I hope they're not lying).
 

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It's interesting. I'm very much a 4w5, but there is a small aspect of me that relates to the 4w3. It is fascinating to read accounts from those people.
 

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o.o guys 4w3 is a pretty common ENFP type :S 7w6 and 4w3 are supposed to be the most common ENFP ennegram types.

I can't make up my mind...I'm an odd mix of INFP and ENFP
 
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I assume it can be seen in the way they dress, 4w5 INFPs tend to probably dress quite boring wile 4w3 are more colorful and a bit weird I guess.
Like, the guy from the Cure I guess he's 4w3.
 

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I assume it can be seen in the way they dress, 4w5 INFPs tend to probably dress quite boring wile 4w3 are more colorful and a bit weird I guess.
Like, the guy from the Cure I guess he's 4w3.

Hi! I really think I am an INFP 4w3 even if I usually score as an 4w5 on tests. It is true that I like to dress well , I love wearing green or red trousers. I think I want to be noticed when I am walking on the street but it also "scares" me to draw too much attention on me. I'd also say I am (a bit) narcisstic. I also am very ambitious I really want to succeed. I wanna be admired! I'd like to be different and not wanting to be successful because I reject what "showbusiness" represents but in the same time I am attracted by it that's why I often wonder what I really want , I find myself between wanting to shine , being in the spotlight and being a normal person with a normal lifestyle.

I'd like to elaborate more but I think I should improve my english first :p
 

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You see for me I did some research into this whole ennegrams shindig and although I didn't think it was going to be as accurate as the myers-briggs, I took the test. It said I scored equally in 9 and 4. I took a few other ennegram tests and they gave me either the same result or told me that I had a slight preference for 9 over 4. I did some digging and read the descriptions of both, and while I identified with both, 9 did fit me better. I then looked for what my wing was. Neither 1 or 8 seemed to fit me. I looked into the possibility of a 9w4, and I found an article about across the circle wings. I think 9w4s and 4w9s are the closest things to the INFP profile.
 

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I'm totally a 4w3 INFP, I absolutely adore being the center of attention - but not in an extroverted way, more in a stardom, adoration, egotistical and materialistic way lol. I'm also super dramatic and theatrical, I don't think I've gone one day without voguing for the past 3 weeks. Also, I LOVE runway and avante-garde fashion, don't even get me started on fashion. Total 4w3!
 

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4s and 3s often are opposites in a lot of ways, so I tend to feel confused about how I really feel. On the one hand I hate attention, on the other I kinda like it (subtly). I'm simultaneously am and not competitive. I'm lazy but highly ambitious. I don't wanna talk about myself to you, but at the same time I want to you to hear about my achievements and admire them. I'm self conscious some days but feel awesome on other days.

I sometimes honestly feel insane from so many of these opposing traits.

So I think it's understandable as to why you can hardly find a concrete description. Cause so much of it contradicts itself.
 

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Reading this and reading more descriptions really made me feel like this was me. I also tested as 4w5 and even though I preferred thinking of myself as this lofty thinker who stays in their room all day, this was NOT me. Though I don't do it all the time, I often dress very dramatically for attention and talk A LOT for more attention as well. I love putting on a show and often come off as very charming and extraverted, especially when I find the people around me are much more introverted. But I feel very different on an internal level, it's almost like the me who is an extravert and the me that's an introvert are too different people. I'm still questioning the fact if I'm an INFP or ENFP because I've felt kind of unhealthily introverted lately, but looking back at most of my life, I'm DEFINITELY a type 4w3.
 
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