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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
My two best friends are an INFP and an ENTJ. I get along with both of them great; the INFP because she is creative and fun, and the ENTJ because she's logical and driven. The problem is that these two seem to get into a fight every time I'm not there to mediate.
Today at lunch for instance they were talking about the new band shirts (the INFP is in Marching band), which say REVOLUTION with a fist holding a music note and some red bursts of sunshine... they started talking about whether or not it looked communist. Typical...
According to my INFP friend, Ms. ENTJ became insistent that red was a communist color and that it should have been changed to a blue or an orange. Apparently, she was overly oppinionated, stoic, and unrelenting on the subject to a point where my INFP couldn't take it any more and tried to whesel her way out of the conversation by going to say hi to a couple friends across the quad. Which seriously offended my ENTJ friend who has a history of making something out of nothing.
According to my ENTJ friend, she was just having a normal conversation about whether or not the band shirt was communist when Ms. INFP insulted her and ran off to go be with another group of friends! Later she said the reason she was so insistant was because INFP wouldn't even consider her side of the argument.
What I want to know is if this is a common theme in ENTJ/INFP relationships. And is there a way I can help?
 

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MOTM Dec 2011
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So the ENTJ was trying to spin her subjective opinion on a color as some sort of empirical fact? Uh huh.... you can tell who I side with :tongue: .

INFPs will run from conflict if they see no point in it. Conflict is any kind of disagreement that can produce negative emotion. Once it's apparent it will not lead anywhere productive, why continue it?

The ENTJ clearly did not view it as conflict, but insisting you are right on a matter that cannot be proven is asking for conflict. It devalues the other person's perspective without any good reason. It amounts to "because I said so" unreasonableness. That can frustrate another personal and so instead of acting on the likely emotion of frustration, the INFP chose to bow out. It seems to me the ENTJ is the one being overly sensitive here....

I have a feeling I'm not telling you anything you don't know, though. I don't have much experience with ENTJs, especially in close relationships like friendships. If I were you, I wouldn't get in the middle of it. It all reeks of teenage angst to me anyway.....
 

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It's hard to explain to Ts what ticks us off about these kinds of arguments.

I myself don't know exactly why, but I can guess, and I'll try to lay it down in short points:

1. INFPs are perceptive to emotions; we don't stop at the mere *words* you're saying; we'll try to understand where you're coming from.

2. If you present your opinion or argument with a tone of "why can't you just accept the facts?", we perceive (correctly, I think) that you have no respect for our opinion.

3. INFPs hate nothing more than someone disrespecting our thoughts and emotions.

We can be quite a tolerant bunch, so we won't get super mad at you if that happens once or twice. But if you consistently behave that way, you'll piss us off, and we'll despise you for it.

Like I said it's not a matter of wording. Some people think they can fool us by wording their argument carefully as to not sound offending, but that attempt is usually futile; it's destined to fail.

Actually, it's even worse: if you word your argument carefully, we find it more offensive, and you'll piss us off even more. We will perceive (again, probably correctly so) that you not only disrespect our opinion, but you think so lowly of us that you can't just have a normal conversation.

I'd only word an argument carefully in two cases: it's against the mainstream and likely to receive a lot of quick bashing, or it's aimed at people who I'd consider crazy.

So, not only you show disrespect, but you also treat us like we don't deserve any respect because we're just that crazy.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
OrangeAppled has a good point. I spoke with Ms. ENTJ today and she said the reason that she kept insisting her argument was because INFP never gave her side of the argument a chance. Apparently that is how INFP felt as well.
It's very clear that these two are having trouble seeing eye to eye.
hasenj also wrote something very insightful. These two have a history of arguments on random topics (most notably the one about modern art:dry:) The ENTJ always takes the initiative to say sorry first, but INFP always tells me that she never seems like she ment it. I thought in was just ENTJ's natural sorry voice, but today ENTJ said that she never was truley sorry for what she said (but she did go on to say she was sorry that it made INFP so upset).
 

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When debating with my ENTJ father or ENTJ friend, I react according to what the topic is.

If it's just a general debate about something non-important, I make sure I approach it from a logical perspective and don't let my Fi interfere. I also usually let them leave the discussion with a sense of success, since I don't care about being right and really ENTJ's just like to debate for the fun of debating sometimes. So I provide them with that.

If it's a debate against something that I value, I steamroll them. period.
 

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INFPS hate conflict. I don't know how to emphasise this. It's perfectly normal that your friend "escaped" to talk to other people. It's INFP survival tactics. The INFP can easily get a lot of negativity from a conversation like that, feel bad all day by the "attack" as I have no doubt is how she was perceiving the conversation.

ENTJs think they are just having a "debate".
 

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I get along great with INFPs. They're so easy going, I could never imagine fighting with one over something so silly.

Ms. ENTJ shouldn't have insisted but Ms. INFP shouldn't have ran off. How rude of both of them.
 

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NTs (or at least ENTs, in my experience) tend to see conflict/debates as something to be won. INFPs tend to see them as something to be avoided. Naturally, this causes even more conflict! I would have reacted the same way as your INFP, mostly because the argument would have been pointless and Ms. ENTJ wouldn't have let it go. When (some? most?) INFPs are done, they're done. If I hit the "done" stage during an argument, I'll either walk away or get passive-aggressive, especially if I feel I'm right without any real evidence to the contrary from the other party. It sounds like that's what happened between your friends.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Hmmm...assbiscuits- you have a wierd name, but I agree, they are both at fault.

Paradigm- You are positivly correct.

I've deduced that the problem is stress related...they always fight at the begining of the school year when clubs and band practice start up, which is our second most stressful time of the year (right after exam week...month). This makes perfect sense to me- ENTJ is arguing off steam/ INFP is already a little frustrated and annoyed before the conversation begins.

Thank you all for your insight!:happy:

I have a question for my INFP commentors:
As of today, i convinced ENTJ to call and talk to INFP about the conflict. INFP said there wasn't one (even though it was obvious the day before). Is she just trying to end conflict or is she still upset?
ENTJ thinks she just forgives and forgets quickly, but I think she is just trying to put it behind her...(which wont solve anything in the long run. These arguments are becoming increasingly frequent)
Am I right to think she's still peaved? Or do INFP find it easy to forgive and forget?
 

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Hmmm...assbiscuits- you have a wierd name, but I agree, they are both at fault.
Off subject, but this made me laugh: I love it.

And I agree...Assbiscuits is a weird name, and they are both at fault.
 

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I just realized my twin brother's probably an ENTJ or something similar. He needs to talk (and talk and talk and talk) to someone (usually me) about his thoughts in order to organize them, he creates judgements about things very quickly and without hesitation, and tries to organize everything (I don't think he's ever really cried during a movie, but loves to describe why a certain scene effectively utilized a melancholic atmosphere, etc...).

Thankfully, we both get along great 90% of the time because we're both good at balancing our F/Ts when talking about things, but we do sometimes get in rows over stupid things when he crosses my introversion or feeling lines too far. It's the principle behind how he's arguing, not what he's arguing about, is what I care about. Invading my personal space, rushing me, being very bossy and demanding, and openly deriding my feelings about something I care about are all big No's. But that's usually just when I'm already in a bad mood. And I'm definitely one to ignore conflict, and then pretend it never happened the next day so as to avoid more conflict.
 

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I have a question for my INFP commentors:
As of today, i convinced ENTJ to call and talk to INFP about the conflict. INFP said there wasn't one (even though it was obvious the day before). Is she just trying to end conflict or is she still upset?
ENTJ thinks she just forgives and forgets quickly, but I think she is just trying to put it behind her...(which wont solve anything in the long run. These arguments are becoming increasingly frequent)
Am I right to think she's still peaved? Or do INFP find it easy to forgive and forget?
It's funny... I got in (another) argument with my ENTP friend tonight over IM. Long story short, he eventually said he was going to bed, so I told him to "sleep well." His response was, "...Really? 'Cause now doesn't seem like the time for pleasantries." I told him that it wasn't a pleasantry, that I was entirely sincere (and yes, I was). :tongue:

Some INFPs will be the type to hold grudges and some won't be. Me, I can't hold a grudge for anything. You're probably right about your friend: she likely just wants to put it behind her. Maybe she's ignoring the bad stuff in favor of the good? If Ms. ENTJ has a history of not being sincere about her apologies, then I can understand why Ms. INFP doesn't want to listen. It's incredibly frustrating to be told one thing and know it's not true. And maybe she's afraid that it'll just start another argument if they're speaking to each other alone.
 

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I also posted this on an ENTJ forum and them seem pretty certain she is an ESTJ not and ENTJ. Would any of you agree?
Well, one can't tell from a short story. And they're rather stressed, which may skew things. But starting a debate/argument over a "color of communism" does seem more like an ESTJ issue...

How is it going between them? Have they talked yet?
 

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As of today, i convinced ENTJ to call and talk to INFP about the conflict. INFP said there wasn't one (even though it was obvious the day before). Is she just trying to end conflict or is she still upset?
ENTJ thinks she just forgives and forgets quickly, but I think she is just trying to put it behind her...(which wont solve anything in the long run. These arguments are becoming increasingly frequent)
Am I right to think she's still peaved? Or do INFP find it easy to forgive and forget?
If she says she is not upset about it, then she isn't. I know that I do not hold grudges over stupid, petty spats with people. She probably just wants to move on and not make a big deal out of nothing.

With a view to the long term, there can be a matter of "the straw that broke the camel's back" when it comes to these spats. A lingering resentment of seeing your feelings as invalidated/disrespected can build and then one day, one of these little spats could turn into a real conflict. However, it seems to me the INFP did not feel disrespected so much as annoyed that the ENTJ was being argumentative. That's something I can brush off easily, especially if I've accepted it as a "quirk" in someone - maybe this INFP is similar. If the ENTJ ever does cross the line, the INFP will handle it in her way. We're usually only passive so long as no violation of a value has occurred - basically, no attempt to address an issue can mean we don't care very much :tongue: .
 
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