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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm an INFP female dating a ESTJ male for 2 years now. He is everything an ESTJ should be, but better; he is flexible and always puts my needs first. I would honestly consider him the perfect man in every aspect and am deeply in love. Recently, in the past couple months, we have gotten into two huge fights where he has stated I NEED to change or he doesn't think he can be with me anymore. The only thing keeping us together is the fact that we are both so in love, despite our differences. He is right, I feel like I am the only one with problems. I am needy, selfish, sensitive, jealous, and stubborn by nature. I WANT to change those things about me but it will take time. He feels like I am taking advantage of him (considering he is very "whipped"). It also hurts him that I need my alone time or need space sometimes. I really want things to work out between us. We always bounce back from fights and completely make up the next day, if that helps.
I just need advice. Advice for me to learn to accommodate with the ESTJ and just advice in dealing with my INFP in general.
Thanks!
 
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Explain a bit more what he feels you need to change on. I know you listed a few things, but examples might help a bit more :D.

There are things you may need to -compromise- on, but change is a very strong word.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
He thinks I need to change the fact that I get jealous, considering he has a lot of girl friends that happen to be attractive. He comes off as flirtatious but he often is just being generally friendly and I can never tell the difference. I never admit I am wrong and am good at winning any argument, which is exhausting for him. He thinks I'm a "baby" when I don't get my way (often true), and demand a lot from him. It seems like it should be so easy to change things about me but it's hard. If I suppress how I am feeling I am going to go insane.
 

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He thinks I need to change the fact that I get jealous, considering he has a lot of girl friends that happen to be attractive. He comes off as flirtatious but he often is just being generally friendly and I can never tell the difference. I never admit I am wrong and am good at winning any argument, which is exhausting for him. He thinks I'm a "baby" when I don't get my way (often true), and demand a lot from him. It seems like it should be so easy to change things about me but it's hard. If I suppress how I am feeling I am going to go insane.
Sounds like you both could use more love, tolerance, acceptance for each other as you are, not just as you would like each other to be/act. At the same time, you both need to try to do things which are a bit outside your security zone as a way of caring for the other and demonstrating to them that you are trying for them.
 
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He thinks I need to change the fact that I get jealous, considering he has a lot of girl friends that happen to be attractive. He comes off as flirtatious but he often is just being generally friendly and I can never tell the difference. I never admit I am wrong and am good at winning any argument, which is exhausting for him. He thinks I'm a "baby" when I don't get my way (often true), and demand a lot from him. It seems like it should be so easy to change things about me but it's hard. If I suppress how I am feeling I am going to go insane.
Underlined -- this could be insecurity issues you have, possibly exacerbated by you feeling that you're not good enough for him (?). It could also suggest that he hasn't properly shown you that he only has eyes for you (his fault). Regardless, jealousy is ridiculously common. If it brings you to tears, makes you play 20 questions, or you constantly fear he'll cheat on you, then that's probably too much into the extreme.

I'm still not completely sure where you stand, yet.

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Bolded -- that's normal for all women, haha. As long as you don't nit pick and are capable of "letting it go".

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Green -- A girl with a bit of a Princess complex? That's fairly common as well. Once again, I'm not completely sure of the extreme so it's hard to advise.
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Anyways, if he ever asks you to change and never talks about things he needs to work on then that should send up a few red flags. If he acknowledges a few faults then it's just a matter of communicating with one another how things can be worked on.

random example: If he says you're jealous too often, then retort "you don't treat me the same way when your female friends are around" or whatever it is you feel.

Basically, play a game of cause and effect. This is what happens, this is how it makes me feel.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for your advice. We both know that I have insecurity issues, they've been pointed out many times, but neither of us can conclude as to why. I am an attractive and successful individual, I think it's just the perfectionist in me thinking I am never good enough and I'm afraid that state of mind will never change throughout my life.
 

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Thanks for your advice. We both know that I have insecurity issues, they've been pointed out many times, but neither of us can conclude as to why. I am an attractive and successful individual, I think it's just the perfectionist in me thinking I am never good enough and I'm afraid that state of mind will never change throughout my life.
Hrmm, I still think insecurity issues are incredibly common and that it's rarely something people can deal with on their own. In that sense, I'll go out on a limb and say that he may need to pick it up a notch on showing you some TLC / romance / and just generally a much deeper emotional connection. Does he do those kinds of things for you? What about little retreats together? Does he take you to dress-up dinners? Compliment you a lot?

As for perfectionism in general, it's common for INFPs. Then again, as long as you're not a perfectionist to the point of almost hating yourself, then I think it's fine.
 
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I get jealous too, but it only happens when I actually care about the guy I'm dating.

I've gotten jealous in my current relationship, especially when he goes out dancing. I hate dancing and he tries to teach me once in awhile. I've learned about certain dancing communities and know it's very harmless.

This is how my boyfriend approaches the jealousy thing:

-He doesn't make it worse by getting mad that I get jealous
-He asks me for specifics: what aspect of him going out dancing makes me feel jealous? what are my fears? what past experiences have I had that might have caused this jealousy?
-Then he addresses the above. He remind me of things like-- out of his 5 years of continuous dancing, he's never met a girl (from dancing) that he's wanted to date. In fact, he's only met 3 girls he's ever wanted to date in the last 10 years, and one of them is me. (He also ended up dating the 1st two girls, also not from dancing.)
-He explains that dancing is a temporary cure for his insane shyness (yes, he is VERY shy)
-He also explains that there are certain social protocols to dancing, which I myself have witnessed and experienced. Everyone is very respectful and men hold women in a very formal way.
-He also asks for solutions -- things that would put me at ease while still making it possible for him to dance. This includes calling me right before and after he goes out dancing. And inviting me out to dance everytime the chance comes up, even if it's likely I'll decline.

I must say though, this is all made possible because my boyfriend's #1 quality is his patience.

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On another point, like you, I am fairly attractive and successful, and I'm not so sure I would call this jealousy 'insecurity issues'. I've dated guys like the one you describe without feeling an ounce of jealousy. I've dated not-so-good-looking or outgoing guys who did make me feel jealous. I think this has more to do with a type of attention we want. Very idealistic. Think Braveheart. As in: the ONLY woman that exists to him is ME.

In general, it also helps that my boyfriend has very few (if any) female friends. I think with your boyfriend, you're going to have to put in a lot more work than I do.

You can always break it off and find someone who doesn't require as much social interaction or attention. But I doubt you want to do that, and I don't recommend it since it sounds like you really want to stick with this guy.

One thing you can do is simply remind yourself daily that all his interactions with other women are superficial and meaningless. GIve the I-don't-care attitude.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yes, my problem clearly is the fact that I think I should be the only woman in his life. I always feel like I'm competing against his best friend and his mom. I've gotten to the point where I have caused him to cut people out of his life, which I believe he has started to resent me for.

All I need to do is keep in mind that I am the ONLY girl he has ever loved and he has been in a total of 3 relationships in his life. I think it bugs me that, unlike your boyfriend, he isn't shy and isn't afraid to talk to a girl. He is very attractive and I see girls eying him wherever we go, which leads me to wonder what happens when I'm not around.

I guess my take on your guy's dancing is metaphorically this is like my boyfriend and hanging out with his female friends, but he has had "crushes" on a few of them (before we were dating) which also makes my mind wander. It would make me feel more secure if he has never felt feelings toward any of them. It's just exhausting for me, such an emotional person, to come to peace with this.

I don't think he would ever cheat on me, he calls me every single night before bed and texts me throughout the day when we're not together. He gives me the attention I need, I just feel like the attention he needs clashes with what I want from him.
 

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Yes, my problem clearly is the fact that I think I should be the only woman in his life. I always feel like I'm competing against his best friend and his mom. I've gotten to the point where I have caused him to cut people out of his life, which I believe he has started to resent me for.

All I need to do is keep in mind that I am the ONLY girl he has ever loved and he has been in a total of 3 relationships in his life. I think it bugs me that, unlike your boyfriend, he isn't shy and isn't afraid to talk to a girl. He is very attractive and I see girls eying him wherever we go, which leads me to wonder what happens when I'm not around.

I guess my take on your guy's dancing is metaphorically this is like my boyfriend and hanging out with his female friends, but he has had "crushes" on a few of them (before we were dating) which also makes my mind wander. It would make me feel more secure if he has never felt feelings toward any of them. It's just exhausting for me, such an emotional person, to come to peace with this.

I don't think he would ever cheat on me, he calls me every single night before bed and texts me throughout the day when we're not together. He gives me the attention I need, I just feel like the attention he needs clashes with what I want from him.

I would go back to rowingineden's comment about both of you taking the other as you are.

The other thing I would do if I were you is to taking a good look inward and ask what you're willing to endure.

I used to exclusively date guys who approached me, were assertive, were popular, outgoing, etc. But it always ended badly for me because of this thing I couldn't shake -- not being the only one (emotionally, intellectually, physically/intimately AND physically/superficially). After 10 years of this, I had a very painful breakdown that required anxiety medication. At that point, I knew I would take this no more.

Keep in mind, it's not always that easy being with another introvert either. Just because I have the jealousy aspect taken care of with my guy, doesn't mean we didn't have to deal with other painful things. It's just that I'd rather experience these other non-jealousy related painful things.

Again, what are you willing to endure, put up with, laugh about?
 

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Consider some stats....

http://www.personalitydesk.com/story/compatibility-and-your-myers-briggs-personality-type said:
• Intuitive, Feeling, Perceiving types (INFP and ENFP) had a satisfaction rate of only 42% when they were paired with Sensing, Thinking, Judging types (ESTJ and ISTJ), although this was one of the more common pairings among the couples studied. The NFP partner is likely to feel that their partner is conservative and stifling, while the STJ partner may find their partner unpredictable and unreliable.

• There are two combinations where opposites seem to attract: ESTJ men with INFP women, and ESTP men with INFJ women. However, this may be due in part to the fact that these two types of men are also the most likely to be married multiple times.
Just sayin'..... :crazy:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I would go back to rowingineden's comment about both of you taking the other as you are.

The other thing I would do if I were you is to taking a good look inward and ask what you're willing to endure.

I used to exclusively date guys who approached me, were assertive, were popular, outgoing, etc. But it always ended badly for me because of this thing I couldn't shake -- not being the only one (emotionally, intellectually, physically/intimately AND physically/superficially). After 10 years of this, I had a very painful breakdown that required anxiety medication. At that point, I knew I would take this no more.

Keep in mind, it's not always that easy being with another introvert either. Just because I have the jealousy aspect taken care of with my guy, doesn't mean we didn't have to deal with other painful things. It's just that I'd rather experience these other non-jealousy related painful things.

Again, what are you willing to endure, put up with, laugh about?
I am willing to endure just about anything besides being put on the back burner. I'm just paranoid about all the statistics and past experiences of INTP and ESTJ's not working out.
 

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I am willing to endure just about anything besides being put on the back burner. I'm just paranoid about all the statistics and past experiences of INTP and ESTJ's not working out.
There's always a risk in a relationship, you go into it knowing you could well get hurt, but you just have to at some point decide that either it's worth it or it's not, and let go, just be, and try to relax about it and trust the one you are with.
 
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Like with wet rounded bar soap, the tighter you squeeze, the more it slips away. If you cage in certain animals, their instinct is to go berserk and escape any way they can. If you relax and let up, there is no guarantee somebody will choose to stick around. The point is, it's beyond your control, and you need to accept that. Would you want him to only pay attention to you, not cheat on you, and not break up only because you forced him into it (if you even could)? Is that love?

“If you love something let it go. If it comes back to you it's yours. If it doesn't, it never was.”

Are you sure you're in this for love, rather than to not be alone?
 

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It looks like you're trying to convince yourself that he's right about your flaws.

It looks to me like he has a major flaw: he can't accept you as you are.

He thinks you have to change.

But, does he think the same about himself? does he see his flaws? does he think that he too has to change? or is he the perfect man and you're the one full of flaws?

An ESTJ might view dreaming and emotions as a flaw, would you be willing to put up with that?
 

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It looks like you're trying to convince yourself that he's right about your flaws.

It looks to me like he has a major flaw: he can't accept you as you are.

He thinks you have to change.

But, does he think the same about himself? does he see his flaws? does he think that he too has to change? or is he the perfect man and you're the one full of flaws?

An ESTJ might view dreaming and emotions as a flaw, would you be willing to put up with that?
I agree with this...

I'd be very worried if someone said, you have to change or we have no future. Most people can try harder, but change..change who you are is very hard. Can he change to the point that he can stop being so social and flirty so you can be less jealous? I don't think so either.

From personal experience STJ is a really difficult combination. I think the reason, logic, structure, security etc can feel very comforting to us at first, from what I've seen, it leads to isolation and damaged self worth feelings for the infp.

Good luck, I really hope you find a way :)
 

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I posted before I saw certain other things you've posted. I think the above may be right.

I can imagine an ESTJ being very critical of an INFP...
 

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I have some questions. Are you happy? With him? Other than the love? If you are unhappy with yourself and want to change for him, are you sure you're not just unhappy with the relationship itself and believe that if you change yourself, it'll get better? You are you. Yes, there is always something everyone can do to improve him- or herself, but are these things you want to "fix" a deeper part of who you are as a person? And would you want to change these things if it wasn't for him? I've felt the same way as you. I felt like I had so many problems that caused problems in my relationship. I tried to change, but they were deeply seeded personality traits that I couldn't change by will. I think change should happen on it's own, if it's to happen at all when it comes to strong personality traits. Otherwise you wrongly believe you're no good. You gotta embrace who you are, and so should the person you're with (at the least for the most part). If you don't have one or both of those, it's not easy to be happy. And it seems you're unhappy about your relationship. So before you make yourself miserable inflicting change upon yourself ask yourself why these negative traits are coming out in you. Is it a reaction to things in him you're unhappy with? If so is it really you who should be changing or both of you not accepting one another?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I have some questions. Are you happy? With him? Other than the love? If you are unhappy with yourself and want to change for him, are you sure you're not just unhappy with the relationship itself and believe that if you change yourself, it'll get better? You are you. Yes, there is always something everyone can do to improve him- or herself, but are these things you want to "fix" a deeper part of who you are as a person? And would you want to change these things if it wasn't for him? I've felt the same way as you. I felt like I had so many problems that caused problems in my relationship. I tried to change, but they were deeply seeded personality traits that I couldn't change by will. I think change should happen on it's own, if it's to happen at all when it comes to strong personality traits. Otherwise you wrongly believe you're no good. You gotta embrace who you are, and so should the person you're with (at the least for the most part). If you don't have one or both of those, it's not easy to be happy. And it seems you're unhappy about your relationship. So before you make yourself miserable inflicting change upon yourself ask yourself why these negative traits are coming out in you. Is it a reaction to things in him you're unhappy with? If so is it really you who should be changing or both of you not accepting one another?
It's hard to say, I keep my feelings in my unconscious and tell myself what I want to hear most of the time. I agree that no one should have to change for anyone but I understand where he's coming from. I don't want to change my personality, I just want to learn to use discretion so my strong characteristics aren't so clashing with everyone. I don't get along with most of his friends because I see them as selfish, in a different way that I am selfish. I am selfish in the way that I like to be by myself and I will be honest about my feelings in order to "release" myself I guess you could call it. His friends are all E's, one in particular, will leave him alone at a bar with no ride, steal something from someone and make my boyfriend take the blame, etc etc. I can't handle it and get in verbal fights with him all the time.

My boyfriend is clearly taken advantage of by him, but doesn't care at all. Infact, he gets mad at me for being confrontational to his friend about everything! Am I going crazy, what gives??
 
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