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Discussion Starter #1
Because a single question on each other's forum simply doesn't do it.

Understanding one another might seem a mission impossible, but let's give it a shot anyway! All INFP's and ENTJ's are welcome to post here and join the talks.
@Rydark , I'll throw here your last comment posted in the relationship-questions' thread:

But I would like to introduce a concept to you that is embedded in my psyche - Ideas don't determine who is right. Power determines who is right. Something to think about, darling hehe.
I don't really see what you mean. If you are talking about how politics or business often work in practice, I might understand you, but then the word "right" seems misplaced. I would associate this in the first place with morality, but what's the link with power? Power as it is usually understood doesn't really appeal to me either. So, can you elaborate?
 

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Because a single question on each other's forum simply doesn't do it.

Understanding one another might seem a mission impossible, but let's give it a shot anyway! All INFP's and ENTJ's are welcome to post here and join the talks.

@Rydark , I'll throw here your last comment posted in the relationship-questions' thread:



I don't really see what you mean. If you are talking about how politics or business often work in practice, I might understand you, but then the word "right" seems misplaced. I would associate this in the first place with morality, but what's the link with power? Power as it is usually understood doesn't really appeal to me either. So, can you elaborate?
Woman, you just painted a target on the back of my head for all the INFPs haha!

A man will come to ruin if he tries to be good all the time by those who are not good. - Niccolo Machiavelli
Well it's quite simple, really. You might have great ideas(morally just, helpful, etc), but they don't mean anything if you don't have the power (power being political, in regards to money, time, your intelligence, willpower, etc) to implement them for yourself or for others, and it doesn't make you any better (until you implement them).

I have seen many who have gone to ruin trying to do the "good" or "right" thing all the time and who tried to think their way out of them instead of taking actions. They died blaming the world for their misfortunes. Might be a little extreme, but something to think about, nonetheless.

This is more of an anecdote - a nudge like you nudged me in our conversations on the other thread lol.
 

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Because a single question on each other's forum simply doesn't do it.

Understanding one another might seem a mission impossible, but let's give it a shot anyway! All INFP's and ENTJ's are welcome to post here and join the talks.

@Rydark , I'll throw here your last comment posted in the relationship-questions' thread:



I don't really see what you mean. If you are talking about how politics or business often work in practice, I might understand you, but then the word "right" seems misplaced. I would associate this in the first place with morality, but what's the link with power? Power as it is usually understood doesn't really appeal to me either. So, can you elaborate?
You two are so adorable. :tongue:

Oh, shoot I don't belong here... whoops
 

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INFPs are

  • Reserved
    Individualistic
    Respecting of the need for space
    Full of strong principles
    Fun to be around
    Explosive emotional volcanoes
    Kind to others
    Focused sometimes on how things are said rather than what was said
    Thoughtful
    Polite
    Interested
    Terrifying
    Human time bombs
    Extremely sensitive
    Often thinking the same thing I am- I just say it out loud
    Imaginative
    Empathetic
    Cheerful
I get along with them best... well, at arm's length, if I'm being honest. I'm very scared of hurting them and I don't want to say something they'll misinterpret. Often they don't realize something I've said has offended them until afterward, but they don't communicate how they feel very well. If I can trust them to communicate their feelings and not be too offended, I really like being around them and they make great friends. I've only met one male INFP, and I did like him as a person, but I can't imagine dating someone like him. I can keep up with Fi for awhile, but it ends up exhausting me- I'm afraid my Te would do the same to him.

When I tell an INFP that something is flowery bullshit, they'll say something like "but facts are just facts" or "but facts are stupid, have more imagination". Ti or even Fe can usually agree with me for efficiency's sake, but INFP's have a whimsical romanticism that I just don't have. They are very loyal, which is something I appreciate, but I always feel like I'm stepping all over their emotions and they're hiding something from me.
 

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ENTJs scare me. :unsure:

I tend to stray away.
Hullo :kitteh:

I'm scared of INFPs too, but probably for different reasons. Why are you scared of us? (If you don't want to answer, that's okay too.)
 

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I've always admired ENTJs, but I feel I'm too emotional for them.
I feel like ENTJs won't like my Fi or Ne and just find me annoying for the most part. :/
In a romantic sense, I am attracted to the sort of assertiveness, intelligence, and I-know-what-I-want attitude they have, but I'd be concerned that the feelings wouldn't be returned considering that I'm just an overly-imaginative lunatic. Aha.
 

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I've never met an ENTJ before, or at least if I have I don't know it.
My INFP grandmother (a psychologist) told me to be wary of ENTJs because they can be mean and be bullies and boss me around but... I don't completely believe her. I'm certain that you guys can be wonderful people! :tongue: Everyone has at least a little good in them, right?
I bet an ENTJ and an INFP could get along happily, it must be possible.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Woman, you just painted a target on the back of my head for all the INFPs haha!

A man will come to ruin if he tries to be good all the time by those who are not good. - Niccolo Machiavelli
Machiavelli. Seriously? You just painted that target on your head yourself! ;)

Well it's quite simple, really. You might have great ideas(morally just, helpful, etc), but they don't mean anything if you don't have the power (power being political, in regards to money, time, your intelligence, willpower, etc) to implement them for yourself or for others, and it doesn't make you any better (until you implement them).

I have seen many who have gone to ruin trying to do the "good" or "right" thing all the time and who tried to think their way out of them instead of taking actions. They died blaming the world for their misfortunes. Might be a little extreme, but something to think about, nonetheless.
Interesting ideas. There doesn't have to be a opposition between good ideas and the use of power. I think power can be achieved and used in good and in bad ways. I think of the power of parents over their children. Sometimes it goes wrong, but in general parents want the best for their kids. The same could count for political power, only here the power often becomes a goal on itself and that I find morally wrong. But, you're right that just dreaming about a better world isn't enough. It's not bad to push INFP's to think about this, because it isn't a natural strength of ours to plan or see to implement our ideas.

Related to this topic, something I've been lately wondering about is the use of war and violence. I've always been a pacifist, but now I think that that's maybe the easy way out. Easy talking for someone who is living in a country where there is no war or oppression. I think some things might be worth fighting for. I'm just not sure yet how to fit this in with my beliefs. So it's something I'm trying to figure out.

Oh, shoot I don't belong here... whoops
Don't worry, you're not on the ENTJ-forum here. :tongue:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
ENTJs scare me. :unsure:

I tend to stray away.
Don't be scared! If they bite, just bite back!

I've never met an ENTJ before, or at least if I have I don't know it.
My INFP grandmother (a psychologist) told me to be wary of ENTJs because they can be mean and be bullies and boss me around but... I don't completely believe her. I'm certain that you guys can be wonderful people! :tongue: Everyone has at least a little good in them, right?
I bet an ENTJ and an INFP could get along happily, it must be possible.
Even Darth Vader had still some good in him, so surely some ENTJ's will as well! ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
INFPs are

  • Reserved
    Individualistic
    Respecting of the need for space
    Full of strong principles
    Fun to be around
    Explosive emotional volcanoes
    Kind to others
    Focused sometimes on how things are said rather than what was said
    Thoughtful
    Polite
    Interested
    Terrifying
    Human time bombs
    Extremely sensitive
    Often thinking the same thing I am- I just say it out loud
    Imaginative
    Empathetic
    Cheerful
I get along with them best... well, at arm's length, if I'm being honest. I'm very scared of hurting them and I don't want to say something they'll misinterpret. Often they don't realize something I've said has offended them until afterward, but they don't communicate how they feel very well. If I can trust them to communicate their feelings and not be too offended, I really like being around them and they make great friends. I've only met one male INFP, and I did like him as a person, but I can't imagine dating someone like him. I can keep up with Fi for awhile, but it ends up exhausting me- I'm afraid my Te would do the same to him.

When I tell an INFP that something is flowery bullshit, they'll say something like "but facts are just facts" or "but facts are stupid, have more imagination". Ti or even Fe can usually agree with me for efficiency's sake, but INFP's have a whimsical romanticism that I just don't have. They are very loyal, which is something I appreciate, but I always feel like I'm stepping all over their emotions and they're hiding something from me.
Except for terrifying, which I guess is how you see INFP's, I find the list is quite accurate for me, although you did leave out the our more negative characteristics. But I'm sure most INFP's are well aware of them.

I think the relationship ENTJ and INFP becomes better if they know each other well and there's trust. If I know they mean well, I like being with NT's because I feel I don't have to worry about hurting someone's feelings. I can say what I think and we can discuss it freely. It's a matter of getting used to it. Of course you can't avoid those moments where we'll just be shocked about something you said and look at you as if you just killed a puppy.

I have an ENTJ sister and find that I have the best connection with her compared to my other siblings. We really understand each other on most topics and usually think the same. There are the typical clashes: She has hurt me with things she said, but that has become rarer because I now understand better how she operates and don't take it too personal. I think that's an important step for INFP's to take: don't take anything an ENTJ says as personal. I know I've hurted her as well, because when cornered I'll say something rather sharp or even mean and this hits even harder because I'm usually not that way. We sometimes clash over our different preferences towards debate. If a situation is too charged, I want to let things rest, be on my own, think it over. She'll come to me and talk and talk aaaaahhh! But I understand that she needs that. And where she provokes a discussion, I'll avoid it by all means. As we get older we jokingly make caricatures of each other: she'll say I want to please everyone and don't take a stand, I'll say she's an ambitious bitch.
 

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@Rivulet
Machiavelli. Seriously? You just painted that target on your head yourself!
What? You don't like Machiavelli lol?

There doesn't have to be a opposition between good ideas and the use of power.
There can be if you are too idealistic and when you refuse to see the world as it is.

Related to this topic, something I've been lately wondering about is the use of war and violence.
Warfare is one of my favorite topics, so thank you!
"Warfare is the greatest affair of the state. It is the tao between life or death." - Sun Tzu from The Art of War. War (and violence in general) is absolutely necessary, but should be avoided when possible. Winning without bloodshed is the greatest victory.
On the subject of being a pacifist, it is the same thing as being a coward. There is no progress without sacrifice, so conflict is an absolute must.
"The world suffers a lot. Not because of the violence of bad people, but because of the silence of good people." "Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily." - both by Napoleon Bonaparte (my hero).
We can have a good debate on warfare if you like, hehe. Just fire away (no pun intended).

I'm just not sure yet how to fit this in with my beliefs
Correct me if I am wrong, but this statement makes me think that you look at the world as you see fit - an ideal world. You have a belief system. That's great. Now, I would encourage you to look at the world as it is with all its glory and imperfections, and bend it to your will. Give it form based on your beliefs, instead of adding to or morphing your beliefs based on an external idea or situation - a very passive way of living.
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@shoot4thestars
You two are so adorable.
Not sure what you mean by that...

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@endlessdaydream
I would give you a hug, but you will get sick as Rivulet said that I am too cold!
 

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Sorry for what? You weren't interjecting. I was just confused and still am, but I think I simply don't have the knowledge to understand it.
?? Now I'm confused. I'm sorry for any misunderstanding.. I just appreciate the few posts I've seen.. good debates
I can't provide rationality at this time for the adorableness. I think it's just my feelings splattering all over the place.
 
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