Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 131 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,999 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Okay, from the http://personalitycafe.com/intj-forum-scientists/24815-intj-meets-infp.html thread, I have noticed that... INTJs and INFPs are not really as different as we seem on the surface. Actually, we seem like "inside out" versions of each other. We both seem to be outsiders with rich inner worlds, usually victims of (childhood) abuse.

The INTJ projects an image of being hard, insensitive, cold, emotionless, "evil", cynical, critical, etc. This is the INTJ's defense against the rest of the world, but it also seems to color their perceptions of themselves as well. However, the INTJs I've observed tend to be, at their core, very optimistic, romantic, and idealistic, tend to believe that, in spite of their experiences, people are basically good, love can work, and other things like that.

The INFP projects an image of being naive, sensitive, idealistic, optimistic, compassionate and passionate, etc. We kind of are those things, to an extent. However, at our very core, a lot of us are very doubtful and even pessimistic, cynical about things like human nature. We just try desperately not to let that win out.

Both the INTJ and INFP are interested in understanding other people's internal worlds. It seems like it should be easier for these types to get along in a relationship. I know as friends I never seem to have problems. Are "INTJ" and "INFP" really mutually unintelligible, two separate languages, or are they actually just different dialects?
 

·
Subterranean Homesick Alien
Joined
·
11,928 Posts
I've always looked at ENFPs and INTJs as inside-outs of each other. That's what the attraction is. Maybe it's the same for INFPs and INTJs, I dunno...For that sake, I'm gonna refer to the similarities and correlations between ENFPs and INTJs with 'xNFP' instead.
Both xNFPs and INTJs seem to have a generally cynical outward view, they just manifest it differently. I've been surprised when some INTJs would come onto our board and agree with some of the things we say, yet outwardly, we're almost opposites.
INTJs have a fluffy core no matter how much many of them will deny it lol. xNFPs have a controlled core. Both need to be let out. ENFPs, or I guess xNFPs, seem to let some INTJs feel like they can show the part of them that they hold inside. INTJs help 'xNFPs' have some kind of strong ground and structure beyond their outwardly unstructured person.

There are many other things I've noticed, I just don't have the patience to go into this with any depth lmao
INTJs are awesome, though...just wanted to say hehe
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,401 Posts
I'm not scared to admit that I have a very sensitive side, but I will not and do not display that openly to just anyone, but it's there, same goes with most of my thought processes. You need to have curiosity of the probing type, in order to get to that. Some INTJ's prefer "E" with their NF to help bring their "I" out, I can agree to an extent, I do need someone to bring me out, or I'll just role solo, but after awhile, if that "E" can't understand the need for space, which is a very important and a needed thing, then that "E" will have to go. I prefer an "I" when it comes to "NF's" in general, it just fits better, I won't be constantly badgered or misunderstood, however the only downside of that is, I'm an extreme "I" so if the particular "NF" is also an extreme "I" that could be an issue of patience, hence the whole "peek-a-boo" thing I was talking about in that particular thread, in which rowingineden was referring to.

For some odd reason, it never fails, I always seem to attract the sensitive types/NF's, I can get along well with NT's on a more intellectual level, but can't really connect romantically with them, it's like sterile to me, I really don't know how to explain that. I think when it comes to romance, I feel more connected with NF, however there also has to be some form of mental stimulation going on for me, otherwise, I will feel no connection. For me, a balance of sensitivity and intellect are the best combinations and as long as those combinations are all on the same page and not at war with each other, then I think it can work really well.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,026 Posts
"Fluffy" is the wrong word. SO the wrong word.

I find the idealism is so basic I don't need it to be brought out - I need to tone it down sometimes, because apparently it is pressuring.
INFPs help bring out my sillier side, though. Which is never that far away, but somehow...I know that they know it is part of me and don't see it as incongruous, somehow, whereas many other types seem to find it surprising that I giggle and love kittens and ridiculous things. ENFPs...they tend to caricature my silly side too much, so I withdraw and tone it down deliberately "yes, I'm silly, but not like that; yes I'm kind, but not sweet" - they're convinced I have a gooey marshmallowy centre and I do not. I am just an idealist and a basically decent person. It's not fucking twee. And no, I don't like hugs.

Generalising from experience, obviously.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,999 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
"Fluffy." *snickers* I think, uh, if INTJs were a fabric or texture at their core, they'd possibly be satin. It might be construed as soft, but actually, it's more like, smooth, elegant, and shiny.
 

·
Subterranean Homesick Alien
Joined
·
11,928 Posts
That was a bad example, but I mean that there is something different than what is projected. That's the same for everyone, but I think that with them it's something that can be related to by xNFPs.
I more-so approach INTJs(and anyone really) trying to figure out what their core is rather than assuming they're 'fluffy'(or anything else) lol
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,026 Posts
"Fluffy." *snickers* I think, uh, if INTJs were a fabric or texture at their core, they'd possibly be satin. It might be construed as soft, but actually, it's more like, smooth, elegant, and shiny.
See, I like that. :laughing:

INFPs can do the silly and happy, but they have enough of an acquaintance with darkness and cynicism and introspection that there is room for understanding the black wit and delusional optimism of the INTJ, not needing to make it safer or more socially acceptable. We are a weird pair though - and communication can be a bitch.

That was a bad example, but I mean that there is something different than what is projected. That's the same for everyone, but I think that with them it's something that can be related to by xNFPs.
I more-so approach INTJs(and anyone really) trying to figure out what their core is rather than assuming they're 'fluffy'(or anything else) lol
Projected by other people, though, not so much by us. I find there is a tendency in ENFPs - indeed all extraverts - to think we introverts are hiding something. When really, we're not, we just...are quiet sometimes? And some ENFPs want to make us cutesy and non-threatening to show that they know we're not really intimidating...when we're not that either, although there is little reason to be intimidated. There is no inside/outside. There is just us, and people who are intimidated because they don't get it. I find extraverts in general can often get too caught up in the "you're not like you seem!" idea...find it too interesting...while I favour the cut through the crap, just see me approach. It is a personal preference as well though. XNFPs are alike though in more often knowing that there is no reason to be intimidated than most other types (except our own, of course), which is nice, and they see the silly. It's just that I find some Es get too caught up in the idea of seeing through something that isn't really there anyway, and I don't really care. Again, some.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,999 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
That was a bad example, but I mean that there is something different than what is projected. That's the same for everyone, but I think that with them it's something that can be related to by xNFPs.
I more-so approach INTJs(and anyone really) trying to figure out what their core is rather than assuming they're 'fluffy'(or anything else) lol
I see their core from the start, usually, at least a glimpse, and I smile as I see INTJs assert themselves in the world, and then explain them to other people who would otherwise villainize them. I think INTJs and INFPs make good friends sometimes in that they can help each other be more effective in the world.
 

·
Subterranean Homesick Alien
Joined
·
11,928 Posts
I see their core from the start, usually, at least a glimpse, and I smile as I see INTJs assert themselves in the world, and then explain them to other people who would otherwise villainize them.
I don't usually trust myself when I try to read people lol
I just like to try and understand people beyond what they seem as it seems a lot of people tend to judge that part of the person. I think people do that especially with INTJs.

I think INTJs and INFPs make good friends sometimes in that they can help each other be more effective in the world.
That's completely true, I think.

I'm talking too much on here...-_-

I'm perfectly acquainted with darkness, that's why I hate that stereotype of ENFPs being bubbly and...fluffy and whatnot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,999 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I don't usually trust myself when I try to read people lol
I just like to try and understand people beyond what they seem as it seems a lot of people tend to judge that part of the person. I think people do that especially with INTJs.

That's completely true, I think.

I'm talking too much on here...-_-

I'm perfectly acquainted with darkness, that's why I hate that stereotype of ENFPs being bubbly and...fluffy and whatnot.
Ah, see, my Ni is really well developed from early childhood when I relied so much on it for well, basic survival. It is so well-trained, that I very rarely have to question it much - I keep some skepticism in mind, but I can usually be pretty confident in my instincts. :laughing:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,026 Posts
I don't usually trust myself when I try to read people lol
I just like to try and understand people beyond what they seem as it seems a lot of people tend to judge that part of the person. I think people do that especially with INTJs.

That's completely true, I think.

I'm talking too much on here...-_-

I'm perfectly acquainted with darkness, that's why I hate that stereotype of ENFPs being bubbly and...fluffy and whatnot.
I think most people project the seems onto INTJs. Everything is out there already, it's just that there are preconceived ideas too. Weird ones. All types have that issue of course, it's just our stereotypes are so much unfriendlier.

INFPs....hide the darkness less, no matter that they try. ENFPs can have it, but it's almost more private since they have a more social need to appear vividly cheerful and many of them seem to compensate through excessive fluffiness? And I think some who are still a bit uncomfortable with the "coldness" of INTJs, whatever the hell that means, are more likely to treat it as cute, disarm it - whereas INFPs will treat it as hostile in that case. Hostile is a little more direct and I am more used to it and think I can overcome it with a mature person. Cute or fluffy feels...demeaning. I'd rather the first misunderstanding - though neither is obviously best. Again, probably a personal preference. Also a generalisation.

In some ways, INTJs are the least depressed of the three, though we appear so negative. I've dealt with abuse and all kinds of unpleasantness...but despite that, many kinds of doubt and insecurity and unhappiness that so many types take for granted I have no acquaintance with whatsoever. I just...don't get it.
 

·
Subterranean Homesick Alien
Joined
·
11,928 Posts
I think ENFPs may seem cheerful or fluffy, but I don't feel like I really am. I just appreciate people and life and try to make the most of it rather than focusing on the negative. Because that really gets nowhere at all...I recognize the negative and I really am pretty cynical with my views on some things, but I focus more on how I can act.
People tend to assume that ENFPs are just totally happy and cheerful, but that's not true. It's the same thing, really haha

I don't see the 'coldness' as cute or hostile. I've heard some people say that, and it seems very dumb lol
I don't even see coldness, though...My sister's one, and I really don't see her as cold.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,999 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I think most people project the seems onto INTJs. Everything is out there already, it's just that there are preconceived ideas too. Weird ones. All types have that issue of course, it's just our stereotypes are so much unfriendlier.

INFPs....hide the darkness less, no matter that they try. ENFPs can have it, but it's almost more private since they have a more social need to appear vividly cheerful and many of them seem to compensate through excessive fluffiness? And I think some who are still a bit uncomfortable with the "coldness" of INTJs, whatever the hell that means, are more likely to treat it as cute, disarm it - whereas INFPs will treat it as hostile in that case. Hostile is a little more direct and I am more used to it and think I can overcome it with a mature person. Cute or fluffy feels...demeaning. I'd rather the first misunderstanding - though neither is obviously best. Again, probably a personal preference. Also a generalisation.

In some ways, INTJs are the least depressed of the three, though we appear so negative. I've dealt with abuse and all kinds of unpleasantness...but despite that, many kinds of doubt and insecurity and unhappiness that so many types take for granted I have no acquaintance with whatsoever. I just...don't get it.
"Fluffy" in the xNFP is the same as "cold" in the INTJ - it is what other people perceive and it's a part of our invented outer selves, and after hearing other people describe us in this way, some of us (not me, pshaw) can start to perceive ourselves that way, but it's not really part of who we are. Both are... misinterpretations, I think. (I've accused other xNFPs of being too "fluffy", too. Actually, I accuse a lot of people of that. It really grates on my nerves.) I think more stuff was in parenthesis in this paragraph than not.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,026 Posts
I think ENFPs may seem cheerful or fluffy, but I don't feel like I really am. I just appreciate people and life and try to make the most of it rather than focusing on the negative. Because that really gets nowhere at all...I recognize the negative and I really am pretty cynical with my views on some things, but I focus more on how I can act.
People tend to assume that ENFPs are just totally bubbly, but that's not true. It's the same thing, really haha

I don't see the 'coldness' as cute or hostile, I've heard some people say that, and it seems very dumb lol
That's why I focus on the negative - because it tells me how I can act. Problems to solve=reasons to work. Different sources of motivation, totally.

To be clear, I don't think ENFPs are fluffy, I just cannot stand easily too much focus on the positive in conversation, or it seems like denial or lack of awareness of reality. I really have to work to turn off that discomfort even when I know it isn't the case. I've never really seen it as cheerful. ENFPs act a lot fluffier than they are, I just resist their portrayal of the world as fluffy - or me as fluffy - knowing still that the portrayal is not always sincere. I guess the extroversion made it seem more deliberate to me, and many seem to portray it as a choice to see the good. I think most are a lot more unhappy and insecure than I am and probably more in touch with many kinds of emotional pain that I just...don't get.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,999 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
That's why I focus on the negative - because it tells me how I can act. Problems to solve=reasons to work. Different sources of motivation, totally.

To be clear, I don't think ENFPs are fluffy, I just cannot stand easily too much focus on the positive in conversation, or it seems like denial or lack of awareness of reality. I really have to work to turn off that discomfort even when I know it isn't the case. ENFPs act a lot fluffier than they are, I just resist their portrayal of the world as fluffy - or me as fluffy - knowing still that the portrayal is not always sincere. I think most are a lot more unhappy and insecure than I am and probably more in touch with many kinds of emotional pain that I just...don't get.
I notice that in ENFPs - they insist on light-hearted music, light-hearted conversation, etc. I do draw out other sides of them, and it unsettles them.
 

·
Subterranean Homesick Alien
Joined
·
11,928 Posts
That's what stays inside, for me. I ain't all that open and that's what stays INSIDE :dry:
If people try to get me to open up, I kinda get irritated lol
My true thoughts and feelings are not very stereotypically ENFP, but they stay inside.

I feel that way too sometimes :frustrating:
VV
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
838 Posts
What I gathered form this thread: I must be one weird ass ENFP.

EDIT: Additionally, like Nyx, I've always considered ENFPs to be the "inside out" of INTJs. But from my personal observation, the wording of this theory is not necessarily accurate; INTJs and ENFPs gives off completely "opposite" impression, the "cold" and the "fluffy" but they're not necessarily the opposite on the inside. Instead the "inside" tend to be much less extreme in for both types term of "cold versus fluffy" scale, and deviation from "reality" and "impression" does not necessarily come from the person covering up their personality, but due to faulty perception and expectations of people surrounding them. It's not surprising at all that I found INTJs I associate with to be very similar to myself once the initial bias in perception and possible "cover up" is removed by familiarity and increased level of comfort within the relationship.

tl;dr: xNFP + INTJ = Fi/Te goodness.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,026 Posts
That's what stays inside, for me. I ain't all that open and that's what stays INSIDE :dry:
If people try to get me to open up, I kinda get irritated lol
Yeah, I get irritated if someone does that too. But it's because I'm already open, goddamnit. Even though it doesn't look it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,999 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
That's what stays inside, for me. I ain't all that open and that's what stays INSIDE :dry:
If people try to get me to open up, I kinda get irritated lol
My true thoughts and feelings are not very stereotypically ENFP, but they stay inside.

I feel that way too sometimes :frustrating:
VV
Ha. I know ENFPs don't like to open up in that way. Somehow I end up making that happen with my ENFP friends anyway. They usually get really thrown off and quickly change the subject or withdraw afterwards or whatever. They're like, frustrated, like "WHY DO YOU DO THAT TO ME?!"

Hmm... I think ENFPs outnumber any other type in my circle of friends; it's like, a 4:1 ratio with other INFs and 8:1 with INTJs, and then probably there are a few xNTPs in there, and my warm acquaintances are probably all xSFPs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eylrid and Vaka
1 - 20 of 131 Posts
Top