[skaftafell]

Hey there, I'm still a newbie to the site and was turned on to it by my INTJ boyfriend. He loves this stuff, which is great because now I can try to understand him more through all of you guys. He's absolutely fascinating, but still throws me for a curve at times. I'm slowly learning the quirks and even enjoy them a little, but wonder what he may think of mine. I'm not the stereotypical "emotional basket case" INFP, so please cut me some slack and spare me the overly broad assumptions. I may be sensual, but I'm also sensible. I just don't want my affectionate nature to be a force that unintentionally drives my INTJ away.

He's very independent and loves his space, which I can appreciate. He's a bit of a selfish lover and says that there's no challenge for him; that I make it too easy. The LAST thing I am is easy and rarely do I ever let people into my personal space. When I do, though, I'm just extremely affectionate with the people I care about. I don't play games and have always been forthright and honest, but I am a little taken aback by his comment (but I'm not insulted).

I find everything about him attractive, particularly his mind. Every iota of my being is drawn to him and I have no guards against this. I'm a very expressive person and the times I can't find words are those when I use my body. I'm only doing what's natural and acting upon how HE makes me feel towards him, so it's his fault, not mine! I love being physical and just feeling him, whether it's cuddling or simply walking down the street and holding hands. It's just come to light that he feels a little stifled by some of this, though (even when HE'S the one that initiates it!).

I don't want to suffocate him, but he says that he gets this way with everyone... that he just needs space and time alone to recharge. He assures me that it's nothing against me, though he's asked me to tone it down because he feels guilty that he's not returning the effort. I said I would, but only if he steps it up... I have needs, too, and it's only going to work between us through some kind of compromise. It would nice to see some reciprocation, or at least a little more effort exerted on his part.

I was previously in a bad relationship before, one where there was no physical compatibility, amongst other things. I'm extremely loyal, even to a fault. I couldn't break it off even though it was killing me. I tried to several times, but the guy just wouldn't let go and move on. I only stuck around because he was going through a really rough time and knew that he needed my help. However, I sacrificed many of my wants and needs for his sake. I don't ever want to be in this kind of scenario again, but I seriously don't think this new guy is like that.

He just operates differently and I need to figure out what makes him tick; what actions push certain buttons. Both of us have been on our own for a while and have perfected our individual quirks and habits. We're still feeling each other out, but we both know that at least we generally hold true to our personality types. I know he cares for me and the fact that we're even communicating about this is huge. I really, really, really like him and know that the feeling is mutual. I knew within fifteen minutes of meeting him that he could be it... the one, but he may take this as me just being irrational or desperate. I've told him this, but wonder if it's an unfair and heavy load for someone that approaches life with their head, not their heart. He said it's not and appreciates my complete honesty. He told me he's envious of me because I'm so sure of my feelings, something his logic can't quite comprehend. Likewise, I love his analytical process, yet wonder why he let's it get in the way of him expressing his feelings.

I'm perfectly fine on my own, though it gets lonely. I don't need anyone to complete me, but never before have I ever found someone that complemented me so intimately. It's like he was engineered, just for me. For once, I finally have a wealth of common interests with someone. Our pasts are also similar, allowing us to understand each other and see things from a better perspective. We have the most amazing discussions, everything from politics to science. Every conversation is a flood of mental orgasms. But the quiet times are just as powerful. I can't help but to express how he's making me feel and it would be against my nature to not do so. All I want to do is rip his clothes off and jump his bones, but I have to be cognizant of his boundaries and his emotions. I just wonder if he's sensitive to my perspective and can see things from my point of view. He's more reserved and analytical, choosing to think things through (exhaustively, but admirably) before he acts. I don't want to scare him off by my passionate eagerness to please him, nor do I want to push him away by pretending to be aloof. Any advice?

 

[bionic]

This was all tl;dr for me. Break it up into paragraphs next time please.

The most effective way to communicate with him is to be opened, honest, and tell him your needs because he is not a mind reader.

 

[Murky Muse]

Really, you seem to be doing pretty well so far. You've got the typically shared INTJ traits covered and are respectful of them, but at the same time recognize that he also needs to care for your needs. Communication seems good.

The only thing I can see as a possible issue is that you seem to be afraid your INTJ will see your passionate side as irrational and overly emotional. Since I don't know the guy, I can say for sure what he thinks about that. But much like how you admire his ability to think things throught, he could admire that part of you (even if it's irrational too him). Also INTJs tend to be fairly good at seeing things from another view if that perspective is explained to us.

 

[InvisibleJim]

I'm confused, was there a question above? Uhm, well done!

 

[skaftafell]

The most effective way to communicate with him is to be opened, honest, and tell him your needs because he is not a mind reader.

Which I completely agree with. I wish I had ESP, but unfortunately am stuck with having to speak my mind. He and I communicate well, verbally. Physically, it isn't bad, but he could try harder.

A big factor is that we're gay and both come from very strong conservative backgrounds. Neither of us saw openly gay couples growing up because homosexuality was "unnatural and a sin" and have always had to repress this aspect of our lives. Even today, we shy away from publicly displaying this. There's an openly gay part of town that we go to sometimes, the only place where he'll drop his guard a little. We walked down the street holding hands the other day and it was one of the most empowering things I've ever felt in my life. I HATE having to bottle up my emotions, but the fact that I could stand by my man and proudly proclaim my feelings for him was pure bliss. I just wish we could do this elsewhere in town without any fear of bigotry or repercussion. We have the privacy of our homes, but neither of us are dirty little secrets. Heteros get to flaunt their love for each other, so why can't we?

It's interesting between us sexually, too. I won't go into any detail, but it's safe to say I'm putting in the effort and he's reaping the benefits. He feels guilty afterwards (remnants of being raised in church?) and then rarely reciprocates. I don't play games in life and I definitely don't play games in bed. I'm noticing that I'm pretty much ready to rumble at any given moment, while he's like a reservoir. When the dam floods it's great, but it takes time for it to be replenished. I can't make him do something he doesn't want to, but it's a bit of a sting when it's something sexual. It's not the looks... we're both your average, all-American kind of guys. And it's nothing silly or kinky. I care for him and have no problem with expressing this, while he seems to contemplate the mysteries of the universe before getting back to me on how he feels. I love his ability to travel space-time, but how do I keep him coming back to Earth?

 

[lirulin]

There is very little in this world that is more pressuring than someone expecting you to not only express your emotions, but do so in a way they think is normal and you don't, being held to a very strict standard - which, if you don't meet it, means something. Especially if obligation ("reciprocation") is imposed on it, so you're expected to apologise and feel guilty too for not being a completely different person - even if you are expressing your affection in ways normal to you you're in debt, because apparently that isn't good enough.
Besides, expressing "emotion" is so... it's feeling and it's short-term. Affection is easier stored in terms of intentions, expectations, promises, actions, decisions, goals. Something tangible, future-oriented, and easier to deal with in terms of thought. Outright expression of just a feeling is much less easy and it doesn't feel like the important part either.
To clarify: just assuming that it should be easy counts as pressure. You needn't be actively and obnoxiously pressuringto have the effect and I am not making that accusation.

Don't assume he's not trying hard for starters. He may not be succeeding but although you clearly have some understanding, it is harder perhaps than you realise and he may not have any desire to "succeed" in the way you want for some of it, but rather get you to understand why he can't and why it isn't always a problem if you just understand. And if you understand and it still is a problem then talk about it, fuck yeah, but any time your interpretation (or the way you say it) of his actions is off or exaggerated, it will appear that the problem is understanding, not his actions, which will confuse or even derail any attempts at solving it since you'll be after solving different problems. Probably just pick and choose your battles, pick a few specific issues that bother you most, and leave him input as well as you on how to solve it, thus avoiding having too restrictive, idealised expectations. He can change actions, we all need to do some of that, but not his personality.

 

[antiant]

http://personalitycafe.com/intj-forum-scientists/24815-intj-meets-infp.html

 

[dagdraumur]

Lirulin is generally brilliant, so I would first and foremost suggest her advice.

Just to clarify though, your problem is the sex, right? And that he's not "reciprocating." Please forgive my bluntness, but are you saying that you are not getting enough sexual pleasure, like orgasms, etc? and that you would like him to be more engaged in the process? and his comment was that it's not physically challenging enough.

Are the sports that he does like usually 1v1? Is he noticeably stronger than you? Usually the top? Typically dominant?

I'm using an alarming amount of intuition on this one, so please tell me if I am off base, but:
I think you should challenge his dominance more in the bedroom. You don't necessarily have to dominate the situation, but make it a struggle that he has to work harder to win.

 

[skaftafell]

Besides, expressing "emotion" is so... it's feeling and it's short-term. Affection is easier stored in terms of intentions, expectations, promises, actions, decisions, goals. Something tangible, future-oriented, and easier to deal with in terms of thought. Outright expression of just a feeling is much less easy and it doesn't feel like the important part either.

To clarify: just assuming that it should be easy counts as pressure. You needn't be actively and obnoxiously pressuring to have the effect and I am not making that accusation.

Wow! Never in a million years would I have considered that my actions were unintentionally pressuring him. I don't normally act like this around anyone and have a 100 ft perimeter around me at all times. Practically no one gets in, emotionally, but all of my guards have dropped for this guy. I have next to no restraints and he's already asked me to tone it down, which I have. He actually had to leave town for a couple weeks, which is great for us because we both need the time and space to think and process everything. It's been a whirlwind romance so far and both of us have acted somewhat uncharacteristically of ourselves. I have these crazy checklists that I mentally check off when meeting would-be suitors, but this guy obliterated them. I look at him and see a future, but I don't want to jeopardize that by acting irrationally. I'm not an idiot and am by no means looking for the L word right now, but know in my head, heart, and gut that I care for this guy. I know he cares for me in return.

And the reciprocation I mentioned was definitely in reference to the sex. With my luck, he's probably reading this thread right now! But at least we've talked about this already, so no surprises there. I've backed off, but am a little miffed. I love intimacy and love being intimate with him, but it's a blow to my pride when it's not returned. I would never want him to do something he doesn't want to and only want his affection towards me to be real. I have no desire for fake intimacy and am willing to give him the time he needs. I think a huge factor here is that I'm uncensored in tying emotions with physical intimacy, while he is much more calculated about his feelings. Anyway, I never really thought of making it challenging for him. I don't want to be perceived as "easy", but I don't want to be a pain in the ass either (sorry, I had to). We don't have any roles and we both are into individual kinds of sports. He seems a little more competitive, though. I've never really enjoyed games, so playing hard-to-get is going to be difficult with the one guy that has turned my world upside-down.

 

[dagdraumur]

I'm definitely not suggesting playing games like "hard-to-get", I would describe it more as playing with the dynamics of power, similar to sexy wrestling, but usually without the choke holds.

kinda like this, but sexier.:happy:

Edit: Note that the blond girl is disappointed that the brunette is not fighting back.

 

[skaftafell]

That was actually kind of cute. I'm pretty sure I can improve upon that, though. All kinds of ideas just flew through my mind. OK, so maybe I'll try something like this, but it's inevitably going to involve oil and jockstraps:wink:... thanks!

 

[lirulin]

I'm definitely not suggesting playing games like "hard-to-get", I would describe it more as playing with the dynamics of power, similar to sexy wrestling, but usually without the choke holds.

kinda like this, but sexier.:happy:

YouTube - ‪Platonic Lesbian Wrestling‬‎

Edit: Note that the blond girl is disappointed that the brunette is not fighting back.

that was cute...

Also: I sympathise with the blonde girl. People not fighting back = SO LAME. Dull, pointless, awkward, a total waste of time...winning is SO not the point. It's always way too easy. LAME.

 

[skaftafell]

It's actually really interesting to watch the blonde's response to the other girl's lack of involvement... kind of how I feel. However, I get the dynamics of power and making it a little more intriguing for him will definitely spice things up... for us both. Regardless, he cares for me and how I feel, but doesn't always show it. (nor should he have to... it's understood). He's a big softie, even though he'd never admit it. I still know there's a pearl beneath that rough exterior.

Quick question... have any of your relationships with INFPs gone on to become successful longterm ones?

 

[dagdraumur]

I have yet to have an entirely successful long term relationship. ... Guess I should have made that disclaimer before I started handing out relationship advice.:crazy:

 

[Praxidike]

I recently got out of a relationship with an INFP and i am an INTJ myself! Just remember, when he's being honest and direct with you that he is not intending to critiscize you...that's probably his way of showing he cares or showing his emotions without actually showing them! My ex told me that i was too honest and direct and it drove them away but that was my way of showing my love and emotions!

 

[skaftafell]

Well, I've got some bad news...

My boyfriend classified me as an INFP, so I just accepted it and went about my way here. Didn't understand some of the Ni/Fe stuff that was going on, so I looked up the tests. I feel like an idiot for not having done this before I started posting, but I just took the actual personality test. Turns out I'm an INFJ (is this good? It definitely sounds like me). I'm still the same guy, but absolutely agree with the characteristics. It's frightening how accurate some of them can be, though!

But my questions still remain and I'm looking for any and all insight into my INTJ guy. Have any of you dated INFJs? How'd that go? I have to admit that I was insecure and had low self-esteem before, but that was before I accepted my sexuality. Being openly gay now has been the most liberating experience and I no longer hide behind the fear, guilt, and shame that the church forced down my throat. There's a new level of confidence there that has taken root and made me a much stronger man. I'm still sensitive and caring, but a little more thick-skinned.

 

[Praxidike]

Well, I've got some bad news...

My boyfriend classified me as an INFP, so I just accepted it and went about my way here. Didn't understand some of the Ni/Fe stuff that was going on, so I looked up the tests. I feel like an idiot for not having done this before I started posting, but I just took the actual personality test. Turns out I'm an INFJ (is this good? It definitely sounds like me). I'm still the same guy, but absolutely agree with the characteristics. It's frightening how accurate some of them can be, though!

But my questions still remain and I'm looking for any and all insight into my INTJ guy. Have any of you dated INFJs? How'd that go? I have to admit that I was insecure and had low self-esteem before, but that was before I accepted my sexuality. Being openly gay now has been the most liberating experience and I no longer hide behind the fear, guilt, and shame that the church forced down my throat. There's a new level of confidence there that has taken root and made me a much stronger man. I'm still sensitive and caring, but a little more thick-skinned.

I'm an INTJ female, i can tell you that we tend to hold back on our emotions, not because we don't feel them but because we don't want to put ourselves in a vulnerable position! Well that's me anyways! There usually tends to be conflict when I'm in a relationship with someone, particularly INF's, but not because i enjoy fighting, i just use conflict as a way to learn about the other person! INTJ's also tend to be very honest and direct but it's not sometthing that you should feel threatened by! I know my INFP ex felt very threatened by my directness!

 

[skaftafell]

Thanks for that. Sounds very similar to my INTJ, but I'm not complaining. We each need our space, but definitely him moreso than myself. And I know he's just a big softie inside. He just doesn't always show it. It's a little frustrating at times, but he's getting better about initiating affection. I'm all for cuddling and am his teddy bear when he needs me, but he's actually pretty good about perceiving my needs, so long as I just talk about them upfront. He's brilliant and easily escapes the world by focusing on his tasks, so dropping hints is only lost on him... no beating around the bush for us!

We communicate remarkably well, which I absolutely love. I speak a different love language and am able to express my emotions/feelings physically, while he prefers being vocal. I don't mind his bluntness... he's just being honest, not insensitive. We encourage that, actually. I just wish he'd "show" me what's going on in that heart of his at times and he wishes I'd talk about what I'm feeling more. Time is proving to give us better understanding of these things, though.

We're still new to each other, so I understand if it's hard for him to equate emotions to anything we do yet. Again, it just takes time. I'm different, though. I knew within 15 minutes that this guy was incredible and someone I wanted to pursue, even have in my future. Each second I spend with him only further solidifies and strengthens my feelings. I have my guards and barriers, but not with him. I have a horrible poker face and he already knows a good deal of what's going on in my head/heart, but I still don't want to make it too easy for him... he's said a few times that he likes a challenge. All of his friends like me and have told me that he's crazy about me, even though he'd never tell me that. It's odd that he would feel vulnerable with me when he makes me feel stronger.

 

[Calypso]

Skaftafell, why do you ask for INFP/INTJ advise if your profile says that u are INFJ? Just wondering.

 

[AmberJorr]

We're still new to each other, so I understand if it's hard for him to equate emotions to anything we do yet. Again, it just takes time. I'm different, though. I knew within 15 minutes that this guy was incredible and someone I wanted to pursue, even have in my future. Each second I spend with him only further solidifies and strengthens my feelings. I have my guards and barriers, but not with him. I have a horrible poker face and he already knows a good deal of what's going on in my head/heart, but I still don't want to make it too easy for him... he's said a few times that he likes a challenge. All of his friends like me and have told me that he's crazy about me, even though he'd never tell me that. It's odd that he would feel vulnerable with me when he makes me feel stronger.

Emotions are not an INTJ's strong suit. They can be very overwhelming for us as well as very difficult to understand. You're right, time really is the answer. The more time you have together, the more time he'll have to get used to how he feels. I doubt that he minds how emotional you are, if fact he's probably in awe of the strength of your feelings...though he might worry that he can't possibly return them with the same intensity.

Also, kudos to you on doing your best to communicate with each other. With INTJs it's important to just ask outright about anything that is bothering you or that you might want to know. Make sure you tell him that you want to know if you're being too clingy or whatever.


(BTW, I could tell from your first post that you didn't quite sound like an INFP. INFJ fits you much better. :laughing