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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
It is discouraging to see few INFPs (particularly 4w5s) succeed. It is discouraging that what we are known for (art, music etc.) tends to be done just as well, and often more interestingly, by other types. We don't have that particular thing we're best at.

When I listen to INFJ and INTJ music, for instance, it's clear that they have more skill (think thom yorke who is INFJ 4w5, trent reznor) INFP music can be pleasant, but it's simple and direct. It doesn't make people *feel* any more than music from other types... it isn't inherently 'deeper' because we're so feely. There's nothing much to it. Anyone can make it. It is overdone, and often saccharine and emo.

An INTP friend told me once that it's like everyone has tentacles and is grasping onto the well-worn whale of life, and I have more suction cups on the tentacles, but the grasp is the same as all others' suction cups, meaning: There is nothing different about my emotion, there's just more of it. It is neither more deep nor more interesting. It's a lot of nothing.

I don't mean to get down on my type, but I feel like if all INFPs were eradicated from the world, nothing would change. There are plenty of feeling types who would be outright kind, plenty of creatives (and perhaps more intricately talented people) who aren't INFP. Plenty of more driven people (often INFJ) who would get important human stuff done. And they are just as capable of forming moral opinions as us, even with their Fe; they are complex and intricate people and quite visionary. People say John Lennon was an INFP... he was some kind of ENXP from what I've read and seen of his actual personality. The truly talented 'dreamer's we claim as one of us aren't even one of us! Many exceptional, inspiring actors are INFJ, the INFP ones seem to be boring and sub-par.

We are supposedly known for being writers, but the most famous 'INFP writer', JK Rowling, is a self-typed INFJ! There seem to be very few famous INFP writers in all actuality. When I think about contemporary writers I like and listen to them speak and whatnot, they tend to be INFJ or INTJ. And I thjink George RR Martin and Neil Gaiman are both INTP from having watched tons of interviews of them. Virtually no decent INFP authors.

We get the emos of the 80s like robert smith of the cure, embarrassingly trite 'airy fairy' people like tori amos, etc. the only genuinely innovative famous INFP is Louis CK, from what I can gather. Nirvana's music was fairly simplistic; it was mainly important because of when it came along and what it represented... the music itself isn't that timeless or interesting. And then, of course, there's the whole INFP suicide thing and how most of us tend to be miserable more frequently than pretty much every other type.

This is so very depressing to me. I feel like any sense of contributing to the world, having some great vision is unlikely... I just don't have the tools for it. Let's face it, Fi+Ne just isn't interesting or inspiring or utilitarian. Most of us are just meek little people who don't accomplish much, get walked over and told we're too emo and write emo, boring music. Sorry, but this is just something I've been contemplating for awhle. I can't help but wish I were a productive, logical type or at least a more interesting feeler, or maybe just a more popular one because: might as well have fun like ENFPs if you're gonna be burdened with tons of feelz!

So basically, for all of the deep pain that we all experience... the contributions we can make just don't make up for it. Sad.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Actually, no. I think my comment addresses all of the things that are said in that thread. Other feeling types do the 'jobs' that we do with more efficiency, care and energy + just as much depth of feeling.

I'd rather be a complex person with something interesting to give. I feel like 'INFP' is a huge joke; like let's take the most helpless, ridiculous parts of human nature, make them the majority of that person, and put them in someone who can't get anything done and has no real innate coping mechanisms for the all-encompassing feeling. I have yet to see an INFP who is as skilled as other types at a particular craft

*Edit*: Oh, and I forgot to mention how we're by far the least desirable intuitive to date + most dating threads about INFP consist of all the other types shitting on us.
 

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we may never be as efficient, but some ways we have the richest, most nuanced experience of the world. i'd say it's a pretty fair tradeoff.

the world functions on a hegemonic ideology of competition, conformity, and self-destruction. maybe you're right, maybe infps are just ill-suited to survive in a world like this. but i'd say that this just means we get to the 'essence' of life far more quickly than others. what you're experiencing as frustration with your own 'uselessness' is perhaps actually a legitimate protest against a system for which there is no visible alternative (and one we didn't actually ask to be born into). and that's the thing--infps excel at intuiting the invisible, the 'beyond.'

i know i'll never be useful in the way that others are, but i don't demand that of myself anymore. what's important to me is that occasionally, people who i choose to get close to will tell me that i've changed them for good, that i've shown them a glimpse of something 'real,' that they'll never meet someone like me again. this isn't to inflate my own importance, just to identify that the contributions we make to society are often hidden but profound nonetheless.

keep on going, fellow infp.
 

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oh, and i thought i'd just add: i know quite a few entjs who have nothing but the highest respect for infps. keep in mind that entjs are probably the most 'useful' type in society. what does that say about us?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
we may never be as efficient, but some ways we have the richest, most nuanced experience of the world. i'd say it's a pretty fair tradeoff.

the world functions on a hegemonic ideology of competition, conformity, and self-destruction. maybe you're right, maybe infps are just ill-suited to survive in a world like this. but i'd say that this just means we get to the 'essence' of life far more quickly than others. what you're experiencing as frustration with your own 'uselessness' is perhaps actually a legitimate protest against a system for which there is no visible alternative (and one we didn't actually ask to be born into). and that's the thing--infps excel at intuiting the invisible, the 'beyond.'

i know i'll never be useful in the way that others are, but i don't demand that of myself anymore. what's important to me is that occasionally, people who i choose to get close to will tell me that i've changed them for good, that i've shown them a glimpse of something 'real,' that they'll never meet someone like me again. this isn't to inflate my own importance, just to identify that the contributions we make to society are often hidden but profound nonetheless.

keep on going, fellow infp.
ehh i'd say all intuitives have a nuanced, rich experience of the world... that's entirely subjective, isn't it?

actually INFJs are better at intuiting the 'beyond'... INFJs tend to be better than us at everything, really.
 

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Society measures a person's worth by how much weight they can pull. Do not fall in the trap of measuring yourself by those same standards. To be useful is to be used, and society does not have our consent to weigh its concerns on our shoulders. However, INFPs in general desire the adoration and respect of others, which does certainly hurt us as we carve out our own path in life.
 

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ehh i'd say all intuitives have a nuanced, rich experience of the world... that's entirely subjective, isn't it?
fair enough. i certainly didn't mean to imply that infps are special snowflakes...

but i would still claim that there is something very specific about introverted feeling when it is paired with extraverted intuition. it makes our experience of the world more heightened, more erotically felt, as if the entire universe of external phenomenon is pouring into and nourishing our subjectivity.

maybe what we're good at ultimately is just *being.* lol. that's not a bad thing, since that's what humans spend most their time doing anyway--they just don't notice it, because they're too busy turning themselves into a function or vessel or wage-slave. :shrug:

actually INFJs are better at intuiting the 'beyond'... INFJs tend to be better than us at everything, really.
haha. so what i'm getting from this is that we infps should just accept that we are disposable lives and move on? X)
 

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There is a lot going on in your post that, right now at least, I would be unable to convince you otherwise. But I'll give you a couple of takes.

I think you undervalue INFPs in the music world. Trying to put a type to a musician is a fools errand. Unless the person explicitly states what they are, be wary of nay type that is attributed to a musician. Having said that I am going to give the INFP attribute to a couple of musicians. Alan Sparhawk of low is most likely an INFP. No one in the "slow-core" (i hate the term) genre is a better songwriter than he is. No one. Kevin Shields of My Bloody Valentine is an absolute visionary. Jeff Mangum has produced one of the greatest albums ever. Robert Smith is great by the way. Plus there is Ian Curtis and Elliot Smith. Maybe not all of these are INFPs but I think there are plenty who have made a genuine and unique contribution.

INFPs make the best counselors and therapists hands down. They may not be household names or get recognition but they are absolutely vital in society. INFPs were probably the spiritual leaders in primitive society.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
There is a lot going on in your post that, right now at least, I would be unable to convince you otherwise. But I'll give you a couple of takes.

I think you undervalue INFPs in the music world. Trying to put a type to a musician is a fools errand. Unless the person explicitly states what they are, be wary of nay type that is attributed to a musician. Having said that I am going to give the INFP attribute to a couple of musicians. Alan Sparhawk of low is most likely an INFP. No one in the "slow-core" (i hate the term) genre is a better songwriter than he is. No one. Kevin Shields of My Bloody Valentine is an absolute visionary. Jeff Mangum has produced one of the greatest albums ever. Robert Smith is great by the way. Plus there is Ian Curtis and Elliot Smith. Maybe not all of these are INFPs but I think there are plenty who have made a genuine and unique contribution.

INFPs make the best counselors and therapists hands down. They may not be household names or get recognition but they are absolutely vital in society. INFPs were probably the spiritual leaders in primitive society.
yeah, i guess i feel like a lot of those musicians made pretty simple, sorta emo music... nothing super complex, you know? like i enjoy listening to elliott smith but he was no visionary.. just a depressed dude with a guitar.

INFJs actually tend to make better therapists... INFPs can definitely be good therapists but I think the Ni-Fe combo is better suited for helping all kinds of people step by step
 

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It is discouraging to see few INFPs (particularly 4w5s) succeed. It is discouraging that what we are known for (art, music etc.) tends to be done just as well, and often more interestingly, by other types. We don't have that particular thing we're best at.

When I listen to INFJ and INTJ music, for instance, it's clear that they have more skill (think thom yorke who is INFJ 4w5, trent reznor) INFP music can be pleasant, but it's simple and direct. It doesn't make people *feel* any more than music from other types... it isn't inherently 'deeper' because we're so feely. There's nothing much to it. Anyone can make it. It is overdone, and often saccharine and emo.

An INTP friend told me once that it's like everyone has tentacles and is grasping onto the well-worn whale of life, and I have more suction cups on the tentacles, but the grasp is the same as all others' suction cups, meaning: There is nothing different about my emotion, there's just more of it. It is neither more deep nor more interesting. It's a lot of nothing.

I don't mean to get down on my type, but I feel like if all INFPs were eradicated from the world, nothing would change. There are plenty of feeling types who would be outright kind, plenty of creatives (and perhaps more intricately talented people) who aren't INFP. Plenty of more driven people (often INFJ) who would get important human stuff done. And they are just as capable of forming moral opinions as us, even with their Fe; they are complex and intricate people and quite visionary. People say John Lennon was an INFP... he was some kind of ENXP from what I've read and seen of his actual personality. The truly talented 'dreamer's we claim as one of us aren't even one of us! Many exceptional, inspiring actors are INFJ, the INFP ones seem to be boring and sub-par.

We are supposedly known for being writers, but the most famous 'INFP writer', JK Rowling, is a self-typed INFJ! There seem to be very few famous INFP writers in all actuality. When I think about contemporary writers I like and listen to them speak and whatnot, they tend to be INFJ or INTJ. And I thjink George RR Martin and Neil Gaiman are both INTP from having watched tons of interviews of them. Virtually no decent INFP authors.

We get the emos of the 80s like robert smith of the cure, embarrassingly trite 'airy fairy' people like tori amos, etc. the only genuinely innovative famous INFP is Louis CK, from what I can gather. Nirvana's music was fairly simplistic; it was mainly important because of when it came along and what it represented... the music itself isn't that timeless or interesting. And then, of course, there's the whole INFP suicide thing and how most of us tend to be miserable more frequently than pretty much every other type.

This is so very depressing to me. I feel like any sense of contributing to the world, having some great vision is unlikely... I just don't have the tools for it. Let's face it, Fi+Ne just isn't interesting or inspiring or utilitarian. Most of us are just meek little people who don't accomplish much, get walked over and told we're too emo and write emo, boring music. Sorry, but this is just something I've been contemplating for awhle. I can't help but wish I were a productive, logical type or at least a more interesting feeler, or maybe just a more popular one because: might as well have fun like ENFPs if you're gonna be burdened with tons of feelz!

So basically, for all of the deep pain that we all experience... the contributions we can make just don't make up for it. Sad.

A bold "first post" to the forum.

There is no real question here, rather a declaration posed as a desire for discourse :rolleyes:
 

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You sound just like @sarahbelle68, @LindfenSea...

I'm of the opinion that a person's mental boundaries create the same framework for their physical reality. You don't think you can do something? Yeah, you'll never do it. Not sure what you're trying to get out of this thread... group wallowing? But yeah, agreed with the above; I don't think you're looking for discourse.

I'm happy to be me and an INFP. It can be inconvenient to have a few extra emotions here and there and to have a pretty independent mindset, but overall I think it's served me very well. And as secondary as I consider it to my own set of standards, I would say I'm regarded as a high achiever as well.

Sidenote: I've always thought of Louis CK as an awesome and super aware INTP.
 

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bjork's new album...that's the kind of powerful shit infps are capable of.

jeff buckley.

in the literary world, you have sylvia plath, an obvious one, but also nicole krauss (who is probably a better writer than her husband, jonathan safran foer).
 

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Uh... I don't have the expertise and experience with INFPs to address every single thing in your post, but we absolutely do need them in our world, and could use more of them. Sometimes it's like they're the last ones that have their heads screwed on straight when all the rest of us have lost touch with our values and have become absorbed in meaningless data and superficial empiricism (disregarding how it could be in exchange for doing the easiest thing and working with existing structures/setup).
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
You sound just like @sarahbelle68, @LindfenSea...

I'm of the opinion that a person's mental boundaries create the same framework for their physical reality. You don't think you can do something? Yeah, you'll never do it. Not sure what you're trying to get out of this thread... group wallowing? But yeah, agreed with the above; I don't think you're looking for discourse.

I'm happy to be me and an INFP. It can be inconvenient to have a few extra emotions here and there and to have a pretty independent mindset, but overall I think it's served me very well. And as secondary as I consider it to my own set of standards, I would say I'm regarded as a high achiever as well.

Sidenote: I've always thought of Louis CK as an awesome and super aware INTP.
I'm not really looking for anything in particular; not every post has to have a specific purpose.

I'm aware that certain INFPs are happy but I see a greater proportion that are not, of any other type. I'm interesting in learning about super innovative contributions from Fi-Ne because I don't see too many, and yes, INFP music and art do have a certain flavor to them. It's not necessarily about what can be done... it's HOW and what the content is. It's about the inherent complexity and flavor to certain functions.

Nah, Louis CK is INFP... he romanticizes sadness too much be INTP--also, atrocious spelling.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
bjork's new album...that's the kind of powerful shit infps are capable of.

jeff buckley.

in the literary world, you have sylvia plath, an obvious one, but also nicole krauss (who is probably a better writer than her husband, jonathan safran foer).
Sylvia Plath is INFJ 4w5.

Jeff Buckley's music is pretty simple.

Bjork is cool but probably overrated because of novelty... her music isn't really that complex or fascinating when you get down to it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Uh... I don't have the expertise and experience with INFPs to address every single thing in your post, but we absolutely do need them in our world, and could use more of them. Sometimes it's like they're the last ones that have their heads screwed on straight when all the rest of us have lost touch with our values and have become absorbed in meaningless data and superficial empiricism (disregarding how it could be in exchange for doing the easiest thing and working with existing structures/setup).
And INFJs don't have their heads screwed on straight when it comes to values and doing right by people? IDK dude, I mean, I think all types lose their minds... often INFP morals are fairly subjective, personal, unrelatable etc. I'm not saying that certain INFPs can't bring a lot of hope and morality in certain ways, but I wouldn't say that happens enough to say that we're the ones who have our heads on straight
 

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yeah, i guess i feel like a lot of those musicians made pretty simple, sorta emo music... nothing super complex, you know? like i enjoy listening to elliott smith but he was no visionary.. just a depressed dude with a guitar.

INFJs actually tend to make better therapists... INFPs can definitely be good therapists but I think the Ni-Fe combo is better suited for helping all kinds of people step by step
Well, that is usually when an INFP creates, when they are angry, sad, or depressed, so that is what you get in a way. Is being a visionary or a leader what you feel gives someone worth? Do you know what percent of the population actually is a visionary? There are leaders all over the place but leaders often lead humanity into peril (looking at you politicians).
 
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