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Hello everyone! Is it weird that I'm scared to post on the ENTP forum? I'm always so intimidated by you guys.
Anyway, I'm writing a TV drama about some Los Angeles police detectives and I would love some help on a character. Here's some brief background.

Charlie De Luca was brought to the United States illegally from Italy when he was three years old and his older sister Angelica was six, to go and live with his grandmother in New York City. His parents were farmers and didn't have enough money to look after them anymore, so they were sent away for a "better life" essentially. His grandmother took Charlie and Angie to Los Angeles when they were ten and thirteen after almost being deported. He studied fine art at college, and married the woman he fell in love with while they were studying. After graduation they got married and had a son. Charlie had always been exceptionally smart but he wanted to be an architect, and while he was attempting to become one he had a job in a bar.

When he was at college, however, he was going through his rebellious phase. Whilst he was in love with his future wife, he had a series of short, hot, meaningless flings with other women and one of them didn't take being dumped too well. In fact, she ended up stalking him. One night, while he was working as a bartender, this stalker set fire to his house, killing his wife and his five year old son, as well as herself. The trauma afterwards changed him.

The first thing he did was quit his job at the bar and joined the army, which he was dishonourably discharged from a year later. So he trained to become a police officer and eventually, by sheer dumb luck I suppose, was promoted to detective. When he first meets the main character it's at a PTSD support group. The main character, April (an INFJ), was recovering from the trauma of being raped when her best friend died, which became an emotional scar on top of an emotional scar. After the group therapy session is over he introduces himself to her, and his curiosity gets the better of him. He wants to know why she's attending the sessions. She snaps at him. He makes some dumb remark about being late to his first day at his new job without realising that his new job is in the same detective unit April works at. She decides that she despises him as he antagonises her: always getting her to spill the beans on her own personal life but staying private about his own, deliberately arguing with her just for the hell of it and blaming his own mistakes on her to their lieutenant.

But then something changes within him and he begins to trust her. He explains the whole story about his stalker and wife and son and she opens up and tells him about her rape and grief. They begin to have a more trusting co-worker relationship, and soon they become friends.

Then April decides she's going to be a surrogate mother for her newly-married friends. They're a gay couple and so obviously can't have children by themselves, and it's because of this that Charlie begins to see April in a different light. She tries to get him to get proper help, for example seeing a real therapist, and he confesses to his therapist that he thinks he might be falling for her. He supports her, and when she has a miscarriage and finds out she can't have any more children he's the one person she can depend on. They end up having a slightly unhealthy, short-lived but cute (in my opinion, anyway) relationship.

Two seasons later, Charlie decides police work is not for him. Through getting help, he realises that his job as police officer was just him trying to help those who have been stalked so they'd never have to go through what he went through. He gets a job as an architect and quits his job as a detective. He remains friends with April for the rest of their lives, even when she marries her ex-boyfriend and adopts a child with him. Charlie also never dates again, and never gets re-married.

What do you think? Is he an ENTP? I was sure about it at first but now I'm not. He seems like maybe an INTP or a super super super unhealthy ENFP. I'm not sure if his personality is what he's born with or is a response to the trauma, like a mask for the way he's actually feeling. I'm not sure if he's a Fi or Fe user either. I'd love to hear someone else's opinion. Thank you for reading this far!
 

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It's actually hard to get a personality out of that. This sounds like a Fi-user trying to write a Ti-Fe.
I have no idea what this character is but my opinion on why he's not ENTP. He also is definitely not leading with Ti like an INTP. Here's my thoughts and also I want to provide a little research discrepancies of your story:

-Studying Fine Art. To be able to get your Architecture license, you have to have an Architecture degree (not Fine Arts-although some schools have you getting a Bachelors of Arts in Architecture) and take a bunch of tests which rely heavily on the classes you take in Architecture school. You have to have at least 4 years (some schools 5) of Architecture Studio classes which make it almost impossible to become an Architect without getting a degree in Architecture. Anyone currently at least 45 and under in Architecture ran into this in school. Also, while one of the few ENTPs I know IRL is an Architect, it is the creative ideas combined with math that got him into it. My husband is an Architect as is my best friend as are several other people I know (I met them all through my best friend who I met through a club in college). Architecture is pretty diverse and ranges from heavily engineering to all about design and art. Since I know several of them pretty well, they are ISFJ (my best friend), ISTJ (my husband), ENTP, INFP, ESTP, and INFJ. My husband really likes Architecture for the math and engineering. The ENTP likes the creativity, problem solving, and math. My best friend and the INFJ were into art and design but hate the math part. The ESFP likes the management and works for a city as a reviewer of plans where he can interact with people. The INFP never really was in to Architecture (also hated the math) and jumps around to money making scheme to scheme and relies on this ISFJ wife to keep the steady job. Anyway, an ENTP in Architecture would probably not be in it for Fine Arts but the math and physics part of it.

-One thing that is very clear in the ENTPs I know, we probably would not have married someone right out of school even if we knocked someone up or were madly in love with them. The sense of obligation or traditional is not as strong with us. Also, even being rebellious, we would not cheat if we we got into a serious relationship. The key would be that we would not get serious with someone if we still wanted to just have fun around. He might have lightly dated his future wife while dating other women, but once he committed, he would commit. I'm trying to understand the timeline. If I spent the first few years of school dating around and then in my last year or two met someone serious, I would not jump on marrying them right out of school. What would the hurry be? Would I be afraid someone would snatch up my girlfriend at age 22 if I didn't marry her right away? How long ago did he date his stalker? Your timeline has it being 3-4 years if he dated his wife for several years and had a son, that's a long time to stalk. Also, if he dreamed of being an Architect, he most likely would have gone gang busters to get a job in it. If he graduated, got married, and had a kid, that has him 1-2 years out of school and still working as a bar tender. If an ENTP was "eh" about the degree they got, they might work other jobs like bar tending trying to figure out what to do, but if he actually was really into it, he would have the drive to be working in it a lot quicker. He could work in Architecture out of school, get bored and quit, and end up working as a bartender (a much more realistic ENTP situation but maybe later on revisit Architecture). Personally, if you are going the former lover route, I would have him playing around when he accidentally knocks up a woman who he ends up falling in love with and raising their child together (unmarried) but one of the other women he was playing around with when he got his now girlfriend pregnant is a stalker (so it is not years but a year) or I would say he is several years out of school and married with a kid and I would take out that the killer is a former lover but a woman who hangs out at the bar he works at who he lightly flirts with (for fun-very ENTP-and for tips) and she gets obsessive over him and kills his wife and kid.

-He would probably not be in a self-help group for PTSD. If an ENTP would actual seek help for themselves, I am guessing we would go the therapist route, not a self-help group. We tend to analyze our feelings internally (using Ti actually, not our Fe-feeling function). If we actually recognized we had PTSD, we would either seek professional help one on one so we could process our own feelings or ignore our feelings all together and go out drinking and socializing or pouring into a project to cover the pain (there's where our Fe comes into play). ENTP depression typically is not sitting around moping in our apartment obsessing over ourselves. We are great pretenders. A good example in pop culture of an ENTP's reaction to stress/pain is Iron Man/Tony Stark. To deal with the stress of being kidnapped, he obsessively builds his Iron Man suit. To deal with the vision he had from Scarlet Witch, he decides to build Ultron. He doesn't deal with his issues, he covers them with projects and quips.

Anyway, my 2 cents.
 

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ENTP, typically will not allow their past to take away from their
future. Maybe that is worded wrong.

ENTP ..use bad things in life as learning items and will typically see them as such.

Where a lot of what I read I can see some ENTP clear traits.
I also see a lot of his life being dictated by past items to a degree that
is not really what I would see in typical ENTP.

For example. I can definitely see an ENTP becoming against relationships that
are long and committed but what I cant see is ENTP just not dating or caring
at all about having a sexual or romantic/caring or loving relationship.

I dont think an ENTP would look at this here: You say he became a cop/detective
from this drive to be sure bad things do not happen to other people. Great.
But it is preceded by his feelings to drive that because it happened to him.
AND he recognizes that (the feelings and what the feelings are telling him).
That combo seems not very likely. Also, typically well seasoned social ENTP would have a
hard time seeing the black and white that is law telling them what they need to judge
against others. Especially a slippery slope kinda relative thing like stalking.

In short. No I do not think it is enough to claim ENTP yet
it could be simply since there is not a lot to go on.

I am having a really hard time with the fact that an ENTP would allow
their past to straight dictate their happiness and career choices.
That is just not how we work typically. That is like a hard judgment
with final solutions. We do not handle that well.

On a side note... I am not well versed in MBTI and cannot speak about
any type with real validity less ENTP and ESFJ. To my mind ENTP are the most varied
of the types so knowing a lot about ENTP would require knowing a lot about all MBTI
types. As I mention that is not me.

So yeah .. just my uneducated thoughts on this.
 

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@Geonerd nice post.

That last paragraph there.
Yeah..even by research ENTP are the least likely to even fall into items like depression
and whatnot. I seriously doubt that he would have signed up for all these help
items.

That said. He lost his child and wife. That can break even the most resolute of people.

Rereading her post after yours and mine.
The guy seems like he is driven by his feels. Maybe intuitive feels for sure
but feels none the less. Actually no...no... I dont think it is intuitive feels
if they were he would have at least got some stuff right. He basically led
his life by feels and almost everything he tried failed.

hmmm

ISFJ!!
 

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@FueledByEvil that definitely is what is getting me. The fact he is so dictated by his past. I don't know a single ENTP who's past so heavily dictates his present or future. That is a very "J" thing. If we have PTSD situations in our past, the issues going forward would be pretty masked or used as a learning tool in our future. ENTPs are really never ones to dwell on the past. We always think our future is brighter than even our present. Also, it is extremely unrealistic that an ENTP would swear off even dating or sex. We might be camera shy about a relationship if we were burned before (I actually don't think this is even likely) but to swear off dating or sex seems really unlikely, even if we were really screwed up. We are extroverts in the end. We need human interaction to process life. Maybe an INFP can live like a hermit but it is unlikely an ENTP will last long like that.
 

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Building on what's been said already,

I would say the ENTP marriage could possibly work if the ENTP knocks the girl up and has strong sense of obligation to his future child. And the architecture obsession would probably be going to school for architecture and getting into a firm.

Here's how I would write it:

ENTP fools around with a few girls during architecture school
Knocks up girl 1 and mystery girl 2 around senior year
Marries because sense of obligation outweighs sense for freedom
Starts off well in architecture
Mystery girl gets all stalky and confronts ENTP, stresses him out, he ultimately rejects her and tries to ignore her to escape her reality
Mystery girl gets all crazy trying to contact him, and burns down the family/herself
ENTP spirals out of control with fleeing from his reality of guilt/loss by focusing on projects and drowning in alcohol/drugs
ENTP loses job and works as a bartender to make ends meet and get an alcohol fix
Uses alcohol for fulfilling escapism tendencies

As for military, it could be done, once again, escapism tendencies: He no longer wants to live his own life. Could get sober during that year.
Being a cop: backup job choice, seems similar to military.
Making detective: a logical choice for an ENTP in law enforcement, could obsess over cases and solving them
Focusing on Stalking cases: Chooses cases based on personal vendetta against stalkers, when they show up
Motivation: When a stalking case arrives, hunting them down and punishing them without remorse. Interviews are particularly intense and pressurizing when speaking to suspected stalkers, and he obsessively digs for evidence/motivation to move towards prosecution.

Got carried away, but that's how I would write his character.
 

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To add on, the escapism tendencies and fleeing from negative emotions would lead to someone who is unclear of his personal motivations. But perhaps getting alot of satisfaction from closing stalking cases could lead to a realization of his internal drive over time.
 

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And also, just knit picking here:

blaming his own mistakes on her to their lieutenant
If I have an issue with someone and I want to defeat them, I do it within my rule book. I don't blame my mistakes on others, I own up to them.

But that just may be a personal preference and may not reflect all ENTPs.
 

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And also, just knit picking here:



If I have an issue with someone and I want to defeat them, I do it within my rule book. I don't blame my mistakes on others, I own up to them.

But that just may be a personal preference and may not reflect all ENTPs.
I am with you. My choices and outcomes of fall squarely on my shoulders and I
will readily accept that. Good and bad. I may and quite often do have a hard time
sorting out why I have made a choice but thats about the stress of it.


Side note... We are also not big fans of trying to gain ground by using comparatives to
others/others methods. Kinda like "Well they did it so I thought it was okay".
We tend to skew everything to our way.
 

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I'm gonna stop you right there: no ENTP would ever major in fine art. Maybe a minor, but not a major.
 
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@Geonerd nice post.

That last paragraph there.
Yeah..even by research ENTP are the least likely to even fall into items like depression
and whatnot. I seriously doubt that he would have signed up for all these help
items.

That said. He lost his child and wife. That can break even the most resolute of people.
As an ENTP who has suffered through depression I can definitely say that we aren't the least likely to have to deal with it; that honor would probably go to ENTJs
 

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As an ENTP who has suffered through depression I can definitely say that we aren't the least likely to have to deal with it; that honor would probably go to ENTJs

Everyone suffers depression. No one is excluded. When and how
often and what the triggers may be are least likely for ENTP(J).
So ENT.

I have done very loose research and nothing correlates.
A lot of people say EST is least likely. From what I have seen
from people and discussions with known tested types my thinking is
bringing the whole down to ENT I still say P but that is biased based
on my experience with ENTP being far greater then ENTJ.
I also find that ENTP will more readily except that they can
be and do get depressed. ENTJ...yeah not so much.


For example..If I search for ENTP being the least depressed type.
I get agreeance. Same for EST types. Yet when I search for a
whole study. Everyone is on the fence or one study finds different
results.

So the real questioning of my post should come under the guise of
"even by research" being the misleading point and/or I should have clarified
it was my personal research. Work for you?
 

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Yup. Now lets avoid more ENTP tangents, shall we.
 

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He studied fine art at college, and married the woman he fell in love with while they were studying. After graduation they got married and had a son. Charlie had always been exceptionally smart but he wanted to be an architect, and while he was attempting to become one he had a job in a bar.

When he was at college, however, he was going through his rebellious phase. Whilst he was in love with his future wife, he had a series of short, hot, meaningless flings with other women and one of them didn't take being dumped too well. In fact, she ended up stalking him. One night, while he was working as a bartender, this stalker set fire to his house, killing his wife and his five year old son, as well as herself. The trauma afterwards changed him.
I'm confused by your chronology here. So Charlie went to school for fine art. He dated a bunch of girls in college . One of them he only dating briefly and after breaking up w/ held a grudge against him and another he went on to marry and had a kid with after college. Then randomly the girl he briefly dated in college burned his house, killing his wife and kid. So if this girl dated him ~ middle college it's ~2 yrs before they graduate. And he prob didn't get married until at least 1 yr after graduating ( prob much longer if his income is from bar tending and he has college loans), and it prob wasn't another yr before they had a kid, and then the kid grew to 5 yrs before being killed.. so you're saying someone who felt bad about being dumped after briefly dating ~month... suddenly 9+ yrs later randomly committed arson and murder as revenge for being dumped? I suppose the kid could have been unplanned and she could have gotten pregnant in college, but at the minimal you're still talking about ~6yrs. That doesn't seem plausible ... so much so, that I was confused by what you were saying and not sure I understood.


I think you need to work on your plot before you worry about character development. Or just make the background more vague.
 

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The first thing he did was quit his job at the bar and joined the army, which he was dishonourably discharged from a year later. So he trained to become a police officer and eventually, by sheer dumb luck I suppose, was promoted to detective.
what? the army wants anyone they can get, whereas becoming a police officer is difficult process in which you have to go to an academy take classes, past tests both mental and physical and lots of people don't make it through. If he was dishonorably discharged from the army, he would have had to do so fucked up shit like deserted people or such and he not be able to get a job as a police officer if that were the case. ....at least that's what I would expect.

by sheer dumb luck I suppose, was promoted to detective.
..that doesn't happen.

And what is point of even putting any of this in the story?

your plot is making my head hurt.
 

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what? the army wants anyone they can get, whereas becoming a police officer is difficult process in which you have to go to an academy take classes, past tests both mental and physical and lots of people don't make it through. If he was dishonorably discharged from the army, he would have had to do so fucked up shit like deserted people or such and he not be able to get a job as a police officer if that were the case. ....at least that's what I would expect.


..that doesn't happen.

And what is point of even putting any of this in the story?

your plot is making my head hurt.
hehehe o Desire...I wanted to do this. Yes the story is essentially swiss cheese.

But outside of the plot ...even given the large amount we do not know or what
may be snow ball chance in hell odds of shit happening...
do you think this guy could be ENTP?
 

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hehehe o Desire...I wanted to do this. Yes the story is essentially swiss cheese.

But outside of the plot ...even given the large amount we do not know or what
may be snow ball chance in hell odds of shit happening...
do you think this guy could be ENTP?

I didn't see anything that really gave any personality type.

except this bit seemed to be intended to describe his type, but I don't feel it marks him as entp:

" He makes some dumb remark about being late to his first day at his new job without realising that his new job is in the same detective unit April works at. She decides that she despises him as he antagonises her: always getting her to spill the beans on her own personal life but staying private about his own, deliberately arguing with her just for the hell of it and blaming his own mistakes on her to their lieutenant."

any type could be late and joke about it, tho perhaps it is more a P type thing.


"always getting her to spill the beans on her own personal life but staying private about his own" ... I think prying into someone else's life is prob E in general. being private about one's own I think is prob more environment/psychology than mbti, though if anything prob more an Introvert thing.


"deliberately arguing with her just for the hell of it" I think entps like to debate ideas to explore ideas and be playful.. labeling a debate as argument and viewing entps as enjoying arguing is prob more an impression of entps from non-entps esp I--J types and not how many of us would prob describe ourselves.

"blaming his own mistakes on her to their lieutenant." that sounds like he's a piece of shit. I wouldn't want to be associated w/ acting like that. I can be an asshole. But I don't think I ever do it by blaming others and not admitting to mistakes. I do it by doing stuff like pointing out plot holes in others fiction w/o regard for their feelings, I realize I might come off as an asshole to some, but some people (myself included) crave and enjoy constructive criticism that's given honestly/objectively, also if I filter that then I'm not really able to be myself, and there's not much potential for us to be close friends. So occasionally I'll risk coming off rude, crude, insensitive.. because I enjoy and am natural being rude, crude and insensitive and enjoy when others are too... but once I learn about people's sensitivities I'll usually back off and avoid triggering them.
 

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@desire machine I find it interesting how we are viewed by other types as assholes or arguing just to argue. That is why I usually don't like the descriptions of ENTPs. You can tell when the description was written by someone who does not comprehend Ne-Ti. They slap the label as "argumentative" on us when I have had other types be more actually argumentative than me. We just argue differently or have our over inquisitive, probing into why the other person believes what they do taken as us starting an argument. I have had some excruciating arguments with SJs and xNTJs that I had not even remotely started. They are persistent and only fight to get you to 100% agree with them so they do not even attempt to understand your point. Also, take into account this is an INFP's perspective of ENTPs. In my experience with INFPs, they are very adverse to fighting/arguing and easily have their feeling hurt so something we don't even think of as an argument get viewed as one by them.
 
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