Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,624 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
As much as I adored the kindness of princesses in fables (I was most attracted to Belle from beauty and the beast because it strikes the heart of Fi really; loving something for what they are inside). But even as a child I always wondered why the princess was the one being rescued or saved. I don't wish to for this to be a feminist criticism by the way.
For me; I never wanted a white knight or a saviour (which I always found weird and unnatural for some reason). I didn't want to be like the pretty, sweet, vulnerable character that all the men suddenly desired above all others, found in these stories. I wanted to be the knight... I wanted to be the Joan of Arc character. Not attractive to many at all, but instead respected by only a few. Rough around the edges, a little crash, but with sincerity and honesty. Probably entirely narcissistic because I am essentially none of all those things apart from being rough around the edges and have a biting tongue sometimes :proud:

Growing up I always found it hard to find female role models I actually looked up to (not that it meant a huge deal to have "role models"), because largely the "strong", independent women with integrity take the back seat in discourse about women. I don't want to be something hot, successful and desirable. Integrity is much more important to me than these things... not because I want to be 'different', but because that is what has always been important to me. Perhaps it's just fiction/the media that's skewed in this way (though it's not completely one sided).

Can any infp females relate?
 

·
Cafe Legend and MOTM Jan 2011
Joined
·
15,420 Posts
I liked the idea of the princess from "The Princess and the Pea," whose vulnerability made her special instead of making her an irritating, picky nuisance. Yes, I wanted to be a princess, but only if it meant finally having my sensitivity respected and nurtured.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,253 Posts
I certainly can relate to all aspects of protecting or saving someone who made me feel like risking it all for them or a cause was my purpose. I've longed to look into the eyes of the gray and blind and make them see again through the means of love or inspiration. It's something I struggle with too, not this exact idea of being a savior, but I constantly struggle with being protective over people emotionally. And I take on the burdens of others, and I would again and again, but I would love deep down for one this heavy weight to have some light at the end of the tunnel- to make one feel they can carry their own burden easily. I've always wanted to drag the feeling or life out of someone. The idea of being like Belle and seeing through the monster, the Beast was, floods my mind with the desire to make it a real life translation.


I've always projected wanting to help and save the wounded souls around me as opposed to being saved myself. I am more likely to admire one than to want to be admired.
 
Joined
·
4,757 Posts
I related to neither the role of the protector nor the protectee. As a child, I was extremely anxious and scared of the world and I expected my parents to protect me. I could never relate that experience or any experience really to the romantic notions of rescue shown in fairy tales.

As I've gotten older, I understand both urges and have been in both roles, but I still can't see how it applies to my life.

I guess I've admired independence more than anything else.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,035 Posts
Not attractive to many at all, but instead respected by only a few. Rough around the edges, a little crash, but with sincerity and honesty. Probably entirely narcissistic because I am essentially none of all those things apart from being rough around the edges and have a biting tongue sometimes :proud:
Honesty is a choice. It's not a genetic trait, you can be honest if you really want. :3
 
  • Like
Reactions: susurration

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,035 Posts
Well unlike the others, honesty is like standing on the edge and taking the step even though you're afraid. It takes sooo much energy to lie or conceal, and it may take guts to be honest, but guts can be faked by simply blurting out the truth without thinking. And not thinking is easy! 8D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
915 Posts
This is the beginning of a beautiful conversation. :) I relate to what you said. Im totally chiming in!

Belle was and has always been my favorite. What strikes me is they really got to know each other first. It wasnt like little slut Cinderella and one date she was in the sack. lol jk. Belle and the Beast were progressive, it was based on books, dancing, intelligence talking, overall bonding, and getting to the heart the matter, without pushing it.

I do love romanticism... I have been known to go a little crazy over the opposite sex. Its just that the older I get the more it just doesnt matter.

I like the idea of friendship much more than the idea of romanticism. I am probably not going to get married. I am probably not going to be a mother. Oddly, enough what leads me here is embarking on the world of e commerce.

I just get so much more satisfaction from brains instead of brawns. Furthermore, I am not going to let some guy steal my passion. Im not going to invest in scrubbing toilets, ironing some guys shirt, and making peanut butter and jelly sandwhiches for kids every day like clockwork." Dinner at 6", just so isnt me. The whole clockwork and self sacrifice of a woman....So, much is expected of her from others. So little is expected from her to herself.

I still find it odd that women get "given away" by thier dad on thier wedding day. No thanks... I own myself!!!!!! lol

Instead of a dress I want a sweatshirt. Instead of heals some boots. Instead of a guy, me.

Men and thier constant cop outs and sentimental amnesia...no thanks...
Believe it or not Im in a relationship but Im no submissive piece of cake! Im a complicated, head to head equal! :)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,624 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Well unlike the others, honesty is like standing on the edge and taking the step even though you're afraid. It takes sooo much energy to lie or conceal, and it may take guts to be honest, but guts can be faked by simply blurting out the truth without thinking. And not thinking is easy! 8D
I see what you're saying now. I didn't ordinarily see it that way, but it's a good point. I think integrity is much like that too. Though I suppose they both come hand in hand.

Thinking is a bother. Wish I didn't have to do it so much :proud:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,252 Posts
I haven't seen the Belle movie. I am The Queen, not the Princess. I am my own Knight, I usually end up crusading on my own & very rarely wait for someone else to save me. The Knight & Crusading joan of arc are very important archetypes to my inner stuff. I love The code that knights have, the unspoken code of honor & actually I am very interested in the knights templar.

I enjoy a nice male knight by my side during my Quests.
 

·
Cafe Legend and MOTM Jan 2011
Joined
·
15,420 Posts
Oooh, here's a cool princess:
YouTube - Hans My Hedgehog (1/3) - Jim Henson's The Storyteller
YouTube - Hans My Hedgehog (2/3) - Jim Henson's The Storyteller
YouTube - Hans My Hedgehog (3/3) - Jim Henson's The Storyteller

She made a mistake, but she was willing to go to extreme lengths to make it right again. In the end, her devotion broke the enchantment, although the one thing I dislike about this particular genre of fairy tales is that the beastly creature usually changes into a handsome prince in the end, so that the princess gets rewarded for being non-superficial with a prize that only a superficial person would appreciate. Shrek got this part right, by allowing the ogre princess to remain an ogre, and to be loved in that form. Too bad some of the characters were kind of irritating.


Beauty and the Beast
by Jaimes Alsop


1. The Beast


Knowing how you loved the birds

I fixed them to the trees

so they wouldn't fly away.

So you would stay.


And you remained silent

and never questioned my bloody palms

or reproached me the birds

because they didn't sing.
It couldn't last, of course.

No new birds came and those crucified

were taken by small animals or simply

disappeared from the nails.

I was sure then that you would leave me.


Finally I confessed.

Trembling, I brought you the hammer

and showed my broken fingers.

Leaves and branches in my hair,

the diagrams of Autumn

on the sky.


And you smiled and said it didn't matter

about the birds

and drank at my tears

like a rare and fragile wine

that they too would not be wasted.






2. Beauty


I came to you so carelessly

there were those who thought I had not been warned.

I could only point to the false lovers who carried marks

where you had pressed coins into their palms

and admit I was impatient for your scars.


The rumours followed us as easily

as if you murdered me every night;

hemlock in my evening wine,

a loosened bannister on the stair.

The dull villagers and daft princes

waited still and at distances

for grave news and relentless

until I could only point again

at their jealous eyes and whisper

I had discovered why you handled me

as though I were made of glass.


I know they want to know about our bodies.

Our virginity confuses them

and they are reduced to words and silences.

What shall we allow them to believe?


We are a thousand years old, no histories

and nothing to confess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
717 Posts
I really loved those poems. Thank you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: susurration

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,140 Posts
I pretty much hated the princesses. I resented them because I felt like this is what people expected of me and well, I just wasn't like that. I never wanted to be helpless, docile, fragile, stuck. Like Rapunzel in the tower. What a boring life! I think I'm the same as you, I was much more interested in being the gallant hero on the horse, who never gave up and fought a good fight. Any time I played with my little playmates as a kid, I always wanted to be the guy. ALWAYS.

But I did find Snow White appealing - mainly just her friendship with the animals and all the "little people" of the forest. She just hung out with the birds and did her thing. She took care of the house for the 7 dwarfs, yes, but they were so cool and entertaining, I assumed she didn't mind doing the work. Plus, she had the animals to help her!

And I agree with the person who liked the Princess and the Pea. I remember wishing I was as special as she was, being able to tell when a pea was under her pile of mattresses. I wondered what strange trait I might have that no one else did.

My other favorite was Robin Hood. I know it sounds weird, but that Disney movie with Robin Hood as a fox was probably my first crush. I thought Robin Hood was really handsome and ideal. I envied Maid Marian because he was in love with her. They went around helping the poor people and tricking all the greedy idiots out of their money. I thought that was an incredibly romantic adventure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
244 Posts
I can relate to the OP. I've never been comfortable letting other people take care of me. I'd much rather fend for myself and be the one protecting other people. It's always been important to me to maintain my independence and my main focus is life is to find a purpose, not to be "rescued" and given security. The princess always seems to be a lost soul desperately trying to escape a bad situation and cannot do so on her own, someone who would be happy just knowing she's safe and loved. But where is the purpose and sense of achievement in basing all of your value as a person on what someone else provides for you? It sounds much more fulfilling to be the knight who actually goes out and achieves something worthwhile and who knowing his own worth can love himself. (Personally I never understood why vulnerable damsel in distress types - like Cinderella, Rapunzel, etc. - were supposed to be so attractive. Why would a woman who constantly needs to be saved be so appealing? Do the heroes pity them? Wouldn't women with strength who could fight alongside them be more appealing? What's the deal?)

And BTW there's been quite a few mentions of Belle, who is a great character with an independent mind, but she does end up a damsel in distress by the end of the movie. Same thing goes for another one of my favorite princesses, Jasmine. But what about Mulan? Is she more the idea we all have in mind here - a woman who decides she does not fit the traditional image of femininity and instead takes on the role of a warrior to protect her people?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,624 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I can relate to the OP. I've never been comfortable letting other people take care of me. I'd much rather fend for myself and be the one protecting other people. It's always been important to me to maintain my independence and my main focus is life is to find a purpose, not to be "rescued" and given security. The princess always seems to be a lost soul desperately trying to escape a bad situation and cannot do so on her own, someone who would be happy just knowing she's safe and loved. But where is the purpose and sense of achievement in basing all of your value as a person on what someone else provides for you? It sounds much more fulfilling to be the knight who actually goes out and achieves something worthwhile and who knowing his own worth can love himself. (Personally I never understood why vulnerable damsel in distress types - like Cinderella, Rapunzel, etc. - were supposed to be so attractive. Why would a woman who constantly needs to be saved be so appealing? Do the heroes pity them? Wouldn't women with strength who could fight alongside them be more appealing? What's the deal?)

And BTW there's been quite a few mentions of Belle, who is a great character with an independent mind, but she does end up a damsel in distress by the end of the movie. Same thing goes for another one of my favorite princesses, Jasmine. But what about Mulan? Is she more the idea we all have in mind here - a woman who decides she does not fit the traditional image of femininity and instead takes on the role of a warrior to protect her people?
I liked Mulan as a kid too. I have the distinct image in my mind of the part where she cut her hair and transformed. I usually have mid length to long hair, but usually I go through a phase where I cut my hair shorter in the middle of the night for no reason other than I feel like it. It's something of watershed compelled by an inner transformation. I relate to that spirit.

But what you said Katerp, reminds me of something. I think what's important about a "warrior" to me, is that they are 2 dimensional. Not just strong or capable, but also vulnerable too. Courageous enough to be emotionally vulnerable and sensitive and reveal it. My father used to watch Xena the tv series when I was younger (now I realise why :p) and while she was kick ass... I always wondered why characters would only show their "sensitive" side when it came to romance or extreme stress. I wanted to see a character who dared to wear that sensitivity on their sleeve while holding the courage of their convictions. Make some bad decisions, stuff up a little, and still pull through. Damn, maybe I'm too self absorbed and wanted to see more Fi :unsure:

I think these disney princesses speak to the part of us that wants to be special and be seen as being special by someone for who we are and not what we do. What infp wouldn't want to be loved and valued straight off the bat for being kindhearted? :proud: I just wish these stories about a hero saving a lady were less about limerence and more about genuine respect... which I suppose is probably a Fi concern again.
 

·
MOTM Dec 2011
Joined
·
8,651 Posts
I can relate to this in some way - although I tend to balk at the "princess" idea in the "daddy's little princess" context, where some man takes care of your every need just because you are female & have some sense of entitlement due to being spoiled as a little girl. BARF.

I think it's similar in the sense that I like to see myself as capable of achieving things for myself.

I also don't like how most female characters exist only in relation to male characters The bechdel test is an interesting concept.....it really highlights the limited ways female characters are written.

I've also always disliked the "tough woman" archetype in pop culture also - she's supposed to be the antithesis of the "damsel in distress", but most of her power is "physical", her intelligence is stated rather than shown (she has a PhD in blah blah blah), she is still portrayed as very "sexy", & in the end, she winds up with some guy to complete her (male fantasy, anyone?). She's extremely one-dimensional & too perfect to be relatable. I think this article hits the nail on the head when it comes to my dislike of these "tough women".

I admit I've had fantasies of "being saved", but not in a fairy tale way. It was more like: you meet someone who forever alters your life for the better in an "inspirational" way. It's an idea you see in pop culture & art as much as the classic fairytale, but it's often shown for both genders. However, I have realized that the only person who can "save" me is ME, as cliche as that realization sounds....

On a related note, I've also found the idea of being "sexy" sooooo boring. There are so many things I'd rather be than sexy, hot, desirable, etc. It seems almost any woman can don a tight, low cut dress & be "sexy" - what about something challenging?! I've always admired women who are quirky and challenging in the image they presented. They aren't void of sexuality either, but they're interesting from an imaginative, cerebral perspective much more than simply eliciting a carnal response.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
915 Posts
Speaking of which has anybody heard of the "Cinderella Complex". I think it relates to this thread.
Cinderella complex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Basically, from being exposed to so many unrealistic love stories. A girl will feel victimized and helpless in her situation and will want to be rescued in a sense. You know how everyone is like waiting for my, " knight in shining armor." Anyways, its a fear of independence and feeling the need to be taken care of.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top