[littlebirdx]

(WARNING: this is long and slightly rambly. I express my feelings. If you're willing, please bear with me and (hopefully) respond.)

20 y/o INFP here. I've been pretty discouraged lately. Hoping the sage wisdom of some of you who have navigated out of the fiery hell called young adulthood might be able to help.

STORY TIME. l've always struggled in school. I absolutely love learning and an academic environment, but I have quite severe ADD. To put it bluntly, most of the time I can hardly function without medication. I've been this way since I was a kid. Even with medication, I still had typical INFP struggles in school; most subjects simply could not keep me entertained enough to finish the work, and any work that I did had to be near perfect upon first execution or I wouldn't complete the task. (Or I might, and feel like a failure.) and where I would do much better learning large amounts of one or two subjects at a time, I'd have to be taking 8 or 9 classes at once, try to keep them all straight, and still care enough to not be overwhelmed and get my work done.

I graduated high school by the skin of my teeth, with a 2.3 GPA. I got admitted to an online program at a rigorous, private Christian college. I then discovered that online schooling is terrible for me. I failed out after one semester, devastated, with a 0.5 GPA. (Yes, that's correct.) I then decided to take some time off from school to work and pursue other avenues of interest.

Last fall-spring, I completed a basic missions training course and outreach through a missions organization. I fell in love with the atmosphere and the kind of work that we were doing. I fell so hard that, for the first time in my life, I not only cried, but I wept, when I had to say goodbye (outreach). Needless to say, I am sure that it's the kind of work I was made for.

Here's the catch: I can't expect others to take me seriously in my line of work if I don't get some kind of formal education, preferably something useful, such as education, psychology/counseling, community development, or medicine. And I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to get into a college, much less pay for one.

I'm taking the next year off from school to work and get more leadership experience in kid's ministry, and I'm afraid I'll just get stuck at home and never accomplish my goals/dreams.


So, INFPs:
- Did you struggle with formal education? How did you overcome those struggles? Advice?
- Do I even have a shot at getting into any tech school or university if I CLEP test out of some gen-ed courses?
- How do I get people to take me seriously if I choose a "non-traditional" route and get more training & experience through a missions org?
- Are things ever really as hopeless as they seem in your twenties?
- Best way to prevent hopeless ideas from becoming self-fulfilling prophecies?

Thanks for reading. XP

 

[refugee]

Hi there,

1. Did you struggle with formal education? How did you overcome those struggles? Advice?
Yes, I struggled a lot. I also have a very spacey outlook on life, so it's rough being in any kind of structured environment. I can't say I overcame those struggles because that part of my personality is always gonna be with me, but I did learn to adapt. Being flexible enough to accommodate others is a skill that will serve you well in the long run, no matter where you are.

2. Do I even have a shot at getting into any tech school or university if I CLEP test out of some gen-ed courses?
Not sure about this since I've never taken CLEP. I assume you could get into a college somewhere.

3. How do I get people to take me seriously if I choose a "non-traditional" route and get more training & experience through a missions org?
This would depend on what your definition of "people" is. If you mean the average private/public sector employer, then it will be more difficult for them to "take you seriously." But like I said, it depends on who you're trying to impress.

4. Are things ever really as hopeless as they seem in your twenties?
There's a really good thread here for that kind of advice:
http://personalitycafe.com/infp-forum-idealists/84202-30-infps-your-advice-younger-infps.html

5. Best way to prevent hopeless ideas from becoming self-fulfilling prophecies?
Tell yourself the truth and don't believe the lies.

 

[Miisha]

Oh goodness, sounds like you've been through a lot. I have family members who also have ADD so I can sympathize to an extent, it can be terribly difficult. Kudos for sticking through it though - the path forward isn't always in a straight line! I think it's pretty darn awesome that you have a goal you want to work towards, and I do mean that sincerely.


- Did you struggle with formal education? How did you overcome those struggles? Advice?
At first, yes, especially so early on - I think this was more cultural for me though, since I grew up in Japan and conformity's a pretty big thing there. I loved to think and I was often asking 'why not?' which would often get me into trouble. Like refugee above, I learned to adapt. In any personality type, we all have our weaknesses, and without working on those, as harsh as it is, we get left behind. The world isn't patient enough for hand-holding, and our parents who have done that in earlier years will only be around for so long. But you're still young - heck, no need to rush. It's true some options are only available to you in our youthful years, but I think it's nothing to worry about if you're committed enough to achieve a goal. You will get there with hard work if you want it enough.

- Do I even have a shot at getting into any tech school or university if I CLEP test out of some gen-ed courses?
That is entirely up to you. Not exactly sure what 'level' gen-ed is, but if you're talking about the standard core classes, I think it's worth taking them - especially if you're not confident with the subject. It's true some of it is repetitive from high school classes, but is sure as heck will help you out in re-establishing the foundations - and most of all to make some friends! I would highly recommend attending campus physically if that option is available to you. Seriously, friends do wonders to the entire educational experience. I absolutely abhor math but it's kind of a big part of my biology/forensics major, unfortunately. I met some people from the engineering dept. who were crazy good with numbers and helped me along. You might feel like you're alone, but there's so many awesome people around. My brother was always worried he'd annoy/vex/be looked down upon/etc. just because of his ADD and/or lower grades because of it - It's true some people are gonna be jackasses - fact of life. But there's also a plethora of fantastic people out there. And I completely understand where his reservations come from - school system isn't kind to those who can't achieve a certain objective GPA, which I have many words I could use to describe, none of them nice. My bro is intelligent, you are intelligent, and you two both know a helluva lot more hardship than the average Jane or Joe from your experiences, and I feel that is valuable insight.My bro's having a blast at school after he broke out his spiral of worry, even if it's only a little bit at a time. I understand money doesn't grow on trees - I've had to work a couple years before I could even make the initial payment for my university, but I got in in the end. More than anything, I really, really hope you meet people that can make you feel at ease and help you along with your life obstacles, and you with theirs. You can do it!

- How do I get people to take me seriously if I choose a "non-traditional" route and get more training & experience through a missions org?
Oh boy, let me just tell you - there's always, always going to be people who look down on you for not going the 'traditional route', at least in our generation. What really matters is this though; What do you want to do? If getting others' respect is high on the list, then there's really no choice but to subject yourself to their standard and go through whatever they deem is 'respect worthy.'


- Are things ever really as hopeless as they seem in your twenties?
Well I'm still in my twenties so uh, not sure what to say here. XD I completely understand the hopelessness though - I woke up a year or so ago wondering "what have I been doing with my life." lol. Persevere! Fake it 'till you make it! I tell myself things will get better, and that positive outlook seems to do wonders. You can do it. You can do it. (But of course you don't have to be positive all of the time. Let it out sometimes. Cry on your cat. Cry on your dog. Cry on a potato, I dunno. I think an amount of doubt is healthy and keeps you on your toes!)

- Best way to prevent hopeless ideas from becoming self-fulfilling prophecies?
I know I've spouted quite a few idealistic ideas out here. Some things are very, very difficult to achieve, and that's something I keep in mind at all times as a sort of reality check. But, really, what if you don't make it? Then what? What are you going to do? My answer would be 'not much, so I guess I'll keep trying.' Not really the most inspiring of mottos, but hey. Do what you think is right at the time.

Oh gosh I'm so sorry I rambled a lot, and I'm terribly sorry if I sounded patronizing. ;_; I have several younger siblings and they struggle through the same thing (I do too for that matter) so it's just...out of habit.I am also so sorry if I completely misunderstood some if not all of your questions and went off on a tangent. |D I know you don't know me but I just really want you to be happy! Let me know if I can clarify anything, I'd be more than willing to do so. Best of luck man!

 

[sarek]

@littlebirdx, I have been in exactly that same place with the difference that I never knew I had ADD and so was definitely not medicated. It can be done but it is hard work.

What you need to do is to organise your environment in such a way that it is a simple as possible for you. Cut out as many distractions and as much clutter as you can. If the home environment is too noisy, go sit in a library for studies. Do whatever it takes to reduce your expenditure of "spoons" (ie mental energy) throughout the day.

Get your alone time to recharge. Insist on it.

Meditate. For God's sake everyone, please learn to meditate. Its also good if you read Eckhart Tolle.

Get good sleep. This is essential. Especially going to bed early is critical here.

Get exercise. This dramatically clears up your brain fog. Intense exercise works much better than endurance here.

Watch your diet. Go easy on the sugars, the carbs and the wheat. Banish coke from your life forever.

Its ok to switch over what you are doing a lot. If you study in short bursts, thats ok, but in that case you really have to be 100% on the ball during such bursts.

You also have to get with whatever school you want to attend and see if they have accommodations for you. If you have an official dx for your ADD, that should be possible.

One thing I did was to apply for as many oral exams instead of written tests as I could. Quite a few of these were granted to me and I passed much more easily.

Get a tutor. I got me some really heavy duty tutoring which was instrumental in helping me through.

And, be kind to yourself! This is absolutely essential! Do not under no circumstances at all beat yourself up over anything. That is only counter-productive. Regret is hoping that the past will change, its like saying "if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle"

 

[littlebirdx]

Thanks, all! You're immensely helpful and quite lovely.

3. How do I get people to take me seriously if I choose a "non-traditional" route and get more training & experience through a missions org?
This would depend on what your definition of "people" is. If you mean the average private/public sector employer, then it will be more difficult for them to "take you seriously." But like I said, it depends on who you're trying to impress.

I want to work for a non-profit org, working with women and children at risk, specifically in the rescue and restoration of human trafficking victims. Herein lies the problem: most reputable orgs that do effective, lasting work in this area require a minimum of a master's degree in psychiatry or a similarly related/helpful field and years of experience working with victims of sexual exploitation before they'll even let you come near a victim. (And rightfully so - I see the reasoning behind it and, for the most part, agree completely.)

So the question really is: If I take learning and my education seriously (traditional or not), show my competency, and get enough work experience in-field, can a non-traditional education be overlooked/will work experience trump traditional education?

Not necessarily expecting you to be able to answer that, I just wanted to be more articulate.

 

[noonia]

oh my god this is the story of my life in the past few years. i actually did pretty well in high school, although i was diagnosed with ADHD about halfway through my junior year. I went on medication, and i did ok. but I've had so many issues in college. high school was structured enough to keep me in line with getting classwork done most of the time, but in college it's up to you to keep track of literally everything. syllabi are extremely mutable, and you really have to pay attention to what professors say about when things are due or what's on tests; nothing is just handed to you. also, because most classes are every other day, I felt like I had all this time in which i could do my homework, so I procrastinated so much that over time the quality of my work got worse and worse (or i just didn't do it). I also developed this huge stigma about things I regarded as work, and I did my best to avoid it because I was scared of it, in a way. that was mostly related to anxiety and depression, but with the ADHD I also got bored of things quickly, which contributed to my list of reasons for avoiding things I needed to do. long story short, in 2 1/2 to 3 years I failed 3 classes and got bad grades in several others, and it really broke down my confidence. I eventually buckled under the weight of the anxiety and depression I'd been in denial about for a couple of years at that point; and I'm pretty sure social anxiety has been a thing for me since I was pretty young, and I'd been in denial about that too. It took having a breakdown for me to start to realize what was going on.
I went home for several months to tweak meds (to help me stay mentally/emotionally steady while I work on learning how to deal with this stuff) and go to therapy.

the most basic (and really important) strategies I learned hinge on my NF traits (I think). I learned to be more honest with myself, and trust my intuition more; this manifests mostly as acknowledging when i feel bad about something, and figuring out why and what i should do to fix it (my self-confidence and self-respect are majorly tied to the quality of my work for my current objective, so I usually feel it when I'm not living up to my standards/ideals, or when I've been spinning my wheels for too long--and I almost always feel a lot better once I've gotten myself to do what I wasn't doing.)

as for the ADHD coping, I basically just write everything down. I don't even have to look back at it all the time, because writing things helps me remember them; but usually I do need to look back and it's good to have a visual reminder. I make lots of lists in lots of places, including margins in class notes, whiteboards, a little notepad I carry around with me, smartphone apps; anywhere I can/will likely encounter it later. I try to take really thorough notes in class and in other situations where I feel like/know I can't carry in my short-term memory all the things I need to remember.

I discovered that having a (largely) consistent sleep schedule is a really big thing for me, and if I deviate from it too much I feel the effects of it quickly and noticeably. for me it works best to go to bed at 11pm and wake up at 7am, but you have to find what's best for you as far as when you go to sleep/get up and how long you sleep. finding the sweet spot has really helped my focus and energy. I also have better focus and energy when I've eaten enough.

probably the most tricky thing is keeping myself interested in things. even if I really like what I'm doing, I'm prone to getting bored of it. I have to find a variety of ways to change things up, like where I study, if I listen to music or not, whether/how often to switch activities so I don't get burned out on one, etc. it helps, but sometimes I still get bored, and at that point sometimes I have to remind myself of why I'm doing these things in order to motivate myself to keep doing things when I don't feel like it. beside my bed I have a piece of paper with a sort of chain of goals on it, where the top is an immediate goal, which contributes to a broader goal beneath it, and so on until it reaches the biggest, most basic and desirable goal at the bottom. so even if the emotional reward seems distant, I can see the concrete goals that I want so badly to attain. mine looks kind of like this:

do classwork well
|
win college, get a degree
|
get a job, live independently
|
save up money
|
move west, get paid better (I want to be a teacher, my state gives teachers horrible salaries)

also make sure to take breaks, it's important, just be careful that you don't get sucked into the thing you're using to take a break. I like watching tv shows whose episodes are half an hour, or making food, just anything relaxing/distracting that you won't have too much difficulty stopping so you can finish your work.

with regards to getting into colleges, you could probably take some courses at a community college to boost your gpa, and increase your likelihood of getting into a university. in particular, it would probably be best to take gen ed classes whose credits can be transferred to fill the gen ed requirements of whatever university you're aiming to go to; they'll be cheaper at a community college, so when you go to a university you could mostly just have to pay for the specific courses in your major. you could also use the time/those classes at the community college to play around with strategies for doing better academically. you might be able to find examples online to give you ideas for strategies too.

for getting people to take you seriously, I don't know too much about how employers evaluate these things (and I'm sure it varies among different employers) but I feel like what people really want is to know is that you know what you're doing and that you are good at it, so if you can prove that maybe it'll work out? also I'm constantly being told that experience is a big thing people look for when hiring, so if you have a lot of that and references to back you up, that would be super great.

for the hopelessness and evading hopeless self-fulfilling prophecies... that's hard, but I can think of a few things? congratulate yourself for every victory, no matter how small. remind yourself about the things you've achieved, and the things you are good at. you are capable. you've found something you love, so you have to fight for it. work with your strengths, figure out ways to work around your weaknesses; and if you catch yourself running up against a wall, step back and assess the situation before you reach your breaking point (preferably. even if you do collapse, it's still not hopeless, try to find a way to get up and keep going). ask for help when you need it; in doing this, you are helping yourself. do what works for you. I'm 22 so I don't really have a more long-run perspective, but I don't think it's hopeless, and I have to believe that.


sorry this is so long (and if you already knew/tried this stuff, I'm so so sorry, I'd hate to be patronizing i just don't know what things you know)(and in the first paragraph I'm really just describing my experience)!!! it's just that I've been struggling with this kind of problem for a while and it's been a huge thing in my life, and I really sympathize. I hope some of this can be useful!

 

[littlebirdx]

@littlebirdx, I have been in exactly that same place with the difference that I never knew I had ADD and so was definitely not medicated. It can be done but it is hard work.

What you need to do is to organise your environment in such a way that it is a simple as possible for you. Cut out as many distractions and as much clutter as you can. If the home environment is too noisy, go sit in a library for studies. Do whatever it takes to reduce your expenditure of "spoons" (ie mental energy) throughout the day.

Get your alone time to recharge. Insist on it.

Meditate. For God's sake everyone, please learn to meditate. Its also good if you read Eckhart Tolle.

Get good sleep. This is essential. Especially going to bed early is critical here.

Get exercise. This dramatically clears up your brain fog. Intense exercise works much better than endurance here.

Watch your diet. Go easy on the sugars, the carbs and the wheat. Banish coke from your life forever.

Its ok to switch over what you are doing a lot. If you study in short bursts, thats ok, but in that case you really have to be 100% on the ball during such bursts.

You also have to get with whatever school you want to attend and see if they have accommodations for you. If you have an official dx for your ADD, that should be possible.

One thing I did was to apply for as many oral exams instead of written tests as I could. Quite a few of these were granted to me and I passed much more easily.

Get a tutor. I got me some really heavy duty tutoring which was instrumental in helping me through.

And, be kind to yourself! This is absolutely essential! Do not under no circumstances at all beat yourself up over anything. That is only counter-productive. Regret is hoping that the past will change, its like saying "if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle"

Thanks! This is really helpful. Up until about a year or so ago, I had a really hard time differentiating between my ADD tendencies and my INFP-ness; they can be quite deceiving together in that way! When I was in school previously, I had a very hard time speaking up about my educational needs with ADD because it was usually written off for other overlapping personality traits and ADD stereotypes. And I never really knew what kinds of options were available to me until it was far too late.

 

[littlebirdx]

Oh goodness, sounds like you've been through a lot. I have family members who also have ADD so I can sympathize to an extent, it can be terribly difficult. Kudos for sticking through it though - the path forward isn't always in a straight line! I think it's pretty darn awesome that you have a goal you want to work towards, and I do mean that sincerely.

Thank you! This actually means a lot to me, especially knowing you have an understanding of my struggle. Most of the time when people hear my story, they just give me a sympathetic look and say something like, "...Well, it's good that you're still trying. Just keep your head up. You'll get there!" And leave it at that.
*ahem* ESTJ bestie who really tries to be empathetic, but is still patronizing.... :dry: :frustrating: roud:

That is entirely up to you. Not exactly sure what 'level' gen-ed is, but if you're talking about the standard core classes, I think it's worth taking them - especially if you're not confident with the subject. ...

Gen-ed is short for general education courses; I'm thinking that's similar to a 'core class'? In most universities, it's the basic set of courses/credits that every student takes underlying a bachelor's degree. My basic line of thinking was: How am I going to get back into school if I failed out so poorly? How can I show to universities (and prove to myself) that I am taking my education seriously and that I'm going to do well this time? My hope is that by taking the time to learn the materials independently and CLEP out of a few classes I can show that I'm able & dedicated to learning... and in the process save myself a few hundred dollars by taking a much cheaper test. xD

Well I'm still in my twenties so uh, not sure what to say here. XD I completely understand the hopelessness though - I woke up a year or so ago wondering "what have I been doing with my life." lol. Persevere! Fake it 'till you make it! I tell myself things will get better, and that positive outlook seems to do wonders. You can do it. You can do it. (But of course you don't have to be positive all of the time. Let it out sometimes. Cry on your cat. Cry on your dog. Cry on a potato, I dunno. I think an amount of doubt is healthy and keeps you on your toes!)

Yaaay for the "wisdom" called crushing reality of your twenties! And perseverance! xD *high-five*

I know I've spouted quite a few idealistic ideas out here. Some things are very, very difficult to achieve, and that's something I keep in mind at all times as a sort of reality check. But, really, what if you don't make it? Then what? What are you going to do? My answer would be 'not much, so I guess I'll keep trying.' Not really the most inspiring of mottos, but hey. Do what you think is right at the time.

"Est quod est," I guess? xD Actually, you reminded me of one of my favorite quotes, haha.

“Tomorrow will be better.”
“But what if it’s not?”
“Then you say it again tomorrow. Because it might be. You never know, right? At some point, tomorrow will be better.”

Oh gosh I'm so sorry I rambled a lot, and I'm terribly sorry if I sounded patronizing. ;_; I have several younger siblings and they struggle through the same thing (I do too for that matter) so it's just...out of habit.I am also so sorry if I completely misunderstood some if not all of your questions and went off on a tangent. |D I know you don't know me but I just really want you to be happy! Let me know if I can clarify anything, I'd be more than willing to do so. Best of luck man!

You weren't patronizing at all! No need for apologies. :happy: But I do have one other question you might be able to help with: Considering everything, do you think it's wiser to simply "jump in" and go to school full time next year, or start part time and work my way up to full time?

 

[shoreline]

Thanks, all! You're immensely helpful and quite lovely.




I want to work for a non-profit org, working with women and children at risk, specifically in the rescue and restoration of human trafficking victims. Herein lies the problem: most reputable orgs that do effective, lasting work in this area require a minimum of a master's degree in psychiatry or a similarly related/helpful field and years of experience working with victims of sexual exploitation before they'll even let you come near a victim. (And rightfully so - I see the reasoning behind it and, for the most part, agree completely.)

So the question really is: If I take learning and my education seriously (traditional or not), show my competency, and get enough work experience in-field, can a non-traditional education be overlooked/will work experience trump traditional education?

Not necessarily expecting you to be able to answer that, I just wanted to be more articulate.

Hi.
I don`t know if this will be applicable to you or not, but a lot of people clock up experience as a volunteer, providing unpaid support work, and collecting as much experience as possible for CVs. It says then that the applicant is committed to the work!
Letting people get to know you in the field of work that you are interested in, is a way of creating the possibility that people will open up avenues for you. Very best of luck to you. : )

 

[FearAndTrembling]

It is almost impossible for me to stay in the moment.

I graduated at the bottom of my class. Like bottom 1%. I barely even graduated. I always had incompletes, and just hurried up at the end of the year, to get work in. I wasn't at school to learn, or to work. I was there to hang out with my friends. Teachers, and learning, were a minor inconvenience, to me. They were on the periphery.

I was basically immature. I could have graduated near the top of my class, if I put in any effort. But I took a year off, went to a state school, and got my grades up. Continued my education after that, straight A student all the way.

You are only 20. There is absolutely nothing to worry about. You have all the time in the world.

In my state, community college will basically accept anyone. It is cheap, and you can often get grants. A lot of people don't pay a penny. It's a good place to get your grades up.

 

[username123]

Okay, my whole comment just got deleted. Basically, I said that I didn't have a difficult time, but I did miss 3/4 of high school and had to get into college after that. I honestly think what I did was the best route: I took five classes at a community college and then applied to schools as a *transfer student*. And it's not like they discriminate against people who do that, I got into some really good schools that way. As for your 20s being hopeless, I can't say if it gets better because I'm still in my twenties & in college, but I feel like this time is really stressful for everyone because it feels like the future is hanging over our heads and like we have to make hasty, really important decisions. Even the most laid back people I know are stressed about their futures, so it's not just you!

 

[Miisha]

Ahhh I'm glad to hear that!

Considering everything, do you think it's wiser to simply "jump in" and go to school full time next year, or start part time and work my way up to full time?

Hmm, well consider; full time at a university is 12 hours minimum. That's 4 lecture classes(3 credits each) or 3 lab classes(4 credits each). If you were to take all lecture classes, that might be doable; you only need to be in 4 different classes. But if you were to take all lab classes, that's a total of 6 different classes you need to be present for, since lab classes typically are separated into two different classrooms. I feel that it depends on what classes you take, when, and in what combination. Another thing is that, although this depends on the school, each class is typically 80 minutes ~ 3 hours long. What do you feel like you can handle? It never hurts to start slow, because burning out is the last thing anyone wants. You can always add classes, but dropping them can leave a dent in your academic record - just keep in mind that going part-time means it's going to take longer to graduate (though I don't feel like that's a concern for you right now, 20 years young!). Again, I think it's what you feel you can handle.

Oh, and uh - finances. xD Definitely a huge part of this. "What can I afford?" is something to consider. 2-year colleges are typically dirt cheap. Jumping right into a university is expensive, but it means you won't have to meet new people all over again, like you might if you transfer from a 2 year to a 4 year school. It might help you out socially so that you don't need to start from square one again, but again - money. I guess it depends on whichever aspect you prioritize.

I really can't give a recommendation of one over the other since it depends on a lot of things that are a very personal preference. Those are some things I would consider though if I were in your shoes. //thoughtful squint