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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Does anyone find it disheartening how there are so many posts critical of INFPs online, and so very few that are positive? I was reading some threads on other sites/forums about how INFPs interact with other types,(last of which was this, on the INTJ site: Why don't INTJs like INFPs? - INTJ Forum which really wasn't even close to the worst of it) and I'm not gonna lie, it kinda hurt me a bit... I had no idea that people who had similar personalities to me were SO unappealing to others. I mean, I knew my personality type wasn't the coolest, flashiest or most popular, but the criticism is just SO MUCH and that thread isn't the best example. It also makes me worried that I'm inherently flawed when it comes to finding love and there is so much to overcome... I know type isn't everything, but there's an overwhelming trend between INTJs and ENFPs, and everyone likes INFJs, INFJs seem to be quite vocal in their dislike of us, and ENTJs don't seem to be particularly fond of us, so on and so forth. People are either 'meh' about us + often the best thing they can say is that we're 'harmless' or something. We don't register or we really piss people off. If there is something nice to say it's always 'oh INFPs are cool I guess, BUT ...' There's none of that soulmate relations trend that our other feelers seem to have. people say ENFJ but I NEVER seen an INFP-ENFJ relationship that has lasted. this all makes me wish i was a charismatic, bright ENFP or something.

I suppose this is a whiny post, but it's also not... it's more of an observation. In all my time perusing the forums, MBTI community on reddit, all separate personality sites, etc we are definitely the most vocally disliked while simultaneously being seemingly the most overlooked + perhaps disliked + deemed as useless in society. Additionally as a 4w5, I feel so alien. Has anyone felt this sense of alienation from the various communities, or re-affirmation of low self-esteem? It's been such a clear trend to me, and I'm surprised more people don't note it
 

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Like sensors, INFPs seem to be popular as a category people use for dismissing everybody people disliked growing up. It has little to nothing to do with actual INFPs and a lot to do with people's need for categorization.

That dumb jock in high school? OBVIOUSLY must have been an ESTP. That prissy conservative girl? ISFJ. Pretentious goth guy that constantly talked about how his upper-middle class life was hell? INFP. Meanwhile, the smart, approachable student president who also played on the football team gets promoted to ENTP, the mysterious girl with "strong principles" becomes INFJ, and the dark, handsome artistic guy who wrote that AMAZING love poem you got in 11th grade is labeled some sort of NFJ.

It's all bullshit and projection. Don't sweat it. There's nothing wrong with you.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Like sensors, INFPs seem to be popular as a category people use for dismissing everybody people disliked growing up. It has little to nothing to do with actual INFPs and a lot to do with people's need for categorization.

That dumb jock in high school? OBVIOUSLY must have been an ESTP. That prissy conservative girl? ISFJ. Pretentious goth guy that constantly talked about how his upper-middle class life was hell? INFP. Meanwhile, the smart, approachable student president who also played on the football team gets promoted to ENTP, the mysterious girl with "strong principles" becomes INFJ, and the dark, handsome artistic guy who wrote that AMAZING love poem you got in 11th grade is labeled some sort of NFJ.

It's all bullshit and projection. Don't sweat it. There's nothing wrong with you.
I appreciate this but honestly i've seen too much of it to not believe there's some inherent truth here. It's like... these are the people who think these things but would never tell you in person. Online, people can say how they really feel. Projections or not, the expressions of dislike seem to be, overall, how things actually are. I imagine that many/most INFPs HAVE been typed correctly, it's just that our attributes and traits are cast in a negative light. And projections are going to be part of the dislike, so it's all real.

Maybe most of those goth emos are truly INFPs... stereotypes have some truth. I am perhaps 'emo' myself in some shape or form. We are all inner emos in some way, maybe, and INFPs wear it on the inside AND outside (in some shape or form, stereotypical eyeliner or just sad eyes). Perhaps this makes some of us entirely unlikeable, I don't know. I think the idea that resonates with me most is okay, INFPs can be emos, ESTPs can be dumb jocks... things are how they are and we don't have to be throwing this sh*t around like pejoratives... I am no better than any of them. some people are wired to be more extreme and some aren't, and we all have these spheres we develop within. Personalities are fixed to a certain degree: not completely, but mostly. At least that's what most studies suggest about personality long-term.

Anyway, in this MBTI ecosystem, some of the trends are so strong that you can account for all the possible errors and mistypings and whatnot, and you'd still get some truth. This is all just what I've observed. Some types tend to be better liked and 'click' better with others, and INFPs just aren't a part of these relationship 1+1 equations. I'm not saying we SHOULD be liked more, but it is disheartening on some level
 

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I appreciate this but honestly i've seen too much of it to not believe there's some truth to it. It's like... these are the people who think these things but would never tell you in person. Online, people can say how they really feel. Projections or not, the expressions of dislike seem to be, overall, how things actually are. Most of these criticisms aren't projections. I imagine that many INFPs HAVE been typed correctly, it's just that our attributes and traits are cast in a negative light. In this MBTI ecosystem, some of the trends are so strong that you can account for all the possible errors and mistypings and whatnot, and you'd still get some truth. This is all just what I've observed. Some types tend to be better liked and 'click' better with others, and INFPs just aren't a part of these relationship 1+1 equations.
Let's put it this way. INFJs have a great reputation in the typology community. They're supposedly intelligent, mysterious, creative, passionate -- pick a positive adjective that relates to emotion somehow, and it'll have been applied to INFJs before.

Now, realize the fact that most of the people that identify as INFJ are actually using Si in some capacity, generally as either an SJ (especially ISFJ) or an INFP. That hasn't diminished the popularity of INFJ any, however. There's a lot of power in that label, and that power doesn't actually reflect anything inherent about the people who use that label for themselves.

Most of the stuff you see in the typology community is roleplay and bias confirmation. INTJs play up their "rationality" and downplay their emotionality, especially on forums like these, because supposedly that's what it means to be INTJ, and to do otherwise gets you cast out as a "mistype". Yet I'm an INTJ, and my emotions are a central part of my identity. Certainly moreso than pretending to be Spock or Sherlock. I'm most certainly not rational at all times. Yet because I wear those four letters, people expect certain behaviors (or lack thereof) from me, an expectation entirely divorced from who I actually am.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Let's put it this way. INFJs have a great reputation in the typology community. They're supposedly intelligent, mysterious, creative, passionate -- pick a positive adjective that relates to emotion somehow, and it'll have been applied to INFJs before.

Now, realize the fact that most of the people that identify as INFJ are actually using Si in some capacity, generally as either an SJ (especially ISFJ) or an INFP. That hasn't diminished the popularity of INFJ any, however. There's a lot of power in that label, and that power doesn't actually reflect anything inherent about the people who use that label for themselves.

Most of the stuff you see in the typology community is roleplay and bias confirmation. INTJs play up their "rationality" and downplay their emotionality, especially on forums like these, because supposedly that's what it means to be INTJ, and to do otherwise gets you cast out as a "mistype". Yet I'm an INTJ, and my emotions are a central part of my identity. Certainly moreso than pretending to be Spock or Sherlock. I'm most certainly not rational at all times. Yet because I wear those four letters, people expect certain behaviors (or lack thereof) from me, an expectation entirely divorced from who I actually am.
Eh I have a hard time believing MOST of it is roleplay and confirmation. People are playing out their personalities on this cyber, slightly unreal, amped-up level but I do believe that there are very real trends that can be observed IRL as well. I'm pretty good at detecting which people are truly of that type and which are confused.. it isn't that difficult. I still see what I see.

Regarding the INFJ thing: of course the people who aren't INFJs but think they are are CONSTANTLY called out for it... I've certainly read a bunch of threads myself from disgruntled INFJs who are so sick of the mistyped INFJs actual INFPs polluting their forums with their fluffy emo brainz
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Ok then, believe what you want. Speaking for myself, I've always preferred Fi to Fe, even back when I thought I was using Fe. It's both stronger and deeper, and because of that I admire it much more.
Yeah, I simply think that the trends can't really be shrugged off simply because people will be amping things up more. I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. Thanks for saying that about Fi... it isn't thatoften you hear someone praise the function
 

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Tbh, I think you are paying more attention to the negative posts and not as much to the positive ones. The OP of the thread you posted was expressing appreciation of INFP's. Then there was that post that came in defending INFP's when someone said they are hypocritical. There were several others that said positive things as well.

Also, what happened to this? "We're actually very independent and often don't care what people think. Sometimes it can actually be quite difficult for me to adequately express the degree to which I don't give a shit what people think.*"

INTJ's also have Fi and I can relate to that myself... it's the Fe that gets wrapped up in the social stuff, I thought. So my question is, why do you care about the criticisms? :tongue: Or is that statement not entirely accurate?
 

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Remember that as an INFP you are an Idealist who thinks and philosophizes about how to turn this World into an Utopia (When an INFP turns to their Dark Side, their ideal World might turn into a Distopia for the masses, but when an INFP their Dark Side takes over, they often believe that this is the only way to create harmony in the World. Which is essentially the end goal of an INFP: harmony). This often clashes with the 'T'-types who look at the World from a technical point of view, who easily dismiss your ideas, but that's because they're often stuck thinking in a box. As an INFP you are one of those people who constantly thinks out of the box, and based on the themes you mainly think about these thoughts are often extremely controversial, revolutionary and against conservative society. This turns you into the ENEMY of the conservative types who want to keep their boxes (labels) and their outdated society to classify and rule over people.

Also remember that since your end goal in the World is Harmony, many of J (judgmental)-types will see you as weak, because you will try to keep peace between people, you'll avoid aggressive clashes and try to keep discussions light and peaceful, but the J-types want you to take a stand, to fight, to defend your ideals. But then when you do make a stand, because they're stomping on your most precious ideals, then you might turn into an avenging angel with a flaming sword prepared to root out all evil, and this we as F (feeling)-types do in such an emotional and powerful way, that the T (technical)-types will see our outburst of emotions as irrational and ignore it as useless, childish blabbering, because they have a hard time understanding and coping with emotions.

On top of that there is the sad truth that most INFPs are idealists and dreamers who think and talk about the perfect World and how to bring it about, but often they're not the ones that will implement these ideas into reality, something INFJ 'will' do. (INFJs are not idle dreamers, but people capable of taking concrete steps to realize their goals and make a lasting positive impact.) This will make most types who are action driven and not thought driven see us as inconsequential. It's like being depressed yourself, but helping others get out of their depression. What right do you have to tell people how to get out of depression and help them actually get out of it, while you don't help yourself first? This is a good example of why action based types see us as inconsequential and so as people with empty words. The best thing to counter these arguments is by actually turning your own ideas and ideals into concrete things in reality (That is why I travel around the World doing volunteering work and trying to change the World if only a little bit, because that way I can turn my ideals into concrete reality)

Now you also have to realize that INTJ's, are 'J's, they judge the world, they judge people, they judge everything, while you as a 'P' perceive the World, and accept it as it is. This is why you often won't take action, like said before, because even if you dream and think about the perfect World, you are accepting, and loving of the World that is. This combined with your idealism of a harmonious World you don't understand why people judge you, because can't we all get along? Can't we all be friends? Those are things you often dream about, to have this World where everyone are brothers and sisters of each other and we are all friends. So then when a 'J' says things like they do on their forum, you will feel hurt (because we have a hard time dealing with criticism), because you don't understand why they can't see the benefits of this harmonious beautiful World that you dream of.

Now why don't INTJ's see the benefits of our harmonious beautiful World? Because they play a power-game, and they get energy out of playing that game, while you as an INFP create energy through your deeper connection with this beautiful harmonious World. A big part of how you socially interact with people, is based on you giving away the energy: to feed others, to serve others, and to create happiness. This is why after social interaction you have to seclude yourself to recreate the energy you lost/gave away during social interaction. This is also why we are often perceived as being overemotional, it's because we absorb all the negative energy of the people around us, while we're feeding them with positive energy, and that sometimes totally fries our emotional circuits. Now since the INTJ knows how to play the power-game of energy acquirement, they are perfect energy vampires that can suck us dry, which results in many of the comments you might see on INTJ forums about INFP's. Now why don't they believe in our harmonious beautiful peaceful World? Because in such World there would be no more power-games, there would be no more conflict, and this means that they will lose their (easy) way of acquiring the energy, which is utterly frightening for them.

I hope this made sense :)
 

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@sarahbelle68 I am friends with a few INTJ here on PerC and they genuinely appreciate INFPs. It is however easier, and perhaps for some more satisfying, to talk people down instead of praising them. Consider all communication you have during an average day. Conversations. News. Advertising. Random things you pick up on while in public. How much of it is negative and how much of it is positive? If we would research this scientifically my hypothesis would be that the majority of communication is negative. Especially from one person to another.

Thus it also to be expected that an INTJ is more likely to criticise an INFP (or any other type for that matter) than heap praise on them. This however doesn't mean that there is nobody in that community who actually appreciates INFPs. I have both personal and anecdotal evidence to back up that statement if needed.

Second part. I agree with @Zamyatin on roleplaying and confirming type bias within the MBTI community. Especially the less mature or less healthy people in this community are 'guilty' (I use this word because I can't think of a better one atm) of this behavior. I do believe that a portion of this group is behaving like this unintentionally. They have this urge to belong, find out about MBTI, discover their personality and read up on their personality type through profiles found on the internet which are filled with stereotypes/generalizations. They want to belong to the group, fit in (even the biggest individualist has this need) and their behavior will change to a certain degree in a manner that confirms their personality towards the other people in the group. This change happens on both conscious and subconscious levels imo.
 

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In overall, a good guideline for life is not to care what anyone says about anything in the internet.

And I think there are at least as many positive posts about INFPs as there are negatives. And these posts about INFPs don't really say anything about you. It's just talk about a category called INFPs, not you personally. And every type has its annoying and unlikeable sides, not just INFPs. There are a lot of people I don't like so it's okay that there are also people who don't like me regardless of type. Who cares if some INTJ/ENFP/AJDN in some forum don't like INFPs, it affects your life 0 %, unless you let it.

I do think I'm likeable and lovable. Lucky are those who get to live with me.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Tbh, I think you are paying more attention to the negative posts and not as much to the positive ones. The OP of the thread you posted was expressing appreciation of INFP's. Then there was that post that came in defending INFP's when someone said they are hypocritical. There were several others that said positive things as well.

Also, what happened to this? "We're actually very independent and often don't care what people think. Sometimes it can actually be quite difficult for me to adequately express the degree to which I don't give a shit what people think.*"

INTJ's also have Fi and I can relate to that myself... it's the Fe that gets wrapped up in the social stuff, I thought. So my question is, why do you care about the criticisms? :tongue: Or is that statement not entirely accurate?
Of course there are a few INTJs who like us, and as I said in the OP, the thread I posted was a bad example. Regarding friendships a bunch of them don't seem to mind and even do quite like us, from middling to quite a bit. I have very rarely heard positive things from INTJs about romantic relationships with INFPs. it's not that i'm 'ignoring' the positive, it's that the negative is disproportionately more common. I think anyone who persuses these forums quite a lot and all different sites and pays attention to what is said about INFPs on all sides, would agree. and INTJ is just one example... check out INFJ threads on INFPs, for instance. Really most threads on INFPs in romantic relationships by most other types will be quite negative or mostly negative. Rarely will a person of another type come to our forum to ask about relationship questions or say 'I love you guys!' In threads where INFPs are supposed to be praised, it's mainly us praising ourselves! I've been around these forums, all kinds of MBTI forums online, reddit etc. and the trends apply.

i can't really speak for all INFPs, but i definitely do care what people think. i wish we lived in a world where people weren't ostracized or condemned for being a bit different from the norm. to the extent that i need to express myself, i don't care because expression overrides feeling accepted i guess, but of course i'm human and it hurts when people don't like how i am. i'm not actually an alien, although it may seem like it sometimes. I'm not really trying to be negative, I'm just observing a trend that seems pretty damn clear to me after all this time. I'm not even drawing too many conclusions about it, it just seems to be how it is. I'm not saying that EVERYONE dislikes INFPs or has problems with our type particularly in romance, it's just that there's a noticeably larger amount of negativity about us compared to nearly everyone else. there is certainly a bunch of sensor hate but sensing types don't frequent the boards as much + are generally more accepted by society at large anyway. I just find it a bit sad that INFPs are so consistently criticized by other intuitives online + also not accepted in the world. When you break it down to the functions it's not surprising, I just thought it was worth mentioning.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
In overall, a good guideline for life is not to care what anyone says about anything in the internet.

And I think there are at least as many positive posts about INFPs as there are negatives. And these posts about INFPs don't really say anything about you. It's just talk about a category called INFPs, not you personally. And every type has its annoying and unlikeable sides, not just INFPs. There are a lot of people I don't like so it's okay that there are also people who don't like me regardless of type. Who cares if some INTJ/ENFP/AJDN in some forum don't like INFPs, it affects your life 0 %, unless you let it.

I do think I'm likeable and lovable. Lucky are those who get to live with me.
I'm not even trying to be negative but realistically, do you actually think there are more positive posts about INFPs than negatives by other types? especially when it comes to romantic relationships? I've been around awhile (not just posting but lurking) and I do find that hard to believe, especially when perusing other feeler forums. I myself think INFPs are wonderful and valuable, I just don't see that same value perceived about us by other types online. We don't usually get raves, ya know? And you know, with a dom judging function + being super introverted and feely in this world, I do get it. We aren't super accessible and our best parts are often not fully shown. I just thought it was enough of a trend to point out.

IDK I don't think something being written online precludes it from grabbing my attention... people are people and I like listening to what they have to say. Sure, I'm not every INFP but I'm not enough of a special snowflake to think I'm that entirely different... some of the criticisms people have about our type I certainly share in one way or another.

Whatever. I just thought it was woth mentioning as I've had conversations about this with other types in the past on a different forum (namely one INTP) who observed the same thing. I didn't at all intend for my post to put down our type, I just thought it was interesting that I hadn't really seen this kind of thing mentioned + it's been clear to me for a long time.
 

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Focus on the few, not the many.

Honestly, yes, I think most people do not like INFPs. I'd say the same for INTJs. If you focus on your alienation, you won't see the love, understanding, and unconditional acceptance that may be right under your nose.

*full disclosure* I love INFPs, so incorporate that biased error into your models.
 

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Focus on the few, not the many.

Honestly, yes, I think most people do not like INFPs. I'd say the same for INTJs. If you focus on your alienation, you won't see the love, understanding, and unconditional acceptance that may be right under your nose.

*full disclosure* I love INFPs, so incorporate that biased error into your models.
Yea we're 'The Big Picture' people, so seeing things that are under our nose is kind of hard ;) :p
 

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*shrug* i agree with you op, and identify with your feelings of alienation 100% but honestly why is it so important to feel desired in the first place? I have found that being in the "worst" positions socially as individuals often gives one the best view of reality and the strongest ability to invoke change. Even feeling "unhappy" and "alienated" yes these feelings are on a sensory level not pleasurable but they also give you a certain emotional/internal strength and understanding of yourself and others that people who never experience this just will never understand. i feel that at a certain point if you are able to find a cause to fight for in our miserable society you just break through being unhappy with yourself/how most people superficially perceive you and fucking decide to make your existence and heightened awareness of reality actually WORTH SOMETHING outside of your individual, tiny ego-controlled body...

You don't have to be the most popular person in order to be able to work meaningfully with other people in the world. Beings unpopular sure is not the most desirable position ---when you are siding with the position of people with power, but to be able to look past popularity/past bodily desire itself is probably the true struggle/most significant struggle for the infp. Transcend your own fucking individual limitations/ego desire and look at all that you can effect in the world from your unique perspective and whose impact will be far greater than whether or not you ever have a boyfriend/whether you have 100 friends or whatever the hell. Honestly I think the fact that our society has brainwashed us to value all of the most meaningless of pleasure-based, materialistic desires is probably why infps usually feel so lost and confused in this world. Fight for what you know is important outside of what will only benefit you materially and all insecurities will fade away.

Not sure if this makes sense or sounds really hostile, sorry not my intention i just wish infps realized how important a place in society we hold and that it always seems to be the menial emotional bullshit details that always hold us back.
 

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Fight for what you know is important outside of what will only benefit you materially and all insecurities will fade away.
:standing ovation:

I know that if I had not had to endure false criticism of my gender, if I had enough privilege to protect me from the parts of patriarchy I don't like, then I would still be going around telling people how much easier their lives would be if they would just submit more to authority. :crying: I think the same goes for other forms of unfair criticism. If my personality were widely attractive, I might never have looked outside myself to see who else needed to be included.

It's still unfair, don't get me wrong. But it does make the appreciation, when it happens, seem all the more significant. :group hug:
 

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To begin with I am not sure there is such a trend as infps being less liked than other types. I have not experienced that, and I am pretty vigligant about negative criticism. And as @yippy said, comments tend to be negative, especially on the internet I think. That I think is a trend.

About intj's in particular, aren't they generally pretty focused on effectivising and improving? Fixing? Perhaps they feel positive things about infps, but vocalise what they think needs improvement? For a romantic relationship, it might not be the most common, but I have seen infps write about relationships with intjs on this forum, that seemed happy, so it must be possible :) . Generally I think most people want a minimum level of similarity in a romantic relationship, especially if sharing a home, both for communication and habits matching each other decently. So it is only natural some types will be a more common fit I think, though all is possible (And taste is like the butt -divided. As the old saying goes).

In the linked thread about why intj's might hate infps there almost seemed to be a consensus that they didn't, as far as I read. One person said working together would perhaps not be great. I could see that perhaps, having pretty different approaches, but also complementing each other on the other hand, if the differences could be overcome. From my experience they have a more structured and clear thinking process than me, and more knowledge often, but more easily get stuck when something new arises, and I can come up with new solutions and ideas quicker, though often using their knowledge in the process "what about doing like that, could it work? is it possible to...?", thinking a bit broader.

I think @harpseal have a very valid point as well. It is not perhaps the most desirable thing to be liked by most (to me it is very important to be liked by a few, but as long as my closest(could do with a few more close ones though) like me, who cares about the rest?). It depends on why they dislike you I think. It is a valid question to ask why people don't like infps, if it is true, I think, perhaps there are things that need improvement. But perhaps there is a purpose to it, being uncomfortable. I have a book... Dangerous thoughts? think that was the title, which argues similar to harpseal I think, that you need to be uncomfortable to make significant change. It argues that people don't like the new, unfamiliar, new habits, new concepts... that our brains reward small new changes, but significant ones produce stresshormones. To be someone who dare be uncomfortable will bring on negative judgement from others. But it also serve an important role.
 

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I think it's quite hard for INFPs. They are naturally sensitive and their self awareness coupled with their sensitivity can make them feel sorry for themselves if they're not on top of things. That's not a criticism, just an observation.

I think that INFPs are lovely, and they have so much going for them, just as much as any other type. Other types all have their horrible sides too, and anyone who isn't mentally healthy, no matter what their type, can be a massive pain in the ass. I know I have been.
 

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The other day, a INFP mentioned how it is the worst personality type, and nobody likes them, and, honestly, I don't see it. I was actually quite puzzled by this affirmation. I'd say it is easier to see other personality types as having a bigger quantity of positive traits, however, when it is your own, you can easily see how limitating they are. Depending on how you look at it, mostly any trait can be a talent or a curse.

[...]
About intj's in particular, aren't they generally pretty focused on effectivising and improving? Fixing? Perhaps they feel positive things about infps, but vocalise what they think needs improvement?
[...]
This is often the case, at least for me.

The most interesting conversations I've had were with INFPs, quite a number of them were actually life changing. Obviously, I've never mentioned that to them.
What I have mentioned, however, is the defeatism and tendency to self-loathing that I've seen in the ones I know. I tried to show them how to change a situation that they were not happy about, even taking action if it was something I could do. It seems a bit offensive now, even though I didn't mean to offend.

I've never been in a romantic relationship with an INFP, even though I find them quite attractive. There is some random hate thrown towards stereotypical features around the online community, but this alone does not disqualify a person and I'm sure some people can make things work, despite of the differences. This is also not something to be offended about, the same way some people think they would have trouble dealing with you, you may have trouble dealing with them. It is not an offense, just a tendency.
 
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