INFPs being Moral Nazis?
I know I'm an INFP, but I have honestly never related to the idea that people have to walk on eggshells around INFPs to not offend their ethical standpoints and what not.
On a lot of descriptions I read, a positive attribute of an INFP usually listed says something about people appreciating their strong moral foundations. Well someone can't appreciate another's moral foundation unless the person with the moral foundation has regurgitated their values over and over in the most unnecessary circumstances. I know one girl that claims to share views with Sarah Palin on abortion. Then during class we looked at statistics regarding how Americans felt about abortion, and a slim majority, the public went pro-choice. Referring to the pro-life people, she went crazy, and was like "EWWWWWW UGHHH PEOPLE ARE SOOOOOOO IGNORANT LIKE YOU CAN'T TELL A WOMAN WHAT TO DO WITH HER BODY THAT'S NOT RIGHT LIKE IT'S NOT YOUR CHOICE EWWWWWWWW!". She also vehemently supported Israel bombing Palestine and basically every other war in the world but then also imposed her views on her classmates about how much she was in love with transcendental, one-with-nature, peaceful Hindu philosophies. Everyone, of course, praised her for her radical views and her ability to stand up for what she believes in. But ever since then I have rarely shared an opinion on any subject (unless I'm with people I can trust enough where I can look stupid and not be defamed) in fear of looking like that girl.
Yes, I do have very solidified values that may seem odd to most people. However, they can just as easily budge if another, better viewpoint is presented. And I would never impose my beliefs onto somebody else or look down upon someone for not sharing a similar view of the world. The descriptions about INFP morals make us sound judgmental, dogmatic, and hypersensitive to any ideology we do not agree with. Does anybody agree, am I interpreting these descriptions wrong?
On a lot of descriptions I read, a positive attribute of an INFP usually listed says something about people appreciating their strong moral foundations. Well someone can't appreciate another's moral foundation unless the person with the moral foundation has regurgitated their values over and over in the most unnecessary circumstances. I know one girl that claims to share views with Sarah Palin on abortion. Then during class we looked at statistics regarding how Americans felt about abortion, and a slim majority, the public went pro-choice. Referring to the pro-life people, she went crazy, and was like "EWWWWWW UGHHH PEOPLE ARE SOOOOOOO IGNORANT LIKE YOU CAN'T TELL A WOMAN WHAT TO DO WITH HER BODY THAT'S NOT RIGHT LIKE IT'S NOT YOUR CHOICE EWWWWWWWW!". She also vehemently supported Israel bombing Palestine and basically every other war in the world but then also imposed her views on her classmates about how much she was in love with transcendental, one-with-nature, peaceful Hindu philosophies. Everyone, of course, praised her for her radical views and her ability to stand up for what she believes in. But ever since then I have rarely shared an opinion on any subject (unless I'm with people I can trust enough where I can look stupid and not be defamed) in fear of looking like that girl.
Yes, I do have very solidified values that may seem odd to most people. However, they can just as easily budge if another, better viewpoint is presented. And I would never impose my beliefs onto somebody else or look down upon someone for not sharing a similar view of the world. The descriptions about INFP morals make us sound judgmental, dogmatic, and hypersensitive to any ideology we do not agree with. Does anybody agree, am I interpreting these descriptions wrong?
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Some of us are Fi monsters more than others. If you see my "Benevolent Dictator Streak" thread, for example, you'll see that I was a domineering moralist as a child, but I've soften up some and am still working on it.
I don't really try to change people anymore. I try to help them recognize their potential, but I'm less direct/bossy about it. I tend to tell people what I need/want/expect from them, and if they violate my Fi anyway, I'll just tell them what's wrong and then let it go at first, if it continues I start to distance myself from the person, and if it continues still, then at some point I'm going to just be done with that person.
I don't really try to change people anymore. I try to help them recognize their potential, but I'm less direct/bossy about it. I tend to tell people what I need/want/expect from them, and if they violate my Fi anyway, I'll just tell them what's wrong and then let it go at first, if it continues I start to distance myself from the person, and if it continues still, then at some point I'm going to just be done with that person.
I am going to leave the woman in your example out of it, because I probably would a few things to say to her if presented an opportunity in real life...
That being said, I don't think people have to walk on eggshells around me either. Some may, but I think I am fair skinned. If something bothers me I will tell them before it becomes an issue in a calm way. I do my best not to impose my views onto others, but sometimes I know I can slip. Of course... I guess this depends on what a person considers "walking on eggshells" to be. I would guess this varies from person to person.
I find my values don't tend to budge very quickly or easily. I will modify them if I find something I think is better, but it can take some time if so. To me, values are different from my standard ideas/positions. I don't generally look down upon others that do not share my views, though I know there are exceptions... whether that be right, wrong, or indifferent... I am human and that is how I am.
I think we are (in general) judgmental, dogmatic, and hypersensitive in regards to ideology/values... when compared to some other types/ the social norms. I wouldn't say that we are all in some sort of extreme like some descriptions like to paint us, just more than what is socially "normal."
That being said, I don't think people have to walk on eggshells around me either. Some may, but I think I am fair skinned. If something bothers me I will tell them before it becomes an issue in a calm way. I do my best not to impose my views onto others, but sometimes I know I can slip. Of course... I guess this depends on what a person considers "walking on eggshells" to be. I would guess this varies from person to person.
I find my values don't tend to budge very quickly or easily. I will modify them if I find something I think is better, but it can take some time if so. To me, values are different from my standard ideas/positions. I don't generally look down upon others that do not share my views, though I know there are exceptions... whether that be right, wrong, or indifferent... I am human and that is how I am.
I think we are (in general) judgmental, dogmatic, and hypersensitive in regards to ideology/values... when compared to some other types/ the social norms. I wouldn't say that we are all in some sort of extreme like some descriptions like to paint us, just more than what is socially "normal."
I have deep values but I don't think they're founded on irrational premises. There are things like human rights, universal health care, social welfare etc that I believe in and can rationally justify. Honestly, if somebody came along and offered me a much much better way of looking at something, I would not go down without a fight (that Fi will kick in), but I would eventually change my stance. Just because I have an emotional attachment to some of my ideas, it doesn't mean that I'm irrational.
That being said, I'm am very intellectually flexible when my values are not being called into question.
Honestly, speak up for what you believe in if you can give the proper justifications. That whole class sounds really stupid for praising such ridiculous beliefs because she had the 'courage' to have them. What is more important to me is what you actually say rather than the conviction behind the words.
That being said, I'm am very intellectually flexible when my values are not being called into question.
Honestly, speak up for what you believe in if you can give the proper justifications. That whole class sounds really stupid for praising such ridiculous beliefs because she had the 'courage' to have them. What is more important to me is what you actually say rather than the conviction behind the words.
i used to be like thatbut i'm getting better,i'd say 4 times out of 6 i'll stand up for myself if someone is violating my"morals"
i often say i have"pseudu morallity"because my morals aren't based on anything, but i still abide by them
i often say i have"pseudu morallity"because my morals aren't based on anything, but i still abide by them
Actually, that sounds like a person I know who claims to be INFP. She voices her opinion very clearly and passionately. I sometimes doubt that she's INFP, but I guess her strong beliefs are the cause.
I disagree that the descriptions makes us sound dogmatic and judgmental--I think they actually make us sound like we're fine with almost everything, but they sure make us sound hypersensitive and easy to offend. I'm INFP, hardcore Catholic, and almost impossible to offend. I guess I'm grounded on my values, but I'd like to consider myself open-minded enough to have other people have theirs. So yeah, it's not a contradiction to have strong values and still be open-minded.
I disagree that the descriptions makes us sound dogmatic and judgmental--I think they actually make us sound like we're fine with almost everything, but they sure make us sound hypersensitive and easy to offend. I'm INFP, hardcore Catholic, and almost impossible to offend. I guess I'm grounded on my values, but I'd like to consider myself open-minded enough to have other people have theirs. So yeah, it's not a contradiction to have strong values and still be open-minded.
I completely agree with this. I do have high, very specific moral expectations of myself, but I normally do not impose them on others. For the most part, I don't care what other people are doing or what they believe in, as long as they aren't hurting anyone. I think this ties into what heartturnedtoporcelain said, because my strongest values are tied into what I believe are very basic human rights.
My opinions budge easily, too, once I recognize that I've been wrong and that another way might be better. Other times, I won't budge and am very firm about what I believe in, though I am always open to hearing other people out.
I don't mind debating or stating my opinions/beliefs/etc. as long as I feel the people I'm sharing them with are actually going to take me and what I'm saying seriously. Unfortunately, debates often escalate into arguments, because people just want to "win." If people are going to be that stubborn about it and are going to refuse to genuinely listen to opposing viewpoints, I'm not going to waste my energy. For me, it's not about who's right or wrong. I just care about finding the best solution, answer, whatever.
There are some things that I will more strongly react to, but it's not like a bomb going off, as I've heard it suggested. Like, I'll always stand up for someone when people start talking about them behind their back, or if someone is being very judgmental about them. Even if I don't like the person, the stuff people are saying is usually unjustified. I also don't like it when people start bullying others. Stuff like that.
My opinions budge easily, too, once I recognize that I've been wrong and that another way might be better. Other times, I won't budge and am very firm about what I believe in, though I am always open to hearing other people out.
I don't mind debating or stating my opinions/beliefs/etc. as long as I feel the people I'm sharing them with are actually going to take me and what I'm saying seriously. Unfortunately, debates often escalate into arguments, because people just want to "win." If people are going to be that stubborn about it and are going to refuse to genuinely listen to opposing viewpoints, I'm not going to waste my energy. For me, it's not about who's right or wrong. I just care about finding the best solution, answer, whatever.
There are some things that I will more strongly react to, but it's not like a bomb going off, as I've heard it suggested. Like, I'll always stand up for someone when people start talking about them behind their back, or if someone is being very judgmental about them. Even if I don't like the person, the stuff people are saying is usually unjustified. I also don't like it when people start bullying others. Stuff like that.
I'm usually to care free to bother, Yea I have my values but they are my values and I ain't expecting people to follow them, People have their own thoughts and beliefs and a lot of them I personally wouldn't agree with but that's them they do what they want, why should I care.
Only time I care is when they try forcing them on me then I will bite.
Other then that I have a open mind, care free and usually lose focus and go off-topic. :mellow:
Only time I care is when they try forcing them on me then I will bite.
Other then that I have a open mind, care free and usually lose focus and go off-topic. :mellow:
I completely agree. Getting on a sopabox about opinions is...masturbatory. That said, I admit that I get drawn in every once in a while, although far less now than when I was a teenager - time and experience taught me a few lessons in humility, and how it feels to eat my words when my perspectives shift.
There are still circumstances in which I will bring the rhetorical smackdown - like when someone is being vocally bigoted and simplistic about one of my capital-v Values (gender equality, human rights, pacifism, etc.). But, like you said - I'm not going to waste my energy if there isn't anyone really listening, and I try to limit my involvement in those conversations to educating, and offering better ideas.
I've also learned that, if I do choose to engage in a debate, I absolutely must remain completely stoic. I'm 4' 11", young, and a woman; if I raise my voice for any reason - even in anger, or for emphasis - I just look like a little girl throwing a fit.
There are still circumstances in which I will bring the rhetorical smackdown - like when someone is being vocally bigoted and simplistic about one of my capital-v Values (gender equality, human rights, pacifism, etc.). But, like you said - I'm not going to waste my energy if there isn't anyone really listening, and I try to limit my involvement in those conversations to educating, and offering better ideas.
I've also learned that, if I do choose to engage in a debate, I absolutely must remain completely stoic. I'm 4' 11", young, and a woman; if I raise my voice for any reason - even in anger, or for emphasis - I just look like a little girl throwing a fit.
infp's have an emotional connection/relationship with their beliefs. which means that these beliefs are harder to get rid of, put aside or silence. but no, infp's rarely voice these beliefs and much less impose them on others.
I get emotional about things quite often about things and so I've had to learn to try and differentiate my serious with a capital 's' tone from my just randomly ranting tone. My serious tone is something that I use when I really want my opinions to be respected. I don't go totally stoic like you but I do try and infused my tone with depth and, yes, a shade of stoicism. ... I can't really describe it which is frustrating.
Moral Nazi? Said today by me at around 11AM @ a meeting @ work w/numerous professionals gathered 'round dah table:
"...that's not ethical & it's like experimenting [on humans]..."
so yeah, sometimes I guess I am?
"...that's not ethical & it's like experimenting [on humans]..."
so yeah, sometimes I guess I am?
It really takes my values being imposed and stomped upon for me to take any real offence.
I may have strong expectations in place for myself, but I do not feel that it is my place to set or dictate the moral standards of others... live and let live.
I may have strong expectations in place for myself, but I do not feel that it is my place to set or dictate the moral standards of others... live and let live.
I actually feel I have to walk on eggshells around others in order to avoid offending them.
I have friends of many faiths. My best friend is agnostic (she believes in God). I am religious but I don't spend my time pounding my beliefs into people like some people I know. It's like they expect you to give them the time to listen to them inform you because they think you're missing out yet they have these narrowminded opinions of who you really are.
I don't believe in getting into debates - likes trying to find out all the ways I can oneup the other side to gain points. I just believe in mutual respect, regardless of beliefs.
I have friends of many faiths. My best friend is agnostic (she believes in God). I am religious but I don't spend my time pounding my beliefs into people like some people I know. It's like they expect you to give them the time to listen to them inform you because they think you're missing out yet they have these narrowminded opinions of who you really are.
I don't believe in getting into debates - likes trying to find out all the ways I can oneup the other side to gain points. I just believe in mutual respect, regardless of beliefs.
I don't think of myself as a nazi 
I don't even think I'm particulalry moral. I'm rather easy-going and accepting and I don't walk around telling people what I think would be morally the right thing to do.
I don't even think I'm particulalry moral. I'm rather easy-going and accepting and I don't walk around telling people what I think would be morally the right thing to do.
It occurs to me, after several days since that posting, that I may not have been clear enough with what I wanted to say. Let me illustrate with the image below. Sometimes and on some days... not many, but a few.... you'll find me dress as such:
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That is the darkside of me. Speaking of being a Benevolent Dictator. It bothers me that I fantasize about being one with that you don't know whats go for you streak. Jailing people I feel that have views that discriminate, hate, and try to make society go backwards in the name of some traditionalist nonsense.
I will finish this now as I hate discussing controversial issues and politics, but yes, Fi is a powerful emotion, and even T logic can't penetrate it. Its like trying to jam a spear though metal. I normally keep these things to myself as I don't want that beast to come out within me, and the fact that I do hate conflict. So I guess I am a closet moral Nazi, can't say I'm proud of that or not.
I will finish this now as I hate discussing controversial issues and politics, but yes, Fi is a powerful emotion, and even T logic can't penetrate it. Its like trying to jam a spear though metal. I normally keep these things to myself as I don't want that beast to come out within me, and the fact that I do hate conflict. So I guess I am a closet moral Nazi, can't say I'm proud of that or not.
I watched a recording of Teen Mom with my brother last night, and I was shocked by how some of their attitudes, but I didn't say anything about it though.
i agree. and we're hardest on ourselves. i know i've pardoned all kinds of crimes committed against me and against others (though not forgotten, cos all infp wounds -even vicarious- are permanent I'll remember everything so that i form this composite image of you so that when its gone too far and i do sacrifice quietness and react it will be justified.
I'll remember everything so that i form this composite image of you so that when its gone too far and i do sacrifice quietness and react it will be justified.
1. That girl sounds crazy. I'm pro-life but this girl doesn't make any sense. Please don't be discouraged by her ignorance. I mean that as a loving INFP too.
2. To me, "walking on eggshells" would refer to the potential of hurting my feelings, not that I can't stand up for myself. Like Blueguardian said, I may have the tendency to be internally judgmental, dogmatic, and hypersensitive regarding my beliefs, but I would never impose them on someone else or bash someone else's beliefs. I have been told by INTPs that they feel they need to walk on eggshells around me because they think they'll offend me unintentionally. But the truth is, we're just intense people. Easily misunderstood. So, even if we are judgmental, dogmatic, or hypersensitive, we are not likely to externally initiate a battle unless under a circumstance that caused us to become a Joan of Arc. I feel that someone would have to really seek me out and draw that part out of me to spark a real debate... it's not likely to happen.
2. To me, "walking on eggshells" would refer to the potential of hurting my feelings, not that I can't stand up for myself. Like Blueguardian said, I may have the tendency to be internally judgmental, dogmatic, and hypersensitive regarding my beliefs, but I would never impose them on someone else or bash someone else's beliefs. I have been told by INTPs that they feel they need to walk on eggshells around me because they think they'll offend me unintentionally. But the truth is, we're just intense people. Easily misunderstood. So, even if we are judgmental, dogmatic, or hypersensitive, we are not likely to externally initiate a battle unless under a circumstance that caused us to become a Joan of Arc. I feel that someone would have to really seek me out and draw that part out of me to spark a real debate... it's not likely to happen.
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