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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My youngest seems to be an ENFP. She fits the profiles from what I have read. She is 11 and I have noticed htat no matter what rule I put down, she wants to, in fact, HAS to argue it to see what loop holes are in in. She fights everything I suggest to her.

I have raised, sucessfully, an INTJ. She also managed to challenge me on everything, but instead of arguing about it, she went off and did what she wanted, and damn the consequences.

I am INFJ myself, so the whole intuiton thing is something I get. We daydream together and follow each others thoughts easily. I understand her need to be around lots of people and have augmented things to allow and provide her plenty of social interaction. I love this child and find her an absolute joy to be around, if somewhat exhausting ,when she fires questions at me the first second I walk in the door from work.

I am asking for pointers from adults with this personality. What did you wish your parents had understood about you as a preteen/teenager? What do you wish they had done different? What would have helped you to feel better about yourself ? What did they do right?

Thanks in advance.
 

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MOTM Nov 2010
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It's not going to change who she is and it won't make any difference in the arguing but just make sure to constantly reinforce her good behavior. And don't judge others around her. She will hate it.

I'm an ENFP and my daughter is an ENFP. Just because I know what I wanted at her age (13) doesn't make raising her any more easier. She is a handful and fights everyone on everything. Just watch the "power tripping", they are very sensitive to that. You have to be skillful in how you parent. For instance, instead of telling her you don't like her to mix with a certain group of bad kids, just move out of town and blame it on work.

Good luck reigning in on Fi.

Oh yeah, one more thing. You have Fe. Don't think for a moment you will be able to turn her Fi into Fe. She is staying true to herself. The most you can do is ask "how do you think that person feels?" to work on her empathy for others. But if you try "how do you think that makes me feel" she will think you are emotionally trying to manipulate her and won't care. It will backfire.
 
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I agree with Rasputin, the power-tripping sucks. My dad pulled that and I not only resented it but soon discounted him as having relevance as an authority figure...Simply following rules because he provided a house and food. Mom at least explained and consulted on why a punishment was fair.
 

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Agreed with both. "Because I say so" is never a valid argument for an ENFP. Communication is key, really. We can be very emotional sometimes and I personally hated my parents' reactions to my outbursts. My father (INTP) usually scolded me for being irrational and mother (ESFP) said I was trying to manipulate her. You might not be able to entirely understand what's making her upset, but cut her some slack when she's down - she'll appreciate it.

I don't know about other ENFPs, but I fail at chores and being organised, which leads to more arguments. We need to come to our own conclusions. You can't convince me a messy room will make me feel bad until I actually feel the clutter suffocating me. Then I'll agree and apologise for being so stubborn, but I need to feel it for myself first. So basically, be supportive and give advice, but don't expect her to follow it straight away. :)

Good luck! I'm sure you'll get along splendidly. ^^
 

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Personally, I think from what you've described, you've been doing a great job so far! Both of my parents were SJs, and didn't know how to deal with my raging emotions. It was hard to come to them when I wanted to "daydream," and when I wanted to explore socially, they didn't support me and made it difficult. It's great that you understand she has a need to explore and are providing her the trust and freedom for that. My parents didn't provide me with those things and it lead to a few traumatic fights when I was younger.

I will give you this one piece of advice: Being stern with an ENFP is perfectly 100% acceptable, as long as you are being perfectly 100% sincere and logical. Perfect your rhetoric, because you'll need it. Eventually, if you keep winning these arguments she keeps firing at you, as she matures she will learn to trust your judgment (for the most part) and the questions will slowly become less frequent.....hopefully...:laughing:
 

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I was raised by two Js and what I can tell you based on that is this: Don't expect your child to turn into a J. ENFPs are never going to be as bothered by disorganization and aren't going to be as motivated to keep up on chores. It isn't because they don't care or they're being disrespectful. Sometimes they forget, or just don't see why there's an urgency to get it done, except that their parent will probably get angry about it.

If you don't expect her to be anything but true to herself and accept her as she is, she'll be well on her way toward feeling good about herself. That doesn't mean you can't ever enforce rules! But it will definitely help if you explain why the rules are in place. You may still have to be prepared to deal with her finding ways around them...I know I always did.
 

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Have you considered the possibility that she might be ENTP? They argue too :frustrating:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thankyou all for the advice, keep it coming! LOL

Starri: yes, I have considered if she is an ENTP, or another types. I have spent much time going through the child descriptions and the ENFP one fit her the best. I guess to actually and truly type her I will have to wait, but I am getting a strong NF off of her. She is very tuned into others emotions and cares deeply what others think about her. She brought an extra coat to school all last year becuase "there are some kids in my clas sthat dont have warm clothes, and I hhve one so if I bring an extra, then they can borrow mine for the day and be warm."

Dejav: This makes me wonder if she is a ENFJ instead. She really loves to help and loves to have a schedual and know what's happening. On the other hand, she loves suprises, and can change her plans on the flip of a dime and not really care about it. Is it possible that is due to her being extroverted? My wife, myself and my other two children are very introverted and perhaps I am reading the P when it is Extroverted function at play?

GoGo: Thankyou. I worry about being stern. It would have crushed me(and did do so) as a child. People could look at me with a 'look' and it upset me! LOL

Lullaby: She is rather emotional, which upsets my INTJ wife, (which makes me laugh because I am INFJ)but I just hug my daughter up to me and help her calm down . I find that works rather well. I have a tendancy to let her have her head, if it's safe and she has a good reason, or if I think it is reasonable. Hormones are not making this easier for her. I try to give her lots of room, as in, I shut the bedroom door and as long as food is not attracting ants, we're all good. As for having someone follow my advice, my other daughter, whom is INTJ, dissabused me of that notion long ago.:laughing:

Moby: I agree, I hate parent who powertrip their kids. I had that from my father, it was his way or the highway. This caused me to move out at 16 just to prove a point. I swore that I would never do that with my kids.

Pink: I think it would be very difficult to raise a child of my own type also. My daughter also has to fight me and everyone else, on everything. It makes me wonder if she will be a lawyer when she grows up, because if there is the slightest loophole or incoinsistancy, she will find it. She will argue it and she has to make a stand about everything. I have noticed that she is concerned about others, but she will also say to her older brother "why did you say that? you know you said it to just upset me. It didn't work". (calling him out on his manipulation tactics) I like to think I am encouraging empathy through my kids having to live with my Fe.

:happy:
 

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I agree with everything that's been said already. Just spend time with her and be sincere. Don't worry so much about pleasing her. If you're true to yourself, that will please her. My parents were both ENFPs so I didn't run into problems with them much (aside from the fact that nothing gets done around our house) but I know it always frustrates me when I think my family isn't being genuine about something.

I know for me it was always fun to play devil's advocate, even when I agreed with the first thing my parents said. It's part of Ne, playing with all the possibilities. I would try not to take it personally if you feel like she's offending you by challenging what you say, because it could just be her way of getting your attention. I know I always just wanted my family to think I was smart (by proving them wrong!), though arguing with them often just made them think I was full of myself. :confused:
 

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I realize you said 'Adults'
And I'm still 16.
But I can tell you that the biggest chasm my parents and I have is that they use
"I'm an adult and you are a child" too often.
They don't try to explain things to me, and have more or less discredited me of ever being responsible/competent/accountable because of my 'down' moods.

My mother, ESTJ, feels that when I'm just talking about my problems or venting
Or basically explaining them
That she has to solve them, and gets angry when I don't accept her solutions.

I've decided to stop trying with my parents and just get as far as possible away from them as soon as I possibly can.
I don't think there is much help for my situation.
:frustrating:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I realize you said 'Adults'
And I'm still 16.
But I can tell you that the biggest chasm my parents and I have is that they use
"I'm an adult and you are a child" too often.
They don't try to explain things to me, and have more or less discredited me of ever being responsible/competent/accountable because of my 'down' moods.

My mother, ESTJ, feels that when I'm just talking about my problems or venting
Or basically explaining them
That she has to solve them, and gets angry when I don't accept her solutions.

I've decided to stop trying with my parents and just get as far as possible away from them as soon as I possibly can.
I don't think there is much help for my situation.
:frustrating:

Well, I welcome and value your opinion anyhow. Thankyou for writting in and posting. Anyone with pointers is welcome to post on this.

My father was like that also and if you read my above post, you saw what happend with that. :laughing:

I think one of the worse mistakes parents can make is to discount their teens opinions and not listen to them when they actually talk to you. l am working hard to make sure mine never feel that they have no voice, simply because they are younger than me.
 

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Well, I welcome and value your opinion anyhow. Thankyou for writting in and posting. Anyone with pointers is welcome to post on this.

My father was like that also and if you read my above post, you saw what happend with that. :laughing:

I think one of the worse mistakes parents can make is to discount their teens opinions and not listen to them when they actually talk to you. l am working hard to make sure mine never feel that they have no voice, simply because they are younger than me.
But I want to also forewarn you that they are going to say the dumbest crap and do the dumbest crap that may really hurt themselves. It is the most challenging thing.

For instance, ENFPs will get on their high horse about not judging people. AND they are social chameleons. Guess what can happen? Your child is open to hanging out with really questionable characters. Of ALL ages (we are all equals. oy). You're child easily is falls prey to societal influence. And because they "don't judge", their heads can really be up there ass when it comes to choosing friends.

Suppose you've always treated your child with respect, never talked down to them, and explained everything. Oh my, just WAIT for the arguing that will entitle them to once they reach their teenage years. I have a very hard time teaching my child to respect me or any authority. You have to be okay with your child sometimes hating you.

They are still kids, making dumb choices, but they think they no longer need a parent at about 13/14 if it's a girl. They say it's 15-17 for guys. And boy do they need a parent even more so. I can't tell you the crap my daughter got herself into in 3 very short months. And the same with me as a teenager. We are smart and sneaky, btw. And it will probably sting when your smart child falls for the biggest loser she think she can "save." She will see the best in everybody (too much) and it might blow your mind a little bit. Especially as an INFJ mother.

Just give up your job so you can stare at them 24/7 once they become teenagers. They. need. you. Even though they will hate you. Also, get a prescription. A really nice anti-depressant. The things they will say to you will feel like daggers to your soul.

If I could do it all again, I wouldn't let any disrespect slip for a moment. I still wouldn't control her. That isn't in my nature. But we all have to abide by rules. That is the society we live in whether we agree with it or not. It is my job to get her to respect rules so that she doesn't end up in prison when she is older.

Don't be frightened by the dark side of the ENFP (and it can get mighty dark in teen years discovering the Fi). But anything that has psychology in it is the best. My daughter went inpatient for a while. And now I've put her in 12-step programs. She loves it. ENFPs need to share their deep dark side. They get very emo. And all it takes is honoring their pain.

Put them in groups (the more hardcore the better) and individual therapy. They want an environment where they are not judged and they can shout out all their pain and anger. They also should find some sort of creativity that helps them feel good about themselves and channel their pain. ENFPs can really hurt themselves when they first start feeling pain. They don't make the connections right. It will be weird when you see this as a mother. You might think "doesn't she see how much she is hurting herself?" And the answer is "Nope." Probably not for a long time.

God, I'm lucky my daughter didn't die from this summer. It's like ENFPs have some sort of guiding angels on their shoulder.

But honestly, they are sooooo beautiful when they come out of it. But you just gotta let them fall into their own pain first, and use a lot of support services to help them climb out. Make sure the support services feel like it's "their thing" and not something you've pushed onto them. Let them select it. Be skillful exposing it to them. They really do take to psychology like a fish to water. And they need to experience it first hand. But they have to feel like it's something that is theirs and very separate from you.

They can't feel like they are doing it for you.

I can't believe my daughter right now. She is so different since I put her away for a bit. Lol. It sort validated her pain. She feels like she went through something. She is receiving. And I can see how it's soon going to be channeled into giving. The ENFPs fill up and then they give. It's a beautiful process but it can be so hard to watch. Just think "butterfly struggling in a cocoon." when you have to. :wink:
 
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