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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Type 4 Sp

Ignoring basic survival needs in order to follow a dream. Here the desire for a way of life can become so compelling the dauntless four will throw caution to the wind in a high stakes approach to making that life materialize.

Survival is marked by a reckless urgency to obtain those things that promise satisfaction. An internal process often.

Envy dissolves in luxury, relaxes in meaningful conversation or the satisfaction of suffering boldly.

Recreate the possibility of loss through reckless action or emotional involvement.

Excitement of playing the edge of disaster.

Wedged between hope and despair, why not just go for it, I can handle this.

The high level of excitement of the "on the edge" crisis is almost like an addiction and always ensures the depressive swing down the melancholia.

The dauntless character has a certain suicidal edge, an abandonment of fate.

Take chances to stir up emotional intensity, play out melodrama or to get attention.

Consolation prizes "I deserve this for my suffering"

Two kinds; risk taking and prize seeking.

Can seem like counterphobic 6's in their behavior.

With a three wing can be more flamboyant and make a show of their daring or tenancity. "I will endure, just watch me!"

With a five wing can be more sullen and self punishing "I bear my solitude with fortitude and resolve, but oh how I suffer".

Recklessness and dauntlessness in the four often lead to victim situations and crisis. This style can have numerous manifestations, chronic joblessness, homes burning to the ground, tumultuous relationships, large ebb and flow of money, career changes, ascetic spiritual practices, rigorous physical activity, etc.

If the four becomes dissatisfied with the dream once it is obtained there will be a tendency to wreak the basis of the security in order for it to be missed and so it can seem desirable again. Fortunes are made and lost, and made again as interest come and go. Can go for relationships or spiritual practices that can be abandoned and re-sparked when depression, loneliness or spiritual emptiness hits.

Focuses intently on creative work or causes.

Likes to point out angles others haven't thought of.

Often takes offense when people assume they know what the self pres 4 are thinking or feeling.

"My fate is so awful I might as well make it worse"

Dauntless (no matter what)-self contained, self defeating, autonomous, fiercely independent, denial of envy (doesn't play the victim, can seem 8ish in this steely resolve).

Can be self punishing. 1ish persistence. Practically minded, with a sudden shift toward luxury and decadence.

I'll make myself do this. I must endure.

Afraid of being hurt. Glued through the eyes, hanging on through the gaze.

Wide eyed "Betty Davis eyes"..

Counter-dependency, "I don't need you, I don't need anyone" 3ish resolve.

Tenacious striving. Grasping for what is missing, running toward the ideal at all costs.

Desire for emotional intensity interferes with basic needs. Risk for emotional intensity. Comfort, textures, fragrances, mood lighting. Romantic lifestyle at the risk of security. Aesthetically beautiful womb like home. I owe i to myself. lavish, "who cares", Bad habits compensate for what the four feels is lacking. Craving rich foods, luxury, drugs, alcohol. Excess eating, expensive dinners, watching movies all night. Costly redecorating schemes.

"I'll make myself feel better"

Alternating responsibility and irresponsibility of practical life.

The most significant thing about the Self pres 4 was their identification with being self-contained, counter dependent, and self devouring. Rather than just criticizing themselves, they tore themselves apart, explaining that they weren't striving to improve themselves like the One. Instead the need is to preserve something that was concretely beautiful that they could manifest materially or concretely. Something to show for their suffering; art, music, etc. Many were fine artists or craft people, and while others still admired these concrete works. The self Pres 4 would know every flaw they had made and still feel inadequate. Ultimately fearing that whatever they created will be inherently flawed, so the must keep striving.

The attention can go to the essential needs in relationship to image. For example, what is the temperature of the room, will I be too hot and perspire, should I loosen my belt to be more comfortable. This lighting is harsh, and puts me in a bad mood. I should close the windows that noise is distracting. I can't concentrate with all this ugly stuff around me.

Type 4 Sx

Establishes self esteem through comparison with others.

Competition is an invigorating energy that cuts through depression and ruminating about loss. It's an "I'll Show You" rush of energy.

Competition is focused in two ways by competing for approval and through rivalry with people who claim recognition or attention you want for yourself.

Compete because of the need to be worthy in the eyes of a desirable person.

With a mate are prone to jealous heat.

Want to be the most important person in mates life.

In a 1 to 1 relationship, competition is acted out through controlled seduction and rejection. May seduce only to drop later.

Being the first to reject forestalls the expectation of abandonment.

The successful seduction serves as proof that they are equal or superior to the desired person.

Rejecting partners however opens the for to envy if the partner finds another mate.

The sexual subtype usually does not compete with friends, but can be highly adversarial to people in the same field or a rejecting mate.

In non sexual relationships, this gets played out as "wanting the respect of the best people"

Plebs don't matter when you have the attention of royalty.

Low self esteem is kept at bay by courting people of worth (subjectively decided by the 4).

Competitive 4's are as aggressive as 3's in going after what they want, but the envy motive causes them to focus on heavily slamming competitors as the goal itself. 8 like.

Can be consumed with professional envy. Long to best others in their work.

Petty about keeping score.

There is a need to reduce the worth of those who have not been deprived by exposing their faults.

Want recognition for their uniqueness.

Take away the success of others when threatened.

Envy people who seem happier, more fulfilled, or more interesting than they are, particular those whose assets are similar to theirs.

Longs for or has longed for a soul mate to come along and rescue them from an ordinary life.

Frequently engages in push pull. Creating drama and pain, keeps renewing the distance they want gives them the feeling they are in control.

Competition (compulsive comparing of self and others)-although admittance of this is kept under wraps.

Can be counter-envious.

Over involved-eyes go out to what else is missing "I want that too", Arrogant and demanding. Feelings of rottenness transformed into beauty. The misunderstood genius. "I answer only to God". No authority is worthy to control me.

8ish, a rare type can appear more 8 than 8. Self confident. Claims position, has angry envy, diminishes other to make self bigger and prove one right. 8 like intensities, over steps boundaries. Cannibalistic, "I deserve it", knows their own worth.

Infatuation. Envy clearly visible but often denied. Longing to have desirable other. Could be the one. Looking and longing for the one. Hate rival. I've got to get rid of the competition. Accomplishments acceptable to others, "Look at the greatness of my creation". Frustrated by others who achieve. "I attract through my uniqueness"

Seductive, sexual, sensual.

Idealizing other then rejecting them.

"How dare you have other friends"

Enchanted/disenchanted.

Admiration, longing, hatred.

Burning desire.

Misery loves company.

Others deserve to loose.

Mysterious, hard to get, uninterested, arrogant and aloof.

"The sexual 4 felt under represent in the literature on 4's. Most of them in some way felt outwardly very confident. They still identified with the dichotomy of dropping downward and feeling inadequate. They described having a passion for protest but explained that it was an internal angry envy expresses outwardly, covering a hidden fear of losing that which they desired. They hated anyone or anything that triggered feelings of inadequacy or envy, however, the deeper meaning was that they would rather have your hatred is it showed that you still cared and they could still affect you rather than to have your indifference. The sexual 4 also added that the high side of entitlement was their acceptance and support of everyone's unalienable right to express their individuality and needs.

Need to recreate loss for the intensity of the feeling.

Angry outbursts, suffering artist.

Artistic bravado and arrogance.

Type 4 So

Shame in not measuring up to group standards.

The feeling that one's own worth is not equal to the expectations of others.

A sense of not meeting the standards of what others are capable of meeting, of an inner defectiveness of being that will eventually be seen and lead to rejection.

Can be highly self critical and feel ashamed of their deviance from imagined group norms.

Want to hide away from probing eyes, to eliminate social encounters that might bring deficiency to light.

Develop an unusual sensitivity to social slights and a parallel desire for recognition.

Feelings of envy arise in comparing self to others.

Sensitive to criticism.

Terror of rejection, of having the fatal flaw detected.

May romanticize defects but feel bad about themselves anyway.

Feel misunderstood.

Believe they are despised by others and fear that others might be able to read their thoughts and feelings and condemn them because of this.

Afraid their outward appearance will be rejected.

Image is heightened as a protective measure; elite memberships, a unique social presentation, looking attractive and somewhat aloof, above the common crowd.

Feelings of low self esteem, often based on actual losses in the past, perpetuate the illusion that other people posses what is missing.

They cannot live up to their own high standards, perpetuating shame.

Will attack themselves looking for the fatal flaw, the defective quality of being. Fiercely protective of their negative differences.

With a 3 wing may cover shame with charm and an flashy image.

With a five wing will grow anti-social and depressed, bearing their shame in solitude.

Dies over each mistake or social faux pas they make.

Often feels inadequate socially and either pours on charm or blends into the woodwork.

Always analyzing themselves; "Did I make myself understood", "Did I sound Stupid?", "Was I too aggressive?", "Was I too conciliatory"

Needs to be missed.

Hypersensitivity. Desire to be among the elite combined with doubts about being up to it. Cultured. Refined. Need to be seen as desired. Lofty image. Rejecting one's qualities. Fantasies of being royal. Class shame. Can't function like "normal people".

Defends defects, yet feels disadvantaged.

Don't know how to be part of the social world.

Seeks achievement and attention to make up for flaws "they won't make fun of me now". Even evident in the 5 wing.

Attraction to deviant behavior when unhealthy.

Anti social in lower levels of health.

Misanthropic.

Easily withdraws to lick wounds.

The social 4 felt that their shame was hidden because it pertained to a way in which or where they were reared. They felt they were always trying to be socially one level above where they felt they truly belonged. When they finally achieved the level they had longed for it was still not enough, so they had to strive to be at the next level, and so on. They described a never ending pressure to be more while still feeling they were inadequate, and a fear that someone would discover their humble beginnings.

Social situations are a dance between being charming or shameful.

Feelings of low self esteem-"God didn't give me what others have"

Drive to achieve-when people start to give up on me I can really come through and seek revenge.

Wants to be honored for specialness. Intense shame at desiring and seeking attention.

Attempts to seek attention are quickly countered with withdraw. "Oh, God they know I need attention, how shameful!"

Can appear like 1's, but with a decisively more shameful and self loathing bent. "I am so screwed up, I must hide this, but I want you to know how wrong I am too, but respect this as a special and noble quality".

Wounded healer quality much like the self pres 4.

Diplomatic, charming, and quite articulate. Anger is displayed through hateful withdraw and biting sarcasm or wit.


(Source)
 

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Waahhhh!! :(

This is making me really rethink whether I'm a 4 or 6. Ever since I discovered the enneagram, I've always related very much to the description of so 4's moreso than any other instinctual description and this thread solidifies it even more. The absolute thing that I 100% agree with is the "Dies over each mistake or social faux pas they make" bit. That has pretty much been me ever since I can remember. Worst of all, I resonate much more with the sx 4 description than the sp 4 description and I don't want to be any type of sx. :(
 

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Never come across an sp description that described them as adrenaline junkies or loving risks.
All of the descriptions I've found on the sp 4 state that they strive towards building a safe, comfortable environment. It was mentioned in the description above, but it was immediately followed by a contrast.

Am I right or am I ill informed?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Never come across an sp description that described them as adrenaline junkies or loving risks.
All of the descriptions I've found on the sp 4 state that they strive towards building a safe, comfortable environment. It was mentioned in the description above, but it was immediately followed by a contrast.

Am I right or am I ill informed?
Ill informed. Sp 4s are called the dauntless. There are basically two versions of this, one describing Sp 4s are tenacious, stoic, and the ones who suffer in silence. Most descriptions though, emphasize the recklessness of Sp 4s.

Type 4 Enneagram Type Description |9types.com

Descriptions of the Enneagram Instinctual Variants

Subtypes | Enneagram Worldwide

Enneagram Central - Subtype Four Self Preservation
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Waahhhh!! :(

This is making me really rethink whether I'm a 4 or 6. Ever since I discovered the enneagram, I've always related very much to the description of so 4's moreso than any other instinctual description and this thread solidifies it even more. The absolute thing that I 100% agree with is the "Dies over each mistake or social faux pas they make" bit. That has pretty much been me ever since I can remember. Worst of all, I resonate much more with the sx 4 description than the sp 4 description and I don't want to be any type of sx. :(
Descriptions are merely that, descriptions. You might relate to it completely, but if you don't have the underlying motivations and basic fears/desires of Fours, you're probably another type. Any person can "dies over each mistake or social faux pas they make" if you think about it, 1s do this as well (this is why some Sp 4s can resemble 1s).

It's not about which type you want to be, but what type you are.
 

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Ill informed. Sp 4s are called the dauntless. There are basically two versions of this, one describing Sp 4s are tenacious, stoic, and the ones who suffer in silence. Most descriptions though, emphasize the recklessness of Sp 4s.

Type 4 Enneagram Type Description |9types.com

Descriptions of the Enneagram Instinctual Variants

Subtypes | Enneagram Worldwide

Enneagram Central - Subtype Four Self Preservation
Thank you so much. Thanks to you I was able to uncover new truths about myself as well as updating the old ones.
 

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I read non-type specific instinct descriptions and I conclude I'm unequivocally a sexual dom, with a faint social second. My motivations are sexual ones, with a hint of a social focus. (After oscillating between sp/sx and sx/sp for a long while now with neither ever feeling quite right.) But I read the OP descriptions and so/sx seems more likely; the social resonates pretty hard.

So... does being a 4w5 just make you seem less socially focused, even if you are? I spend a lot of time alone or with intimates but when I'm in social situations and something occurs which triggers shame (typically the, "So what do you do?" question) I feel it to hiding in a cave levels.
 

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I don't think the social variant has anything to do with being outgoing or being "on" socially although it may seem that way. The social variant is just someone who is sensitive to what other people are doing and group hierarchy. Even though I don't think the Fauves are a paradigm in terms of Enneangram information I agree with their thoughts on variants. It's said that social 5's for instance even though they detach are very focused on groups and who is in their groups. For instance there was a social 5 who knew everyone's name in his classes and knew what they did and followed the groups dynamics. That's what the social variant is, just keeping track of people and feeling more comfortable among a herd. Ideally the social instinct would want to be important and high ranking in the group order, but predominantly it's just about feeling safe within a herd, and with their groups of people. Social types rely on groups in order to gain information and to survive.
 

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Actually the sp instinct from what I've read has that security basic needs wants but in the unhealthier instinct in the four can lead to risk taking behaviour and using numbing and escapist behaviour like drug use etc. I definitely see both in me. In my younger days I used to be really into being wreckless and definitely entered into the drug world but didn't go too far thankfully (and don't think I would have anyway- must be my 5 wing yay! :) but as I have become healthier I can still feel the pull of that crazy risk-taking side of me. I always have had two sides to me but they are very much a part of me. One side is doing the high risk chasing the dream (and doing it well) and the other side is fuck it, if we're gonna have fun we better do it right. I read a quote once:

You are either in or out in life. There is no in between...can't remember who said it. But I guess I do everything all out, or not at all. Maybe I have backwards rationalized that. Regardless, I like that I have that side to me because it keeps things interesting. The world is my playground!

But I gotta say...as you can see by what I have typed. The SP description of fours gives us a pretty bad name...it pretty much describes an average at best four and leans more towards the unhealthy side. I don't want to sound condescending (and I'm sure I don't since you probably didn't even write that stuff- just checked and you didnt :p) but I think that as 4's move closer to 1, a lot of the more negative attributes dissolute...or the energy is transferred into growth and positive practises. I do see parts of some of those statements in myself as a type 4 dominant SP/SX aux instinct, but it seems like a lot of the stuff mentioned is attention seeking. I know that I naturally would like attention and people to feel sorry for me because thats how I was when I was young. Now I think that kind of behaviour is gross in myself because its playing a total victim card and I don't want to act like that.

I was just thinking today that two actions can look the exact same, but it is the intention that goes behind it that is most important. If a thought arises in you coming from the wrong place and you take action on it with that intention, you are reinforcing that part of yourself. If it doesn't come from the right place (e.g. attention seeking) and you perform that action, it will sink you deeper into your victim role. If you consciously choose to do it because you want to and value yourself (e.g. from a place of being deserving) then it makes all the difference. The crazy part about is how subtle the difference is. You have to be able to catch yourself in the moment before you take action and say "why am I doing this?" or "why am I acting like this?"...then if you realize you are acting like a little child you have to be like "wow, I'm better than that. Where is this coming from? I need to pay more attention to my experience."

Usually once you lose touch with your core this type of behaviour comes up. You have to reinvest each day or one day you are just like wtf happened. Oh crap should've paid more attention...I mean its always still important to be compassionate and gentle with yourself. You'll catch yourself faster next time ;) At least thats what I tell myself! :p


Wow, I just go on these rants...I get so excited about the mind and life. Please excuse me *hopes noone notices and slowly exits*
 

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That's what the social variant is, just keeping track of people and feeling more comfortable among a herd. Ideally the social instinct would want to be important and high ranking in the group order, but predominantly it's just about feeling safe within a herd, and with their groups of people. Social types rely on groups in order to gain information and to survive.
I don't know if I agree that it means feeling more comfortable around a herd quite as much as feeling connected to the herd, like it or not. And yes, being shunned/dropped by the herd is a scary prospect. The herd, I'd like to add, I think can be something as small as your immediate family or close friends, or those who share your interests. For example, if I am a so/sx, I could give a crap what "the world" thinks about me, but those I care about and those I respect (or those I think I should be on par with or better than), the need for esteem is more than I'd like to admit.

I really like this excerpt from the ocean moonshine descriptions about the social four conundrum:

The social instinct tends to give the personality a focus on being included, fitting in, or finding a way to make a valued contribution. This agenda conflicts with the Four's sense of being "different from" or "other than." The Four's need to establish a separate identity conflicts with the social instinct's drive towards inclusion. The social Four often deals with this dilemma by defining themselves as being outside the social system. By defining themselves always in terms of the system, even if it is to establish distance, this Four stays essentially tied to it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
@brainheart

Couldn't have said it better. A common misconception is that social Fours want to constantly be connected to others, while really they tend to establish their identity through how separate and different they are from the group. For them, it's not so much whether or not they are involved, but the fact that they're still somehow tied to the group even when they separate from it.
 

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I don't know if I agree that it means feeling more comfortable around a herd quite as much as feeling connected to the herd, like it or not.
This sounds Sp/So to me. The idea of the herd being an obligation or shackle that someone needs to have around and doesn't enjoy or is forced into doesn't sound like a dominant social variant to me. Social variants like the group and like being around people because it makes them feel safe and valued. 5's are said to be true outsiders of the Enneangram due to the intensity of the withdrawing, however even social 5's seem to see the group as generally a good thing that can provide comfort and safety for them. The variants are more or less comfort zones that a person feels most at home with when they feel exposed, scared or vulnerable. I would classify a social variant type as someone who is sensitive to group agenda's. For instance a person who knows they are in the "red zone" if they go into a neighborhood with a gang that isn't friendly to "their kind of people" and knows that they will be safe once they hit "their territory" because their group will protect them from the other group. I would say that is the aspect of the social variant. Not that a person feels hindered or limited by the group. They want to be apart of the group because the group makes them feel better and safer then if they were on their own. At least that's my perspective on it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
@Arrow

I completely disagree. Your primary instinct is absolutely NOT the one you feel most comfortable in. This is a common mistake people make, which causes them to feel like they absolutely can't be social primary because they hate social situations for example. It's not about what you feel most comfortable in, but what preoccupies you more. An Sp first will feel more anxiety and worry in things related to security, health, stability, safety. People who are scared of social situations, of not being able to fit in and belong, are So-first, because the focus of their attention and anxiety is related to social issues.

I will use @brainheart's quote again, because it is very fitting.

The social instinct tends to give the personality a focus on being included, fitting in, or finding a way to make a valued contribution. This agenda conflicts with the Four's sense of being "different from" or "other than." The Four's need to establish a separate identity conflicts with the social instinct's drive towards inclusion. The social Four often deals with this dilemma by defining themselves as being outside the social system. By defining themselves always in terms of the system, even if it is to establish distance, this Four stays essentially tied to it.
It's not about liking the group or feeling like you fit in, it can be about the opposite; more withdrawn types like 4s and 5s can convince themselves that they're better off outside of the group and can even isolate themselves for long periods of time. They can be mistaken for Social last because of this; but what matters is that they're still connected to the group in their thoughts and worries. Even defining yourself outside of the group, because you're defining yourself IN TERMS of the group, means you're tied to it, and therefore Social first.
 

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@Arrow

I completely disagree. Your primary instinct is absolutely NOT the one you feel most comfortable in.
I disagree. The variant instinct is tied in to what makes you feel the most safe from danger that is basically what the core instinct is.

Sp instincts guard themselves against anything that can impede themselves from functioning well by having all of their needs met, they get very upset if they don't have the things they feel they need to succeed like time, resources, money, food, etc. and that causes them to worry and panic because they are guided by what is not there that they need for themselves.

It's the same thing with the social instinct, I never said that the social instinct is being a highly sociable however a person who has a social instinct will definitely not feel that being in a group is a bad thing. Again the Social instinct feels safe in the group because they believe there will be safety in numbers and that will protect them from outside danger and the destruction of themselves.

It's the same idea that groups will help the survival of the social instinct person because other people will promote the survival of their core group. It's the same thing as tribes wanting to know where water is or passing on information in a pack and making sure everyone in the group is fed from hunting and gathering, isn't eating poisonous foods and is promoting each generation with knowledge and protection to sustain itself. The Social instinct persons will not dislike the group because they see their survival as chained to the group and they see it as a benefit to them.

I am not talking about being the life of the party, being highly sociable or anything like that, I am talking about the variant person feeling that the group is viable and wanting to be apart of that group because again the social variant sees the group as intrinsic to their survival and safety as a person. It's the group system and not going off alone by yourself. They would not want to be ostracized from that group. Not liking or not wanting to be apart of that group or feeling obligated to that group and not wanting to be apart of it doesn't sound like a core/predominant Social variant at play because separation and being alone would be against the social variants agenda. The thing that weighs on the line of the social variant is am I apart of a group? That is the first and primary focus, then it becomes where am I in the social group? And then it becomes am I an important part of the group so that my position is valued and am I cared for so that when I go missing someone will notice. These are aspects of the social group. It's not do I party hard, am I extroverted enough or any of those things (I don't believe I ever said it was), but it is about feeling apart of the group and wanting to be valued in the group.

If none of those things is leading in the person then it sounds like something else is leading the variant. Sp builds walls up against the social and will be more prone to add difference and seperation from the core group while the Sx variant will be more prone to finding special, deeper, vaster energy sources then the social group because it wants something personal and for itself to merge with and it will do anything to find that including disengage with the group to find that energy that is outside of themselves. But for core social variants the group is everything, it's a good thing and they definitely want to be apart of the group. If you don't want to be apart of the group I would say that's not the social variant in play, at least a leading one.
 

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I've been thinking about this post for a long time now.

I knew a woman who fit that sp description perfectly, but I see the places where we diverge. As impossible as this seems to me, I could actually be so/sx or sx/so. I say "impossible", because I am not a social person and I never have been.

But diving in to explore the reasons behind my general aversion to groups has me hitting numerous points on that list. The sting of recognition? I don't get that when I read the sp list ... I get it with the sx and so. And I find that extremely telling. I think I responded to my social instinct by pulling away.

Interesting...



EDIT: Thinking about this even further... although the sx description is more like me now, the so description sounds eerily like me as a little girl.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
@StellarTwirl

The So instinct isn't necessarily about being social :wink: If you read furtheR down the discussion, several posts explain that for 4s and 5s, being an So dominant doesn't have to be about being very socially involved, as long as the focus of your attention is on others - even if the nature of the attention is negative, anxious, or just preoccupied.

If you want to figure out whether you are Sx/So or So/Sx, I think you should try to notice which instinct serves the other. I'm an Sx/So - so I use my social skills, my ability to move effortlessly from person to person, to easily get into groups, so I can finally lock onto the few individuals that catch my attention. Once I do, I forget all about the group.

So/Sx sounds a lot like me in high school, I really really wanted to be part of a group of friends, and yet constantly felt left out, excluded.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
@Arrow

You wrote a very long post in which you rehashed the same idea over and over. We are both saying the same thing; preoccupation with a group means that your social instinct is the dominant one. Preoccupation can imply constant focus, just as much as it can imply being the main source of anxiety in times of stress.

I agree with you, that the core instinct is the one that can make you feel safe in times of danger, but in terms of BEHAVIOR, it doesn't necessarily correlate to acting like you are part of a group. This can translate into isolating and separating yourself from a group to preserve your identity, like a social Four's case.

Not liking or not wanting to be apart of that group or feeling obligated to that group and not wanting to be apart of it doesn't sound like a core/predominant Social variant at play because separation and being alone would be against the social variants agenda. The thing that weighs on the line of the social variant is am I apart of a group? That is the first and primary focus, then it becomes where am I in the social group?
A person can be separate from a group and still be a So dominant. A person's identity if defined as SEPARATE from the group still implies defining oneself in terms of the group. Enneagram type, MBTI type, and personality/individual differences all play a role in how this manifests in terms of behavior (isolation vs inclusion). I've made my point, let's agree to disagree.
 
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