Personality Cafe banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
695 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Integration (Two goes to healthy Four)Integrating Twos become aware of how much they have denied their needs and their darker feelings-and how much they have deceived themselves about their motives. At Four, they begin to accept themselves more completely-not rejecting any aspect of themselves they find. Even their destructive feelings toward others can be held compassionately. They are more honest with themselves (after the manner of a healthy Four) and discover humor and humanity in whatever feelings and impulses they have. This gives Twos the ability to see themselves objectively and without shame-and with love and balance. They are also able to support others from the fullness of who they really are and to have greater intimacy with them because integrating Twos are more intimate with themselves. Gradually and naturally, they become more authentic, expressive, sensitive, and creative in ways that are enriching to themselves and others.
I've been trying to learn more about Enneagram Theory, especially with regard to the types I feel are my core/fixes. This description really intrigued me.

What exactly is "Integration"? Is it another facet of the healthiest state of the different types? Or is it the healthiest state?

Have any of you experienced the above description, especially the bolded section? I would appreciate it greatly if you could elaborate on your encounter(s) with it and perhaps your advice for achieving it.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
600 Posts
I believe I am integrating to 4. :proud: I'm the happiest I've ever been thanks to escaping a very long depression and having found something that I've always felt was missing from my life; more love than I could ever hope for.

It's not something constant for me, perhaps because of my 6 fix that tends to get in the way and have me worry over the dumbest things; but more often than not, it's precisely what that quote describes.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
600 Posts
@stephiphi, I'm afraid I could talk about this all day and still not be able to clearly explain the "how" part of it. I'm going to say that right now, I feel... human. Flawed. In a good way. It's truly alright for me to feel this way. I cannot be there for everyone and help everyone I want to and I'm finally beginning to accept that (not easily, but still!). But I am there for the ones that truly matter to me because now I am strong enough to be able to be there!

I think the road to this started after heavy introspection that essentially ended my depression after a suicide attempt back in October 2011. I felt I was as pathetic as I could be. I literally had nothing left to lose anymore, so I said "Well, might as well start climbing back up and see how far I can go". I suppose I learned to fight for my happiness through this and stop thinking it would be handed out to me just because "I'm a good person and deserve better".

That said, I really hope that other 2s don't need to go through that hell to realize the same thing I did. =P
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
695 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
You know, I was talking with a friend about this the other day and it's almost as simple as rediscovering our greatest blind spot as Enneagram type 2's. We forget that we can't help anyone else if we are all jumbled up in the first place.

It's like airplane safety oxygen masks - put yours on before assisting others.

The problem half the time is that I don't know what to do with my problems! They often arise in the form of bad feelings, or feelings which I deem bad or shameful, and I naturally opt to stuff them in and out of sight. This description of Integration seems like an invitation to take those feelings and accept them as natural and real and okay - somehow.

I'd still like to gain a better understanding of what Integration is, but the knowledge of its existence alone has freed me, if only slightly.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
600 Posts
@stephiphi, in addition to your last post something that perhaps affects this to an extent is the order of the instinctual variants. I have noticed that many 2s tend to have the self preservation instinct last in preference and this thread (credits to @Swordsman of Mana) seems to back up my impression to a certain extent.

I'm going to assume that a 2 with strong self preservation can tackle with this issue much more smoothly than the "average" 2 (which based on the descriptions seems to be more of a so/sx or so/sp), but I have nothing to support my claim, just my own ideas.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
456 Posts
Overflow said:
I'm going to assume that a 2 with strong self preservation can tackle with this issue much more smoothly than the "average" 2 (which based on the descriptions seems to be more of a so/sx or so/sp), but I have nothing to support my claim, just my own ideas.
I'd say that's a pretty accurate assumption actually. I've always been big on making sure my life is in order before tackling other people's problems. Mostly for image related reasons tho. I cannot bear to be caught being a hypocrite.

Integration to 4 isn't too far away for me I'd say, already I'm pretty much at peace with myself and what *I* can do, but I'm not quite there yet, my sensitivity to unwarranted criticism still is difficult to handle at times. I work very hard to present myself as a patient, tolerant person but when I get people thinking I'm anything but simply because of a misunderstanding, it can set me back for a week. x_x;
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
600 Posts
@Sayonara, as far as I know, the variant second in order "serves" the first one. So for an sx/sp like me, it's something like "I have to take care of my own needs to be able to connect with someone, but the ultimate goal is the connection". That said, my sp is really low (only slightly higher than my barely existent so), so I pay attention the absolute minimum of my needs and I often miscalculate and find that I have failed to take care of them properly!

I'm glad to know integration isn't too far away. Keep in mind though; 2s belong to the image triad and like 3s and 4s, they have a persona. It's important to learn to detach from that persona at times (that part you mentioned about appearing patient and tolerable) and learn to tell what our persona is and what lies beneath it all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
695 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
@Overflow
Interesting thought! I agree with you. I believe my first variant is self-preservation, so I do take care of myself or at least try to. Lately, my lack of acceptance of my "bad" feelings has led to annoying amounts of complacency and laziness. I just stuff it under the rug and do little to help anyone else because I know that I'm not feeling my best - this acceptance of those feelings is the first method I've realized could conquer that complacency, though, and for that I am grateful.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
600 Posts
.. do little to help anyone else because I know that I'm not feeling my best...
Ah, this part is such a pain in the ass, I know. ._. The problem I used to face is that I didn't want to admit that I'm in no position to help anyone else and told myself instead "I'll be fine, I shouldn't focus on myself right now, someone needs me!".

I'll somewhat guiltily admit that I still stuff issues under the rug, but I know the rug's limits by now and I "take a break" from helping when it reaches its limit before I explode. xD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Hi guys, this is very very useful.. i read so much about what my motivations are and i have a internal frustration of not wanting to hurt or say and things, yet also feel i have the right to be heard and i have my own needs too. Also the "nice wanting to help person" is easily taken advantage, this i am really struggling to see if my feel that something is wrong, if its is paranoia or genuine. I feel i am being used (by a 6) so, i dont want to make her feel more insecure, i feel i want to be caring, yet I want to distance my self and think it through. This i have tried, which produces a 6 that clings even harder and abusive. And to top it all, im not sure if my "ability to read between the lines" is working overtime, my negative thought as wrong or im right. That all just popped in my head, any ideas are welcome.

What i really wanted to ask is there a guide of activities, actions, step by step to go to a 4 in my case. And for helping people, a guide that works on ""how each type should be treated that helps them become healthy. Im working it out slowly, but if there is a guide, i can use it, if there is not, we should come together and make one. Can you imagine a world in which people have a guide how to treat others, that makes them feel happiness and ultimate leads to others being able to help them self. Sure that is real helping.
 

·
Queen of Hearts
Joined
·
17,935 Posts
:shocked: something from the 2 subforum was on the main page!
totally new experience




Anyhow, I don't have ideas...personally I don't even really associate 4 with my healthiest self...sorry :((

I'm not sure if I entirely understand your situation but...Sixes can be really difficult to deal with if they're unhealthy or start suspecting something/projecting...I think having a really clear conversation can help things. Saying exactly what you want, what you intend, etc. and properly negotiating.

But no...I don't think there's a step-by-step. I think with everything, though, being in a healthier place all over will help you integrate. Including physical health and general comfort in a situation or at least having an area where you're comfortable. Try to recall what makes you feel your best and try to replicate that. For me it is often throwing myself into a project.
 

·
Heretic
ESI 9w8 5w4 2w1
Joined
·
10,672 Posts
In theory one never becomes ones integration point.
It may feel like it at certain points, especially when one is in an integrative phase.
The positive sides of 4s are traits they hold with ease as they don't have a hangup in that area.
One may seem to become more like a 4 when integrating as one embrace those areas.
Embracing those areas doesn't make one a 4 as one still is very much a 2.
The proof lies in when one expends the energy invested in integration and one fall back into disintegration.
Then the type 2 negative patterns reassert themself.
If one had become a type 4 one would instead have type 4 negative patterns.
In that way the connection to 4 is merely symbolic.
One can be inspired by their ability to take care of their own needs,
but one doesn't transform into one by doing so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Hi, 2w3 female here. :) I think integration started when I broke up with my first boyfriend. That was the time when I really started to 'delve' into myself, if that makes sense. I started rationalising and analysing things e.g. why we didn't work out, the pros and cons about him, why I reacted the way I did, and etc. And that made me realise that I COULD analyse that much and not just DO things (I'm ISFP so...I always find myself doing something). I started to think about why people behaved they did when something happened to me and found that I could, although not easily, separate feelings from fact. I COULD communicate my fears or concerns. I COULD say no. I ENJOYED thinking about human life, the reason for being. I COULD do things that I thought I couldn't - that I didn't dare to before. And I did all of that. And with that came a sense of relief, liberation, and just...well, self-acceptance, I suppose, of my other flaws as well. This helped me become more accepting of other people's flaws as well and not take things too personally when I get snapped/nagged at. We are who we are.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top