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Discussion Starter #1
Every so often we woman INTJs discuss why we do or do not want children. We have a thread on the front page of our forum now.

I'm curious about the INTJ men though. Do you want children? Why or why not?
 

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If my circumstances were such that having a child was wise, or of course an oops baby, I would happily pursue it and view the role of father as one to be cherished. Parenting is an amazing responsibility but one with great potential rewards.

I don't necessarily think that I will pursue those circumstances, I need to meet someone who makes it seem like a good idea.
 

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It has to do with life values. I want knowledge/discovery/invention in life. Part of that process entails building interesting crap ontop reality in order to test said theories. I count mental fulfillment as top priority for having complete this process. As for spiritual fulfillment, I recognized early on that this facet is too heavily burdened by the practicalities of life so I pose the following line of reasoning:

Marriage and children are giant time sinks that may detract from mental fulfillment but add to spiritual fulfillment. The two are not orthogonal and they will definitely chip away at each other. Furthermore, the love of learning is indefinite whereas the love of a person is constrained. Given the choice between the world or a single person, I choose the world.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
@nonnaci , for some reason I sort of stopped at "spiritual fulfillment." I have never really thought of having children as a spiritual experience but rather a biological chore that many desire to accomplish. You're right though, providing, supporting, mentoring a child takes deep love. Something I am not sure I am truly capable of yet.
 

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Actively persued it, did not work out, kills me..

Other plans now, mean it is unlikely. If I persue it again success is so slim as to be non existent. Am adjusting to this.

ALWAYS wanted kids.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Actively persued it, did not work out, kills me..

Other plans now, mean it is unlikely. If I persue it again success is so slim as to be non existent. Am adjusting to this.

ALWAYS wanted kids.
Aw man, that's really unfortunate. I am incredibly curious as to which avenues failed to yield you an offspring but I do not want to add salt to that wound. I'm really sorry.
 

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@nonnaci , for some reason I sort of stopped at "spiritual fulfillment." I have never really thought of having children as a spiritual experience but rather a biological chore that many desire to accomplish. You're right though, providing, supporting, mentoring a child takes deep love. Something I am not sure I am truly capable of yet.
For gals, there's a maternal instinct tied to Oxycontin. For guys, the paternal instinct is debatable as many are likely to screw around with lots of women before settling on "the one". I don't know what causes the initial attachment between father and his children but I suspect its first linked with chemicals from the mother before migrating to the child.

Outside the male biological sphere, the spiritual fulfillment is a whole different axis worth exploring.
 

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Aw man, that's really unfortunate. I am incredibly curious as to which avenues failed to yield you an offspring but I do not want to add salt to that wound. I'm really sorry.
No problem. But it's a public forum.. So...

Chemo kills all sorts of stuff. Storage facilitys only prove so useful. The world turns. Shit happens and the sea is full of salt.

"Maybe one day soon you'll see your name in lights singing Johnny B. Goode tonight tonight!"
 

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I would be absolutely, out-of-body elated to have children. I love kids and think it would be a great opportunity, biological or adopted.

What I am not willing to compromise on is having a great marriage to raise kids within the confines of.

So, one thing before the other, I refuse to put step 3 in front of step 2. It is a dream of mine, but I would rather never have it be than have it not be right.



On a technical note, oxytocin jumps way up in the father following the birth of their children as well. So the bond is mutual.
 

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For gals, there's a maternal instinct tied to Oxycontin. For guys, the paternal instinct is debatable as many are likely to screw around with lots of women before settling on "the one". I don't know what causes the initial attachment between father and his children but I suspect its first linked with chemicals from the mother before migrating to the child.

Outside the male biological sphere, the spiritual fulfillment is a whole different axis worth exploring.
Also, a lot of women bond with their babies as soon as they find out they're expecting. I didn't bond until I could feel the baby move. Then I bonded even further when I found out the sex because I created an identity in my head for the baby. I could think of him as "him". Of course once born, the deepest bond was instant for me. My Husband said it took a little bit of time after they were born before he bonded with them. He felt terrible admitting that, but I understood because I felt terrible about not bonding with them the second I found out I was pregnant like most Mom's claim.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I would be absolutely, out-of-body elated to have children. I love kids and think it would be a great opportunity, biological or adopted.

What I am not willing to compromise on is having a great marriage to raise kids within the confines of.
This is refreshing to hear; I completely agree. My curiosity for children elevated once my SO and I started down the marriage path. Perhaps it was because I was secure and comfortable enough to ask myself these sorts of questions and my iNtuition starting casting out plans for the next few decades.
I know I'm not there yet, but I'm no longer saying "never."
 

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I would like to, some day. Biological or not, I'd still try my best to provide them with the opportunities I did not have while growing up. For one, my own parents weren't very involved in my life, especially when it came to academics, didn't push me nearly enough, and that's one thing I definitely want to change with the next generation.

Its a lot of pressure thinking about it, since I have high standards for those around me, but even higher ones for myself, and I don't want to be kicking myself over every small perceived mistake. Though, there's a tendency to defy expectations, both my own and of those around me, when faced with adversity, so I'm sure something would come out of it one way or another.

At the moment, I'm researching schools, programs, and study habits for children. Some might say its too early, but every bit of information helps. All that's left is putting it all into practice, and that in itself should be a reward for everyone. I already know they'll put a smile on my face, so I'd better stop thinking now before someone asks me why I'm grinning at the screen like an idiot!
 

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I would like to, some day. Biological or not, I'd still try my best to provide them with the opportunities I did not have while growing up. For one, my own parents weren't very involved in my life, especially when it came to academics, didn't push me nearly enough, and that's one thing I definitely want to change with the next generation.

Its a lot of pressure thinking about it, since I have high standards for those around me, but even higher ones for myself, and I don't want to be kicking myself over every small perceived mistake. Though, there's a tendency to defy expectations, both my own and of those around me, when faced with adversity, so I'm sure something would come out of it one way or another.

At the moment, I'm researching schools, programs, and study habits for children. Some might say its too early, but every bit of information helps. All that's left is putting it all into practice, and that in itself should be a reward for everyone. I already know they'll put a smile on my face, so I'd better stop thinking now before someone asks me why I'm grinning at the screen like an idiot!
Out of curiosity, what if one of your children are say, an ENFJ (seem to be very misunderstood children)? My Sister is an ENFJ and both of my parents are ENTJ's, they pushed and pushed and pushed her; the harder they pushed, the more distressed she became. She needed an entirely different parenting style than they were providing. They see this now, but unfortunately when it was most important, they tried to parent us in a one size fits all format...specifically, their way of thinking. Of course, kids are resilient and we all turned out fine, but my sister definitely had MAJOR confidence issues her entire life up until a few years ago. I'm just curious if you have considered children with different needs? And I think it's awesome that you are educating yourself on Parenting ahead of time :)
 

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Also, a lot of women bond with their babies as soon as they find out they're expecting. I didn't bond until I could feel the baby move. Then I bonded even further when I found out the sex because I created an identity in my head for the baby. I could think of him as "him". Of course once born, the deepest bond was instant for me. My Husband said it took a little bit of time after they were born before he bonded with them. He felt terrible admitting that, but I understood because I felt terrible about not bonding with them the second I found out I was pregnant like most Mom's claim.
I didn't bond until I got them out of my damn body. Damn uncomfortable sleeping upright for last trimester. yech! First time dad was in raptures when he first met her. She was late, her skin was cooked, we played peel the baby. I think we both bonded pretty quick after she was born.
 

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Kids . . . . I may be 24 but I have thought about this for some time actually. lol

There would be 2 side to this.
1. I would be the coolest father ever because I have interest in really cool stuff.
2. I would hate to raise a kid, knowing that I would do stuff to make sure they did not live through my experiences.

Side note: If i did get kids, I'd need one of each sex.
 
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I've no interest in ever having kids. Not really something I see much benefit in. I've made room for the possibility that after marrying someone extraordinary, if they *really* wanted kids and were particularly persuasive (I make no guarantee), that I might change my mind.... but I don't think so.

The only reason I'd want kids is to toy with their minds... but of course then I have to live with the results... so it'd be better to just screw with other people's kid's minds....... so many fun experiments that can be done with the psychology of kids, so much potential and room for profound results. I've always wanted to construct or find a natural environment, cut off from modern society, drop a bunch of incredibly young kids (maybe even babies) in it and be particularly choosy about what kinds of stimuli are introduced into their new society. Obviously a lot of variables there and the question of how to support them long enough to truly act on their own without biasing their actions too much.... ahhh, the places my mind wanders when it has the time to be bored.
 

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Out of curiosity, what if one of your children are say, an ENFJ (seem to be very misunderstood children)? My Sister is an ENFJ and both of my parents are ENTJ's, they pushed and pushed and pushed her; the harder they pushed, the more distressed she became. She needed an entirely different parenting style than they were providing. They see this now, but unfortunately when it was most important, they tried to parent us in a one size fits all format...specifically, their way of thinking. Of course, kids are resilient and we all turned out fine, but my sister definitely had MAJOR confidence issues her entire life up until a few years ago. I'm just curious if you have considered children with different needs? And I think it's awesome that you are educating yourself on Parenting ahead of time :)
Then I'll understand them first.

I'm actually very perceptive of those around me, so if I saw that my methods weren't working, I'd adapt. And not blindly, either, trying random solutions until one of them produced the results I wanted. Chances are, I'd have been examining them from an early age. What couldn't be observed would have be learned through research and questioning. The end goal isn't to have my ways followed at all costs, it is to have my children to grow up successful, confident, and independent, whatever it takes. People respond to incentives, and I think the right combination of support, motivation, and pressure should be enough to have most of my expectations met. They should come to know me not as some authoritarian drill sergeant type figure, more like a quiet but strong presence they could count on for assistance and guidance.

MBTI and other assessments should also play a part in finding their strengths and weaknesses. If my parents had been aware that I was a developing INTJ with high verbal and logical intelligence, they could have introduced me to careers I might enjoy early on, and what type of background knowledge and skills it could take to get there. There's also the factor of exposure to a variety of different areas as well, since you've got to have options. While my mother didn't stress school grades much, she did take me to the science museum, library, zoo, and foreign cities often, along with having me attend private piano, swimming, craft, and shotokan lessons, all of which I'm still grateful for to this day.
 

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Then I'll understand them first.

I'm actually very perceptive of those around me, so if I saw that my methods weren't working, I'd adapt. And not blindly, either, trying random solutions until one of them produced the results I wanted. Chances are, I'd have been examining them from an early age. What couldn't be observed would have be learned through research and questioning. The end goal isn't to have my ways followed at all costs, it is to have my children to grow up successful, confident, and independent, whatever it takes. People respond to incentives, and I think the right combination of support, motivation, and pressure should be enough to have most of my expectations met. They should come to know me not as some authoritarian drill sergeant type figure, more like a quiet but strong presence they could count on for assistance and guidance.

MBTI and other assessments should also play a part in finding their strengths and weaknesses. If my parents had been aware that I was a developing INTJ with high verbal and logical intelligence, they could have introduced me to careers I might enjoy early on, and what type of background knowledge and skills it could take to get there. There's also the factor of exposure to a variety of different areas as well, since you've got to have options. While my mother didn't stress school grades much, she did take me to the science museum, library, zoo, and foreign cities often, along with having me attend private piano, swimming, craft, and shotokan lessons, all of which I'm still grateful for to this day.
Thank you for the response, that's a good answer IMO...I have another question, if you don't mind:

What if your idea of success is different than your child's? For instance, your child wants to be a model or actress and wants to actively pursue that rather than go to college. This could be very difficult for a lot of parents to accept.
 
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