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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In the time I've been here, I've seen a lot of comments and indications that INTJs would be the coldest and most heartless type. This doesn't seem to make sense, I can't see why they would be more cold than ISTJs, and ExTJs would be even more cold, since their Fi is even lower. Could someone please explain this, I can't figure it out.
 
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This is just conjecture based off of personal observations, so take them with a grain of salt:

The INTJs that I personally know are very jaded people. One suffers from chronic depression, and the other had an incredibly rough upbringing that made him naturally doubtful of people and any good intentions they might have. They see things through a very dark lens.

INxJ types in general are prone to being rather bitter and cold because we feel isolated from almost everyone else, being the rarest types. Having Ni as your top function makes you perceive things in ways that a lot of types can't even begin to understand, so we can get frustrated with people for not "getting" or appreciating our thoughts or views. We live in a world that -- statistically speaking -- is predominantly S, so Ns in general can end up feeling left out. With that in mind, it's not difficult to see why having an N function, especially the very abstract Ni function, as your dominant can make life feel rather lonely.

One of the biggest differences between INFJs and INTJs is that while INFJs are extroverted feelers, INTJs are introverted feelers -- and it's their third function. This means that their feelings can sneak up on them and overwhelm them, overtaking their rationality if they're not careful. INTJs who live in environments that they don't like very much (one where they feel that they're not being recognized or understood) are probably going to come off as cold. In essence, they've put up with enough of the world's crap, and they have little tolerance left for mental incompetence. This can make them pretty snappy.

This isn't the only explanation, though. An INTJ's top three functions (Ni, Te, and Fi) boil down to this sort of mentality: "Does this fit my construct? Is it logical? Does it fit my principles? If not, then it probably needs to be corrected". They don't come at people with the intention of hurting their feelings, because feelings aren't what they're considering.

INTJs can definitely come off as cold, but they have a warmer underbelly -- at least in my experience. If you've earned the love and respect of an INTJ, they're fiercely loyal and considerate of your needs. If they're brought down to working off of Fi, they can become very vulnerable and sensitive, much more so than an INFJ (INFJs sort of carry our feelings around in a bag on the outside, while an INTJ's feelings live deep on the inside). This is another reason why they tend to seem so callous: they don't want to express that feeling part of them, it's usually too painful/uncomfortable for them.

Again, I'm not an INTJ, so I could be wrong on a lot of things.

(sources: dated an INTJ and was best friends with one for years)
 

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INTJs can definitely come off as cold, but they have a warmer underbelly -- at least in my experience. If you've earned the love and respect of an INTJ, they're fiercely loyal and considerate of your needs. If they're brought down to working off of Fi, they can become very vulnerable and sensitive, much more so than an INFJ (INFJs sort of carry our feelings around in a bag on the outside, while an INTJ's feelings live deep on the inside). This is another reason why they tend to seem so callous: they don't want to express that feeling part of them, it's usually too painful/uncomfortable for them.
Sounds quite accurate to me.
 

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Sounds quite accurate to me.
*Phew* I was hoping I would get the INTJ stamp of approval. It's good to know that my understanding of you guys isn't too far off. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
This is just conjecture based off of personal observations, so take them with a grain of salt:

The INTJs that I personally know are very jaded people. One suffers from chronic depression, and the other had an incredibly rough upbringing that made him naturally doubtful of people and any good intentions they might have. They see things through a very dark lens.

INxJ types in general are prone to being rather bitter and cold because we feel isolated from almost everyone else, being the rarest types. Having Ni as your top function makes you perceive things in ways that a lot of types can't even begin to understand, so we can get frustrated with people for not "getting" or appreciating our thoughts or views. We live in a world that -- statistically speaking -- is predominantly S, so Ns in general can end up feeling left out. With that in mind, it's not difficult to see why having an N function, especially the very abstract Ni function, as your dominant can make life feel rather lonely.

One of the biggest differences between INFJs and INTJs is that while INFJs are extroverted feelers, INTJs are introverted feelers -- and it's their third function. This means that their feelings can sneak up on them and overwhelm them, overtaking their rationality if they're not careful. INTJs who live in environments that they don't like very much (one where they feel that they're not being recognized or understood) are probably going to come off as cold. In essence, they've put up with enough of the world's crap, and they have little tolerance left for mental incompetence. This can make them pretty snappy.

This isn't the only explanation, though. An INTJ's top three functions (Ni, Te, and Fi) boil down to this sort of mentality: "Does this fit my construct? Is it logical? Does it fit my principles? If not, then it probably needs to be corrected". They don't come at people with the intention of hurting their feelings, because feelings aren't what they're considering.

INTJs can definitely come off as cold, but they have a warmer underbelly -- at least in my experience. If you've earned the love and respect of an INTJ, they're fiercely loyal and considerate of your needs. If they're brought down to working off of Fi, they can become very vulnerable and sensitive, much more so than an INFJ (INFJs sort of carry our feelings around in a bag on the outside, while an INTJ's feelings live deep on the inside). This is another reason why they tend to seem so callous: they don't want to express that feeling part of them, it's usually too painful/uncomfortable for them.

Again, I'm not an INTJ, so I could be wrong on a lot of things.

(sources: dated an INTJ and was best friends with one for years)
Thank you, this seems to make sense. But I still can't see why they would appear more "cold" than ENTJs, or honestly ESTJs either. With us, Fi is inferior, wouldn't that mean we repress it even more? (I don't consider myself cold, or want the label of being cold, I just want to understand why.)
 

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Introversion plays a key role as well. INTJs can be even more emotionally unavailable and disconnected than their extrovert cousins because their world is primarily internal.
 

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Thank you, this seems to make sense. But I still can't see why they would appear more "cold" than ENTJs, or honestly ESTJs either. With us, Fi is inferior, wouldn't that mean we repress it even more? (I don't consider myself cold, or want the label of being cold, I just want to understand why.)
It would mean that it would be further away from the surface, which would actually make you less prone to biting at people. ESTJs and ENTJs -- at least in my experience -- usually say hurtful things because they're being matter-of-fact and have no idea that it's hurtful. INTJs, on the other hand, have a closer connection to feelings and are more prone to being actually hurtful as a result. In essence, it's easier to piss an INTJ off and make them snap at you. At least, that's my theory.
 
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I think focusing on the xxTJ component alone may disregard what I consider to be an important factor - Ni. I agree with zosio913 about the influence of Ni dominance - it automatically sets you away from the group and makes you seem colder. ExTJ types lead with Te, and are more likely to be involved with the external environment, which is often seen as warmer; xSTJ types, because of their Si, will find it easier to relate to others with their primary worldview.

Being "cold" is basically decided by how you are perceived. Ni is almost always perceived as cold when it's dominant. INFJ is even considered to be cold, and we use Fe, which is generally thought to be super warm! I guess Ni cancels it out?

In any case, the root of these perceptions is of particular interest to me, but I haven't settled on an opinion yet.
 

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Intjs cold = sexy
 
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This is just conjecture based off of personal observations, so take them with a grain of salt:

The INTJs that I personally know are very jaded people. One suffers from chronic depression, and the other had an incredibly rough upbringing that made him naturally doubtful of people and any good intentions they might have. They see things through a very dark lens.

INxJ types in general are prone to being rather bitter and cold because we feel isolated from almost everyone else, being the rarest types. Having Ni as your top function makes you perceive things in ways that a lot of types can't even begin to understand, so we can get frustrated with people for not "getting" or appreciating our thoughts or views. We live in a world that -- statistically speaking -- is predominantly S, so Ns in general can end up feeling left out. With that in mind, it's not difficult to see why having an N function, especially the very abstract Ni function, as your dominant can make life feel rather lonely.

One of the biggest differences between INFJs and INTJs is that while INFJs are extroverted feelers, INTJs are introverted feelers -- and it's their third function. This means that their feelings can sneak up on them and overwhelm them, overtaking their rationality if they're not careful. INTJs who live in environments that they don't like very much (one where they feel that they're not being recognized or understood) are probably going to come off as cold. In essence, they've put up with enough of the world's crap, and they have little tolerance left for mental incompetence. This can make them pretty snappy.

This isn't the only explanation, though. An INTJ's top three functions (Ni, Te, and Fi) boil down to this sort of mentality: "Does this fit my construct? Is it logical? Does it fit my principles? If not, then it probably needs to be corrected". They don't come at people with the intention of hurting their feelings, because feelings aren't what they're considering.

INTJs can definitely come off as cold, but they have a warmer underbelly -- at least in my experience. If you've earned the love and respect of an INTJ, they're fiercely loyal and considerate of your needs. If they're brought down to working off of Fi, they can become very vulnerable and sensitive, much more so than an INFJ (INFJs sort of carry our feelings around in a bag on the outside, while an INTJ's feelings live deep on the inside). This is another reason why they tend to seem so callous: they don't want to express that feeling part of them, it's usually too painful/uncomfortable for them.

Again, I'm not an INTJ, so I could be wrong on a lot of things.

(sources: dated an INTJ and was best friends with one for years)
That's an Fe analysis of INTJ,... so to an INTJ, what you wrote, is full of feely stuff that isn't making a whole lot of sense.

The basic thing about INTJ's is that we don't care about other people's feelings. That doesn't mean we hate other people, it just means it's not very important to us. When an INTJ helps someone it isn't because he cares about that person, but because he thinks he should do it. (that comes from Fi, which is more a moral accessment than actually feeling something. It most certainly has nothing to do with the person he is helping.) And if he knows he can't help because he doesn't have the knowledge or means to, then he won't and that's it.

INTJ's do have feelings of course. But we don't have a need for having feelings all the time. We don't need feelings to be able to think. Feeling is not part of our information processing. In F's this is an essencial part of information processing. So when feelings happen, it's a source of information to INTJ's, not a necessary part to reach a conclusion.


Why do INTJ's seem cold to other people (mostly to F's)? Because often INTJ's will just have a neutral face, meaning there isn't much emotion showing. That's not because INTJ's are cold, but because there isn't a lot of emotion going on. At least not in just normal average daily situations where F's feel lots of stuff all the time.

I have learned one thing about neutral faces. When people see a neutral face, so that is a face that isn't showing any emotion, they will still try to see something. And when there is nothing to see that proves something positive,... the conclusion is something negative. Neutral does not seem to be an available conclusion.


I've also learned that when you want help from someone in a store, it's good to use a little smile right after first eye contact. The willingness of people to help you goes up 100 times,.. just because of that little smile. (I've tested this and it really works like that.) I don't usually tell people about this in real life because almost everyone responds with big surprise because to most people this is something so normal, they can't comprehend someone had to figure this out.
 

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Am I the only one here who doesn't find INTJs cold?

The ones that I know in real life, they seemed to have this deep emotional sentimental side to them that they kept very well-hidden from the entire world.

I personally find ENTJs much colder than INTJ. I have a difficult time getting along with ENTJ, but I clicked with every INTJ I met.
 

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That's an Fe analysis of INTJ,... so to an INTJ, what you wrote, is full of feely stuff that isn't making a whole lot of sense.

The basic thing about INTJ's is that we don't care about other people's feelings. That doesn't mean we hate other people, it just means it's not very important to us. When an INTJ helps someone it isn't because he cares about that person, but because he thinks he should do it. (that comes from Fi, which is more a moral accessment than actually feeling something. It most certainly has nothing to do with the person he is helping.) And if he knows he can't help because he doesn't have the knowledge or means to, then he won't and that's it.

INTJ's do have feelings of course. But we don't have a need for having feelings all the time. We don't need feelings to be able to think. Feeling is not part of our information processing. In F's this is an essencial part of information processing. So when feelings happen, it's a source of information to INTJ's, not a necessary part to reach a conclusion.
I disagree especially with the bolded, of course we care for other people, we're not robots, we will be influenced by our emotions, and some INTJs are simply less aware of that, or less connected to their own feeling than others, because of a bad upbringing, difference in personality or trauma.

Being an INTJ only says something about how you take in and handle information, but not about whether you are cold person, or very caring, or whether you like science or you don't, or whether you enjoy being around people or don't and not even about whether you are a genius or what not. It could be that some combination of Enneagram type + MBTI type, or whatever is more common, or it could simply be that the stereotypical image of an INTJ just fails to take into account all the possible difference between people with the same type.
Why do INTJ's seem cold to other people (mostly to F's)? Because often INTJ's will just have a neutral face, meaning there isn't much emotion showing. That's not because INTJ's are cold, but because there isn't a lot of emotion going on. At least not in just normal average daily situations where F's feel lots of stuff all the time.
I think what people define as cold is when someone doesn't seem affectionate, emotional or friendly at all, and again I don't see this being necessarily true of any type, we all have lots of emotions, but we all have different ways we could express this and different ways to repress them. Still, the neutral face could give people a very distorted first impression, and it often does.

Honestly I used to see this stereotype as rather strange, but unfortunately "I've fallen pray" to it too for a while, by which I mean that I started acting more like the general idea of what an INTJ was and less like myself, I probably did the same thing with other types I had identified with before. I myself never identified as a cold genius, or whatever, I never would even consider myself cold. I did consider myself to be aloof, a little bit detached, and often enough I could be quite unconfident, but this still doesn't mean I am not an INTJ, I still very much relate to the Ni-Te-Fi-Se stacking, more than any other, and even if we just simply talk about dichotomies I still relate to INTJ, more than any other.

The INTJs that I personally know are very jaded people. One suffers from chronic depression, and the other had an incredibly rough upbringing that made him naturally doubtful of people and any good intentions they might have. They see things through a very dark lens.

INxJ types in general are prone to being rather bitter and cold because we feel isolated from almost everyone else, being the rarest types. Having Ni as your top function makes you perceive things in ways that a lot of types can't even begin to understand, so we can get frustrated with people for not "getting" or appreciating our thoughts or views. We live in a world that -- statistically speaking -- is predominantly S, so Ns in general can end up feeling left out. With that in mind, it's not difficult to see why having an N function, especially the very abstract Ni function, as your dominant can make life feel rather lonely.

One of the biggest differences between INFJs and INTJs is that while INFJs are extroverted feelers, INTJs are introverted feelers -- and it's their third function. This means that their feelings can sneak up on them and overwhelm them, overtaking their rationality if they're not careful. INTJs who live in environments that they don't like very much (one where they feel that they're not being recognized or understood) are probably going to come off as cold. In essence, they've put up with enough of the world's crap, and they have little tolerance left for mental incompetence. This can make them pretty snappy.
An interesting perception, but Ni doesn't necessarily cause someone to become bitter and cold. I definitely agree with the fact that it could make one more distant, but still those perceptions that no one could understand? I'm not so sure, of course the concept that is in your mind and the words that leave your mouth to describe that concept rarely make a great correlation, though I'm convinced that if one simply keeps and open mind, and starts looking that you could see that many people, without Ni struggle with the same thing. Maybe to a lesser extent, and maybe they don't have those Ni perceptions, though still they suffer from the same thing, not having their thoughts understood by others. In the end, Ni is just another function, with it's own pros and cons. What often makes people bitter in my eyes is not their functions, but their experiences, especially if these harsh experiences came far to early in life.
 

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From my experience with INTJs... They seem to have a very weak Fe, which seems to be the problem in most cases. The strong Fi and Ni combo makes them selfish introverted explorers of within. They seem the most socially weak and awkward nerds on the inside of all MBTI imo, although I dont see that on this forum, these are my observations of INTJs under 25 in real life.

I would also say they have the most problems getting to attract the opposite sex and difficulty in their families understanding them on the emotional level.

My friend is not the well developed INTJ type by far. When we talk he uses his Te to decipher my information, Ni to evaluate if it fits in his vision and Fi to express his views on the flaws. The Fi can be pretty exhausting, though I do not reflect on his feelings which makes him even more neurotic, sometimes going into tantrum like state. He thinks through on what he is acting like, calms himself down but still doesnt really understand the way he acts is unacceptable for me, I am a strong rejector of Fi.

We get into conflicts because his Fi always supports his Ni's internal tunnel vision , while my Fe focuses on objectifying my Ti. He never admits he is angry or irritated.

ISTJ and ExTJ may not be perceived as so cold because they dont use Fi as strong with a connection to Ni. They might be better Fe users... The difference between ISTJ and INTJ is basically the Si vs Ni. Si-Fi combo makes them a strong believer in social values, they internalize what is right for them and others based on internal interpretation of societies feedback, if others dont see the world as they do they are wrong by social standards which makes it not so personal. While on the other hand, the Ni-Fi user is searching for his own internal values making him vulnerable to other peoples influence on them, therefore they evolve a defensive mechanism that helps them reject the outside world making them seem cold.
 
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I disagree especially with the bolded, of course we care for other people, we're not robots, we will be influenced by our emotions, and some INTJs are simply less aware of that, or less connected to their own feeling than others, because of a bad upbringing, difference in personality or trauma.
That's a strawman, if I ever seen one. If unintentional, read and comprehend before you respond.

Being an INTJ only says something about how you take in and handle information, but not about whether you are cold person, or very caring, or whether you like science or you don't, or whether you enjoy being around people or don't and not even about whether you are a genius or what not.
How you process information may correlate with interests, and preferences.

I think what people define as cold is when someone doesn't seem affectionate, emotional or friendly at all
The definition of cold is subjective to the person using.

we all have lots of emotions, but we all have different ways we could express this and different ways to repress them.
You're stating the obvious here, the perception of being a subjective definition of cold is caused by expression and repression of emotions.

and again I don't see this being necessarily true of any type,
This can be true to any type.

Honestly I used to see this stereotype as rather strange, but unfortunately "I've fallen pray" to it too for a while, by which I mean that I started acting more like the general idea of what an INTJ was and less like myself, I probably did the same thing with other types I had identified with before. I myself never identified as a cold genius, or whatever, I never would even consider myself cold. I did consider myself to be aloof, a little bit detached, and often enough I could be quite unconfident, but this still doesn't mean I am not an INTJ, I still very much relate to the Ni-Te-Fi-Se stacking, more than any other, and even if we just simply talk about dichotomies I still relate to INTJ, more than any other.
Sounds like a personal problem, which holds no relevance.
 
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That's a strawman, if I ever seen one. If unintentional, read and comprehend before you respond.
It was unintentional, I should've specified that I meant that INTJs do care about other people's feelings. I do my best to do read and comprehend my post, though of course I can occasionally read over something.
How you process information may correlate with interests, and preferences.
I didn't think about it that way, now that you speak of it, do you believe that these cognitive functions are also somehow tied to these personal preferences? I admit that my post was perhaps written too arrogantly, and I made far too many assumptions. Therefore I want to ask you: How do these cognitive functions tie into the concepts of perception and judgement in your opinion? I believe that even though you can change many things, something still remain somewhat the same, and that this has to do with the cognitive functions.
The definition of cold is subjective to the person using.
I agree, I probably got too hung op on dictionary definitions, and didn't give that much attention to the fact that everybody may have a slightly different idea of what cold exactly is, still I believe that there is some kind of general consensus as to what cold is, even if that doesn't completely fit with everyone's individual perceptions.
You're stating the obvious here, the perception of being a subjective definition of cold is caused by expression and repression of emotions.
I probably skimmed through the post too quickly, but I think I understand what Peter meant now. I was confused and thought he was contradicting himself, but that was me misreading what he had posted.
This can be true to any type.
Indeed, I was just trying to show another way to look at the problem, I was trying to make it clear that some types can repress their emotions in such a way that they don't seem cold, basically they do it in a way that is more understood by the people around them, causing these people to not see them as cold, because they understand what's going on with people that have these mechanisms of repression.
Sounds like a personal problem, which holds no relevance.
Actually with this post I was trying to show you that I had become attached to the INTJ stereotype, and that therefore others could to have this, and that that is why so many INTJs seem cold, because they perpetuate this stereotype. Even if they are not aware of the MBTI system, for many INTJ males there is a lot of cultural bias, which could make them more prone to acting INTJ-like. In short: I was saying that we might not even know what an INTJ does behavior-wise and that behavior could greatly vary for each INTJ individual.

My original point I was trying to make was that an INTJ doesn't necessarily have to be cold, and that they don't necessarily need to fit the general idea of what an INTJ is, because there are many differences between individuals with the same type. Though this might of course not be true, I should have presented it more as possibility, rather than as a "strong argument".
 

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I find them pretty similar to us INFJs. The main difference is that they are built to be goal oriented, while we are more people oriented.

I don't think that they are cold, but being Ni-dom makes us look very detached of sensory reality. You would be surprise of how INFJs can look "cold" too when they are in a passive state.

Anyway, to describe them I would use more the words "reserved" and "detached" than cold.

There are plenty of stereotypes like always.
 

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INTJs in my experience are warm, caring, but blunt. Nothing wrong with being blunt (on that logic, I wish all of our politicians could be INTJs); I'll just reserve my right to feel (feelz?) butthurt :laughing:.
 

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Originally Posted by Peter
That's an Fe analysis of INTJ,... so to an INTJ, what you wrote, is full of feely stuff that isn't making a whole lot of sense.

The basic thing about INTJ's is that we don't care about other people's feelings. That doesn't mean we hate other people, it just means it's not very important to us. When an INTJ helps someone it isn't because he cares about that person, but because he thinks he should do it. (that comes from Fi, which is more a moral accessment than actually feeling something.




I disagree especially with the bolded, of course we care for other people, we're not robots, we will be influenced by our emotions, and some INTJs are simply less aware of that, or less connected to their own feeling than others, because of a bad upbringing, difference in personality or trauma.

Being an INTJ only says something about how you take in and handle information, but not about whether you are cold person, or very caring, or whether you like science or you don't, or whether you enjoy being around people or don't and not even about whether you are a genius or what not. It could be that some combination of Enneagram type + MBTI type, or whatever is more common, or it could simply be that the stereotypical image of an INTJ just fails to take into account all the possible difference between people with the same type.
Sorry for having to correct you but you´re not reading what I wrote. You say that "ofcourse" we care for other people. What I said is that we don't care about other people's feelings. Ofcourse this isn't like 100% of the time the case but in general, INTJ's don't care much about other people's feelings. In fact when people get too emotional about things, we get annoyed by it and it demotivates us to help. INTJ's tend to dislike emotional display.

So the motivation to help other people does not come from caring about people, but from feeling an obligation to help from the point of view that it is the right thing to do, which is a motivation caused by Fi.

So what I described is exactly about taking in and dealing with information.

All the other things you said are just a list of wong assumptions which are a spin off of your first wrong assumption. It's important to just read what I wrote and not something else.
 

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If someone I care about is sufferingg, it's the cause i look for and want to help with, rather than the emotion itself. You want me to hold you and tell you everything is ok, but that is a lie to me; I don't know that it will be and can't, and my touch is no cure or remedy, merely a distraction - countering one sensation with another.
 
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