[INTJ] INTJ and Flirting

flirting is a stupid and poorly defined game with ambigious rules and is a colossal waste of time.

If you think I'm attractive and/or want to get to know me better, just f***ing say so (i do.) On the off chance I even recognise flirting, I'm more likely to be irritated than relaxed. It would have been much simpler and quicker to be forward.

If I'm down, I'll find or invent common ground (eg find something we both do or are willing to try) and get to know you in the context of that activity. The activity serves as a distraction from the social pressure and the excercise of finding acceptable activities, as well as the conversations throughout, gives both parties insight into the others interests and lifestyle.

I don't need a reason to flirt. It's fun and playful and interesting. I look at it as a specific form of banter that has a tinge of sensuality to it. There are times to be direct; yet, just as importantly, there are times that call for a little subtlety. So, flirting should be in your conversational repertoire.

And even if you're in a serious relationship, it's a good way to remind your SO that you still have that attraction just like when you first met...

Pirate said:

flirting is a stupid and poorly defined game with ambigious rules and is a colossal waste of time.

If you think I'm attractive and/or want to get to know me better, just f***ing say so (i do.) On the off chance I even recognise flirting, I'm more likely to be irritated than relaxed. It would have been much simpler and quicker to be forward.

If I'm down, I'll find or invent common ground (eg find something we both do or are willing to try) and get to know you in the context of that activity. The activity serves as a distraction from the social pressure and the excercise of finding acceptable activities, as well as the conversations throughout, gives both parties insight into the others interests and lifestyle.

Click to expand...

Exactly, how does one recognize it going on? I'm pondering every conversation I've ever had with a girl and I wonder "was that flirting?" if it was "what was it and how do I repeat it?" I thought it was all just random conversations. Most of you are vague by describing the experience as fun or gamelike or word play, banter, verbal teasing, and innuendo with strangers; that does not explain it at all; lots of things are fun, lots of things are gamelike. How do you do these things and how do you know that the other person is doing these things like word play, banter, verbal teasing, and innuendo?

Priva said:

Flirting is supposed to convey romantic interest, but it's very confusing. Signs of flirting are often cited as laughter, smiling, light contact, etc...however, many of these things merely indicate pleasantness and are usually present in conversations between friends. This results in either misconstrued intentions or confusion (Is he being nice or just flirting? Is she laughing at my jokes because I'm funny or because she likes me?). The only "non-friendship-esque" flirting I've heard of is extended eye-contact, and that's really hard to pull off without looking creepy.

I don't know how people do it, man. I really don't.

Click to expand...

There are a lot of prank videos of people staring at others on youtube and I suppose that is flirting and yes it does look creepy at times. I sort of want to try it out. Although if I'm flirting, the other person may not have any idea that I am and it is even harder to tell if she is flirting or just being nice. Same goes for laughter, smiling, and light contact. It is difficult to say that every smile is flirting and every laugh ever made is flirting; maybe it is, I don't know; that is what I mean by vague. Is it okay to tell the person, "I'm trying to flirt with you" just to get the message across?

MarioAndLuigi said:

Exactly, how does one recognize it going on? I'm pondering every conversation I've ever had with a girl and I wonder "was that flirting?" if it was "what was it and how do I repeat it?" I thought it was all just random conversations. Most of you are vague by describing the experience as fun or gamelike or word play, banter, verbal teasing, and innuendo with strangers; that does not explain it at all; lots of things are fun, lots of things are gamelike. How do you do these things and how do you know that the other person is doing these things like word play, banter, verbal teasing, and innuendo?

Click to expand...

i think what defines flirting to me, as opposed to the other things, is with flirting there's an element of risk. it's take-a-risk-get-safe-take-a-risk play, like teasing the ocean to see if it can manage to get your shoes wet. if that helps.

lilysocks said:

i think what defines flirting to me, as opposed to the other things, is with flirting there's an element of risk. it's take-a-risk-get-safe-take-a-risk play, like teasing the ocean to see if it can manage to get your shoes wet. if that helps.

Click to expand...

I see. I see. Please go on.

So would dirty jokes count? That seems pretty risky. Or turning something the professor says and saying something to the girl next to me into something dirty and sexual based on something in lecture; there are tons of opportunities in biology for that. I've actually done that in a conversation about breast-feeding; that was not flirting by any means, it was just a dirty joke in passing in a convo; I don't know how that happened; it just did.

I suppose sarcasm could also be considered as flirting, but nobody has mentioned that yet. Nobody seems to understand my sarcasm, even though I always understand theirs.

I find flirting kinda fun, like a game. Not in a way to disrespect a persons feelings, of course, but an opportunity to experiment and really more often than not, playfully tease someone I feel affection towards. I'm pretty exclusive with my flirting though...

I also like to use it as an opportunity to see how far I can push a certain person's sense of humor, as mine can grow morbid and strange quickly. It's funny to see where some people just cut off and are confused/disgusted. The ones who aren't are keepers in my book, hahaha.

MarioAndLuigi said:

So would dirty jokes count? That seems pretty risky. Or turning something the professor says and saying something to the girl next to me into something dirty and sexual based on something in lecture; there are tons of opportunities in biology for that. I've actually done that in a conversation about breast-feeding; that was not flirting by any means, it was just a dirty joke in passing in a convo; I don't know how that happened; it just did.

Click to expand...

Yes, that counts. Sarcasm is fine too, as long as it's lighthearted. Snarky, not bitter.

Flirting is an entertaining game. I must admit, when I do flirt, I feel a tad bit manipulative. My play on words and actions that best suit their intimate weaknesses isn't much of a challenge. I think I like it because it gives me a sense of empowerment. I have a superiority complex that needs to be tamed, lol.

Why not?
There's no rational explanation about an INTJ or any Te NOT to flirt.
Flirting doesn't necessarily have to be about actual feelings, it's a game, a fun teasing, mindfucking challenge.
Sometimes it starts out of nowhere, THERE you can test and use your intelligence to keep it up.

Bottom line, if you like someone you CAN go straight telling them, flirting doesn't mean that the flirted person with is the one for you, it's just an attraction/fun game.

MarioAndLuigi said:

I see. I see. Please go on.

So would dirty jokes count? That seems pretty risky.

Click to expand...

well, i wouldn't count them. it's not like there's one flavour of flirting that suits all people, so maybe it would count to someone else. the thing about just getting suggestive off the starting-point of a biology class (to me) is there's nothing *personal* in it.

it was just a dirty joke in passing in a convo;

Click to expand...

yes, exactly. it's just connecting a pair of fairly-obvious dots. a flirt move (to me) always involves a gentle dash of emotional risk. whether you mean it or not, what you're really saying to the other person subliminally is 'i like you. do you like me?' that's why i never flirt if i don't mean it, myself. it's not just 'i like you', even. it's 'i like you - and trust you - enough to take this small risk. even if you don't go for it, i don't think you'll hold it against me that i tried it out.'

this is my form of it, and my breakdown of how my form works. the thing about my form - as opposed to simply suggestive remarks - is that the flirter is the one initiating, and they take the risk.

there are also people who'll say or do things that seem to be mostly designed to put the flirtee off balance, and i guess that comes down to the same kind of question really. but that kind seems far more power-based and one-sided to me, and as such it's actively unattractive to me. it's more like the person making the move isn't showing their own vulnerable belly at all. they're taking no risks at all, emotionally. they're just saying 'do you like ME enough to put up with this?' i don't at all like being on the receiving end of that kind. and for that reason i'd never do it to anyone else that i liked.

I've definitely been accused over and over of flirting when I didn't intend to, and of finding out other people were "obviously" interested in me years later. Redacted's conversation with his wife has been me so many times! It can be maddening, but at the same time kind of amusing; a different spin on what you remember happening. It took a while, but eventually I connected the dots to realize that when I feel confident and comfortable in a conversation, that's when people will say I'm flirting.

Has anyone else made this connection? For me, feeling confident in a conversation means I'm fully present and really listening enough to what's being said to have all these little connections happening which typically turn into corny puns, or just much more lighthearted responses.

lilysocks said:

there are also people who'll say or do things that seem to be mostly designed to put the flirtee off balance, and i guess that comes down to the same kind of question really. but that kind seems far more power-based and one-sided to me, and as such it's actively unattractive to me. it's more like the person making the move isn't showing their own vulnerable belly at all. they're taking no risks at all, emotionally. they're just saying 'do you like ME enough to put up with this?' i don't at all like being on the receiving end of that kind. and for that reason i'd never do it to anyone else that i liked.

Click to expand...

Thank you Lilysocks, you're so insightful as always. More thoughts to munch on now.

I thank all of these posts for helping me to understand this "art" of flirting much more. I suppose in a twisted and warped way, I have flirted without knowing it and other people have a hard time realizing that I am flirting with them or may be not. I think NF's have an easier time with this whole flirting "game".

There is a guy who apparently was hitting on me for more than a year. And I don't know, I always took the "flirting signs" as jokes. Now I think he got bored of my "apathic attitude", but it wasn't apathy! I didn't know he was flirting! He basically wasted a whole year of his life, I don't understand.

I find the whole flirting thing so annoying and pointless that probably if I ever tried to do it, I'd had to pretend I'm playing a character who enjoys flirting... and I maybe that could actually go well, hmmm... No, that's probably not a good idea...

araneae said:

There is a guy who apparently was hitting on me for more than a year. And I don't know, I always took the "flirting signs" as jokes. Now I think he got bored of my "apathic attitude", but it wasn't apathy! I didn't know he was flirting! He basically wasted a whole year of his life, I don't understand.

I find the whole flirting thing so annoying and pointless that probably if I ever tried to do it, I'd had to pretend I'm playing a character who enjoys flirting... and I maybe that could actually go well, hmmm... No, that's probably not a good idea...

Click to expand...

I know what you mean by that. When I have tried this flirting thing (extremely rarely), I have to be somebody who I am not and really put myself out there. It was just filled with complete weirdness afterwards and I never came in contact with those people ever again, they are just strangers. If you are curious and never done it before, you should try it once and just treat it as a "social experiment" like I did just to get a taste of what other humans deal with on a regular basis. I'm still not sure whether what I did was flirting or not, so I'm just going to call it border-line flirting; it's too vague of a concept for me to justify flirting.

araneae said:

There is a guy who apparently was hitting on me for more than a year. And I don't know, I always took the "flirting signs" as jokes. Now I think he got bored of my "apathic attitude", but it wasn't apathy! I didn't know he was flirting! He basically wasted a whole year of his life, I don't understand.

Click to expand...

This happened to me recently, except that instead of being "apathetic" I played along and flirted back. I mean, we're just kidding around, right?

But no, apparently he actually did like me. It's kind of flattering how he went for the direct approach soon enough. He could tell that his hints flew off my head and that I thought he wasn't serious. Though all the same, despite the mixed signals, I had fun flirting with him. I don't really get irritated with it. I like games, and this is a really fun game if you manage to keep up.

MarioAndLuigi said:

I know what you mean by that. When I have tried this flirting thing (extremely rarely), I have to be somebody who I am not and really put myself out there. It was just filled with complete weirdness afterwards and I never came in contact with those people ever again, they are just strangers. If you are curious and never done it before, you should try it once and just treat it as a "social experiment" like I did just to get a taste of what other humans deal with on a regular basis. I'm still not sure whether what I did was flirting or not, so I'm just going to call it border-line flirting; it's too vague of a concept for me to justify flirting.

Click to expand...

I think you're putting the concept of flirting into a box. You don't have to act like someone else to flirt. I mean sure you can, if you want to. But that's not a prerequisite. There are many different ways to flirt; I think that's why you see this concept as vague. Some people are more outlandish than others; some people are more subtle than others. That's also probably why the answers given to you don't seem clear enough.

As for possible objectives... I see flirting as another method to measure the other person's humor. I can also utilize flirting to gain someone else's attention in a fun way. I can mess them up a little, see what makes them laugh, see what makes them tick or react. You can do all that by being direct too, of course. Flirting is another way of doing it, and I don't see what's wrong with using either or both methods.

Mostly it's just fun. The mixed signals can be a source of entertainment too, but I can see how some people can get annoyed.