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Discussion Starter #1
I work closely with an INTP colleague (The CFO in the company) and have noticed a lot of key differences. So, I'm writing this post to state the differences that I've observed in INTPs and myself as an INTJ.

First of all.
He's almost painfully slow at coming to a conclusion or making a decision. However, I've noticed that once he's come to a conclusion or made a judgement. It's almost impossible to convince him to change his mind. He does listen to my advice and a lot of the decisions he's eventually arrived at have been one's I had been championing. But now, once he gets comfortable with a judgement, he doesn't reassess the judgement when something changes to the original reason why we decided to do something, its almost like he can't see that the facts have changed and we need to pivot our position. He will agree with all my points but still withhold judgement.
Things he might say:

I just think we might be missing something.
(What hypothetical thing are we missing?)
Well maybe but that doesn't mean... (Yes it does)

In a lot of ways he seems more introverted than I am. However, I think that I'm actually more introverted, I just have the ability to snap in and out of it throughout the day.

He doesn't seem to like theorizing about future possibilities as much.
"We'll see when it comes."
When I think that its something that we can start developing an understanding of much earlier.
He absolutely hates driving long distances. Se must really exhaust him. And he seems to have a hard time seeing when something can easily be improved.
Also, INTPs based on my experience seem to be better at doing busy work. I cannot stand anything mundane and tedious.

Any thoughts on other differences?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
INTJ on differences Seen in an INTP

I work closely with an INTP colleague (The CFO in the company) and have noticed a lot of key differences. So, I'm writing this post to state the differences that I've observed in INTPs and myself as an INTJ.

First of all.
He's almost painfully slow at coming to a conclusion or making a decision. However, I've noticed that once he's come to a conclusion or made a judgement. It's almost impossible to convince him to change his mind. He does listen to my advice and a lot of the decisions he's eventually arrived at have been one's I had been championing. But now, once he gets comfortable with a judgement, he doesn't reassess the judgement when something changes to the original reason why we decided to do something, its almost like he can't see that the facts have changed and we need to pivot our position. He will agree with all my points but still withhold judgement.
Things he might say:

I just think we might be missing something.
(What hypothetical thing are we missing?)
Well maybe but that doesn't mean... (Yes it does)

In a lot of ways he seems more introverted than I am. However, I think that I'm actually more introverted, I just have the ability to snap in and out of it throughout the day.

He doesn't seem to like theorizing about future possibilities as much.
"We'll see when it comes."
When I think that its something that we can start developing an understanding of much earlier.
He absolutely hates driving long distances. Se must really exhaust him. And he seems to have a hard time seeing when something can easily be improved.
Also, INTPs based on my experience seem to be better at doing busy work. I cannot stand anything mundane and tedious.

Any thoughts on other differences?
 

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This is what an INTJ said to me, perhaps not verbatim but close enough, and l'm using quotes anyway:

"lt's funny because you're not actually stubborn, but you're the most stubborn person l've ever met.""

Coming from him :shocked: He was outwardly, what you'd believe to more rigid at certain times.

lt's true, l really don't reconsider, but l take a lot of time to decide so what's the difference?

l can understand how that doesn't meld with strategy, what he would want to do is hatch something pretty quickly and be firm with it since he was going to apply it immediately, and l don't really think that way.

lt doesn't mean l'm going to freak out someone else is changing their mind a lot, but l'm never a part of it. l would describe it like you did, l actually experience it as being ''blind'' to the new information coming in and it's like the person isn't even speaking English.
 

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I work closely with an INTP colleague (The CFO in the company) and have noticed a lot of key differences. So, I'm writing this post to state the differences that I've observed in INTPs and myself as an INTJ.

First of all.
He's almost painfully slow at coming to a conclusion or making a decision. However, I've noticed that once he's come to a conclusion or made a judgement. It's almost impossible to convince him to change his mind. He does listen to my advice and a lot of the decisions he's eventually arrived at have been one's I had been championing. But now, once he gets comfortable with a judgement, he doesn't reassess the judgement when something changes to the original reason why we decided to do something, its almost like he can't see that the facts have changed and we need to pivot our position. He will agree with all my points but still withhold judgement.
Things he might say:

I just think we might be missing something.
(What hypothetical thing are we missing?)
Well maybe but that doesn't mean... (Yes it does)

In a lot of ways he seems more introverted than I am. However, I think that I'm actually more introverted, I just have the ability to snap in and out of it throughout the day.

He doesn't seem to like theorizing about future possibilities as much.
"We'll see when it comes."
When I think that its something that we can start developing an understanding of much earlier.
He absolutely hates driving long distances. Se must really exhaust him. And he seems to have a hard time seeing when something can easily be improved.
Also, INTPs based on my experience seem to be better at doing busy work. I cannot stand anything mundane and tedious.

Any thoughts on other differences?
My thought is your differences are not of INTJ and INTP but of you and this co-worker. Little of what you say seems to universally applicable as a description of type. I can tell you little of what you write really resonates with me.
 

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"We'll see when it comes."
Heh, standard INTP mindset. I think we just prefer to make sure our theories are correct, rather than to assume outright that something is true or not, without first validating it.

Thing is, even if he turns out to be wrong, he won't be angry or upset about, it'll be more of a typical nutty professor moment of, "Ahhhh ok ok ok, I understand now, back to the drawing board".

One key difference between INTPs and INTJs, I think is that you guys prefer to think it terms of the end result. Whereas INTPs are often not actually that concerned with achieving anything, as our main goal is simply to understand. If we understand something, we can then achieve it whenever we please, or even alter some of the variables to change the outcome to whatever else we desire. The drive of the INTP mind is to create a perfect system where everything is theoretically understood to the very core. Whereas I think the INTJ mind is more focussed of getting straight to the desired outcome, assuming that the past or present moment is not as important as the future plan.

Here's a way I like to picture it:

Consider a world map of strategic dominance, where everything in one colour is the territory you own. As your life progresses, your territory expands until the whole planet is yours. The territory represents knowledge, ever-expanding until nothing more can be learned. That is the INTJ mind.

Now consider looking up at a totally black night sky. Suddenly a star appears. Then another. Then another. Then many many more, until the sky is a brilliant white. The stars represent knowledge, randomly appearing in exactly the right place, ever-building the sense of intellectual completion. That is the INTP mind.

Here's another one:

Consider a blank board. Then a single jigsaw piece appears. Then another, and another until the puzzle is complete and there is an image of a perfectly formed universe with everything in exactly the right place for ultimate harmony. This image can then be copied and made into reality. That is the INTJ mind.

Consider a blank sheet of squared paper. Then a single functional 'item' appears on it. Then a tool. Then a button. Then another item. Then more and more, until it forms the blueprint for a perfect universe where everything is understood, the inputs and outputs, the controls, etc, so, in theory, it can be built and created and controlled in any way desired. That is the INTP mind.

INTJ wants a perfect world with everything in almost totalitarian order.
INTP wants an understood world where everything is chaos but they know it all back to front.

I think INTJs think 'forwards', whereas INTPs think 'inwards'.

The INTJ wants a world with contingency plans and 'what to do if this happens'. "OMG! France invaded the UK?! Ok initiate the Euro-collapse-avoidance-capitalisation plan."

Whereas the INTP doesn't care for contingency plans because their ideal world is one where they already know what's going to happen anyway. "OMG! France invaded the UK?! Heh, soon as Vietnam started selling banana juice in McDonalds, I knew it might trigger a European crisis of some sort. Oh well, some people may die, but I'm interested to see if my theory is correct - if all goes as I expect, this war should lead to the democratisation of the central Amazonian Watutu tribe and global thermonuclear war will happen 3000 years earlier than expected."

Note the abrupt, 'to-the-point' style of the INTJ, compared to the chaotic-but-logically-based babble of the INTP.
 

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Aside the quick phrase of my previous post, I consider myself still new to this site, so I wander mostly in INTJ board. But sometimes I go around in other types' boards, and in generic boards it is possible meet them. This for saying my experience is limited and anecdotal, but I have noticed a definite pattern.

The differences between an INTJ and an INTP can be summarized in some points, in sparse order:

1. They live in their head much more than us. At the point they pratically do not make distinction between what they say and what they do not say. We are much better at seeing the boundaries between thinking and reality.

2. Along as point 1, for them it is much more difficult see the difference between their feeling or opinion and objective reality.

3. They have a very strong self validation. Usually when we INTJs discuss, the self disappears. For the INTP, instead, the self is anything. They discard things in a debate not because they find illogicity or other objective matter, but just because it is not them having said that thing.

4. Corollary to point 3, the have an incredible self esteem in their reasoning. Forcing an INTP to even consider he could not have perfectly understood the interlocutor is an extenuating task.

5. They have an attention span of a single post, often a single phrase. They absolutely do not realize or care of coherence of the flow of discussion.

6. Corollary to point 5, they get lost practically always. They start in the main road of the discussion, and afterwards they take so many turns they lose it completely. They are unable to tell the difference between the main highway and a squirrel mountain path - you will have the ugly sensation to be a babysitter and need to take them by hand. Slowly.
 

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Since when are INTPs better at mundane busywork? That's a new one to me. INTPs always seem easily bored by things...

I, personally, can't do busywork much. It's repetitive, boring and doesn't mean anything :/
 

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I couldn't really relate with the INTP in the OP. The only similarity is the time I take to reach a decision. I don't think I would dismiss new data after that decision was made though. I don't identify with my judgments, all I want is to understand.

 
Heh, standard INTP mindset. I think we just prefer to make sure our theories are correct, rather than to assume outright that something is true or not, without first validating it.

Thing is, even if he turns out to be wrong, he won't be angry or upset about, it'll be more of a typical nutty professor moment of, "Ahhhh ok ok ok, I understand now, back to the drawing board".

One key difference between INTPs and INTJs, I think is that you guys prefer to think it terms of the end result. Whereas INTPs are often not actually that concerned with achieving anything, as our main goal is simply to understand. If we understand something, we can then achieve it whenever we please, or even alter some of the variables to change the outcome to whatever else we desire. The drive of the INTP mind is to create a perfect system where everything is theoretically understood to the very core. Whereas I think the INTJ mind is more focussed of getting straight to the desired outcome, assuming that the past or present moment is not as important as the future plan.

Here's a way I like to picture it:

Consider a world map of strategic dominance, where everything in one colour is the territory you own. As your life progresses, your territory expands until the whole planet is yours. The territory represents knowledge, ever-expanding until nothing more can be learned. That is the INTJ mind.

Now consider looking up at a totally black night sky. Suddenly a star appears. Then another. Then another. Then many many more, until the sky is a brilliant white. The stars represent knowledge, randomly appearing in exactly the right place, ever-building the sense of intellectual completion. That is the INTP mind.

Here's another one:

Consider a blank board. Then a single jigsaw piece appears. Then another, and another until the puzzle is complete and there is an image of a perfectly formed universe with everything in exactly the right place for ultimate harmony. This image can then be copied and made into reality. That is the INTJ mind.

Consider a blank sheet of squared paper. Then a single functional 'item' appears on it. Then a tool. Then a button. Then another item. Then more and more, until it forms the blueprint for a perfect universe where everything is understood, the inputs and outputs, the controls, etc, so, in theory, it can be built and created and controlled in any way desired. That is the INTP mind.

INTJ wants a perfect world with everything in almost totalitarian order.
INTP wants an understood world where everything is chaos but they know it all back to front.

I think INTJs think 'forwards', whereas INTPs think 'inwards'.

The INTJ wants a world with contingency plans and 'what to do if this happens'. "OMG! France invaded the UK?! Ok initiate the Euro-collapse-avoidance-capitalisation plan."

Whereas the INTP doesn't care for contingency plans because their ideal world is one where they already know what's going to happen anyway. "OMG! France invaded the UK?! Heh, soon as Vietnam started selling banana juice in McDonalds, I knew it might trigger a European crisis of some sort. Oh well, some people may die, but I'm interested to see if my theory is correct - if all goes as I expect, this war should lead to the democratisation of the central Amazonian Watutu tribe and global thermonuclear war will happen 3000 years earlier than expected."

Note the abrupt, 'to-the-point' style of the INTJ, compared to the chaotic-but-logically-based babble of the INTP.
Great. post. That's the way it is.
 
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Something screwy happened when I posted, it says I posted but the post doesn't show.
OP does not seem to align with a "typical" INTP. It's quite against INTP to dismiss information.

Mundane work, as I understand it, is the bane of INTPs.

But yes, before we make a decision we...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
He doesn't dismiss the new data. Or disagree with my interpretations of it. When I clearly state its implications. He agrees with me. It just takes him a long time to realize that these implications require action and change.
Very simple ex: We originally were going with company As proposal to build a smaller, less expensive, station to see if it met our requirements, while also building a more capable one in another location. Company president changes his mind and wants a more capable operation. We get new bids and company A is more expensive than Company B for their upgraded bid. Why are we still going with company A? The original thought was the potential to save money in the long run if we find that the less capable station is sufficient. Its simple. But in his mind he doesn't switch. There no longer is any reason to go with company A, unless he proposes a good reason to do so. But, he doesn't. He just doesn't switch after the facts have changed.

That's a simple example. He is data driven. But he seems to require so much data to reach a conclusion it seems he had trouble thinking of the basic principles that caused us to reach a conclusion, so when something changes that is fundamental, its almost like he's not quick to recognize how important it is.
It's like getting lost in the math problem, he's still doing correct math, but he's not understanding the implications of each step, he's just doing the step.

You're blank board and jigsaw piece is a good example but for me it seems to work more like this for an INTJ:
Blank board-- Jigsaw pieces start to appear. I recognize a pattern and constantly asking why each piece is appearing where they are. Then there's an unpredictable moment of clarity where one piece appearing gives me a blueprint of the whole thing. So, as they are still appearing I'm constantly getting confirmation that I'm right. So, I'm screaming can't you see, this is what's happening. This is the pattern! And he almost has to see the whole egging Statue of Liberty being built, torch and all before he recognizes it.

With tedious work. Yes, you guys don't like it either. But what I consider tedious is not the same as what you guys seem to. I remember proving that switching to a different product was going to save "x" a shit ton of money. I made an excel spread with all the variables showing that it works and if we don't we will miss out on all this extra cash.
He takes it and spends days, weeks computing all these meaningless numbers that prove the exact same thing. Just organizing them in different ways. While, I'm already working on the outside variables and important real world implementation problems we might face.

:)
 

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First of all.
He's almost painfully slow at coming to a conclusion or making a decision. However, I've noticed that once he's come to a conclusion or made a judgement. It's almost impossible to convince him to change his mind.
Speaking for myself, when I come to a conclusion that I stubbornly stick to.. you should listen to me, because I will turn out to be correct. If there's a chance that I might not be correct, or it doesn't matter then I will not be forceful about it.

He does listen to my advice and a lot of the decisions he's eventually arrived at have been one's I had been championing.But now, once he gets comfortable with a judgement, he doesn't reassess the judgement when something changes to the original reason why we decided to do something, its almost like he can't see that the facts have changed and we need to pivot our position. He will agree with all my points but still withhold judgement.
I'm usually open to change when the facts change. I guess the exceptions are when I believe the facts will change back (business is usually fluid like that) or when I've become emotionally vested in a decision, usually only due to having had a heated exchange about it previously

Things he might say:

I just think we might be missing something.
Translation: something seems wrong about this, I need time to mull it over.

He doesn't seem to like theorizing about future possibilities as much.
"We'll see when it comes."
No. I disagree with the descriptions that say Ne is future-oriented. It's possibility-oriented, the further you look into the future, the more possibilities that could disrupt your plans and the cloudier things get. So I find it very difficult to plan more than 2 weeks in advance.

Se must really exhaust him. And he seems to have a hard time seeing when something can easily be improved.
Also, INTPs based on my experience seem to be better at doing busy work. I cannot stand anything mundane and tedious.
I don't relate to this, I'm always seeing ways to improve things, and I'm usually the one trying to convince others that we should.
And I can't imagine anyone worse at doing busy work than me. I hate anything tedious too.

Any thoughts on other differences?
I work for someone I think is INTJ.
He'll get hung up on the way things should be done, and stubbornly insist on it, But it's sometimes more idealistic than practical, and doing things that way creates more problems than it solves. I'll clash with him over that, but he doesn't bend until he gets burned by it.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Heh, standard INTP mindset. I think we just prefer to make sure our theories are correct, rather than to assume outright that something is true or not, without first validating it.




I think INTJs think 'forwards', whereas INTPs think 'inwards'.

The INTJ wants a world with contingency plans and 'what to do if this happens'. "OMG! France invaded the UK?! Ok initiate the Euro-collapse-avoidance-capitalisation plan."

Whereas the INTP doesn't care for contingency plans because their ideal world is one where they already know what's going to happen anyway. "OMG! France invaded the UK?! Heh, soon as Vietnam started selling banana juice in McDonalds, I knew it might trigger a European crisis of some sort. Oh well, some people may die, but I'm interested to see if my theory is correct - if all goes as I expect, this war should lead to the democratisation of the central Amazonian Watutu tribe and global thermonuclear war will happen 3000 years earlier than expected."

Note the abrupt, 'to-the-point' style of the INTJ, compared to the chaotic-but-logically-based babble of the INTP.
Lol, in my experience the INTJ would be more likely to predict future events and understand the implications of current ones than our INTP counterparts too busy saying I don't know, we'll see, I don't think we can know yet.

Another difference. We don't argue for the sake of arguing, like yaul do. It's because we actually disagree with you and are seeking truth. Not seeking to be right. We'll accept very quickly any arguments that change our viewpoint, and adjust our position accordingly. INTPs seem to be so hopeful that there is something that makes the superior argument wrong out there somewhere, to accept it.
 

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He doesn't dismiss the new data. Or disagree with my interpretations of it. When I clearly state its implications. He agrees with me. It just takes him a long time to realize that these implications require action and change.
Very simple ex: We originally were going with company As proposal to build a smaller, less expensive, station to see if it met our requirements, while also building a more capable one in another location. Company president changes his mind and wants a more capable operation. We get new bids and company A is more expensive than Company B for their upgraded bid. Why are we still going with company A? The original thought was the potential to save money in the long run if we find that the less capable station is sufficient. Its simple. But in his mind he doesn't switch. There no longer is any reason to go with company A, unless he proposes a good reason to do so. But, he doesn't. He just doesn't switch after the facts have changed.

That's a simple example. He is data driven. But he seems to require so much data to reach a conclusion it seems he had trouble thinking of the basic principles that caused us to reach a conclusion, so when something changes that is fundamental, its almost like he's not quick to recognize how important it is.
It's like getting lost in the math problem, he's still doing correct math, but he's not understanding the implications of each step, he's just doing the step.

You're blank board and jigsaw piece is a good example but for me it seems to work more like this for an INTJ:
Blank board-- Jigsaw pieces start to appear. I recognize a pattern and constantly asking why each piece is appearing where they are. Then there's an unpredictable moment of clarity where one piece appearing gives me a blueprint of the whole thing. So, as they are still appearing I'm constantly getting confirmation that I'm right. So, I'm screaming can't you see, this is what's happening. This is the pattern! And he almost has to see the whole egging Statue of Liberty being built, torch and all before he recognizes it.

With tedious work. Yes, you guys don't like it either. But what I consider tedious is not the same as what you guys seem to. I remember proving that switching to a different product was going to save "x" a shit ton of money. I made an excel spread with all the variables showing that it works and if we don't we will miss out on all this extra cash.
He takes it and spends days, weeks computing all these meaningless numbers that prove the exact same thing. Just organizing them in different ways. While, I'm already working on the outside variables and important real world implementation problems we might face.

:)
First example is dismissing data.

Second example is verifying data.
 

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As an ENTP I can't relate to the having trouble changing when I decide....and my INTP friends also don't have that trouble. However my ISTP friend, well that description fits him perfectly. Do you think your coworker is perhaps ISTP? They can be deceptively n-like, esp if involved in tech.

I love thinking about the future possibilities and would never say something like waiting till it comes!!! That's not at all how my thought process works as an NTP. Hell I'd be fine just hypothesizing ad naseum a situation that might very well *never* come! I totally get off on it.
 

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After reading more posts I can say almost definitely your coworker is ISTP.

And whoever said that INTP attach their ego to their choice and can't let it go...and intj don't...that made me chortle. Because if anything, it's the other way around! Both want to be objective....but being attached to a view because you had it, is really rooted in Fi and having a convergent perception process (Ni lead) that is very stressed to take in too much data at once (esp data that is contrary to the current global Ni view constructed in the INTJs mind).

Now, if being wrong means being embarassed amonst a group, then I could totally see an INTP defending an incorrect view of theirs, but that's totally different!

But INTP are very agile in changing their mind with new data.... and even enjoy it. That's Ti/Ne, and using a divergent perceptive process. HOWEVER, INTP are not necessarily good at tactics, because tactics requires speed. And speed means all the new possibilities must be thought out! INTJ are much more tactical, because they can reassess the new situation quickly via Ni. Really tactics is just the ability to quickly assess a situation and make a decent pragmatic decision (though not necessarily the best), INTJ forte.
 

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That's a simple example. He is data driven. But he seems to require so much data to reach a conclusion it seems he had trouble thinking of the basic principles that caused us to reach a conclusion, so when something changes that is fundamental, its almost like he's not quick to recognize how important it is.
It's like getting lost in the math problem, he's still doing correct math, but he's not understanding the implications of each step, he's just doing the step.
This part screams ISTP. screams!!! INTP are still intuitive, and use Si no less, so they arrive at conclusions very quickly based on similar past information that has somehow been related (much like ENTP). INTP may not be quick to a decision (conclusion and decision are totally different), that's not in question, but it's definitely not to collect more data! That is an Se characteristic: get more facts, so then once enough facts are present, can make an Ni idea of what's up. (ISTP).

INTP process is:

1. Look quickly at what's up.
2. Relate the Si impression of what's up to any number of Ne possibilities.
3. Make a Ti conclusion asap. Ti is dominant. The perception is quick.
4. Enter into "test mode", with Ti: make sure the answer is totally correct to the smallest detail.
5. If at any point while "Ti'ing it up", something is logically contradicted, go back to Ne/Si and look for why and develop a new conclusion.
6. Repeat 4 and 5 until they go blue in the face.
7. Years later: arrive at the decision they are happy with. Window of opportunity likely long gone, but they now know that blue M&Ms are in fact better than yellow ones!
:)

INTJ process is:

1. Look quickly what's up (notice a trend among the N's? not spending much time in the sensory world)
2. Identify which Se details are most obviously the biggest deal. This is entirely an intuitive process, and likely has no conscious thought behind it (may be skewed, but is usually quite good since INTJ are so good with Ni).
3. Using only those Se data points that seem most obviously relevant, make an Ni system that uses all of those data points and seems to fit the situation.
4. If no Ni solution is readily apparent - go do something entirely different, and wait for the answer to "dawn". Let Ni do its thing.
5. If an Ni solution is apparent, quickly start talking about it to others and try to convince everyone else this is the singular correct solution (Te)... you have "seen it in the stars" (haha okay that was a tiny jab, but I love you guys ;) )
6. Implement the solution as quickly as possible, as soon as everyone is on the same page. If there is any disagreement, vigorously debate until consensus is reached and the solution can be implemented. This may devolve into a "just trust me, it's correct" argument at some point as going over, or even determining, the details of an intuitive conclusion can be quite draining.

:)
 
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