[aprilkutie]

After taking a few assessments, I've gotten both INTJ and ISTJ results. I read the descriptions of sensing and intuition and the characteristics of people in both categories and I see myself as both very concrete and in the here and now, but I also see myself as someone good with patterns and inventive.
Can I just be both? Is that not fair to everyone else? :tongue:
How do I tell for sure?

 

[ThatName]

when you think outside of the box, and you're not too terribly worried about looking "crazy" to society, because you love to live your life as an independent thinker.

also, when nothing irritates you more than following the crowd or doing something just because everyone else does it, especially when that "something" makes no sense to you what-so-ever.

 

[Impavida]

I also test as ISTJ a lot of the time and can see myself in some of the descriptions. However, it just doesn't fit as well as INTJ does.

I've found it comes down to external vs internal for me. I interact with the world as an ISTJ, but I perceive it as an INTJ. So if the test questions are geared more towards behaviour, I'll show as ISTJ. Whereas if the questions are more slanted towards how you think and perceive the world, I'll test as INTJ.

 

[aprilkutie]

Well.... when you put it that way, I'm definitely an INTJ

 

[hoom]

Tests are *a good guess* at best... extremely inaccurate... either cross-reference 10 or so type descriptions to make a conclusion or look into cognitive functions (harder) and do some self-analysis Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes. Those methods tend to be accurate, the latter, more so, if done appropriately.

The theory also does not allow you to be 2 types.

 

[L'Empereur]

ISTJs have Si and Ne.
INTJs have Ni and Se.

 

[Owfin]

when you think outside of the box, and you're not too terribly worried about looking "crazy" to society, because you love to live your life as an independent thinker.

also, when nothing irritates you more than following the crowd or doing something just because everyone else does it, especially when that "something" makes no sense to you what-so-ever.

When you are that, you could be ISTJ or INTJ or ESFP or any other type.

ISTJs are Si dominants, meaning, they identify reality with their personal conceptions of it. To the Si dominant, the water isn't refreshing because it's the best way to describe that sensation sliding down your throat, it's refreshing because it is water, and water is a refreshing thing.

"I often think about the nature of things. Like how warmth is welcoming and comforting. Or how justice shows its goodness in cold ways. It is brutal, it is impartial, and yet it is always right."
-Philosophical Si In Action

To that end Introverted anything is simply the referencing of the self first. With the perception functions it is inner archetypal content that is being referenced. Introverted Sensing is the projection of your own manifestation of an archetype onto an object so that in essence your own personal perception of the object (the fire is inviting - an archetypal reference relating your own manifestation of what inviting is) becomes more important than the intrinsic qualities of the object (the fire is hot or orange). Extraverted Sensing simply sees the object as it is, without projecting anything more into it. So introverted sensing becomes a highly impressionistic perception, wherein how an object comes across to you takes precedence. So for example Ansel Adams would likely be a Se-type capturing the object as is, where Monet or Van Gogh would most certainly be Si-types (in fact Jung uses Van Gogh as a reference for Introverted Sensing).

 

[TaylorP]

There is a reason why they give you a percentage out of 100% . . . . .

So if you get 55% "N", then your 45% "S"
This should be straight forward. lol

 

[Abraxas]

Intuition is the opposite of sensing.

 

[nonnaci]

Intuition is the opposite of sensing.

In beebe's model, a hero Ni is actually most repulsed by a shadow demon Si. Its like searching for minutiae that is simply not there.

 

[beth x]

In beebe's model, a hero Ni is actually most repulsed by a shadow demon Si. Its like searching for minutiae that is simply not there.

I just love the way you explain Beebes model. I almost expect dragons and swords to be part of the explanation rather than the usual dry explanations.

Just as an aside. I forget the name of the theory this is based on where Si is placed in the physical most front of the right frontal lobe. I had to laugh when I examined my head scan which was taken for a pain disorder (turned out to be extreme food intolerance). It showed that as a matter of placement I had no Si as the frontal lobe on the right was slightly smaller than the left lobe. I was assured that my brain scan was normal (apart from having sinusitis, LOL). Demon Si indeed.

 

[nonnaci]

I just love the way you explain Beebes model. I almost expect dragons and swords to be part of the explanation rather than the usual dry explanations.

Just as an aside. I forget the name of the theory this is based on where Si is placed in the physical most front of the right frontal lobe. I had to laugh when I examined my head scan which was taken for a pain disorder (turned out to be extreme food intolerance). It showed that as a matter of placement I had no Si as the frontal lobe on the right was slightly smaller than the left lobe. I was assured that my brain scan was normal (apart from having sinusitis, LOL). Demon Si indeed.

The description from a INFJ site was quite elegant:
http://www.infj.com/BeebeOnINFJs.htm

Also, the slight asymmetry (twist) between the right/left hemispheres is mentioned in some ted talk. Sociology theory claims that historical influences have emphasized left-brain cognition since the birth of agriculture. Since cranial asymmetry is slower to adapt, the brain has decided to crook itself to gain more mass on one side.
http://www.ted.com/talks/iain_mcgilchrist_the_divided_brain.html

 

[Bumblyjack]

Depends on if it's The Original Series (INTJ)

...or the movies (ISTJ).

 

[Owfin]

In beebe's model, a hero Ni is actually most repulsed by a shadow demon Si. Its like searching for minutiae that is simply not there.

Whereas Si dominants perceive Ni as looking for meaning that is not there.

 

[nonnaci]

Whereas Si dominants perceive Ni as looking for meaning that is not there.

ISTJ: Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar...
INTJ: A cigar is never JUST a cigar!

 

[beth x]

The description from a INFJ site was quite elegant:
INFJ Archetypes

Also, the slight asymmetry (twist) between the right/left hemispheres is mentioned in some ted talk. Sociology theory claims that historical influences have emphasized left-brain cognition since the birth of agriculture. Since cranial asymmetry is slower to adapt, the brain has decided to crook itself to gain more mass on one side.
Iain McGilchrist: The divided brain | Video on TED.com

I finally got around to watching the TED talk earlier. Interesting. Since I'm a left hander with absolutely no idea whether I am lateralised with language or even anything it still is the fact that my left hemisphere (at least at the uppermost frontal lobe) is slightly larger. The only thing I do right handed is scissors and a bastardised left handed batting on the right hand side.

 

[Stan the Woz]

What people have said so far about the functions is accurate - anyone who's confused between INTJ and ISTJ needs to determine whether they have Ni/Se or Si/Ne.

Function descriptions

What I've noticed in application is that, for one thing, ISTJs are very good at taking information and remembering it - possibly the best type at doing so. So if you've noticed yourself having a penchant for memorizing things and taking in detail, you're more likely an ISTJ. If memorizing things doesn't come so naturally, it's more likely you're an INTJ.

 

[intjdude]

If you got both ISTJ and INTJ then you likely are just in the middle of S/N. The majority of the population falls in the center of all 4 dichotomies on a bell curve. This is why the functions model doesn't work. If it was true, you'd have spikes on the sides of the dichotomy S/N which don't come up in test data.

 

[Poptart]

Are you a prude? Religious? Traditional? Follow the rules? If "yes" to all, ISTJ. That's one of the major differences between us that I've observed.

Also, ISTJ and INTJ are actually very different types, despite being one letter apart. You need to become familiar with the cognitive functions and deduce your type that way, instead of taking online "MBTI indicators". For example, it should be obvious whether you have introverted or extraverted intuition.

 

[Owfin]

Are you a prude? Religious? Traditional? Follow the rules? If "yes" to all, ISTJ.

Because everybody calls themselves prudes, amiright?

And you say that, and then follow it with

You need to become familiar with the cognitive functions and deduce your type that way, instead of taking online "MBTI indicators".

But from what I understand of Si, it seems to have no features pointing intristically towards "Prude, religious, traditional (well, maybe if you used a very specific definition of the word), follow the rules." Some of these, like "follow the rules", would be linked to an ISTJ's Te more than anything, and auxiliary Te is something INTJs have too.