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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone ! I'm new here !

Yay, another INTJ/ISTJ thread...

I've look through similar threads, but I'm still unsure whether I'm a ISTJ or INTJ. The first few tests I did gave me the INTJ type. Then, I tried different tests (such as cognitive function test) and I get ISTJ. On cognitive function test, me Ni is usually with a low score. Te and Si are high.

I have many personallity traits that fit with ISTJ. I'm hard-working, tenacious, goal-oriented, security and family are important values of mine. When I set my mind to something, I go all-in and I dont stop until I make it. I like to plan stuff, I always have a plan A, plan B, plan C, etc. When I dont have a plan(wich rarely happen), I easily freak out. But, these traits are also compatible with INTJ, I guess.

I fit INTJ description 100% though. But since these types are rare (<2 % of the population ?) and I usually score low on Ni test...I doubt. Maybe it's just because I dont understand the Ni kind of question ? Maybe it's just a bias and I want to think I'm an INTJ lol. The thing is, I'm very future-oriented, I always think in long-term, I hate details. I'm really a big-picture guy. When I feel like I've mastered something, I get bored quickly. Like in college, I get A+s for the midterms, then when I realize I'm good...I stop caring. I'm a very quick thinker. I'm usually the first one to finish an assessment, always.

I guess I'm an INTJ...just dont know why I score low in Ni tests.
 

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Okay so here's my 2 cents. The description of an INTJ is highly misleading. It makes us sound a lot like ISTJs and glosses over the more whimsical aspects of our nature. Ni, is rather mystical in how it works and I'll openly admit that I don't do a lot of conscious logic in my decision making. I am more likely to accept the conclusion that Ni subconsciously gives me straight up then rationalise why this is correct, if the decision is important enough to warrant that.

Ni is a subconscious process that takes it data on the sly, catalogues it and then randomly pops out conclusions on the fly. It is not something I consciously think about. What it does is it maps patterns and buries those patterns deep in my subconscious, as soon as the same or similar pattern is detected it pings my conscious mind and I seemingly have an answer without even a question but I trust that answer possibly more than I really should. Most of the time the pattern recognition will be correct, but occasionally it is wrong and really should be questioned. This is why I say that Ni is rather mystical because it's an unseen rather than a conscious process. I'm really only about deductive reasoning and logic when I need to question the pattern or confirm it because I harbour some doubt about it.

This is how I operate the majority of the time, by trusting in a process that is difficult to explain and cannot be quantified. Now be honest with yourself, is that how you are operating most of the time?
 

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My guess is ISTJ. Your post reads like an open book, and lacks the mystery and cryptic about a typical INTJ post. Your post is also kind of thrown together rather than properly planned and structured and mulled over for a significant period of time. INTJs would probably not even consider bias nor talk themselves into a conclusion because they want it to be true, they are fans of fact, logic, and truth. Your language is very colloquial, a little odd for an INTJ text post, and your drive for goal-orientation is typically ISTJ. In my experience, ISTJs are the ones with the drive for success and goals and are honestly quite obsessive. INTJs may focus on a small or large picture, but they strive for knowledge and contribution rather than trying to "succeed". Their goals are smaller and more detailed, one on top of the other until the big picture comes into view. They analyse the little details to draw a strong argument and conclusion being very well-informed, and from the few arguments you've presented before declaring yourself INTJ, it doesn't add up. They focus on being GOOD and ANALYTICAL thinkers rather than "quick".

Experience: I've dated both ISTJ and INTJ and have friends of both types.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I like how by the end you talked yourself into being an INTJ.
Yeah haha !

Okay so here's my 2 cents. The description of an INTJ is highly misleading. It makes us sound a lot like ISTJs and glosses over the more whimsical aspects of our nature. Ni, is rather mystical in how it works and I'll openly admit that I don't do a lot of conscious logic in my decision making. I am more likely to accept the conclusion that Ni subconsciously gives me straight up then rationalise why this is correct, if the decision is important enough to warrant that.

Ni is a subconscious process that takes it data on the sly, catalogues it and then randomly pops out conclusions on the fly. It is not something I consciously think about. What it does is it maps patterns and buries those patterns deep in my subconscious, as soon as the same or similar pattern is detected it pings my conscious mind and I seemingly have an answer without even a question but I trust that answer possibly more than I really should. Most of the time the pattern recognition will be correct, but occasionally it is wrong and really should be questioned. This is why I say that Ni is rather mystical because it's an unseen rather than a conscious process. I'm really only about deductive reasoning and logic when I need to question the pattern or confirm it because I harbour some doubt about it.

This is how I operate the majority of the time, by trusting in a process that is difficult to explain and cannot be quantified. Now be honest with yourself, is that how you are operating most of the time?
Tough question. I feel like that's how my head works, but as obstructor point out, maybe I'm just talking myself into that. How can I be sure that's how I operate ?

On the opposite, how Si works ? I keep reading it's about past experience and memories and stuff like that but I just dont get it. I dont see how my past experience/sensation can be used into my thought process.

Let's take a real life example. My thesis in university is about optimizing a decision-taking tool for managers. How a Si would function ? When I work on an aspect of this tool, I'm not considering my past-experience, or sensation or whatever. And how a Ni would function ? I know that I mostly ask myself "why" or how it could be different and eventually an idea hit me. But, isnt it how we are supposed to think of new ideas ?

My guess is ISTJ. Your post reads like an open book, and lacks the mystery and cryptic about a typical INTJ post. Your post is also kind of thrown together rather than properly planned and structured and mulled over for a significant period of time. INTJs would probably not even consider bias nor talk themselves into a conclusion because they want it to be true, they are fans of fact, logic, and truth. Your language is very colloquial, a little odd for an INTJ text post, and your drive for goal-orientation is typically ISTJ. In my experience, ISTJs are the ones with the drive for success and goals and are honestly quite obsessive. INTJs may focus on a small or large picture, but they strive for knowledge and contribution rather than trying to "succeed". Their goals are smaller and more detailed, one on top of the other until the big picture comes into view. They analyse the little details to draw a strong argument and conclusion being very well-informed, and from the few arguments you've presented before declaring yourself INTJ, it doesn't add up. They focus on being GOOD and ANALYTICAL thinkers rather than "quick".

Experience: I've dated both ISTJ and INTJ and have friends of both types.
I'm not sure I understand you correctly. You say an INTJ write with a mystic/cryptic touch, then you say an INTJ post would have been planned, structured and mulled over. Isnt it contradictory ?
Then you say INTJ wouldnt talk about bias, then you conclude with INTJ focus on good and analytical thinking. Isnt that also contradictory ? A good analytical thinking must keep in mind the possible bias, right ?
Or maybe you just mean an INTJ focus on good analytical instead of speed ? I do both. I come up with the right answer, fast (I mean, in exams, and with minimum time studying). It's just that, I read somewhere that INTJ was processing quickly from frame to frame.
ISTJ arent also interrested in fact, logic and truth ? Isnt that the result of a Te auxilliary function for both type ?

I thought ISTJ were more details-oriented and INTJ more interrested in the big picture. I think my girlfriend is an ISTJ and I dont identify myself to this type. I'm messy, I forgot about mundane stuff, I talk to her about the ideas/projects/plans I recently have while she mainly talk about her day at the job, what she did, what she says...i rarely talk about these things...and I could keep going with the stereotype stuff.

My colloquial langage might be explained by the fact that I'm french and my english suck :p
 

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@Saintsqc This is an unfailable test. (Yes, there's a point.)

Tell me what you think of when I say "banana". I want at least ten words that relate to banana- as fast as you can, don't think about them, just go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
@Saintsqc This is an unfailable test. (Yes, there's a point.)

Tell me what you think of when I say "banana". I want at least ten words that relate to banana- as fast as you can, don't think about them, just go.
Haha that's fun

I think of a big toy-like banana that when you press it, it makes sound that amuse babies.
 

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Haha that's fun

I think of a big toy-like banana that when you press it, it makes sound that amuse babies.
haha sorry, I was unclear- like ten nouns (in the order you think them) that all somehow relate to a banana.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
haha sorry, I was unclear- like ten nouns (in the order you think them) that all somehow relate to a banana.
Oh boy...uuhhh

fruit
africa
vit c
potassium
banana chocolate cake
little tiny flies
fruit basket
monkey
grocery
belly ache (I'm intolerant)
sliding off the sidewalk (like in cartoons)
 

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Oh boy...uuhhh

fruit
africa
vit c
potassium
banana chocolate cake
little tiny flies
fruit basket
monkey
grocery
belly ache (I'm intolerant)
sliding off the sidewalk (like in cartoons)
hah this was funny. :kitteh:

All of these relate directly to the word banana.

Here's what I (an Ni user) would do:

banana
yellow
sun
bees
grass
groundhog
dirt
earthworm
lava
core
science
volcano

One thing leads directly to the other. I start with something and then narrow in on it- so it's more like a list. The Ne users in my life more throw out tons of ideas all related to the thing. It's like growing a tree straight up (Ni) vs sprouting tons of leaves off the sides (Ne).

As to Si/Ni... what expectations does your family have of you?

EDIT: If I'm describing something wrong, someone help a brutha out. This is how I've always characterized Ni/Ne, but I'm not the best with abstract metaphors on their own (as was probably kinda obvious).
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
hah this was funny. :kitteh:

All of these relate directly to the word banana.

Here's what I (an Ni user) would do:

banana
yellow
sun
bees
grass
groundhog
dirt
earthworm
lava
core
science
volcano

One thing leads directly to the other.
This is what I was about to do (I wrote poverty after africa, then erase it), because you said it has to be somehow related to banana. The slope I was about to get into was not related to banane, and I thought I was about to break your game. So I stick with stuff related to banana :(


What expectations my family have to me ? Uh, I dont know. Being happy with whatever I chose to do ? Being healthy....haha honestly, my parents never express their expectations. Cant say. As long as I'm fine, they are too I guess !
 

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This is what I was about to do (I wrote poverty after africa, then erase it), because you said it has to be somehow related to banana. The slope I was about to get into was not related to banane, and I thought I was about to break your game. So I stick with stuff related to banana :(


What expectations my family have to me ? Uh, I dont know. Being happy with whatever I chose to do ? Being healthy....haha honestly, my parents never express their expectations. Cant say
In that case, I'd say Si because you followed my directions :wink: my INTJ friends (with the exception of the 1w9) would be like "whatever" and just do what they wanted.

Okay, different tactic. Is tradition important to you? Do your past and all your past routines- not because of how they affect you now, but just for the simple fact that you're used to them and know what to expect- still have meaning for you?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
In that case, I'd say Si because you followed my directions :wink: my INTJ friends (with the exception of the 1w9) would be like "whatever" and just do what they wanted.
Meh, that's far-fetch.

Okay, different tactic. Is tradition important to you? Do your past and all your past routines- not because of how they affect you now, but just for the simple fact that you're used to them and know what to expect- still have meaning for you?
Traditions ? I have none. Not so long ago, I tried to have a "personnal tradition". Every thursday, I would drink a beer and watch a movie after my last class of the week. When I ran out of beer after a couple of weeks of doing it, I just dropped it. I like doing it...but I dont know...I dont see the point of doing it. Holydays have no meaning to me, I dont even say happy birthday to my friends. Only say it to my mom, dad and brother (if someone remind me...and I do it because I'm afraid to hurt them if I dont). I only like christmas because it's the only time of the year where I can see my parents and my brother at the same time (otherwise my brother is too far away). I hate buying gifts, I dont like receiving gifts. I hate going into my girlfriend's family gathering. And when I go, i prefer to stay with the kids than the adults because I can play with them and I dont have to put on a mask and fake having fun with small talk. Although, I like talking with her uncle. He started a business in computer science and we can talk about cool stuff (I would like to start a business some day, and I feel like he can teach me some valuable lesson). If I can't find good excuses, I go, otherwise my girlfriend's parents get pissed.

Routine ? I like having one...but mainly because I have a busy schedule and if I want to fit everything in, I need some structure. Otherwise, whenever sometime get cancelled, my routine get messy. I sometime do my paper work in the morning, sometime after midnight. Yesterday I couldnt sleep, so I work on my thesis up to 2am. Today I was supposed to study for an exam, but I kept on working on my thesis. I usually play first then work later.
 

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Meh, that's far-fetch.



Traditions ? I have none. Not so long ago, I tried to have a "personnal tradition". Every thursday, I would drink a beer and watch a movie after my last class of the week. When I ran out of beer after a couple of weeks of doing it, I just dropped it. I like doing it...but I dont know...I dont see the point of doing it. Holydays have no meaning to me, I dont even say happy birthday to my friends. Only say it to my mom, dad and brother (if someone remind me...and I do it because I'm afraid to hurt them if I dont). I only like christmas because it's the only time of the year where I can see my parents and my brother at the same time (otherwise my brother is too far away). I hate buying gifts, I dont like receiving gifts. I hate going into my girlfriend's family gathering. And when I go, i prefer to stay with the kids than the adults because I can play with them and I dont have to put on a mask and fake having fun with small talk. Although, I like talking with her uncle. He started a business in computer science and we can talk about cool stuff. If I can't find good excuses, I go, otherwise my girlfriend's parents get pissed.

Routine ? I like having one...but mainly because I have a busy schedule and if I want to fit everything in, I need some structure. Otherwise, whenever sometime get cancelled, my routine get messy. I sometime do my paper work in the morning, sometime after midnight. I usually play first then work later.
Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes
Try this.

As to the far-fetchedness- I was being facetious. :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Try this.

As to the far-fetchedness- I was being facetious. :)
Oh ! Haha okay :p

Already tried it, it gave me strong Si, Te and good Ni, Fi

I redid it...now strong Te, good Ti, Ne, Si

This test is stupid and strongly unreliable. I can spot the Ni question, but they make no sense. They are mostly gibberish and stereotypical. I could score strong Ni/Te if I want. But if I answer the questions as I feel them, that's the results I get. And I score Te question strongly...I'm in the academic field and I'm interrested in optimizing process...so yeah, obviously, I dont identify myself with the "mystic and magical" stuff and I have to rely on facts and data...otherwise I'll get screw over in my job. If I go to my boss and say "hey, I had a mystical vision and I'm sure I'm right, let's do this" he will laugh at me. I do have visions and hunches, but I must back them up with scientific evidence before speaking them up. And I do talk to my boss with "brilliant idea" I had while drinking my coffee in the morning. While these moments happen, I'm pretty confident in my thing and I believe I find a gold-nugget. Until he points all the flaws in my methodology and I'm back to square one. So, I must use my Te everyday, but that's not where my "juice" come from. But if I dont talk with my Te, my ideas wont get published.
 

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I do have visions and hunches, but I must back them up with scientific evidence before speaking them up. And I do talk to my boss with "brilliant idea" I had while drinking my coffee in the morning. While these moments happen, I'm pretty confident in my thing and I believe I find a gold-nugget. Until he points all the flaws in my methodology and I'm back to square one. So, I must use my Te everyday, but that's not where my "juice" come from. But if I dont talk with my Te, my ideas wont get published.
You sound like an ISTJ. I have a few college classmates who are ISTJs and they talk and think like you.

What I would hazard a guess with, is a generalization that "INTJs run with their vision and hunches, speak up about them, and then only when asked for, provide their reasoning for their hunches with Te." What you claim to do is that you have visions, but you verify them first through extensive research to provide a long list of evidences. THEN you speak about them.

As an INTJ, I find it a chore to back up all my hunches with scientific reasoning before speaking up about them. My Ni is continuously synthesizing ideas and concepts, and I just want to share my ideas and visions with the next person. However, there's too many visions, hunches, and "thoughts and ideas" inside my head that it would take days or weeks to really explain the way my mind works, and how it came to these conclusions. So for efficiency's sake, I filter what idea, out of the collection of ideas I have, that I will say to people to maximize the chance that they will believe in me. I then provide only one or two reasons (I choose the best possible reasons that would guarantee me a positive response) to back them up when asked. I would then deliver more reasons if prompt for, but I wouldn't go out of my way to build a list of reasons before speaking up about my hunch.

Also, when you wrote

Meh, that's far-fetch.



Traditions ? I have none. Not so long ago, I tried to have a "personnal tradition". Every thursday, I would drink a beer and watch a movie after my last class of the week. When I ran out of beer after a couple of weeks of doing it, I just dropped it. I like doing it...but I dont know...I dont see the point of doing it. Holydays have no meaning to me, I dont even say happy birthday to my friends. Only say it to my mom, dad and brother (if someone remind me...and I do it because I'm afraid to hurt them if I dont). I only like christmas because it's the only time of the year where I can see my parents and my brother at the same time (otherwise my brother is too far away). I hate buying gifts, I dont like receiving gifts. I hate going into my girlfriend's family gathering. And when I go, i prefer to stay with the kids than the adults because I can play with them and I dont have to put on a mask and fake having fun with small talk. Although, I like talking with her uncle. He started a business in computer science and we can talk about cool stuff (I would like to start a business some day, and I feel like he can teach me some valuable lesson). If I can't find good excuses, I go, otherwise my girlfriend's parents get pissed.

Routine ? I like having one...but mainly because I have a busy schedule and if I want to fit everything in, I need some structure. Otherwise, whenever sometime get cancelled, my routine get messy. I sometime do my paper work in the morning, sometime after midnight. Yesterday I couldnt sleep, so I work on my thesis up to 2am. Today I was supposed to study for an exam, but I kept on working on my thesis. I usually play first then work later.

The original question was "Is tradition important to you?"

And as an N-dom we'd start branching off from the idea of tradition to the social construction of tradition, and begin analyzing how effective it is or how ineffective it is... then our minds will wander off to question how many people, and how predominant, traditions are in our society and how that may be because of our current disposition as a capitalistic society that places importance on consumerism for holidays and traditions... and then we'd start thinking perhaps, how it would be different in a Marxist economy, or under different regimes. Or if they would be truly different at all, if the idea of tradition is completely innate, and if other biological organisms throughout geological time has exerted similar forms of tradition.

I'm just using this as an example of course, but I hope you can kind of see how the thought process of an INTJ is different than yours (who I presume to be an ISTJ). With your prompt, "Is tradition important to you?", you start talking about directly about what your traditions are, in great detail, providing a lot of information about what you prefer to do when you go to so and so's place, and so on. You subconciously zoom into detail, and retell your experiences in great precision, about the topic at hand, even differentiating between "I say and do explicitly X to friends, and Y to family". If I were you as an INTJ I wouldn't even be able to remember what I normally do (I'd just go "traditions? Uh, I just do, you know, whatever people do for X holiday").

Hope this helps!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Great post, thx !

You sound like an ISTJ. I have a few college classmates who are ISTJs and they talk and think like you.

What I would hazard a guess with, is a generalization that "INTJs run with their vision and hunches, speak up about them, and then only when asked for, provide their reasoning for their hunches with Te." What you claim to do is that you have visions, but you verify them first through extensive research to provide a long list of evidences. THEN you speak about them.
I would have thought "the scientists" type would have a "scientific background" lol.

I feel like I run on hunches and visions, but how can I be sure ? I definetely not run on "sensory experience" or "memories" or whatever...if that's how Si work.

What idea I decide to follow and complete is worth my scholarschip, school grant, academic visibility, etc. Whatever I decide to do, I might have to stick with it for the next year, even though if after a few months I realize it sucks and it's going nowhere. As I tried to explain, I just can't follow my favorite idea. It must be back up with a proper research. I have a ton of ideas for my project, but some of them are too time-consuming, expensive or lack the scientific evidence to justify my point of view. Before taking the time to discuss my ideas with my boss, I at least want to be sure that my ideas are solid enough to be argued over. If I have no arguments (read here : no scientific evidence to back me up), my idea wont be doable.

As an INTJ, I find it a chore to back up all my hunches with scientific reasoning before speaking up about them. My Ni is continuously synthesizing ideas and concepts, and I just want to share my ideas and visions with the next person. However, there's too many visions, hunches, and "thoughts and ideas" inside my head that it would take days or weeks to really explain the way my mind works, and how it came to these conclusions. So for efficiency's sake, I filter what idea, out of the collection of ideas I have, that I will say to people to maximize the chance that they will believe in me. I then provide only one or two reasons (I choose the best possible reasons that would guarantee me a positive response) to back them up when asked. I would then deliver more reasons if prompt for, but I wouldn't go out of my way to build a list of reasons before speaking up about my hunch.
I relate 100% to this. That's exactly how I operate. The thing is, to convince another scientist of a methodology or some kind of modifications, a list of scientific articles to back up your point is the most efficient arguments if you want to be believe.

Also, when you wrote




The original question was "Is tradition important to you?"

And as an Ni-dom we'd start branching off from the idea of tradition to the social construction of tradition, and begin analyzing how effective it is or how ineffective it is... then our minds will wander off to question how many people, and how predominant, traditions are in our society and how that may be because of our current disposition as a capitalistic society that places importance on consumerism for holidays and traditions... and then we'd start thinking perhaps, how it would be different in a Marxist economy, or under different regimes. Or if they would be truly different at all, if the idea of tradition is completely innate, and if other biological organisms throughout geological time has exerted similar forms of tradition.
Then, why isnt your post like that ?

Your post is structured, straight to the point with good and developped arguments. I dont see you branching off to ideas or anything that you described. Are you sure you are not an ISTJ too ?

I'm just using this as an example of course, but I hope you can kind of see how the thought process of an INTJ is different than yours (who I presume to be an ISTJ). With your prompt, "Is tradition important to you?", you start talking about directly about what your traditions are, in great detail, providing a lot of information about what you prefer to do when you go to so and so's place, and so on. You subconciously zoom into detail, and retell your experiences in great precision, about the topic at hand, even differentiating between "I say and do explicitly X to friends, and Y to family". If I were you as an INTJ I wouldn't even be able to remember what I normally do (I'd just go "traditions? Uh, I just do, you know, whatever people do for X holiday").

Hope this helps!
Ooooooh, is that how a Si dom would think ?

I dont know if it makes any difference, but I would never say such a things in real life. Way too detailed and private to speak this out loud. Now, I'm on a forum on personnality type, and I believe, the more I say, the easier it is for you guys to guide me.

But you make a good point, I did detailed my past experience. Do you know how a Si mind would work ? I relate to how people described Ni dom user...but maybe that's just because I dont understand how people describe Si. If I'm able to compare both Ni and Si, it would be easier to make the difference. Now, I just understand Ni.

You make assumption based by how I write my post and it's content. But I think it's a wrong way to go. Both ISTJ and INTJ are Te aux use, therefore, isnt that mean they express what there is in their mind in a similar way ? How can you tell whether or not my mind is branching off to dozens ideas by the time I type this sentence ? Because my sentence are straight to the point and concise is not a good reason. If I decided to filter these ideas to keep my post as simple as possible, you would never be able to tell what happen in my head ? Same goes for a Si user. How can you tell, only by his sentence, what happen in his head ? Maybe he thought of memories, past experience (or whatever, srsly, what is a Si mind ??), but since he know he is talking to an INTJ, maybe he changed his way of expression to be more easily understood ?










Also, what is the difference between a Ne fourth function VS a Se fourth function user ? Is that would be a good way to see the difference between an ISTJ or an INTJ ? Since both type have Te as aux fuction and Fi as third function....I guess there is strong similarities. The difference between these type are with their first and fourth function. I understand Ni as the dominant function, but I dont understand the Si as first, Ne as fourth and Se as fourth.
 

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Okay so here's my 2 cents. The description of an INTJ is highly misleading.
....


This is why I say that Ni is rather mystical because it's an unseen rather than a conscious process. I'm really only about deductive reasoning and logic when I need to question the pattern or confirm it because I harbour some doubt about it.

This is how I operate the majority of the time, by trusting in a process that is difficult to explain and cannot be quantified. Now be honest with yourself, is that how you are operating most of the time?
Well, actually, yes! Yellow Facial expression Green Emoticon Smile
 

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I'm not sure I understand you correctly. You say an INTJ write with a mystic/cryptic touch, then you say an INTJ post would have been planned, structured and mulled over. Isnt it contradictory ?
No. Mystic and cryptic implies that the INTJ may well have indeed mulled it over, planning and structuring, but they are disclosing only what they feel appropriate. They also are not at all fans of saying something which they feel is based on being ill-informed, and so INTJs will rarely just "say" something. Their mind does indeed move quickly from frame to frame, often so much so that details are left out in their sentences sometimes only because they cannot remember nor articulate how they ended up where they ended up. With an INTJ, you read between the lines a lot.

Then you say INTJ wouldnt talk about bias, then you conclude with INTJ focus on good and analytical thinking. Isnt that also contradictory ? A good analytical thinking must keep in mind the possible bias, right ?
INTJ will consider bias in an experiment, socially or otherwise, simply because they are good analytical thinkers. But the INTJ is a very objective type, meaning they observe situations rather than imagine themselves in situations or take things personally. They will of course consider bias, but what I meant was that they would never BE biased by nature or consider themselves to be biased. They wouldn't just "say", "but maybe I'm being biased" because they are objective observers by nature and it's very rare that they would be. Their conclusions are drawn from fact, rather than opinion.

Or maybe you just mean an INTJ focus on good analytical instead of speed ? I do both. I come up with the right answer, fast (I mean, in exams, and with minimum time studying). It's just that, I read somewhere that INTJ was processing quickly from frame to frame.
INTJ process quickly from frame to frame, but @maust got it right with the banana test. You might think of everything and anything to do with the subject directly, but you don't see the bigger picture. INTJs don't actually test that well in spite of their excessive intelligence, FOR the reason that they complicate things a bit too much, dancing around simple answers and questions in place for a bigger picture. Your tone is really saying ISTJ here too.

ISTJ arent also interrested in fact, logic and truth ? Isnt that the result of a Te auxilliary function for both type ?
In my experience, yes, of course, but they can't detatch enough to accept it if they don't like it. They cannot take criticism in the way an INTJ can. They're big into stats, data, facts, but a lot of it is just for support and filler. They don't want to analyse and challenge it so much as recite it. What I'm saying is that if I said the following:

"The stats say that contrary to popular belief, _____ actually doesn't exist, here's the data"

ISTJ: Wow, I wouldn't have thought that, but the facts are there from a reliable source, so I accept it.
INTJ: Hmm, interesting theory, supported evidence, but I'll do my own research to draw a properly informed conclusion and take it from there.

Now, if I said this:

"The way you treated me back there was really horrible and inappropriate. I cannot believe that you ___ in front of all of those people. It was really selfish and immature of you."

ISTJ: *immediately defensive* "No, you misunderstood me, I wasn't trying to do that, error in communication, plus if I did it was probably because you ____ and I'm sorry if you're upset but I don't think I was wrong"
INTJ: Will intently listen, spend a long time mulling it over, probably in silence, ask direct questions, and draw a conclusion from there. They will admit to being wrong if they were, they will demand they were not if they weren't
ISTJ will dance around it and get defensive and emotional, demanding they are right until LATER maybe thinking about it a little.

I thought ISTJ were more details-oriented and INTJ more interrested in the big picture.
ISTJ worries about minute insignificant details and INTJ builds details to build the big picture. ISTJ recites data to support where they want to go, worrying about goals. INTJ worries more about the journey.

I think my girlfriend is an ISTJ and I dont identify myself to this type.
Have you actually gotten her to take a test? An INTJ would, ISTJ would assume.

I'm messy, I forgot about mundane stuff, I talk to her about the ideas/projects/plans I recently have while she mainly talk about her day at the job, what she did, what she says...i rarely talk about these things...and I could keep going with the stereotype stuff.
INTJ keep a clinical workspace. They are known for extensively tedious monologues about the most mundane things in the world. They will probably think about something like washing the dishes if they can postulate a better soaping mechanism.
IDEAS/PROJECTS/PLANS - All ISTJ. All about what YOU are going to do next. Your gf is talking about the exact same thing anyway! INTJs typically talk about global things and rarely talk about themselves. They talk about ideas, sure, like everyone, but projects and plans are secondarily important to thought-processes.

My colloquial langage might be explained by the fact that I'm french and my english suck :p
Um, no, colloquial is colloquial. Right now, I am typing colloquially with "um no" and beginning sentences with "like". Like this. That was colloquial.


I think it's pretty clear to me that you're ISTJ. However you're unlikely to accept that without a fight if you are an ISTJ, because that's what they do. Plus you want to be an INTJ, and I can't blame you, because they're freaking awesome human beings.
 

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First of all, thx for this detailed post, I appreciate it.

Now, in bold, what I usually do :

No. Mystic and cryptic implies that the INTJ may well have indeed mulled it over, planning and structuring, but they are disclosing only what they feel appropriate. They also are not at all fans of saying something which they feel is based on being ill-informed, and so INTJs will rarely just "say" something. (For example : in meetings, when I speak, people listen to me, because they know what I have to say is valuable. Otherwise I keep my mouth shut Their mind does indeed move quickly from frame to frame, often so much so that details are left out in their sentences sometimes only because they cannot remember nor articulate how they ended up where they ended up. With an INTJ, you read between the lines a lot. (When I speak, I stutter a bit, I feel like my mouth isnt quick enough for my mind. I often have to re-do writing reports because I forgot to write important details, because for me, it was obvious at first)

What I'm saying is that if I said the following:

"The stats say that contrary to popular belief, _____ actually doesn't exist, here's the data"

ISTJ: Wow, I wouldn't have thought that, but the facts are there from a reliable source, so I accept it.
INTJ: Hmm, interesting theory, supported evidence, but I'll do my own research to draw a properly informed conclusion and take it from there. That's my usual reaction.

Now, if I said this:

"The way you treated me back there was really horrible and inappropriate. I cannot believe that you ___ in front of all of those people. It was really selfish and immature of you."

ISTJ: *immediately defensive* "No, you misunderstood me, I wasn't trying to do that, error in communication, plus if I did it was probably because you ____ and I'm sorry if you're upset but I don't think I was wrong"
INTJ: Will intently listen, spend a long time mulling it over, probably in silence, ask direct questions, and draw a conclusion from there. They will admit to being wrong if they were, they will demand they were not if they weren't. That's also my usual reaction.
ISTJ will dance around it and get defensive and emotional, demanding they are right until LATER maybe thinking about it a little Getting emotional in an argument ? I see that as a weakness, if it ever happen, i leave and come back when my mind is clear. I'm unable to get angry in an argument.


Have you actually gotten her to take a test? An INTJ would. Yes I did...but online test are heavily biaised...so how can I be sure of these results, ISTJ would assume.


IDEAS/PROJECTS/PLANS - All ISTJ. All about what YOU are going to do next. Your gf is talking about the exact same thing anyway! INTJs typically talk about global things and rarely talk about themselves. I dont usually talk about my self. And I do talk about global things...but what's the difference between an idea and global things ? An idea is global by itself, isnt it ? An idea touch many aspects of life, so I dont see your point here. They talk about ideas, sure, like everyone, but projects and plans are secondarily important to thought-processes.
Drawing conclusions from 5 posts is quite far-fetched and heavily biased.



INTJ will consider bias in an experiment, socially or otherwise, simply because they are good analytical thinkers. But the INTJ is a very objective type, meaning they observe situations rather than imagine themselves in situations or take things personally. They will of course consider bias, but what I meant was that they would never BE biased by nature or consider themselves to be biased. They wouldn't just "say", "but maybe I'm being biased" because they are objective observers by nature and it's very rare that they would be. Their conclusions are drawn from fact, rather than opinion.
Dont considering being biased is a bias in itself. IMO, considering being biased just show I'm able to detach myself from the situation to observe it truthfully. Because, as you said, I want to be an INTJ, and this alone, is a strong bias (look out for the "experimenter's bias"). I'm aware that I can't trust myself anymore because I'm a biased subject. If this isnt being an objective observer, I dont know what this is.

I think it's pretty clear to me that you're ISTJ. However you're unlikely to accept that without a fight if you are an ISTJ, because that's what they do.
Uh, isnt it the opposite ? My gf (if she's truly an ISTJ) hate arguing with me. She's lose his temper very quickly and she doesnt like it when I challenge her beliefs/knowledge too much. On the opposite, I like arguing, I think it's fun. My brother too likes arguing over whatever subject, and we both could on for hours. I never lose my temper over an argument (unless it's a "feeling" one, like being cheated or lied over).

IDEAS/PROJECTS/PLANS - All ISTJ. All about what YOU are going to do next.
My gf and I have very different way to plan things. She uses lists and her plans are precise and details. Mines are not. I dont use agendas, I dont use lists. I have long-term goals and I know what the steps are to reach my goal. I see life as a game of chess. I know quite well what I'm about to do in the next month, year and decade...but I couldnt write it down. I have a plan A, B, C, D, etc...but they are abstract in my head. I know what my next move will look like, but I dont know what is will be exactly, and when. I just know what my next step on my path should be. But I believe pretty much everyone envision their future the same way...
 
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