[Sed Non Satiata]

Hi, I was wondering if I could get some help with figuring out whether I am INTJ or INTP. I have read the descriptions for both and tested as both. I find myself agreeing with a lot of how each one is described. I think if I were to understand what the fundamental difference is in J and P and how this plays out in real life examples, I would be able to come to a decision. Are there questions you would recommend I ask myself?

More on why I waffle between the two:

While INTJ seems to be closer since I prefer to plan and tie-up loose ends, I also find the sciences to be a bit stifling. I like to see how each individual piece of a system works, and I think I start from details, connecting each piece as I go until I can come to a grander view of something. I like to make lists but I don't always follow through. Sometimes thinking about doing something is enough for me, and it never gets put into practice. Once something sparks my interest, I delve into it completely, going as far as each disparate thread will let me, sometimes jumping from related wiki page to wiki page for hours. I will never say I'm an expert in something because there is always something more to know, that is to say, the more I know, the less I know I know. But I will say that I often push past the superficial and try to get at the meat of things, while others seem to be happy to get a general idea and suffice with that.

I think the thing I don't like so much about INTJ is the "scientist" name. While I think consistency is a good thing and most helpful to coming to an understanding of something, I don't always work with rational thought. My religion of choice is pre-rational, and while there are certainly things that don't logically add up, that's beside the point.

I feel like maybe I rambled, but I hope this was clear enough

 

[Alaya]

Hi, I was wondering if I could get some help with figuring out whether I am INTJ or INTP. I have read the descriptions for both and tested as both. I find myself agreeing with a lot of how each one is described. I think if I were to understand what the fundamental difference is in J and P and how this plays out in real life examples, I would be able to come to a decision. Are there questions you would recommend I ask myself?

Hi Sed Non Satiata,

Let me start by saying that people who are just beginners with the MBTI are only scratching the surface as to how your personality works out. The tests that one takes on the internet only measure how of an introvert/extrovert, intuitive/sensing and thinking/feeling you really are, but it doesn't tell you anything of why you have those preferences to begin with and of how those preferences are going to affect your daily interactions with people and the world around you. After you take the test, you are presented with a series of descriptions that sort of correlate with how a typical personality type behaves, but it doesn't tell you exactly anything about how YOU behave because they are all based on stereotypes and generalizations that some people may or may not relate to. For example, the stereotypical and generalized version of an INTP is that of the aloof professor who is stuck in his mind and is socially inept. This may be true of some INTP's, but that isn't necessarily always the case. What about the INTJ, like you said, some descriptions portray the INTJ as a science geek who loves to read and is interested in all sorts of complicated endeavors. Again, this may be true of some but not all. I'm not bashing the MBTI in any way, since it serves as a really good starting point to learn about personality types. However, if you really want to learn about how all this relates to you, you need to look more deeply into the realm of the Jungian functions, temperaments and communicating styles so you have a broad view of what makes you, YOU.

While INTJ seems to be closer since I prefer to plan and tie-up loose ends, I also find the sciences to be a bit stifling. I like to see how each individual piece of a system works, and I think I start from details, connecting each piece as I go until I can come to a grander view of something

.

Like I said above, just because you're an INTJ, it doesn't mean that you have to like science. The reason that they associate INTJ with science is that INJ's in particular like to create systems to somehow manipulate the variables that result in predictable outcomes. This of course, is the realm of science. However, this could also be applied to numerous things like marketing, business and other types of careers. Basically, INTJ's are logical individuals who like to have a systematic approach to how they come to decisions. Once you look into the INTJ's functions you can see why that happens. This personality type is dominated by introverted intuition(Ni) which is a function that perceives information, and extraverted thinking(Te) is the INTJ's auxiliary function that helps the individual make decisions coming from its perceiving function(Ni). I'm not going to go into detail about this because there are various resources on this forum that can help you learn about a type's functions. From what you said in the above quote, this does seem like what an INTJ is likely to do.

Sometimes thinking about doing something is enough for me, and it never gets put into practice

.
This is very INTP like(yes, another stereotype, sorry folks ). Let me put the INTP perspective into the table.

INTP's are very much interested in understanding systems as far as they can go. Introverted thinking(Ti) is the INTP's primary function which they use to take apart ideas,concepts or any kind of system and understand it fully. For example, they might see a computer and ask themselves "how do computers function?" Their Ti is pondering upon the system of computers as to what they are composed of and how it makes it function. They might learn about the hardware, the software, memory and so on and understand the components of each to its totality. Unlike the INTJ, however, who is interested in manipulating the variables(in this case the computer hardware to see predictable results), the INTP is only content in observing the object and coming with an understanding of the computer itself. So this way, the INTP seems more detached from it's environment than the INTJ does. The INTJ strives to manipulate the environment, while the INTP strives to just understand it.

But I will say that I often push past the superficial and try to get at the meat of things, while others seem to be happy to get a general idea and suffice with that.

Again, very INTP like. See above description for more information.

I think the thing I don't like so much about INTJ is the "scientist" name. While I think consistency is a good thing and most helpful to coming to an understanding of something, I don't always work with rational thought. My religion of choice is pre-rational, and while there are certainly things that don't logically add up, that's beside the point.

I feel like maybe I rambled, but I hope this was clear enough

My diagnosis is that you're an INTP based on the limited information that you've shared with us thus far. I recommend that you look into typological functions to understand fully of how this taxonomy works.

Good luck

 

[Sed Non Satiata]

Hi Sed Non Satiata,

Let me start by saying that people who are just beginners with the MBTI are only scratching the surface as to how your personality works out. The tests that one takes on the internet only measure how of an introvert/extrovert, intuitive/sensing and thinking/feeling you really are, but it doesn't tell you anything of why you have those preferences to begin with and of how those preferences are going to affect your daily interactions with people and the world around you. After you take the test, you are presented with a series of descriptions that sort of correlate with how a typical personality type behaves, but it doesn't tell you exactly anything about how YOU behave because they are all based on stereotypes and generalizations that some people may or may not relate to. For example, the stereotypical and generalized version of an INTP is that of the aloof professor who is stuck in his mind and is socially inept. This may be true of some INTP's, but that isn't necessarily always the case. What about the INTJ, like you said, some descriptions portray the INTJ as a science geek who loves to read and is interested in all sorts of complicated endeavors. Again, this may be true of some but not all. I'm not bashing the MBTI in any way, since it serves as a really good starting point to learn about personality types. However, if you really want to learn about how all this relates to you, you need to look more deeply into the realm of the Jungian functions, temperaments and communicating styles so you have a broad view of what makes you, YOU.

I suspected as much. Generalizations only work up to a point.

Like I said above, just because you're an INTJ, it doesn't mean that you have to like science. The reason that they associate INTJ with science is that INJ's in particular like to create systems to somehow manipulate the variables that result in predictable outcomes. This of course, is the realm of science. However, this could also be applied to numerous things like marketing, business and other types of careers. Basically, INTJ's are logical individuals who like to have a systematic approach to how they come to decisions. Once you look into the INTJ's functions you can see why that happens. This personality type is dominated by introverted intuition(Ni) which is a function that perceives information, and extraverted thinking(Te) is the INTJ's auxiliary function that helps the individual make decisions coming from its perceiving function(Ni). I'm not going to go into detail about this because there are various resources on this forum that can help you learn about a type's functions. From what you said in the above quote, this does seem like what an INTJ is likely to do.

I see. On my part I like to understand and then arrange/organize explanations and then share them with others, because I like to transmit ideas, while on the other hand I don't seek to "change" things so much as accurately categorize them for my own personal mental world. Since I have a feeling this next project is going to include a flooding of more information, are there any jumping off points that you recommend me to begin with?

INTP's are very much interested in understanding systems as far as they can go. Introverted thinking(Ti) is the INTP's primary function which they use to take apart ideas,concepts or any kind of system and understand it fully. For example, they might see a computer and ask themselves "how do computers function?" Their Ti is pondering upon the system of computers as to what they are composed of and how it makes it function. They might learn about the hardware, the software, memory and so on and understand the components of each to its totality. Unlike the INTJ, however, who is interested in manipulating the variables(in this case the computer hardware to see predictable results), the INTP is only content in observing the object and coming with an understanding of the computer itself. So this way, the INTP seems more detached from it's environment than the INTJ does. The INTJ strives to manipulate the environment, while the INTP strives to just understand it.

This was a very helpful example!

My diagnosis is that you're an INTP based on the limited information that you've shared with us thus far. I recommend that you look into typological functions to understand how this taxonomy works.

Good luck

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain things.

 

[Alaya]

Since I have a feeling this next project is going to include a flooding of more information, are there any jumping off points that you recommend me to begin with?

This website is good to understand a little bit about type functions. Take the information provided here with a grain of salt, since the author may be a bit biased but I think she does a good job giving the basics of each function.

Function Attitude

This next website is a test that gives you a picture of what are your most used functions. It's a long test but it has helped me a lot to understand what all this is about. If you want, you can post your results here and see what comes up.

Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes

Of course, this forum has lots of information about each particular type. If you have time in your hands, look at each forum and read about their respective personality types. It's a lot of research but I think it's worth it.

 

[Sed Non Satiata]

If you want, you can post your results here and see what comes up.

I took the test from the second link and this is what I got:

Cognitive Process Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
extraverted Sensing (Se) *********************** (23.6)
limited use
introverted Sensing (Si) **************************** (28.4)
average use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ****************************** (30.8)
good use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) *********************************************** (47)
excellent use
extraverted Thinking (Te) *************************** (28)
average use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ****************************************** (42.8)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ************ (12.4)
unused
introverted Feeling (Fi) *************************** (27.6)
average use

Summary Analysis of Profile
By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: INTJ

Lead (Dominant) Process
Introverted Intuiting (Ni): Transforming with a meta-perspective. Withdrawing from the world and focusing your mind to receive an insight or realization. Checking if synergy results. Trying out a realization to transform things.

Support (Auxilliary) Process
Extraverted Thinking (Te): Measuring and constructing for progress. Making decisions objectively based on evidence and measures. Checking if things function properly. Applying a procedure to control events and complete goals.

If these cognitive processes don't fit well then consider these types: ENTJ, or INTP

From the first link on Functions I very much identified with Ni and was wondering why it was that although INTJ has Ni as a characteristic, that it is expressed through Te...I do not think that if something can't be measured then it isn't real. This seems to contradict the Ni. It says on the wiki page for INTJ that the dominant function is the preferred role and then the Auxiliary the support for the dominant. I don't really understand why this is and after a bit of searching I still haven't found a good explanation for how this conclusion is made. Could you help clarify a bit further?

 

[Sed Non Satiata]

Actually, I retook the test again and I thought really hard about what I would do, and here are the results:

Cognitive Process Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
extraverted Sensing (Se) ************************ (24.2)
average use
introverted Sensing (Si) ****************************** (30)
average use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ****************************** (30.4)
good use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) *********************************************** (47.6)
excellent use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ********************* (21.5)
limited use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ******************************************** (44.4)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ************** (14.1)
unused
introverted Feeling (Fi) **************************** (28.2)
average use

Summary Analysis of Profile
By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: INTP

Lead (Dominant) Process
Introverted Thinking (Ti): Gaining leverage (influence) using a framework. Detaching to study a situation from different angles and fit it to a theory, framework or principle. Checking for accuracy. Using leverage to solve the problem.

Support (Auxilliary) Process
Extraverted Intuiting (Ne): Exploring the emerging patterns. Wondering about patterns of interaction across various situations. Checking what hypotheses and meanings fit best. Trusting what emerges as you shift a situation’s dynamics.

If these cognitive processes don't fit well then consider these types: ENTP, or INTJ

Some of the answers I read again and thought, "Wait...what? No, I don't do that, why did I choose that?" I think often what happens is I'll say what I think is a good idea, but that doesn't always mesh with what I actually do, thus the congruence. Thanks for all your help. I really think INTP is the one. I still would like a clarification for the post above, if you don't mind taking the time.

 

[Alaya]

From the first link on Functions I very much identified with Ni and was wondering why it was that although INTJ has Ni as a characteristic, that it is expressed through Te...I do not think that if something can't be measured then it isn't real. This seems to contradict the Ni

Remember one thing, Ni is a perceiving irrational function. By irrational it means that it's outside of the person's conscious control. As a result, the INJ is constantly gathering information in forms of abstractions that isn't readily understandable to others. This is where Te comes into play and actually makes sense of that information and puts into a framework of ideas and beliefs. When you see an INTJ, what you're actually seeing is his/her extraverted function, Te, which makes it seem that an INTJ is practical and confident, but what you don't usually see is the amount of symbolism and abstract connotations that are formulating in its head at the same time because his intuition is oriented towards himself.

It says on the wiki page for INTJ that the dominant function is the preferred role and then the Auxiliary the support for the dominant. I don't really understand why this is and after a bit of searching I still haven't found a good explanation for how this conclusion is made. Could you help clarify a bit furthe?

Each personality type has a dominant, auxiliary(supporting), tertiary, inferior and shadow functions. So for the INTJ, it's dominating function is the Ni(which gathers information), supported by Te(which makes a decision based on the information gathered by Ni) and if need to be relies on it's tertiary(introverted feeling;Fi) function and so on. A simple example of how a person may use Ni-Te is when I cut myself with a pair of scissors. Ni gathers the necessary information such as the amount of blood coming out of the cut, the type of scissors that I was using and other variables that need to be considered. Te then comes along and concludes that those scissors were infected by some terrible disease and now you could potentially be infected as a result.

Any other person that used another function probably could have come with a different conclusion, but Ni is always asking "what if", then Te says" lets check if Ni is correct".

Some of the answers I read again and thought, "Wait...what? No, I don't do that, why did I choose that?" I think often what happens is I'll say what I think is a good idea, but that doesn't always mesh with what I actually do, thus the congruence. Thanks for all your help. I really think INTP is the one. I still would like a clarification for the post above, if you don't mind taking the time

Well if you're an INTP, you're functions are nothing like the INTJ. As a matter of fact, they're all reversed.

An INTJ's functional process goes Ni-Te-Fi-Se; while an INTP's process goes like Ti-Ne-Si-Fe.

So an INTP's information gathering function is oriented towards the external environment(Ne), while its decision making function is oriented towards the individual itself(Ti), unlike the INTJ that perceives internally(Ni) and makes decisions outwardly(Te).

I apologize for all the redundancy, but sometimes it's necessary to repeat things in order to get your point across lol

 

[Sed Non Satiata]

Well if you're an INTP, you're functions are nothing like the INTJ. As a matter of fact, they're all reversed.

An INTJ's functional process goes Ni-Te-Fi-Se; while an INTP's process goes like Ti-Ne-Si-Fe.

So an INTP's information gathering function is oriented towards the external environment(Ne), while its decision making function is oriented towards the individual itself(Ti), unlike the INTJ that perceives internally(Ni) and makes decisions outwardly(Te).

I apologize for all the redundancy, but sometimes it's necessary to repeat things in order to get your point across lol

Thank you for the examples. The functional process thing is really interesting. When put side by side it is a bit easier for me to see how they are different. I ended up taking the test a third time and then averaged my results to see what comes out on top since my answers tend to verify in strength depending on my mood. It came out that I'm an INTJ after all, but since my Ti was also very high I was thinking it was very similar to INTP. Thank you again!

Edit: I'm going to continue to learn more about it further, by no means does it stop here. I'm currently reading about the functions and I'm finding that I sound more like INTP even though I test as both. Curious. I'll have to evaluate each of the statements made in the test and figure out why I answered what I did. Thank you again for the links.

 

[vel]

... I like to see how each individual piece of a system works, and I think I start from details, connecting each piece as I go until I can come to a grander view of something.

Yes this kind of connecting things into one model is result of having intuition dominant. Intuition likes to interconnect many details together into one single whole something.

Once something sparks my interest, I delve into it completely, going as far as each disparate thread will let me, sometimes jumping from related wiki page to wiki page for hours. I will never say I'm an expert in something because there is always something more to know...
I think the thing I don't like so much about INTJ is the "scientist" name

"The Scientist" label comes from process you have described - striving to study something in depth, seeking out possibilities and connects that might be out there that you haven't discovered yet, feeling that more exists beyond what you already know. Don't think of the word "scientist" rigidly - it is more symbolic of kind of thought process rather that career type or religion choice.

Here is detailed INTP profile: http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html
See if you can relate to it, though my hunch is that you are intuition dominant.