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(I"m an INTJ dating an INFP)
Generally at night she is "reckless". She used to go on drives or walks at night regularly. Right now we're texting (We're LDR at College). She says,

"Heres the thing. I need more emotional responses from you, and since i dont get them i subconsciously stir things up and cause stress to create emotional reactions that than ead to reconciliation which gives feeling of being connected. I cant keep doing it. Its tiring. I didnt realize that was my pattern untill laying here thinking about it."

"I start the day mostly always happy. We talk. And its great. By night time i am tired and want more connection which i often dont seem to feel like i get so I go to bed grumpy or dissatisfied."

"I still go to bed four night out of seven wanting to die. Thats never changed. No matter how close i am to God or not, it doesnt change). It sometimes makes it worse because than i am just more aware of my faults and failures. In a relationship all my focus goes there and magnifies. So than I project crap onto the other person."

I'm a smart guy. But I don't get this "emotional connection stuff." She can't explain it. We txt throughout the day. I talk to her and she talks back and vicaversa. Where's the emotional connection come in? How can I facilitate that?

Is there anything she can do about her regrets and self-dislike that she feels?

What about her feeling good in the morning and in the day, but crappy and emotionally needy/lost/dissatisfied at night?

It's frustrating. I want to make her happy. But I know a lot of this I can't fix. And the rest I don't know what to do. :S

Thanks for the feedback,
Cheers.
 

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get out while you can! haha :D

Sorry I don't have more, generally this is the point where I'd add something insightful-ish in, but I'm still trying to figure out how girls work too.

hrmm, reading over it a few times...

I realise I'm a guy and perhaps I'm totally wrong but I'd say you just have to reinforce and remind her you're there for her. something like "I'm here for you, whenever you need, you can lean on me". Don't afraid to be lame and sickly. It sounds like she's got some kind of insecurities that get the better of her and make her think perhaps you don't care so you'll have to keep reinforcing it imo.

Seeing that she seems to subconsciously stir stuff up, or so she says, I guess you're just going to have to beat her to the punch and do something that shows you care, breakfast in bed, write her something, drive around to her place at 1 in the morning just to give her a hug.
 

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MOTM Dec 2012
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Having counseled an INTJ/INFP married couple before, i'd say it's damn near impossible to reconcile the fact that their needs are so different. The INTJ guy that I knew had no idea how to express his feelings, whereas the INFP girl could not get over the reality that her INTJ was so emotionally cold. They clicked more on the Intuitive level, where they would talk about abstract and idealistic things. But when it came to discussing feelings/emotions, things just didn't work out. The INTJ simply wanted companionship, whereas the INFP wanted deep emotional bonding.

I tried to counsel the INTJ that it was okay to explore and admit his deep inner feelings, but he kept telling me the only thing that ever evoked such an emotional response was when he was around nature. The INFP OTOH didn't care about nature, nor did she care about the fact that HE cared about nature. Needless to say, they didn't have much in common when it came to emotional responses. I also tried to get the INTJ out of his dependence on his logical box. I asked him to try to be more spontaneous and to notice what the INFP liked. Be curious, be genuinely interested in her interests.

That's all I got right now, i'm tired...maybe I'll continue later...
 

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I think with emotional connection she means she would like to discuss her emotions with you and would like to get an emotional response from you in return. Basically the emotional connection stems from you caring and interacting with her in an emotional way rather than in an analytical logical way. I know you may not feel emotional, but you can still show her warmth and affection, especially since she seems to feel depressed, if you show her some warmth she could feel more comfortable opening up to you about it.
 

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Are you happy in your relationship, therealdrag?

It's important not to trivialise her needs, but her acting out to get more from you, doesn't sound very healthy to me. It's good she's being honest about how she feels, but I think a lot of these questions, she needs to ask her self. Her tendency may not to be to find solutions, but simply to want support. It's harder to give support when the answers seem a little more obvious to an outsider. You may be more comfortable looking at solutions, but sometimes she'll not what to hear solutions, and would rather you empathise with what she's going through (if you can).

I would suggest being gentle with her, but recognise that she needs to come to the table too. You also have needs and you do not deserve to be some dependent source of emotional validation for her, and that's all. I would ask her what she wants of you, otherwise you'll keep scratching your head, and being frustrated (oh I just re read the OP, you did ask >.<). She may not willing to be direct about it, so if you ask her, give her time to respond (I don't really relate to not being direct about these things, but I'm assuming your lady isn't too confident doing so). You may be able to get it out of her by asking her adjacent questions.. "how can I help you right now"? if you're desperate and she's not opening up, try a few things, and see what her response is. You can't be expected to be a mind reader, so perhaps mentioning open communication is important in order for you both to be happy, might help. Ask her how she likes to feel loved. She can do a 'love styles' quiz online if she can't think properly. Then you'll get more of an insight into how she feels loved and supported. Some people need a lot of words of support, other people need physical affection more than anything.

If her needs are excessive, I think you need to re evaluate your relationship with her. You can only do your best, and if she cannot accept the limits of your capacities, I doubt she's ready to be in a relationship.

Can I mention too, that i've seen a lot of people have troubles with nf's (especially infps') when the communication happens by text, so be careful. So much miscommunication occurs.
 

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She seems to need to talk a lot....ENFP? My ex bf was ESFP & wanted to talk on the phone everyday. It annoyed me. I need SPACE.

"Heres the thing. I need more emotional responses from you, and since i dont get them i subconsciously stir things up and cause stress to create emotional reactions that than ead to reconciliation which gives feeling of being connected. I cant keep doing it. Its tiring. I didnt realize that was my pattern untill laying here thinking about it."
INFPs often connect to people via fantasy, as our imaginative world of the ideal can feel more real & satisfying, that is, at least when reality is not providing what we need. This puts you in danger of becoming a fantasy to her, representing an ideal that you can never live up to, and then she will get disappointed with you and leave.

"I start the day mostly always happy. We talk. And its great. By night time i am tired and want more connection which i often dont seem to feel like i get so I go to bed grumpy or dissatisfied."
IDK...I'm going with ENFP on this one.

"I still go to bed four night out of seven wanting to die. Thats never changed. No matter how close i am to God or not, it doesnt change). It sometimes makes it worse because than i am just more aware of my faults and failures. In a relationship all my focus goes there and magnifies. So than I project crap onto the other person."
Hmm.....I'd say nothing lives up to her ideals, and when she's in a relationship, it becomes her focus, so her ideals revolve around it, which means it will never be enough. Refer back to the top..... She needs something real to prevent the fantasy from taking over & leading to dissatisfaction with you.

I'm a smart guy. But I don't get this "emotional connection stuff." She can't explain it. We txt throughout the day. I talk to her and she talks back and vicaversa. Where's the emotional connection come in? How can I facilitate that?
If she really is INFP, then think quality and not quantity. I know I feel close to people when they open up to me about how they feel - this does not have to mean emotions, but what is important to them. What is important to you? What are your goals & dreams? If you want to delve into emotions, then what makes you feel vulnerable? Of course, also express how you feel about her. INFPs are conceptual and will find such talk to bond far more than a mere exchange of info. Talking about my day or relating facts about my life can feel mundane to me. I connect through sharing the abstract parts of people; only then can I connect them to an ideal, and only then are my emotions really stirred and will I feel something towards them. I want to know what someone thinks, feels, dreams, hopes, etc. I also like meaty discussions - I want a mind-mate as much as a soul-mate. Intellectual connection is important; I think a lot of INFPs are this way. What are your current conversations like?

The more human you seem, the more the reality of you surpasses the ideal fantasy, because it's you being connected to the ideal, not a fantasy. Otherwise, you're just a face to project an image onto.

Everything does not have to be heavy of course. Playful banter is nice...INFPs appreciate imaginative talk. You can get really abstract with us; we get it. Your humor can be a bit dark; we may find it a relief, as we have a dark side. Of course, talking to her & finding out what she specifically needs as an individual is best, but since she's having trouble describing it, you might try a "typical INFP" approach.

Hope that helps...if she needs constant contact though, seriously consider ENFP....
 

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(I"m an INTJ dating an INFP)
Generally at night she is "reckless". She used to go on drives or walks at night regularly. Right now we're texting (We're LDR at College). She says,

"Heres the thing. I need more emotional responses from you, and since i dont get them i subconsciously stir things up and cause stress to create emotional reactions that than ead to reconciliation which gives feeling of being connected. I cant keep doing it. Its tiring. I didnt realize that was my pattern untill laying here thinking about it."

"I start the day mostly always happy. We talk. And its great. By night time i am tired and want more connection which i often dont seem to feel like i get so I go to bed grumpy or dissatisfied."

"I still go to bed four night out of seven wanting to die. Thats never changed. No matter how close i am to God or not, it doesnt change). It sometimes makes it worse because than i am just more aware of my faults and failures. In a relationship all my focus goes there and magnifies. So than I project crap onto the other person."

I'm a smart guy. But I don't get this "emotional connection stuff." She can't explain it. We txt throughout the day. I talk to her and she talks back and vicaversa. Where's the emotional connection come in? How can I facilitate that?

Is there anything she can do about her regrets and self-dislike that she feels?

What about her feeling good in the morning and in the day, but crappy and emotionally needy/lost/dissatisfied at night?

It's frustrating. I want to make her happy. But I know a lot of this I can't fix. And the rest I don't know what to do. :S

Thanks for the feedback,
Cheers.
I used to think it was just me, but from reading this board I've realised that most INFPs are "night" people, not morning people and it's fairly normal that we feel restless at night and go to bed way too late. We all seem to have bad posture too, no idea if coincidence or if that goes with the character too.

Your gf is, like most INPFs I dare say, very self aware, but also she is very good at communicating her feelings to you. My jaw dropped a bit when I read what she said to you about stirring things up so she can feel an emotional connection when you make up again, because it's a thought that has crossed my mind too in the past. It's like you get emotionally bored and need to make something happen. You can't make an INTJ do or say anything they don't want to and they don't seem to express affection in a way we understand, so stirring things up is a pretty good way to achieve the emotional catharsis. The main difference is, my INTJ friend would have to torture me before I owned up I do such a thing and I would try very hard to deny it to myself too. First because I think it's manipulative and passive aggressive and I very much dislike both conducts in me and secondly and most importantly, because we INFPs HATE conflict. I can't stress this enough. Your girlfriend must be feeling pretty emotionally neglected to resort to something we naturally hate so much to get what she needs from you. She feels tired because conflict is tiring, and horrible and it makes us exhausted and needy and insecure.

It's really hard to interpret what happens in someone's head, specially someone you don't know and I don't know you or your gf, but the only explanation I can give you for the waking up happy and ending the day needy is: we INFPs have somewhat unrealistic expectations of what life and relationships should be like. It's normal to have moments where we think everything is going to be great and then we are grumpy when we realise there is a massive gap between reality and how we think things should be. Maybe this is what happens regularly to your gf. it happens to me regularly but the time span is months, not days, but we are all different.

The emotional "connection" is extremely hard to explain, it's either there or not. Let me give you an example, a little facetious so it's easier to get the gist..

INTJ--> Hi lovely, I've just had a bagel. Burp. *i am showing you are part of my life by sharing*
INPF--> Great! *hm yeah lovely, I love bagels too, but I can't see love anywhere in that statement*

So a whole day of communication like that, even if it's 50 text messages has no emotional value for the INPF. Result, at night they start feeling like something is missing and what's the point of investing a lot emotionally if they are getting nothing back blah blah. Plus we don't do quantity, we do quality. We don't smother people with 50 emails a day and we don't like to be smothered either.

But look at this little exchange:

INTJ-->Hi lovely, I've just listened to xxx song on the radio and it reminded me of you the other day when..blah blah
INFP--> lol thats funny! *aww he is thinking about me I think I am going to take five minutes to absent mindedly think about this and feel warm and funny inside, please do not disturb, infp engaged in inner dialogue until further notice*


So, I know this way of talking is completely alien to INTJs, in fact the only person I've ever heard doing things like sending a pic of a sunset with a text message saying I took this pic thinking of how nice it would be to hold your hand under that beautiful sky, was an ENFJ...but maybe it's worth having in mind that INFPs appreciate if you personalise what you say to them and you show your affection in a very clear way. The typical INTJ: "but I am here, that must mean I like you, dont you think"? REALLY doesn't cut the mustard with an INFP.

And perhaps the last thing you should be aware of, is that affection for us has a sell by date. Let me explain this, when you say "I love you" to an INFP, it does eventually expire and if you don't want them to get restless you have to go and say it "again". And I am sorry to say, but again and again. Did I say you have to keep on saying it? We interpret silence as negative, as he doesnt think of me that way anymore otherwise he would say it more often. I think you INTJs totally hate repeating yourselves, so if you don't say anything it means nothing has changed.

Good luck! I hope this helps, I am rambling now lol :tongue:
 

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gotta make it personal. INFP's are drawn to personal interaction. like Flora said, try to connect things to her, even though it may seem ridiculous.
 

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She wants to know what you're feeling and thinking -- your deepest thoughts. If you share those with her and she shares hers with you, that is the "connection" the intimacy she craves.

The wanting to die thing is most likey due to exhaustion and pessimism when it comes to not finding this connection and feeling like she has no place she fits in in the world. Also, that no one loves her as deeply as she wants/needs to be loved -- which is shown through the connection she's speaking of.

I agree with the others -- to improve things you might have to share your deepest thoughts and desires not what you did that day or jokes.
 

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(I"m an INTJ dating an INFP)
Generally at night she is "reckless". She used to go on drives or walks at night regularly. Right now we're texting (We're LDR at College). She says,

"Heres the thing. I need more emotional responses from you, and since i dont get them i subconsciously stir things up and cause stress to create emotional reactions that than ead to reconciliation which gives feeling of being connected. I cant keep doing it. Its tiring. I didnt realize that was my pattern untill laying here thinking about it."

"I start the day mostly always happy. We talk. And its great. By night time i am tired and want more connection which i often dont seem to feel like i get so I go to bed grumpy or dissatisfied."


I'm a smart guy. But I don't get this "emotional connection stuff." She can't explain it. We txt throughout the day. I talk to her and she talks back and vicaversa. Where's the emotional connection come in? How can I facilitate that?

Is there anything she can do about her regrets and self-dislike that she feels?

What about her feeling good in the morning and in the day, but crappy and emotionally needy/lost/dissatisfied at night?

It's frustrating. I want to make her happy. But I know a lot of this I can't fix. And the rest I don't know what to do. :S

Thanks for the feedback,
Cheers.

Hey :)

You must love her to be asking for advice about this instead of giving up. Props to you :)

I've done the same thing as your girlfriend -creating drama to get the emotional response I needed from my boyfriend. Yes, it's quite an unhealthy approach. It means that for her to feel your love, she has to piss you off or hurt you to know you care. Of course, I wouldn't blame her for it, because it's subconsciously based. I am dating an ISTP, and for the longest time, I had issues with feeling loved by him and was always depressed because I couldn't connect with him. Admittedly, he's probably not the best person out there for me because our needs are so different, but we've started to figure out how to make things work.

First of all, learning about his style of communication has helped me out a great deal. I can interpret what he says into something that makes sense to me, and I can shape my words so that he understands what I say better. Thus, we can connect better. I bet you if she learned more about your way of communicating, and you about hers, you'd be able to connect and understand each other better as well.

As for you showing emotions to her, I would ensure that you tell her "I love you" a lot. (assuming that you do). My ISTP guy for the longest time had the viewpoint of "I said it once, so why do I have to say it again?" But that just doesn't work for an INFP. Generally speaking, quality over quantity for us, but that doesn't mean every once in a while, give a flower and expect her to be happy for a week. I would try to open yourself to her emotionally by saying or doing at least one thing per day that shows great love to her. Like someone said above, you could say a song reminded you of how you feel about her. If you're busy for a while, you could pop her a random text that says something like "I've been really busy, but I just wanted to take a minute to tell you that I love you (or you're beautiful, or I miss you, or all of the above lol)." We like to know we're worth your time, so saying so would be a great thing for her to hear. You could give her flowers, cheap ones from the grocery store would do. Something my boyfriend does that makes me feel great, and would probably work for her too, is bringing her her favorite candy/food/thing she loves randomly out of the blue. If she likes love letters (I know it might be hard for you to do, or make you uncomfortable) maybe write her one..it doesn't have to cost money what you do. But if you could do a little thing for her every day, I bet you she would be on cloud nine.

I really think it speaks volumes about you that you want some advice and are not just giving up. Thanks a million :happy:
 

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Thank you all for your responses. They were good. Here are some responses I have. I hope my protestations don't come across too strong.

I'm going to semi-quote you guys (I cut down the quotes to segments).

The INTJ guy that I knew had no idea how to express his feelings, whereas the INFP girl could not get over the reality that her INTJ was so emotionally cold. They clicked more on the Intuitive level, where they would talk about abstract and idealistic things. But when it came to discussing feelings/emotions, things just didn't work out. The INTJ simply wanted companionship, whereas the INFP wanted deep emotional bonding. Etc.
Good post. She's said I seem cold sometimes too. I don't get it. The thing is I don't feel like I have “deep inner feelings” to express. I just am. I am curious and I am genuine and I do take notice of her. But that doesn't mean I have something emotional to say.

I think with emotional connection she means she would like to discuss her emotions with you and would like to get an emotional response from you in return. Basically the emotional connection stems from you caring and interacting with her in an emotional way rather than in an analytical logical way. I know you may not feel emotional, but you can still show her warmth and affection, especially since she seems to feel depressed, if you show her some warmth she could feel more comfortable opening up to you about it.
Discuss whatemotions? I get that I need to interact in an “emotional way” but that doesn't mean anything to me. I do try and show her warmth and affection. But not enough?

Are you happy in your relationship, therealdrag?

-It's good she's being honest about how she feels,
-You may be more comfortable looking at solutions but sometimes she'll not what to hear solutions, and would rather you empathize with what she's going through (if you can).

-I would suggest being gentle with her, but recognize that she needs to come to the table too.
-She may not willing to be direct about it, so if you ask her, give her time to respond (I don't really relate to not being direct about these things, but I'm assuming your lady isn't too confident doing so). You may be able to get it out of her by asking her adjacent questions.. "how can I help you right now"?
.
Yeah, I'm happy in the relationship.
I do try and look for a solution or how to better things, but I also do a good job being gentle with her and not expecting her to be rational about things during the emotions.
And yes I have asked her. Almost every time. It's not that she wont be direct about it. Either she doesn't know or she can't explain it in a way I can understand. And sometimes I just say, “Could you please think about this and get back to me with your thoughts.” And maybe the next day she'll tell me something.

She seems to need to talk a lot....ENFP? My ex bf was ESFP & wanted to talk on the phone everyday. It annoyed me. I need SPACE.

INFPs often connect to people via fantasy, as our imaginative world of the ideal can feel more real & satisfying, that is, at least when reality is not providing what we need. This puts you in danger of becoming a fantasy to her, representing an ideal that you can never live up to

If she really is INFP, then think quality and not quantity. I know I feel close to people when they open up to me about how they feel - this does not have to mean emotions, but what is important to them. What is important to you? What are your goals & dreams? If you want to delve into emotions, then what makes you feel vulnerable? Of course, also express how you feel about her. INFPs are conceptual and will find such talk to bond far more than a mere exchange of info. Talking about my day or relating facts about my life can feel mundane to me.

What are your current conversations like?

The more human you seem, the more the reality of you surpasses the ideal fantasy, because it's you being connected to the ideal, not a fantasy. Otherwise, you're just a face to project an image onto.

Everything does not have to be heavy of course. Playful banter is nice...
Your humor can be a bit dark;
She is certainly an INFP (We've both read Keirsey's book Please Understand Me II). And she knows it. She tries to not have too high of expectations for me. She tries to not feed fantasy.

I don't know how to open up about how I feel. That's the point. As for what's important/goals/dreams, we've talked about those things before. I don't see what more could or should be said about it. No point in saying everyday that I want to be a professor, or I want to go to china, or whatever. I do express how I feel about her, at least as much as she does to me.

You're right about the facts though. She considers lots of my texts facts. But I don't know how to go from facts to emotions. Again, that's the point.
We can have good, meaty conversations about various topics, as you said you like.

I'm prone to playful banter, sometimes she doesn't understand it though—it's easier in person. As for dark humor: for sure.

The emotional "connection" is extremely hard to explain, it's either there or not. Let me give you an example, a little facetious so it's easier to get the gist..
INTJ--> Hi lovely, I've just had a bagel. Burp. *i am showing you are part of my life by sharing*
INPF--> Great! *hm yeah lovely, I love bagels too, but I can't see love anywhere in that statement*
So a whole day of communication like that, even if it's 50 text messages has no emotional value for the INPF. Result, at night they start feeling like something is missing and what's the point of investing a lot emotionally if they are getting nothing back blah blah. Plus we don't do quantity, we do quality. We don't smother people with 50 emails a day and we don't like to be smothered either.
But look at this little exchange:
INTJ-->Hi lovely, I've just listened to xxx song on the radio and it reminded me of you the other day when..blah blah
INFP--> lol thats funny! *aww he is thinking about me I think I am going to take five minutes to absent mindedly think about this and feel warm and funny inside, please do not disturb, infp engaged in inner dialogue until further notice*

So, I know this way of talking is completely alien to INTJs, in fact the only person I've ever heard doing things like sending a pic of a sunset with a text message saying I took this pic thinking of how nice it would be to hold your hand under that beautiful sky, was an ENFJ...but maybe it's worth having in mind that INFPs appreciate if you personalize what you say to them and you show your affection in a very clear way. The typical INTJ: "but I am here, that must mean I like you, don’t you think"? REALLY doesn't cut the mustard with an INFP.

And perhaps the last thing you should be aware of, is that affection for us has a sell by date. Let me explain this, when you say "I love you" to an INFP, it does eventually expire and if you don't want them to get restless you have to go and say it "again". And I am sorry to say, but again and again. Did I say you have to keep on saying it? We interpret silence as negative, as he doesn’t think of me that way anymore otherwise he would say it more often. I think you INTJs totally hate repeating yourselves, so if you don't say anything it means nothing has changed.

Good luck! I hope this helps, I am rambling now lol :tongue:
Excellent post Flora. Great examples too :). I think you're wrong that that way of thinking is completely alien to INTJs. I do do stuff like that. But I can't do it all the time. We text a lot. Hundreds of texts a day is not uncommon. I do tell her I miss her. I do send her *hugs*. I do tell her I wish she could have walked home from class with me, or what ever. Once on the way home from grocery shopping I ignored my roommate the whole time and type out on my itouch an poetic description of a sunset. But I can't do it all the time. Everything can't be emotional or about me and her. And as for the personalization thing. I try to personalize affection too. But eventually you run out of things to say. There's only so much I can like about her.

As for saying I love you a lot. She wont have it. She doesn't want it said that much. And if I say it and she isn't feeling it, if there's no fuzzies in her belly at that time, she wont say it back. Same with “I miss you” etc. It's like; that's not very encouraging—that I might say it and not have it reciprocated. And further often if I say one of those she'll ask, “why?” So then I have to figure out a way to qualify it which is flippin' hard! So sometimes I wont say it unless I have a qualification ready before hand. And again, I can't give the same reason every time (that would go against my INTJ redundancy filter :p and it seems like that would be lame to her).

Touch her more often, if you can. Physically, I mean. It means a lot!
When we're together I do—a lot! But we're LDR. Sorry, I didn't make that clear.

She wants to know what you're feeling and thinking -- your deepest thoughts. If you share those with her and she shares hers with you, that is the "connection" the intimacy she craves.
I agree with the others -- to improve things you might have to share your deepest thoughts and desires not what you did that day or jokes.
Thanks for the reply. As said above,I don't understand what that means. Like right now. I'm not feeling ANYTHING. I'm going to finish this and then do homework. What emotions are there to share? I'm kinda tired, I might take a nap—Tired is a feeling right? But “I'm gonna take a nap” is just a description of my actions, not emotional, so that doesn't work to well. See I don't get it. I need better examples.

As for you showing emotions to her, I would ensure that you tell her "I love you" a lot. (assuming that you do). My ISTP guy for the longest time had the viewpoint of "I said it once, so why do I have to say it again?" But that just doesn't work for an INFP. Generally speaking, quality over quantity for us, but that doesn't mean every once in a while, give a flower and expect her to be happy for a week. I would try to open yourself to her emotionally by saying or doing at least one thing per day that shows great love to*her. Like someone said above, you could say a song reminded you of how you feel about her. If you're busy for a while, you could pop her a random text that says something like "I've been really busy, but I just wanted to take a minute to tell you that I love you (or you're beautiful, or I miss you, or all of the above lol)." We like to know we're worth your time, so saying so would be a great thing for her to hear. You could give her flowers, cheap ones from the grocery store would do. Something my boyfriend does that makes me feel great, and would probably work for her too, is bringing her her favorite candy/food/thing she loves randomly out of the blue. If she likes love letters (I know it might be hard for you to do, or make you uncomfortable) maybe write her one..it doesn't have to cost money what you do. But if you could do a little thing for her every day, I bet you she would be on cloud nine.
As said above she doesn't really want that. I'd say it more if it was useful... If I say it once and she reciprocates, if I say it again later she'll not, because we already said it. I try and share affection with her at least daily. It's not difficult because I do feel it and I do share it. And we do write letters back and forth, it's pretty awesome. They're not love letters per se but they do contain affection.
 

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Feeling crappy at night...
I will try and answer to the feeling crappy at night. I get this sometimes. When it is daytime, there is always the hope that something great will happen, something will be accomplished, or some wonderful experience will appear, but when it gets to be nighttime, and the waking hours are coming to a close, the realization that the day was just like any other, and was unfulfilling, brings down a hard reality and it is tempting to stay up and try in desperation to get something else out of the day. This may explain why she becomes more reckless at night. During the day she may hold out some hope of something meaningful happening, but at nighttime if she feels unfulfilled and hasn't had the emotional experience she's looking for, she may use unhealthy ways to find it.

Emotional Connection...
Here are a couple of ideas: Make interactions personal. When you talk about things, even deep things, don't let everything become general and impersonal. If you are discussing music, for instance, let her know how you appreciate her tastes and observations, and share the things about music (or the particular genre/artist) that reaches you the most. In this way, she won't feel like the conversation is just both of you with shovels in an external field of conversation, digging up thoughts and information, and plucking insights off of trees to show to each other. Some of that is good, but also think of the conversation as adjoining the fields of your hearts, and digging into the treasures that are there, tasting the fruit, and sharing with each other your experiences. She wants to know what you really think about her, and her feelings are a part of that, and are a part of what she wants to offer you.

The Spiritual Considerations...
That's one side of things, the other side is it sounds like she needs to mature. If she's looking for a purpose to live in your relationship, and you sense that, the relationship won't work. She might need therapy or something else that can give her some independent confidence. So, determine for yourself if this is a relationship that can work.

Consider this: If she believes in God and in having a relationship with God, and yet she feels like she usually wants to die, no matter how close she is to God, then what makes her believe that a romantic relationship will solve the feelings if she doesn't believe her relationship with God can? If her spiritual preoccupations about her faults, and guilt, and everything else, are a strong, persitent force in her relationship with God, then she will continue to project that in her other relationships, especially male relationships. When a person believes in God, their belief about how God sees them and feels toward them will always be projected in their relationships in some fashion and in varying degrees. So it sounds like she needs spiritual healing. If she believes that God loves her, accepts her, and forgives her, and wants to nurture her...that belief will refresh her entire life perspective.
 

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I find it interesting that she doesn't want to be told you love her very often. I can see that if she doesn't want to wear out the expression. Hearing I love you from my boyfriend a lot sometimes doesn't produce the warm fuzzies after a while, unless he says it in a new way. Maybe she feels similarly about the ways you show her love. You could try mixing up your routine conversations with her possibly. Instead of telling her you're feeling tired, for instance, maybe you could say something along the lines of "I'm tired..I wish I could sleep next to you tonight." I know since you don't think about emotions, it's hard to say things that shows them, but I bet you can come up with something creative that'll work. It would really help if she came to understand more about your type..I was completely unhappy with my boyfriend because of this same issue until I learned about his. If she would, then she would be putting in effort, not just you, and it could help even more.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I find it interesting that she doesn't want to be told you love her very often. I can see that if she doesn't want to wear out the expression.
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It would really help if she came to understand more about your type.... If she would, then she would be putting in effort, not just you, and it could help even more.
Yeah, it's not wanting to wear it out.

She knows about me. As I said, we've both read The Book (Keirsey's Please Understand Me II). She's quite into personality types. And she is trying to be emotionally balanced.
 

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I don't know how to open up about how I feel. That's the point. As for what's important/goals/dreams, we've talked about those things before. I don't see what more could or should be said about it. No point in saying everyday that I want to be a professor, or I want to go to china, or whatever. I do express how I feel about her, at least as much as she does to me
Those are concrete, specific things....think conceptually. Feelings are not just emotions, and they certainly are not physical sensations. In MBTI terms, Feelings are rational judgments of value. To discuss feelings is to talk about what is significant to you, what has value, and the meaning behind things. INTJs use tertiary introverted feeling (Fi) - that means, somewhere in your head, you do process things with a view to value. You just don't do it as consciously as you use logic based on factual evidence (Te). I see tertiary Fi leak out of INTJs ALL the time, often when ranting about how illogical other people are :laughing: .

You're right about the facts though. She considers lots of my texts facts. But I don't know how to go from facts to emotions. Again, that's the point.
We can have good, meaty conversations about various topics, as you said you like.
Try to focus on what things signify in terms of value. Even when you talk about "factual" stuff, can you relate it to something else? You don't have to relate it to HER every time, but something that MEANS something beyond the literal. INFPs want to know the inner workings of your mind. You're an INTJ - don't you have all kinds of weird Ni visions going on in your head? :tongue:. Take a cue from her also....try to note when she expresses value based thinking (ie. feeling) as opposed to just sheer emotion.

Excellent post Flora. Great examples too :). I think you're wrong that that way of thinking is completely alien to INTJs. I do do stuff like that. But I can't do it all the time. We text a lot. Hundreds of texts a day is not uncommon. I do tell her I miss her. I do send her *hugs*. I do tell her I wish she could have walked home from class with me, or what ever. Once on the way home from grocery shopping I ignored my roommate the whole time and type out on my itouch an poetic description of a sunset. But I can't do it all the time. Everything can't be emotional or about me and her. And as for the personalization thing. I try to personalize affection too. But eventually you run out of things to say. There's only so much I can like about her.
Of course, everything cannot be about emotions or feelings, but you seem to think those other areas are just fine right now. This is the area that needs a boost, right?

Thanks for the reply. As said above,I don't understand what that means. Like right now. I'm not feeling ANYTHING. I'm going to finish this and then do homework. What emotions are there to share? I'm kinda tired, I might take a nap—Tired is a feeling right? But “I'm gonna take a nap” is just a description of my actions, not emotional, so that doesn't work to well. See I don't get it. I need better examples.
Don't think current context in regards to feelings.....think about LIFE in general.
 

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Weird, my ex gf used to do the same thing to get me stirred up. I think she wanted angry sex? hahaha anyways sounds like you got a very idealistic gf who you will probably never satisfy(in comparison to her expectations), better just get yours.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Feelings are not just emotions, and they certainly are not physical sensations. In MBTI terms, Feelings are rational judgments of value. To discuss feelings is to talk about what is significant to you, what has value, and the meaning behind things. INTJs use tertiary introverted feeling (Fi) - that means, somewhere in your head, you do process things with a view to value. You just don't do it as consciously as you use logic based on factual evidence (Te). I see tertiary Fi leak out of INTJs ALL the time, often when ranting about how illogical other people are :laughing: .
Excellent. That seems like a good explanation of communicating feelings. I shared it with the gf and she's going to think on it. That's hard; I lean towards being and want to be objective, not subjective! Garrr. Yeah of course I process things with value involved, but the moment I recognize it, I question it... :/ But no: that's a good explanation, I think, thanks.

Where do the "Fi" and "Te" stuff come from. I've seen them before (typelogic (dot com) website?). Is there a legit book that discusses those?


This is the area that needs a boost, right?
Word.


Thanks for the reply OrangeAppled.
 

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Where do the "Fi" and "Te" stuff come from. I've seen them before (typelogic (dot com) website?). Is there a legit book that discusses those?

Thanks for the reply OrangeAppled.
Those are just shorthand for cognitive processes (or functions). Carl Jung's Psychological Types is the basis for this whole theory, and it explains the eight different processes, as well as "pure" types, or how each thought process works when dominant in an individual.

Gifts Differing By Isabel Myers is the original book that discusses the MBTI theory, which takes Jung's "pure" types & pairs them with an auxiliary or secondary cognitive function, creating 16 personality types. How the 4 letter code was created is explained in it also.

A lot of people also like Lenore Thomson's book Personality Type: An Owner's Manual. She expands the theory concerning function order & usage. I find her thoughts pretty interesting, but I'd recommend the above two first.

And you're welcome ;)
 

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She knows about me. As I said, we've both read The Book (Keirsey's Please Understand Me II). She's quite into personality types. And she is trying to be emotionally balanced.
I don't just mean knowing about you. .It might help her out to use that knowledge to put things in terms you understand. It would get her further in communicating with you and maybe even spur the "deeper" conversations she craves. And you'd understand what she is talking about better.

It is a good sign that she wants to become emotionally balanced, though. If she accomplishes this, it will help your relationship out a great deal. After all, she is the one that has a problem with the relationship. You're happy in it. She just needs some self adjustment and needs to become whole (assuming she needs this because what she said about wanting to die and such). I do think that if it is going to work for you two, she has a whole lot of work to do. I went through this myself, so it can be done, but she just has to put a lot of effort in it.

Best of luck to you.
 
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