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I've seen all over the place where INTJs don't get along with their ISFJ mothers. I don't get it - my mom is an ISFJ, and I love her to death. I think she's the bee's knees, and is one of the few people in my life I'd actually admit to needing.

So what's with the ISFJ mom hate?
 
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I have an ISFJ mother as well, and generally adore her and is one of the few people I love to death. However, there are also time when I heavily criticize her for her..."weaknesses". She's an extremely permissive parent, is afraid to speak her mind, sees any rude or mean behavior against her as a referendum on her and sees exploitation as her fault because of her flaws, cannot separate her work and family life, is very stressed and if she has an errand it will be at the forefront of her mind mercilessly. However, she's devoted, caring, gets my sense of humor, and understands me (more than most at least). So, I dislike her character at times, but towards me she's a great loving parent.
 

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I don't ususally have any general relationship issues with my ISFJ mother.
Problems only arise for us because we lack the skills to make ourselves fully understood, we do try however but the result is usually quite frustrating.
The bridge between thinking and feeling is subconsious fantasy, and is not easy to consciously access for most people.
 

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My mom is probably an ISFJ. I had a lot of difficulty with respect for her growing up, because she isn't really at the same intellectual level. (I mean, for goodness sake, she moves her lips when she reads the newspaper.) And she's never understood me, even if she was supportive of my educational goals. I don't know... I'm a slob and my mother is a neat-freak. When I was gone for the weekend, sometimes she'd clean my room out and throw out my papers. And she's very much about guilt, and was always very critical of me. I was a straight A student, and yet felt like I never did anything right.
 

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My mom is an ISFJ and while I can understand that it might be wonderful if you're the apple in her eye, I agree with freddo - it's been hell, because I was the other person. She has always loved my brother more than me for no particular reason. I've always complained about that to her, ever since early childhood, but she would never listen, only saying "you're jealous and you're wrong." The result is that I grew up trying to gain her love, being patient, getting only A grades in school etc. while my brother turned out as a stubborn moron who thinks he deserves everything to be done for him. And she still loves him more. He learned he can do anything and she'll come back to him apologetically anyway. I learned that I have to fight for someone's love and if I try hard enough maybe someone will finally love me, but the chances are really low. And even if I get to be important, it would only be for a short moment, before that person finds someone better to love.

So when there came a boy that I fell in love with I started doing my best to win his heart, to the point of bending my own rules and changing my way of thinking. That's because my mother taught me that I can't be loved for just who I am. She even said this: "you're unlovable." This stemed from the fact that while I'm an excellent INTJ, intelligent, smart and somewhat good looking, I'm a very poor ISFJ - I hate household chores and I really can't be like her, always thinking what else I could do around the house since I have some free time on my hands. And she thinks I should be the same as her and she spent all my childhood and high school years trying to change me. What I learned is that if I don't change, no one would want me. No one would love me the way I am. So, though it's not something I am proud of, I tried to change as much as I could to please the taste of the boy I loved.

He turned out to be an ISFJ as well and did to me the same thing my mother did: even though we were friends for a couple of years, when he found himself a real girlfriend (while the relationship was still young, they've know each other for 2 or 3 months and they still weren't a couple anyway), he never had time to meet with me, never called and generally strongly neglected me, even though he knew I loved him and I would do anything for him. I see it that he ignored his (supposedly) friend for a stranger girl. He didn't even tell me about her, and while I was wondering why he suddenly had no time to even text me (for 4 months!), he was out ignoring my existence and having the time of his life with someone he barely met. My mom was the same: instead of taking better care of a child that tried to satisfy her demands, however irrational they might have been, she chose the kid who is insolent towards her and doesn't even CARE that she loves him so much.

ISFJs are probably ok if you're the One, the person they love and adore. If you're not, they hang out with you and are nice to you if they have nothing better to do at the moment. At least that's what I learned form experience. Both my ISFJs have found someone better to love, so I got neglected, unless they had some spare time and had a whim to spend it with me.

My mom displays the tendency to be very whimsical when her mood changes. If she's ok, then she talks to me and we're fine. But I have to watch my mouth, because if I offend her in any way, she sulks, gets angry and offended and doesn't speak to me for a couple of days, and suddenly I'm the worst person in the world. I'm really tired of this now, it gets worse as the time passes, and it's really pissing me off when she's nice and all and the next second she gets offended out of the blue and turns on her "everything is bad nag nag nag" mode. When in this state, she starts remembering all the duties to do, all the things that can go wrong or did go wrong, all the neglected work and asks sarcastic questions like "Did you do it already? No? so what are you waiting for? Do you think I'm going to do this instead of you?" or, the other version, "Did you do it already? No? Well I don't care, when you face the consequences, you face them alone because it's your fault." On the other hand, my brother can throw insults at her straight in her face and when her anger subsides she just comes to him as if nothing happened.

This really affected my personality and the way I perceive myself and my relations with other people. I know I have friends and they do care for me, but nevertheless I feel like if I disappeared, no one would cry or feel sorry because they all have someone more important in their lives, like boyfriends or parents or such. No one really has to bother about me. I still get surprised if a stranger or merely an acquaintance is nice to me or when my friends show me some affection. And I know it's not normal, I shouldn't be surprised because that's just what friends do. I guess it's simply hard for me to believe that someone could be nice to me "just because." When it came to my mother, I always had to make some sacrifices so that she would be nice to me. Whether it was by secretly trying to be a perfect daughter around her or by outward deals ("I'll give you the money for your school trip only if you promise me to help me around the house and clean your room regularly" - by the way, this is her perception of being feminine: doing household chores - she said it herself when I asked), she always wanted something in return, usually a proof of my changing into her. She just couldn't understand me and let me be the way I am.

And really, it's just a short brief of our relationship. So here You have Your answer.
 

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Mokona, your post almost made me cry with thinking about how my childhood was. Heck, my mother still makes me feel like I'm not good enough now - she guilts me about grandkids. My brother, of course, is also not giving her grandkids, but that's just how he is. I'm the girl, it's my job. Or something.
 
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Wow, Mokona...that's awful. :sad: If it were possible, I'd trade you mommies for a day so you could see how wonderful a "good" ISFJ mom is. Not only do we not have to earn her love, I think more often than not that there's really nothing we could do to push her away. I've seen my brother disappoint her time and time again, and yet she always welcomes him with open arms. I hope you and your mom can someday come to some sort of understanding.

Mokona, your post almost made me cry with thinking about how my childhood was. Heck, my mother still makes me feel like I'm not good enough now - she guilts me about grandkids. My brother, of course, is also not giving her grandkids, but that's just how he is. I'm the girl, it's my job. Or something.
Thank goodness my parents have never done this or there would have been war...of course, my brother provided them with a granddaughter last year, so I think they more than have their hands full for now. :happy:
 

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My mom is opposite of the ISFJ stereotype. She's an ISFJ dragon lady, which is partly why I'm so often called a dragon lady or "Queen of Night". I inherited that from her. "ISFJ mom hate" comes from constantly making me feel like a failure and a deviant because I do not conform. I'm disappointed that she did not have the mental flexibility or maturity to see things from my point of view, especially when I was a naive child. SHE was the responsible and experienced one. If ANYONE should be expected to be able to see things from other points of view, it was HER. I do not appreciate what she did to my self confidence, and I'm currently trying to pick up the pieces, being in one of the most transformational phases of my life: Age 17. She gets my contempt. Blaming is useless, but even so, she deserves it.

My mother is extremely loving. She lavishes me with love. But it's "tough love". She used to beat me, and I used to fear her constant phone calls, her screaming, her physical abuse... She acts like I have no privacy. Things I told her in confidence would soon be spread to uncles, cousins, friends... etc. I confronted her publicly (during a family gathering) when she started telling my uncle about how I felt about something, that I felt was STRICTLY private. I'm not ashamed of doing that, but she was. She had it coming. She fucking did. I flat out asked her, in public, "what gives you the right to broadcast this?" And then I refused to talk to her. She reacted flippantly and acted as though I had no right to say what I did, and that my moralizing about privacy was another childish tantrum. "Oh really? Why is that so private?" "We won't see eye to eye on this, but it IS private to me, so respect that." The problem is, a part of me loves her. A part of me wants to confide in her. Now I don't know whether to trust her. Fuck. I can't trust her.

I had ADHD, but all this time she KNEW I had it, yet she attributed it to moral failings and never gave me any treatment. I'm not failing school. I'm taking 4 AP/IB and 1 honors courses and making a 3.8 in a highly competitive school, the only non-A grade being AP Physics. How did I achieve this? Hard work, some brains and overcompensation that really wrecks my emotional health. I'm NOT a slob and I never was, and I can't believe she called me one. But I've been on the bottom of my class once. I remember being told that she wished I was never born. And that I was useless. And a hypocrite. And excessively lazy. And when my off-the-wall and original thinking and noncompliance with gender roles became apparent, she branded me a deviant and called herself a failure for bringing up a daughter who is never as affectionate as she'd have wanted it, the opposite of cosmopolitan, holding progressive views, separates love and sex, individualistic... She never fails to diagnose me with mental disorders whenever I don't fit into her "perfect world" schematics.

I believed her for a very long time, until, as it so often happens, I discovered the MBTI and quite a few other things. I tried to explain it to her, thinking it would open her eyes, but she remains dogmatically committed to her own world view. I don't get it, you know.
 

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I have an ISFJ mother as well, and generally adore her and is one of the few people I love to death. However, there are also time when I heavily criticize her for her..."weaknesses". She's an extremely permissive parent, is afraid to speak her mind, sees any rude or mean behavior against her as a referendum on her and sees exploitation as her fault because of her flaws, cannot separate her work and family life, is very stressed and if she has an errand it will be at the forefront of her mind mercilessly. However, she's devoted, caring, gets my sense of humor, and understands me (more than most at least). So, I dislike her character at times, but towards me she's a great loving parent.
This ^.

My mother can be a pain sometimes, but she's great none the less. I love her to bits.
 

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Guilt-mongering, manipulative, thinks she is the centre of the universe, emotionally abusive, when my sister left university she told her she had "no personality" and kicked her out of the house, she cried when I said I didn't want a PhD right away, she has the biggest entitlement complex of anyone I have ever met, she is too busy worshipping herself she doesn't love anyone, I grew up being told I was "inhuman" and "cold" and "nasty" and incapable of dealing with humans (read:her), major gaslighting, no respect for my privacy or property or boundaries, would trash-talk my friends behind their back in a pretense of concern for them or me...and so on and so on....I ran away.
 

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Guilt-mongering, manipulative, thinks she is the centre of the universe, emotionally abusive, when my sister left university she told her she had "no personality" and kicked her out of the house, she cried when I said I didn't want a PhD right away, she has the biggest entitlement complex of anyone I have ever met, she is too busy worshipping herself she doesn't love anyone, I grew up being told I was "inhuman" and "cold" and "nasty" and incapable of dealing with humans (read:her), major gaslighting, no respect for my privacy or property or boundaries, would trash-talk my friends behind their back in a pretense of concern for them or me...and so on and so on....I ran away.
Totally sounds like my grandmother...which makes me think my mother is a fairly healthy ISFJ, and my gran is a TOTALLY unhealthy one...
 

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Wow, reading this thread I feel the same way about my mother, I can talk to her about "normal" stuff but other than that it feels like she only did anything because she "had" to. When every something went wrong she'd end up taking it out on me and has a "woe is me" attitude even though she's quite healthy and financially secure (though they way she spends her money on useless crap).
 

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Interesting how many INTJs here have ISFJs mothers...

Mine (XSFJ) is stubborn, illogical and is nearly impossible to argue with as she won't listen to any other arguments or even have a decent conversation with, has no concept of preserving my privacy (she even went through my bank statements justifying herself with "But they were there on the floor!"), is a chatterbox and very occasionally emotionally abusive (ie called me "weak" for going against her wishes). There'd be many more other things but I think you get the idea.
 

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Mokona, a post like that makes me wanting to hit that "thanks" button until it's worn to a nub. Don't let anyone ever tell you to be anyone but yourself. This goes for anyone, but doubly for you, as you seem wonderful the way you are. If morons can't see that - their loss!!
 

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I'm currently at war with my (XSFJ) mother. Its taken me years to realize I just have to ignore her emotionally draining behavior and do the best I can for myself.
 

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You guys ... this thread is a real wake up call for those of us ISFJ mothers who have INT children. I have to thank you all for the insights you've given into parenting styles and what you guys want and need. I have a son who is probably either an INTP or INTJ (and I'm leaning towards the J) and I have never really known what to do for him because he is so very different to me. I hope that as he grows up I can keep these things in mind and just let him be himself, and especially let him know that he is loved unconditionally. He is one of the most beautiful people I know, and I need to make sure he knows that (and that his siblings know that they are just as wonderful). You guys seem like an awesome bunch and I'm sorry for the many of you who have had some really negative experiences with your mothers.
 

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sts06, the fact that you're here, looking for information to make you a better parent says that to me that you're already doing a better job than what many of us are talking about. So thank you for doing that.
 

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sts06, the fact that you're here, looking for information to make you a better parent says that to me that you're already doing a better job than what many of us are talking about. So thank you for doing that.
Thank you :happy:

In the interests in trying to avoid some of these pitfalls with my own son, could you guys maybe give me some ideas on how to approach him? He's 6, so at that age what were the things that made you feel best appreciated and encouraged? What do you wish your own ISFJs had avoided when they interacted with you? My other two children are obviously feelers (as is my husband) so they are reasonably easy for me to 'read' and thus give the sorts of attention they need, but my 6 year old is different. At the moment I try to do things like puzzles with him (his very favourite thing to do other than figure out the computer, do maths problems and play video games), but is there anything else I could be doing?
 
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