[INTJ] - INTJs and their views on TEEN PREGNANCY

Isis

· #2 · Jul 27, 2010

mdawn said:
alright.. I have my views on the matter. And I believe that the views i possess, have a lot to do with my personality type.

So go ahead INTJs... let's hear it. please support your opinions with well-educated responses and facts. thank you

Many pregnant teens are, in fact, married.

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It wasn't me?

...

Well, teens get pregnant. It's what they're biologically programmed to do. I'm sure it will continue to happen.

Coming from a family of women who get pregnant at 16-18, and seeing how my nephews and nieces have grown into responsible, mature adults... I don't really see a problem with it, as long as there are good family values and people ready to step up to the plate. I've seen people who have their kids in the mid 30's, and the kids turn out rotten.

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mdawn

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jul 27, 2010

Isis said:
Many pregnant teens are, in fact, married.

awesome. "many"? what does "many" mean. absolutely nothing.

now, let's discuss the unmarried ones. maybe the 15 year old girls that are getting pregnant and left to care for the child on their own? let's talk about the economic side of this matter. Perhaps, the fact that 9.1 billion dollars of tax payers money is spent on teen pregnancies ANNUALLY. or maybe even how teen pregnancies carry extra health risks to the mother and the baby. how about this... More than 2/3 of all teenagers who have a baby will not graduate from high school. real bright future for that child, right? Additionally, it is estimated that as much as 80% of unwed teen mothers end up welfare. which, in fact, is just more tax money out of our pockets. sad realities.

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Malovane

· #5 · Jul 27, 2010

mdawn said:
awesome. "many"? what does "many" mean. absolutely nothing.

now, let's discuss the unmarried ones. maybe the 15 year old girls that are getting pregnant and left to care for the child on their own? let's talk about the economic side of this matter. Perhaps, the fact that 9.1 billion dollars of tax payers money is spent on teen pregnancies ANNUALLY. or maybe even how teen pregnancies carry extra health risks to the mother and the baby. how about this... More than 2/3 of all teenagers who have a baby will not graduate from high school. real bright future for that child, right? Additionally, it is estimated that as much as 80% of unwed teen mothers end up welfare. which, in fact, is just more tax money out of our pockets. sad realities.

And for that 80% of unwed teen mothers on welfare, what portion do you think planned that all along, or at least had it in mind when they decided not to care about consequences? 90%? 95%? How many of those continue to have baby after baby? 80%? 90%?

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InvisibleJim

· #6 · Jul 27, 2010

It is appropriate if the mothers/fathers are capable (with the support of their families) of successfully supporting a child. If not then it should be discouraged.

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mdawn

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jul 27, 2010

Malovane said:
And for that 80% of unwed teen mothers on welfare, what portion do you think planned that all along, or at least had it in mind when they decided not to care about consequences? 90%? 95%? How many of those continue to have baby after baby? 80%? 90%?

EXACTLY.

here's an idea.

if we need a fishing license to fish and a hunting license to hunt, then we should need a license to have a baby. that's my opinion and i am sticking to it. :wink:

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Malovane

· #8 · Jul 27, 2010

mdawn said:
EXACTLY.

here's an idea.

if we need a fishing license to fish and a hunting license to hunt, then we should need a license to have a baby. that's my opinion and i am sticking to it. :wink:

It's an interesting idea, but do you really want the government defining who can and cannot breed? These are the same people who designed the welfare system so that it would produce the results we are seeing now.

Why not just remove welfare, and let the natural order deal out such license?

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mdawn

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jul 27, 2010

Malovane said:
It's an interesting idea, but do you really want the government defining who can and cannot breed? These are the same people who designed the welfare system so that it would produce the results we are seeing now.

Why not just remove welfare, and let the natural order deal out such license?

to remove welfare would be to remove assistance to a variety of people who need it. not just unwed pregnant teens. i do understand your argument, however. and yes, i do think their should be more "government authority" on who and who can not breed. this world is over-populated. something needs to be done about it. BUT LET'S NOT GO THERE...because if we start a debate on over-population, im sure there will be sounds of bullets being fired, and swords being whipped from their scabbards.

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Syntax

· #10 · Jul 27, 2010

mdawn said:
EXACTLY.

here's an idea.

if we need a fishing license to fish and a hunting license to hunt, then we should need a license to have a baby. that's my opinion and i am sticking to it. :wink:

You want a government that can control who can give birth?

Ignoring the other complications, this could be used in a thousand different ways to exploit the public, and will undoubtedly instate a eugenics program. It may be a good idea for an evil politician, but I didn't think I'd ever hear that out of a common citizen.

Using your arguments as a cover-up, Hitler could have taken a more political route to his eugenics program. That's what this is analogical to.

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InvisibleJim

· #11 · Jul 27, 2010

Syntax said:
You want a government that can control who can give birth?

Ignoring the other complications, this could be used in a thousand different ways to exploit the public, and will undoubtedly instate a eugenics program. It may be a good idea for an evil politician, but I didn't think I'd ever hear that out of a common citizen.

Using your arguments as a cover-up, Hitler could have taken a more political route to his eugenics program. That's what this is analogical to.

I actually agree with MDawn due to the limited resources available on the planet and the fact we are far past the replacement level and are eating into natural capital.

However, your post, good sir, although morally just is entirely off topic. Can we focus on the teenage pregnancy issue?

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Malovane

· #12 · Jul 27, 2010

InvisibleJim said:
I actually agree with MDawn due to the limited resources available on the planet and the fact we are far past the replacement level and are eating into natural capital.

However, your post, good sir, although morally just is entirely off topic. Can we focus on the teenage pregnancy issue?

And here I thought her original post was just a trap to discuss her new eugenics program. :tongue:

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wealldie

· #13 · Jul 27, 2010

Random stream of consciousness: I don't care about teen pregnancy, I care about unwanted pregnancy. I'd like both sexes educated on sex, sexuality, and pregnancy from a very young age so more people are prepared to make proper decisions when it comes time to having sex, no matter their age. Abstinence education is fucking stupid. Free abortions at the pregnant woman's discretion. Religious views on unwanted pregnancy not respected for anyone who doesn't hold those views. People with more compassion who stop blaming women for unwanted pregnancies, and especially claims that "they deserve it." More or less, the patriarchal view on unwanted pregnancy can go ahead and get fucked.

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Isis

· #14 · Jul 27, 2010

mdawn said:
awesome. "many"? what does "many" mean. absolutely nothing.

now, let's discuss the unmarried ones. maybe the 15 year old girls that are getting pregnant and left to care for the child on their own? let's talk about the economic side of this matter. Perhaps, the fact that 9.1 billion dollars of tax payers money is spent on teen pregnancies ANNUALLY. or maybe even how teen pregnancies carry extra health risks to the mother and the baby. how about this... More than 2/3 of all teenagers who have a baby will not graduate from high school. real bright future for that child, right? Additionally, it is estimated that as much as 80% of unwed teen mothers end up welfare. which, in fact, is just more tax money out of our pockets. sad realities.

That was just mean and dismissive. Not to mention ignorant.

About 40% of women in the US get pregnant before they turn 20. This is not a small proportion. So, this is not a small number of people costing everyone else a lot of money--this is a fairly common problem for young women and girls.

Also, the 9.1 billion dollars you quote includes money that is spent for married teen mothers, abortions, and costs associated with the care of the children of these young women. So, you may want to check the amount of money spent on behalf of the unmarried mothers if that's what's bothering you.

You may also want to consider the idea that these isolated facts don't mean very much outside of a context. So, you may want to check out the relative proportion of people who graduate from high school or attend college in the US by gender. Or the length of time women with dependent children stay on welfare. These would also flesh out your perspective, which seems a bit narrow.

I don't mind my tax money going to feed those young women and their children because I understand that I was just lucky to have an opportunity to get an education. Just lucky. Everyone else doesn't get what I have and I owe it to them and to myself to understand and remember that.

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lirulin

· #15 · Jul 28, 2010

wealldie said:
Random stream of consciousness: I don't care about teen pregnancy, I care about unwanted pregnancy. I'd like both sexes educated on sex, sexuality, and pregnancy from a very young age so more people are prepared to make proper decisions when it comes time to having sex, no matter their age. Abstinence education is fucking stupid. Free abortions at the pregnant woman's discretion. Religious views on unwanted pregnancy not respected for anyone who doesn't hold those views. People with more compassion who stop blaming women for unwanted pregnancies, and especially claims that "they deserve it." More or less, the patriarchal view on unwanted pregnancy can go ahead and get fucked.

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Isis

· #16 · Jul 28, 2010

lirulin said:

good point

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Syntax

· #17 · Jul 28, 2010

InvisibleJim said:
I actually agree with MDawn due to the limited resources available on the planet and the fact we are far past the replacement level and are eating into natural capital.

However, your post, good sir, although morally just is entirely off topic. Can we focus on the teenage pregnancy issue?

I agree that we should stay on topic, but since you quoted my post and gave input on it, why wasn't that input on topic with my post?

I didn't say that I disagreed with the object of overpopulation (which is obviously something worth worry), I didn't even say that I disagreed with her idea. Just because the Earth is becoming overpopulated doesn't mean that a "birth license" system is necessary. There's multiple options.

On teen pregnancy, I have a bit of a solid view. If you can't deal with it, then don't risk it. There's always a risk of pregnancy while having sex, even with having various protection.

Of course, there's several "evil" ways to get rid of a child that your partner is carrying, such as having her "accidentally" bump her stomach into something. Of course, you can apply your "moralistic" attitude to that and you may describe it as "horrid." Your choice.

I actually just wrote a satire informative containing the above context. I didn't want people to think that I don't have a heart, however, so I refrained from posting it.

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Inev1t4bl3

· #18 · Jul 28, 2010

I think we should take all 14 year olds and give them mandatory sex ed-- real sex ed. When it is over, confidentially offer to give each 14 year old $200 and a video game console system of choice-- if they agree to get sterilized.

The ones who don't have the presence of mind to think through the longterm consequences of their actions are the ones most likely to participate in unintended breeding. The offer of money and a new video game appeals to this short term thinking that is rampant in human society.

Those who either don't want to breed, or who are incapable of making a long term decision-- can be removed from the future gene pool of their own free will. This helps solve the excessive population problem, its helps solve unwanted teenage pregnancy, and it should improve the quality of the genes that are passed on to future generations. Plus it is entirely voluntary.

Perhaps I could start a charity. Maybe something like: The Bill and Melinda Sterilize a Child Foundation

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PseudoSenator

· #19 · Jul 28, 2010

Teen pregnancy is a sad problem which unfortunately runs rampant in this country. The fact that MTV can constantly run new episodes of that show Teen Moms is quite sickening. Unless the baby is given away to a couple that can't have kids or is given up for adoption, I would predict poor outlooks for the futures of the teen parents and their child.

This is all based on the precondition that the young parents don't have an adequate structure in place for raising the child, but even so teen pregnancy should be discouraged through sex education and, yes, abortion rights. I think refusing to pay taxes in order to support parties involved in these circumstances is too extreme because it wouldn't directly reduce the number of teen pregnancies---most teens are completely clueless about taxes, government, and finances anyway. Personally, I wouldn't mind paying taxes to help fund abortions. Mdawn, I'm curious if you would be as well since it would eliminate the long-term economic drain that worries you?

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mdawn

Discussion Starter · #20 · Jul 28, 2010

PseudoSenator said:
Teen pregnancy is a sad problem which unfortunately runs rampant in this country. The fact that MTV can constantly run new episodes of that show Teen Moms is quite sickening. Unless the baby is given away to a couple that can't have kids or is given up for adoption, I would predict poor outlooks for the futures of the teen parents and their child.

This is all based on the precondition that the young parents don't have an adequate structure in place for raising the child, but even so teen pregnancy should be discouraged through sex education and, yes, abortion rights. I think refusing to pay taxes in order to support parties involved in these circumstances is too extreme because it wouldn't directly reduce the number of teen pregnancies---most teens are completely clueless about taxes, government, and finances anyway. Personally, I wouldn't mind paying taxes to help fund abortions. Mdawn, I'm curious if you would be as well since it would eliminate the long-term economic drain that worries you?

i love intelligent people. those of whom use common sense and realistic views on this ordeal. and yes, i would not mind paying taxes to help fund abortions. HOWEVER, i only support abortions if they are being taken place prior to 10 weeks of gestation.

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