[Clutch072791]

Hey guys. So this is how it is for me as an ENFP male. I saw this on another webstie and ill copy and paste.

"Between my normal casual persona [which I only reveal to close friends and family] I have two personas which I project:

My "self-protective" alpha male persona... I spontaneously adapt a deep voice, aggressive body language, a slow, concentrated way of doing things... Just your classic tough guy... And it works. It sort of "comes on" when I'm tired, feel like I'm being condescended, apprehensive, angry, etc... And when it does, people back the fuck down... The only problem is, when people take it at face value and I don't get a chance to show them my friendlier/more cooperative side afterwards, I become depressed because I feel like I presented an inauthentic self to them... And that they will forever see me as "just" that instead...
My secondary persona... Which I also manifest without any control is a childish, bumbling, subservient, beta male persona... Basically your classic "Gilligan/Sponge Bob" idiot. This sort of comes on in situations when I feel over-extended and that people's expectations of me are either too narrow or too high.

This is basically me in a nutshell. My "Alpha-male persona" It comes on when im around other men, my frat brothers, or even people I dont know. I can seem hard and introverted. I lower my voice, appear more masculine, put away any qualities that can be seen as feminine, and go with the flow. I do martial arts (since I was 5) and weightlift a ton (Ive been a weightlifter since in high school because I was teased brutally throughout gradeschool and middle school. Beat up, called gay and prissy, had food and stuff thrown at me in class. So one day I had enough of going home and started beating the crap out of them all). However, I act like this as a...protection. Like most ENFP's, im extremely sensitive and want people to like me, and not attack my personality or my way of life. This brings a darkness out of me that I do, and dont, like at all. For example, Ill be in a line for lunch standing with my headphones in, blaring T.I, Lil'Wayne, or Drake, And people tend to leave me alone and if they dont know me, think im some type of "bad boy" with his hood up, headphones on, and muscles bulging underneath his sweatjacket. However, people who know me personally say im "In the zone." haha. And approach me. When I recognize them, im back into Happy ENFP mode and go from having "Fuck off" stamped on my forehead to "Hey man, long time no see. How are you? How is your day today?". Im like this 50% of the time, the other 50, Im walking with pride down the street examining the world around me with a smile on my face, feeling the breeze, and life in general. Such a beatiful world right? Then I see something, some injustice, like a story abut problems between the israeli's and Palestinian on CNN, or see some bumpersticker that says "A village in Kenya is missing its idiot" or " Going to Iraq? Lets Nuke em." that feels like a slap in the face and puts me back into the dark abyss. The "People suck, why do they have to be so cruel and not try and understand?" mode.

When im around people I know, and think I can act myself around, im far more bouncy and ENFP like. Its like watching a comedy show. Ill be cracking jokes and singing "I believe in a thing called love. Just listen to the rhythm of my heart!"<< If you know that song. You are awesome. Half my friends are men, and half are women. I love hanging out with both and getting their opinions on life in general, enjoying their company, and enjoying them as a person entirely. When I go to parties or frat events. I stay off on the sidelines taking everything in, processing, talking to people I know, before venturing out and meeting new people too see what they are like. I usually shyly come over and listen for awhile before talking.

When it comes to my friends...whoa...Talk about protective. I was at a party and a dude who was being a prick came out and called an openly gay classmate a "******." (he knew what he was doing was wrong) I came around the corner with arms raised ready to put his head into the coffee table. Which one of my friends had to stop me and tell me to go cool off. Which reminds me of another thing. ENFP males, do they hold grudges in some ways? Ill forgive easily, but I dont forget for months. Especially if its a personal attack on me or someone else.

When it comes to relationships, I have had girlfriends. two. Women do seem to be drawn towards me (which leaves other men asking "How do you do it?" and I have no idea) But I cant imagine an LTR with MOST women. "Too needy, Too vain, Too...is that a knife in her purse O_O?!" Im extremely picky and will know when I find her. That does not say I have crushes haha. When I crush, I crush HAAAARD. Its like a chick flick! LOL. I have the puppy dog eyes and im trying to run into the girl when I can (without seeming like a creeper.) I think about her all day and daydream. Its so obvious. Once I pick up the courage to ask her to get coffee usually Its akward or its dead on. Awkward version= "Hey, wanna go get some coffee? I mean, If you like Coffee...or tea....or soda."" and im thinking "Ive already said too much." lol. I think it sounds awful, but typically (and too my luck) they get a kick out of it. So its win/win.

Anyway, there's my rant (hopefully it wasnt too painful) Anything sound super ENFP like? Or does it all haha? Are their any other ENFP males that have the same traits? or am I loner?

 

[The King Of Dreams]

Wow, I usually don't read long posts like that but you kept it interesting the whole way. So I already think you're awesome just from your first post. Hello, I'm @The King Of Dreams, it's nice to meet you!

Yeah, you sound very ENFP-like. I met a dude once that was kind of goth-looking. But as soon as we talked the Ne started flying! We were both full of animation and expression so we were like two puppies at play. It was the coolest. I have those same faces ("piss-off" and "I-love-the-world-and-everyone-in-it-come-sit-next-to-me-and-be-my-friend") So yeah, you sound kinda like me too. I was severely picked on and harassed in school so I know what it feels like. I find that I can get along with anyone. However, it doesn't mean that they don't tire me out...

Just a question... Was it a struggle at home growing up as a ENFP as well? Or was it in school only?

 

[Wellsy]

That you're using Alpha and Beta to describe yourself worries me.
But since its what you're saying, just incase, the misconception about Alpha is people think that being the stereotypical tough guy is the Alpha, no he's a beta. Beta's are more violent and aggressive and if they have to take the role of Alpha, things just turn to shit. An Alpha is a well adjusted self confident man, basically the guy who is capable of a lot of things but gets respect from people because he's not a arsehole and people value his opinion, he gets his power from this respect from other because they look to him for support.
So scrap that whole Alpha Beta thing because this isn'y evolutionary science hahaha

This relates not only to you but to all men because we're apart of this socialization

I think all guys can relate to what you're going through in terms of the expectations of being a man and how warped our minds can become from receiving what a man is to be from a bullshit stereotype which is reinforced by insecure men which basically is young men and young boys.
As this MBTI is very general and in its own way stereotyping, the stereotype of ENFP's as far as I know is they're the natural people person when they feel good.
With your extraverted Intuition, you [ick up absolutely everything it can make you scatter brained so much information just bouncing idea to idea. This is amazing in that it actually makes ENFP's generally pretty friggin' smart I think but because you're extraverted and also with the introverted feeling function, im pretty sure its introverted, like INFP's and ENFP's share same functions in different order ANYWAY.
ENFP's tend to be just as bound to their moral hierarchy as INFP's not in a forceful way but when shit gets serious you aint backing down like with that guy who was calling the openly gay fella a ****** and you got wriled up. I think of ENFP's as being the natural people person who can own the spotlight but have depth to them so they are smarter than they'll let on.
But I also think ENFP's because they get so energized by being around people they need time to relax, the down time going crazy around people well for such an extreme you need to gather yourself adn thats when you isolate and feel crappy.

Basically you need to do what we all need to, find that balance of being masculine but a good type of masculine. Things like TheGoodMenProject is the sort of thing thats reinforcing that good men are your macho tough guy, the good man isn't about violence he mediates conflict and solves it peacefully, he stands up for the minority or when someone isnt able to when no one else will, he is capable but he doesnt boast in an insecure manner but may admit that he's good at things, he'll express emotion to those who he feels deserve to see those cracks in his armor and he isnt ashame dbecause its a natural and vital release, but he doesnt let his emotions control him where he is unjustly angry or let his down moods of cyncism con him into believing they're the truth. I guess its probably a bit much saying the example of todays model of masculinity but i think this ideal of a man has always been wanted but never advertised and to become such a man is a life long task of becoming a healthy individual in all aspects.
Physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually.
I know i probably shouldnt be preaching as im only 20 and nothing of such a man ive just described but I intend to be a better person than I am atm and im going to work on it.
We should all work on ourselves.

I do understand the whole rah-rah man-boy culture. You don't escape it, because its that stuck within men everywhere, the insecure man who thinks how much he drinks how many women he fucks or how big his muscles are make him a man's man.
Thats not to say those are bad things to do but depending on the motivation, they could be.
So try and be the man you want to be this sounds simple but its the hardest thing you'll face in your life probably, escaping the bullshit of what people wrongly think a man is. But when you feel comfortable with yourself and that what you're doing is right you will come across people who will think that you're the lesser man by their definition but dont let them bother you, their ignorance shall remain theirs.
There will be some people who will recognize how great you are, that you're a shining example to others of a self confident lad.
Insecure women or young women who mistake arrogance for confidence will get burned by unhealthy individuals, I dont think they're relationship material if thats ever what you're after because the best relationships I would assume are two iondividuals who work on themselves because you cant change a person you can only change yourself so make yourself the fucking best you can be for the woman who deserves it.

Just my thoughts, dont know how much merit they have for ya but good luck. Also you can probably see but im not ENFP but INFP, just kind of stumbled over here into this subforum

 

[The King Of Dreams]

With your extraverted Intuition, you pick up absolutely everything it can make you scatter brained so much information just bouncing idea to idea. This is amazing in that it actually makes ENFP's generally pretty friggin' smart I think but because you're extraverted and also with the introverted feeling function, im pretty sure its introverted, like INFP's and ENFP's share same functions in different order ANYWAY.
I think of ENFP's as being the natural people person who can own the spotlight but have depth to them so they are smarter than they'll let on.

But I also think ENFP's because they get so energized by being around people they need time to relax, the down time going crazy around people well for such an extreme you need to gather yourself and that's when you isolate and feel crappy.

I agree with this. Especially the points in BOLD.

 

[LibertyPrime]

Op, if you expect me to read that wall of text...break it up a bit...its overwhelmingly daunting to give a damn about what is written there, when its written like that!

 

[Clutch072791]

Well then try it now. Broke it up a bit.

Thanks

 

[Clutch072791]

It wasnt a big issue at home. But things could be quite rough. Both my parents are "Gaurdians." My ma being an ESTJ and my Dad being an ISFJ. They both stressed the issue of responsibility and me following the rules. Dad had some anger problems, which he has worked out now. But caused some problems in the past. He didnt understand why his kid (who was so great at sports) didnt want to play competitively on a team. I like sports for fun, but not too get into a fuss about. Or why I would want to hang out with friends after school, instead of running track.

 

[Swordsman of Mana]

@Clutch072791
I can relate to much of what you said. I'm not terribly concerned with being an alpha male, but I was also beaten up a lot as a kid and developed a more aggressive side (though, it appears yours is more "thuggish", mine is more authoritative). my goofy Ne side is rather repressed at the moment as well, so I can relate to that too.

PS: have you looked into enneagram? you seem like some sort of 3w2-6w7-8w9 tritype (in some order) and So/Sx

 

[Clutch072791]

@ Swordsman Of Mana

I just took your advice and looked into it. Im actually having problems reading it. But some parts do seem accurate.

Is this correct based off what you were saying?- "3w2(sw2w1): If I achieve a win-win for everyone involved I will be worthy of love."

Uhhh, im not sure if thuggish is the right context. But dunno.

 

[GROUNDED_ONE]

Is it weird ...that I relate to this? It is probably more weird that I am asking that on this side of the pond. I totally do the headphones thing.

 

[JaySH]

@Clutch072791 Sorry for the following book...I just wrote what came to mind when reading your post and think it's related.

You and I have a lot in common. Or, we did when I was 21. It wasn't until...well, a couple of things, that I started to embrace my more fun loving side but, I'll get to that after.

My life. I started angry..or, rather, I started with reasons to be angry at life. My father died when I was 8 months old. I only knew of his voice from a recording on a cassette of him reading to me..which eventually got eaten and destroyed. Nobody in my house knew it but, I'd play this one part of him laughing over and over sometimes. i asked for a boombox when I was 6 just for this tape...just to hear his voice. My stepdad was abusive and, after he'd beat me with a belt...buckle if my hands got in the way...which they often did, and, after he was done, I'd listen to that tape and dream of what my life would be if I had my real father. My stepdad thought I was feminine...even got after me for wanting a "My Buddy". Remember those? Never got one.

At school I was awkward and picked on a lot. One thing my stepdad did teach me was to stand up for myself and, I'd try but I was skinny...scrawny even and it was never just one kid. Whenever it was for someone else, I'd try harder...especially if it was boys picking on girls. I remember once, in 3rd grade, these 2 fifth graders were messing with me. They were twice my size, easily and I I was scared. They finally just pushed me to the limit and, I don't remember exactly how, but i grabbed one of their backpacks and just pulled back with everything I had and he fell on his back. when the friend came at me I jumped into him and knocked him back (not very far, he was big..but I startled him), and then teacher came into the hall. Walking out to the bus they warned me I was going to get it the next morning. When I told my Stepdad, he was proud I stood up for myself and told me I had to the next morning too. So, the next morning I got off the bus, walked to the "u" shaped part of the school and there they were, waiting for me. Thought I was doomed...when, I heard tires screeching and looked to see my Stepdad's camaro screaming towards us. Needless to say, they never messed with me again.

That was a good memory...and happened 2 months before he was killed in a car accident. As much as I sometimes hated him, it was nice to finally have him proud of me...yet, the day he died he was beating my mother and as he left I said "I hate you! I wish you were dead"...the guilt those words carried..the last words I ever spoke to him, it messed me up.

In 4th grade i beat up a kid for making fun of my Stepdad's accident because he had been drinking. I threw the kid over a desk (how, I don't know as he outweighed me by 40 to 50 lbs. That boosted my confidence though. I never took anyone's crap again! I let my anger control me...it made me look tougher and I dealt with much less conflict. Seeing kids picked on angered me...partly because of all my experiences at school ad my being so helpless to my mother being abused by my stepfather so, I'd fight them...a lot.

I got in with a bad crowd and almost died after stealing beer when I was 16. The truck accident that occurred, with me in the bed, threw me 250ft and I landed head first. 80 mph out of a truck and not a broken bone (brain hemorrhaging, contusions, swelling of the brain and overhearing conversations with my mom that she should be prepared for the worst..but, no broken bones). That was wake-up call number 1.

A yr later one of my friends got all fucked up on drugs and was arrested. I was into drugs as well...until then. That was wake up call number 2. I had a bit of a relapse after my mother's boyfriend became abusive to her..I kicked the crap out of him 3 times. I finally called the cops on him and he was arrested but, my mother took him back a week later and I was out of the house(my choice). That was a setback. Though, I got a job with the same company I am still working for today, I had some lows.

I moved to NH to start over, with the same company (new store openings), and fell into the same crowd I had left. Drinking, fighting...you name it. I've already gone on too long but...all the anger I let out...I showed..it wasn't me. It's what everyone knew of me but...it wasn't me. Then my kids were born....my grandfather passed away and...wake-up call number..well, who knows..my mother was diagnosed with cancer, lived for a yr and died on 8-21-2005. It was exactly 10 days before the 26th anniversary of my father's passing.

I went into a depression and seeked counseling. I am in a much better place today. I still have an aggressive nature, to an extent, but most know me as the nice guy who helps out whenever he can and would give you the shirt off his back..but you wouldn't want to cross. This is usually displayed when someone is hurting or disrespecting someone else only. say what you want to me...I've been through a lot, words are pretty trivial.

The point is, regardless of cognitive functions, your life has an effect on who and how you are. You are still ultimately in control. I am, and have shown (even in my more aggressive days), good at talking bad situations down. I embraced that. I embraced my love of helping people. I accept that some people are just assholes but sometimes they have reasons deeply hidden beneath the surface, and I lengthened my fuse, so to speak. I try to put the positive spin on any and everything in my life that I can. It doesn't always work but, it's where I always begin because there is far more positive to be seen then negative...sometimes our focus need to be a little more distant to see it but, rest assured, it is usually there.

When I was 21, I was exactly as you describe. I don't know martial arts but have been given some tips from both my brother in law (a talented and awarded martial artist) and my cousin Joe...and I practiced and learned from it. I am no body builder and rarely work out any more but I am no small guy. The fact is though, none of it matters unless I need to defend myself, my kids or someone being wronged and then I am capable of holding my own and will, for the right reasons.

As you grow, experience life and move forward you will have choices and paths you can take. They will have an effect on these traits of yours. Choose wisely. It's good to be able to look at yourself from the outside and say.. " Yeah...I respect me".

 

[Clutch072791]

@JaySH Whoa...damn...still processing all that. Im deeply sorry about the passing of your family members, all of the stuff you went through, and for the late response btw. And yes, we do have quite a bit in common. A lot actually. I did also get involved in the wrong crowd for awhile in my mid-teen years. Never really spoke, just hung around em.

Mines not quite a book. Moved around military, dad with anger problems, emotional abuse, mom thought about leaving dad, lots of tears, go to school, bad grades, teasing, anger and confusion (NF kicked in for the worse I guess.) Yes, your very right, some people are just pricks and yeah, I do very much have an "aggressive side" as you do. To be honest, right now its not getting better, its actually getting worse. So I dont know what to do. I guess from bottling up all of the anger and confusion is coming back to bite me in the ass, which was a stupid idea in the first place.

Its just gonna take awhile from what ive guessed and what youve explained. Just gotta be patient as I get older. But it may get darker before it gets lighter.