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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I don’t remember the last time I gave someone a second chance. Usually there will be situations where people will think “well there’s still hope, things will change, and everyone deserves a second chance.” When this happens I’m the person with the “you’ve got to be kidding me,” look in her eye.

I tend to be cautious of everyone I meet. I’ll examine everything about them from the way they speak, smell, move, look – to the way they form their thoughts and arrive at conclusions, including inconsistencies in the things they say in accordance to how they act. The way they speak to others compared to the way they speak to me. The level of intelligence they have is also the most important factor.

I can tell just by being around someone the type of person that he/she is. A lot of people throw the “you can’t judge a book by its cover” line but they don’t understand that it’s much more than that, and I’ve never had it fail me, either.

This leads to an intolerance with certain people, never being able to give second chances because I can literally sense every little thing they would have to work on that they usually aren’t even aware of themselves. A lot of the types seem to think of us as “pushovers” because of how quiet we are, but I really can’t remember the last time I gave someone a second chance once my mind was made up, no matter how badly my emotions screamed “give her/him a chance.”

Are there any other INTP’s like this? How does it affect your relationships with other people?
 

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I give people second chances. It's easy for me to judge someone differently once I better understand their motives for acting a certain way, and it's easy for me to misread someone completely in the first place. If someone does something extremely manipulative or generally indicative of some pathological issue like sociopathy, then yes, I'm absolutely done, because I simply can't trust anything the person does from that point forward, but short of that, I think I'm pretty forgiving. With a few exceptions, it's worked pretty well. People change a lot, especially when they're relatively young.
 

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I do not hold grudges for long .I analyze the situation first,as @Yomiel said if the person is extremely psychopath or sociopath is a big no , but if the person genuinely feels bad and is willing to change for good I am very welcome to give second chances , also I am very slow to anger to exploit,I might be grumpy but not explosive angry ... so sometimes when I am upset is like a cold gaze ,i avoid the person in many ways or all . Also,people change for themselves not because you say you will or force someone .... is ridiculous! but you can influence in a positive way :wink:
 

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I'm very intolerant and I tend to write people off with ease. I've gotten better over time, but I can't think of a single time when I was completely wrong in my analysis of someone. I know the type of people that I want in my life and if someone doesn't fit I'm not bending over backwards to make it work anyway.

That said, even though I'm "intolerant" I'm also pretty flexible. My biggest turn offs are narrow mindedness, histrionics, posturing, manipulation, bullying and general stupidity. As long as someone doesn't fall into one of those mindsets, we're cool. If someone has gotten to the point where I feel the need to cut them off, it has been building for a long time and we aren't going back to normal.
 

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I resonate pretty strongly with a lot of things you said, though I'd say it's come with age rather than an inherent personality trait. There was a time that I was (overly) forgiving and sympathetic, particularly to certain emotional appeals, because I'd really rather aim for peaceful relations. But just because something feels good does not mean that it's the intelligent thing to do.

I no longer believe that everybody deserves a second or even the first one (if they're acting consistently with patterns I've noted to be negative), because 1) I'm usually right about someone's personality/character from the getgo anyway, 2) to ignore this would be to dilute my own standards (well, that's referring more to tolerance of certain things) and only at my own risk, 3) I've had pretty bad experiences that I could have avoided if only I'd been more discerning, even more "judgmental", and accordingly more assertive.

I think I'm pretty much done with trying to be tolerant past the point that it comes naturally now, which is a very low set point. I'll revise my opinion if they give me a good reason, but otherwise, probably not. I'm fine with being a judgmental shit lol, it's what works.
 

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No second chances in my world, but I am guessing my mechanism/definition might be slightly different from what you described :)

I do this too:

I’ll examine everything about them from the way they speak, smell, move, look – to the way they form their thoughts and arrive at conclusions, including inconsistencies in the things they say in accordance to how they act. The way they speak to others compared to the way they speak to me. The level of intelligence they have is also the most important factor.

I can tell just by being around someone they type of person that he/she is. A lot of people throw the “you can’t judge a book by its cover” line but they don’t understand that it’s much more than that, and I’ve never had it fail me, either.
I wouldn't say I've never failed, but I am less and less wrong, and I only learn from my mistakes. I've developed a certain system based on accrued information and experience that helps me avoid inconveniences in the future.

It's not so all or none (and I think you might do this too) but there is a certain threshold (also not so strictly defined) and I let the relationship freely play out, until a few things start to bother me. At that point I'll start to evaluate a few things, but as long as the "threshold" is not hit, I will "wait and see," and not judge or slam the door just yet. I fold the situation as is, let more information accrue. Still meet the person, because it might be premature to push them away, if I am not familiar with these patterns of personality, etc.

There are things that I know I can't or will not tolerate at first glance, and there are others that will raise a small redflag, but will give it some time. I play along until something definitive hits. Then there is no second chance (I think from this point on, is where you and I would agree on almost every detail). Because this "so and so puzzle piece" absolutely has to mean "so and so" that will inevitably turn out to a [negative outcome], etc. It's a simple process of deduction, and if it is down a pattern I know well, I just I know I will never be wrong. I can see the "future of this relationship" like it is happening right now.

At this point, I simply withdraw from the situation/relationship, no questions asked, no explanations given (unnecessary). Some people (might?) view it as weird, thinking I'm being distant too fast for no reason - but I've never been wrong in my life so far when I consciously make such a decision.

And this is not even mentioning instances when people really piss me off and get a formal doorslam :p Then that's about my morals, and respect, etc. etc. ...

If it's a pattern/path unknown to me, I will almost always walk it through the end until I really understand it myself. I don't take words from other people on this matter either ("S/he is [negative], don't go near him/her" or vice versa). But I've done most of such explorations of basic patterns by early 20s, and there is not much these days that makes me very confused or wonder.

Emotions? Of course there are emotions. I tend to love my friends unconditionally, and I am willing to (and I do) put up with a lot, until something absolutely hits the limit (rarely happens now, due to my automatic scanning process almost identical to yours quoted above). I've learned all of my limits the hard way, which means every time I had let my emotions get ahead and put up with things until it became very painful. But even then (or especially then, because I waited so long to let things become so obvious), I never looked back when made my decision to turn away.

Now things are relatively easy and simple, I don't make much mistakes and my social life is almost always pleasurable.

This also allows me to not waste my energy, so I get to focus all of it on meaningful relationships I cherish.


Summary:
- There is no such thing as second chance in my life, because whatever tolerance threshold I hold for people I care enough to have in my life is pretty high to begin with, and is carefully explored (i.e. I consider my "criteria" very reasonable).
- To the point it can still be demanding and exhausting on my side, but that is how much I am invested in getting to know people in depth.
- Which means I still am and always learning; my knowledge of these "patterns" continue to expand, my "criteria" is forever under revision.
- Due to the relatively high tolerance/threshold and extensive research, the resulting experiences of "intolerance" is rare, well-defined, and always definitive.


:)?
 

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YUP. I won't go into exact details but I have one family member that has been dealing with a bit of a nasty drug habit lately and she has led everyone on for the last five years. The entire time, based on knowing her behavior, I kept saying "it isn't going to change. She never changes, it won't happen". Sure enough, I kept getting the same "oh no she is doing so much better blah blah blah excuses". They all know how bad she is yet they continued to buy into her manipulation and lies. Thankfully in the last year the majority of my family has started to come around, even my super skeptical father started sooner then the rest but not before I kept warning that she was using everyone. Before you judge, I have a lot of experience with other people's drug addictions, especially family. She is family and she is what the internet has dubbed an "askhole". Even when it comes to situations where she is being used and abused. She thrives off of chaos. All a product of the environment she was raised in. She would need serious rehabilitation and therapy in order to correct this. She is not strong willed enough to do it on her own. I have examples of a family member who was strong willed enough, and other family members who have not been able to walk away from their addiction on their own and they refuse help.

Also, people tend to think I've been told things or I was snooping through emails or texts because I just know things. It isn't hard to base it off of human behavior when you get to know a person. We are creatures of habit, even I am. While I can be oblivious, I am good at reading between the lines, exceptional at connecting the dots on situations right as they are about to unfold. All based off of human behavior, how people choose to phrase things. I would have been fucking spectacular in some field involving psychology. For the longest time I wanted to go into criminal profiling.

I won't say which family member but before they told me they were sexually molested as a child I had figured it out based on the way certain things were said, finding tidbits of information that most people would ignore. This was when I was still a teenager, they asked me how I knew and I had no answer other than I just did.

As for second chances... it depends on the person, their behavior and how willing I am to move past what happened.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It's official. You are my people. :hug: I dislike having to explain this system to people who want an explanation because there's just so much to explain. There are so many factors I take into account for me to be able to phrase it in any way that would make any sense to the outsider. But I'm glad you guys understand.

INTP's don't tolerate bullshit! Because it's usually so painfully obvious. :dry:
 

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I give second chances to some point, depending fully on the reason of ending before. However, this process will take years.
For example:
Argument at home, me leaving the house: 7 years 0 contact.
Argument with gf of a good friend: 10 years not a word to them.
etc etc;

However, I tend to be forgiving after that many years, but always on my own pace. If forced upon me to act nice and normal to them for some external reason, then add another 10 years.
 

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I'm pretty laid back so people have a lot of leeway with me but if they do cross a line there's no going back. So far no one has gotten back in the inner sanctum if I've decided they were no longer welcome.
 

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I've actually been told I'm extremely forgiving. But I don't fucking forget, especially if it's done over and over. Apparently a certain amount of passive agression comes out when I very automatically point out the hypocrisy of what they said before based on what they are doing now. In some cases someone really actually does feel guilty and suffers, and I feel bad about it. In other cases they just turn white as it dawns on them. But I'll reach a breaking point where I'm not willing to be their human punching bag whether they're aware of this or not, and just go away. I've found I have an attitude and reaction (or lack thereof) to what people say that lets people be really honest to me and open up. This allows for a lot of shots being fired in my direction so that they can work out whatever they need to work out. Sometimes I even think this makes me stronger. But eventually my Fe says "screw this" and without warning I leave.
 

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Well, I should probably add that if someone does show remorse, a willingness to change, and actually asks for an apology and supplements their words with actions, I'm going to have a hard time denying them that. I feel that too often, an apology is handed out as a sort of placation, like an attempt to excuse themselves and get me to shut up, without giving the cause any further inspection. Words are pretty cheap, after all.
 

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I'm weary of people who claim they've always been right about the people they dismiss as bad. If you refuse to acknowledge them after some altercation, then no shit you're not going to see them change, and you're probably going to have a biased way of viewing any of their later actions. Context is key here, and if you think otherwise, you're almost certainly being hypocritical.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I'm weary of people who claim they've always been right about the people they dismiss as bad. If you refuse to acknowledge them after some altercation, then no shit you're not going to see them change, and you're probably going to have a biased way of viewing any of their later actions. Context is key here, and if you think otherwise, you're almost certainly being hypocritical.
Mmm… no. This examination of a person is full from head to toe, all the way in and out, reaching from the past, giving time to note details about the way they act. I’m not talking about altercations. Altercations don’t make me think someone is bad. I’m talking about who the person is, what their intentions are, and how they act in accordance to those intentions; placing them with a certain type of person that I can or cannot trust/respect/tolerate. I think you either don’t understand what is being said here on this thread, or you’re probably a little low on your ability to judge based on factual patterns and observations.
 
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