[Svensenberg]

Just a random question for my fellow INTP peeps: Does anyone else suffer from what seems to be a serious inability to value yourself as much as you should? I've noticed a few other threads on this forum with a similar topic. Is it something that's inherent in the personality type, or is it just that INTP personalities are much more likely to have trouble with positive self-image due to their traits? This has always been a real thorn in my side, and even though I realize that it is largely in my head (I like to think I am of above-average intelligence, average looks, average personality) I still just can't seem to shake that "not good enough" feeling. Any thoughts on this or am I just ranting into thin air about my own problems ?

 

[Ember]

I FEEL YOU BRO.

I am an probably an ENTP with self-confidence/esteem issues/depression that I feel very socially hesitant and always analyze everything, bring out my Ti. It's a funny thing I have going up there in my mind.

I have decided to try and think positive, really. Whenever I get negative thoughts, I tell myself, "abort!" It works sometimes.

 

[Svensenberg]

Its a really weird sort of thing for me. I'm not bad at being social, I have no problem with public speaking or debate or talking with people normally, but I at the same time I think that I can't be genuinely liked by anyone because I'm just too damn weird so I never bother with more than casual acquaintances. It's pretty odd. Like negative self-confidence or something

 

[Richard]

No confidence whatsoever. Whenever I lack confidence in a given area(most of them) I can justify why. It goes beyond just a feeling of worthlessness, but my logic is probably flawed in a few cases.
Even when taking that into account, I still feel that on average I am a fuck up.

I do wonder if things could have been different.

 

[Ablysmal]

My conjecture is that people usually start out with a healthy self esteem. But once they start to display certain qualities that are generally frowned upon, they start to clam up a bit. By what I see, most INTPs have many qualities that people shun, so after being continuously shot down, an INTP's self esteem may begin to plummet.

 

[Muser]

I've recently reread some stuff about demonic Fi and that helps me put at least a shaky finger on my problem. http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/35371-manifestation-demonic-fi-intps.html
It's difficult for me to value myself "just because I should".
All this talk about "You're beautiful, just the way you are" or "It doesn't matter what they think, you're only as good as you believe yourself to be"...
While I admire people who have that self-propelled self-esteem, I just can't accept that type of reasoning regarding my own worth. In fact, people saying things like that to me produces an uneasy and nauseous feeling.

To put it as plainly as possible: Does Not Compute.

When it comes to value-based judgements, I am only as competent/attractive as others think. I may feel good about myself but as soon as I step out of the house, I'm reminded that this is where the jury sits.

 

[Svensenberg]

I have always used it as a sort of fuel for the inner fire. My old line is "nobody can insult me worse than I insult myself." pretty unhealthy way to go about things, for sure, but it works a majority of the time. It would be infinitely easier just to love myself and start from there.

 

[Svensenberg]

It's difficult for me to value myself "just because I should".
All this talk about "You're beautiful, just the way you are" or "It doesn't matter what they think, you're only as good as you believe yourself to be"...
While I admire people who have that self-propelled self-esteem, I just can't accept that type of reasoning regarding my own worth. In fact, people saying things like that to me produces an uneasy and nauseous feeling.

To put it as plainly as possible: Does Not Compute.

When it comes to value-based judgements, I am only as competent/attractive as others think. I may feel good about myself but as soon as I step out of the house, I'm reminded that this is where the jury sits.

I agree. It's almost like Ayn Rand and an Objectivist definition of worth. You are only valuable if you have produced something of value. No one is born being important.

 

[xxWanderer]

I used to have lower self-esteem I've just learnt to believe in my self a lot more. I still worry about self-image from time to time usually I'll just dress in what makes me feel good so I'll be feeling confident. I don't worry about what others think of me as much I don't care anymore as I know whatever anyone thinks doesn't bother me. They can think whatever they like doesn't mean it's actually true. I generally try not to put myself down.

 

[Master of Visibility]

It holds some truth while not being as extreme as it reads. :laughing:

 

[Dupree]

Dunning-Kruger Effect

 

[nadjasix]

Dunning-Kruger Effect

But the findings were that competent people accurately estimate their own competence, they don't underestimate it. Incompetent people overestimate their own competence.

A lot of people think this study is related to intelligence, but competence is a different domain.

Personally, I've known INTPs to be more socially competent than they believe they are.

 

[Dupree]

But the findings were that competent people accurately estimate their own competence, they don't underestimate it. Incompetent people overestimate their own competence.

A lot of people think this study is related to intelligence, but competence is a different domain.

Personally, I've known INTPs to be more socially competent than they believe they are.

"The tendency for those who scored well to underestimate their performance was explained as a form of psychological projection: those who found the tasks easy (and thus scored highly) mistakenly thought that they would also be easy for others." For INTP's, I think intelligence and competence rank as 1a and 1b of qualities related to self-esteem.

 

[RogueWave]

But the findings were that competent people accurately estimate their own competence, they don't underestimate it. Incompetent people overestimate their own competence.

A lot of people think this study is related to intelligence, but competence is a different domain.

Personally, I've known INTPs to be more socially competent than they believe they are.

I think much of that is that some INTPs overestimate the smoothness of the "normal people". The smoothness of their social interactions is an illusion. They make the same small missteps and faux pas that INTPs and everyone else does. The difference is that they're less contentious about them. They don't dwell on their stumblings; they just move on. "The trick is not minding that it hurts."

 

[nadjasix]

"The tendency for those who scored well to underestimate their performance was explained as a form of psychological projection: those who found the tasks easy (and thus scored highly) mistakenly thought that they would also be easy for others." For INTP's, I think intelligence and competence rank as 1a and 1b of qualities related to self-esteem.

Right. They underestimate their relative competence, not their actual performance.

I agree with you, I just wanted to throw that out there...

 

[Dupree]

Right. They underestimate their relative competence, not their actual performance.

I agree with you, I just wanted to throw that out there...

Well according to Dunning and Kruger, "The tendency for those who scored well to underestimate their performance..." I think an underestimation of one's relative competence will, in most cases, invariably cause an underestimation in performance ability because he/she will start assuming that the performance expectations must at least match the average competency level.

 

[nadjasix]

Well according to Dunning and Kruger, "The tendency for those who scored well to underestimate their performance..." I think an underestimation of one's relative competence will, in most cases, invariably cause an underestimation in performance ability because he/she will start assuming that the performance expectations must at least match the average competency level.

Ok, this is a terminology issue.

The competent accurately predicted their raw score. What they underestimated was how that score related to that of others. They thought they did worse than others, when in fact they did better.

My own inability to be confident in my answers makes me terrible at multiple choice. I come up with a million reasons why I'm probably wrong and it could be this, or that... And what if this is a trick question? Oh, the possibilities.

Apparently, the Downing effect can make you a better test taker. (kidding...)

Can't wait until I get to grad school and get hit with a case of imposter syndrome, as well.

 

[Kevinaswell]

I would think entirely differently about myself if I was twice as ignorant and twice as uneducated as I am now. I believe this is the root of self-esteem tendencies in some people who share personality traits with MBTI's classification.

All you need to do to realize nothing you do matters at all in any way is understand a couple dimensions after the 3rd.

And mindfucks aside, many people with positive self images ALSO have these positive self images in conjunction with detrimental traits that go along with, similarly to the latter--but opposite. This suggests negative traits aren't so 'negative' simply because they're labeled 'negative'--if positive self images can cause negative life experiences as well. Nah mean?

In yet other words--if your self-image is NEGATIVE as in you think you suck ass...you should probably look into that with a counseling pyschologist.

But if you're wondering why you don't think you're exactly bubbling with positive qualities that you yourself admire and love about yourself---it may just be because you have a better grip on reality and the true individuality of a person within a giant system that depends on cooperation anyways.

Humans rule!

 

[QuietStorm]

I know what I'm worth -- I just know people who think I'm worth more than I think I am, I also know people who think I'm worth less than I think I am.

I think that feeling of not being "good enough" comes from knowing that you can always do better, no matter how well you think you've been doing. Or at least, that's my problem.
The best way to deal with it is to accept it and then use it as a motivator instead of a debilitator (not entirely sure that that's a word, but I'm using it as one).

 

[LadyO.W.BernieBro]

I would think entirely differently about myself if I was twice as ignorant and twice as uneducated as I am now. I believe this is the root of self-esteem tendencies in some people who share personality traits with MBTI's classification.

All you need to do to realize nothing you do matters at all in any way is understand a couple dimensions after the 3rd.

I think I agree lol.

Nothing you do makes a greater or lesser impact than what I do. Nothing I do makes a greater or lesser impact that what you do, what he does, or what she does.

There is probably a person living somewhere in the world right now who looks exactly like me and she can do whatever she wants. Maybe she's a CEO. Maybe she lives under a bridge. Maybe she's an ESFJ.

She could get hit by a bus and die tomorrow and so could I. Both of have the option to get outside of our heads and live life before that happens.

I am naturally inclined to analyze myself and even look at myself as an object in some ways but I am not self-obsessed and as far as I can tell it's prevented me from developing self-worth issues.