Personality Cafe banner
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I hadn't found any threads on this specific issue and personality clashing, but I thought it important to discuss in case any other INTP's had similar experiences in regards to an emotionally exploitative ENFJ mother/father?

My mother is an ENFJ, and I really do love her. She's funny, thoughtful, always tells me she loves me and hugs me a lot. I have some really fantastic memories with my mum, sometimes we might go through periods where we genuinely delight in each others company, but in saying that, there's a lot behind the scenes crap that she dismisses even happened.

It's the personal unnecessary attacks, CONSTANT guilt trips/passive aggression, always calling me a disappointing shit and a hassle, basically a human hovercraft always wanting to know what I'm up to because quiet = suspicious, never interested in my opinions/interests, made fun of my weight in high school and put me on diets, compares me to other girls, slamming doors in my face, leaving me locked outside when I arrived home 10 minutes past curfew, never let me go to sleepovers or have birthday parties, etc etc. I really was just this slightly overweight, nerd who didn't want any trouble.

Another thing that amazes me is that both of my siblings are both feelers, and aren't nearly as distressed by her? If I'm ever a dick to someone, I usually don't even realize I'm being a dick. I'm probably just being honest haha. But a feeler will be a fucking dick shit to people just because they can and they know better. Inbetween kicking a few cats.

Generally I'm not so sensitive, as usually peoples comments are just water off a ducks back for me. But this is just on a whole different plane. I literally cringe every time I do the absolute slightest thing wrong because I know there's this impending dark cloud waiting to emotionally take a dump on me. She screams anytime I even eat something that I didn't know was hers.

Haha can you tell I'm not bitter? Ah well. If any other INTP's relate or if any other types can offer any additional insights, that'd be cool too. Free therapy, God bless the internet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
625 Posts
Yes, I can relate to a lot of this. Especially the "there's a lot behind the scenes crap that she dismisses even happened." I hate it when she does that! Plus, the comparison of me to other people, seriously? Who cares about other people, as long as you're being yourself, that's what's most important. But she always wants me to be more like this person and that person, well, this is reality: "I'm not that person." Yeah, like everything in the first two lines of your second paragraph, I can relate to and she won't leave me alone to have some peace. She has to be constantly talking!! Help! I know, she has this attitude where she's always right and I'm always wrong! Just so judgemental on the things I do as well, such as researching topics on the internet - she always says, "stop wasting time!" Wtf I'm not, I'm just learning useful things for life!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
369 Posts
I think it doesn't help that we are girl INTPs when dealing with our parents; in many ways we are bound to disappoint :/
 
  • Like
Reactions: Necrofantasia

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,260 Posts
Yeah I relate a lot. The problem is, you know you're driving her crazy too. All of these things that sound hurtful are actually the kinds of things she values and judges/navigates her world by, and to deny these things is to deny her own mindset. Of course she is crazy because she cares, and all of this warped sense of value (to an INTP... ) and behavior is to prevent the very kind of suffering she would endure if she were you... so she has you suffer in the way she intended to prevent... So it's basically all kinds of fucked up.

You do have to realize though, everyone is screwed up by their parents on some level, and other personalities will have their clashings and issues with each other comparable to this.

What I'm usually blown away by though is how no one else can relate to it and see it from the INTPs standpoint. Unless they are INTP. It makes things very difficult to deal. I recommend lots of distance, and communication in writing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
134 Posts
there's a lot behind the scenes crap that she dismisses even happened.

It's the personal unnecessary attacks, CONSTANT guilt trips/passive aggression

Another thing that amazes me is that both of my siblings are both feelers, and aren't nearly as distressed by her? If I'm ever a dick to someone, I usually don't even realize I'm being a dick. I'm probably just being honest haha. But a feeler will be a fucking dick shit to people just because they can and they know better.
Story of my life. How come no one realizes this. Feeler aggression can be so nasty. They are so subtle and esp. those unhealthy ENFJs.. that guilt trap, hierarchy, feelings of entitlement, and denial... don't even get me started.

It's our retarded (but not non-existent!) Fe. We have it, we don't know it, they are natural experts. They know how much we care about them, before we know that ourselves. It makes it so easy for them to pull the strings..

Emotional retards, our fragile idiotic hearts imprinted to our parents at birth.

Our biggest strength (logic, the Ti) is completely useless in this dynamic. ANYONE else would have more strength and resources to deal with this situation.


Goddammit fellas. We've all done a great job, surviving.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
625 Posts
yeah i relate a lot. The problem is, you know you're driving her crazy too. All of these things that sound hurtful are actually the kinds of things she values and judges/navigates her world by, and to deny these things is to deny her own mindset. Of course she is crazy because she cares, and all of this warped sense of value (to an intp... ) and behavior is to prevent the very kind of suffering she would endure if she were you... So she has you suffer in the way she intended to prevent... So it's basically all kinds of fucked up.

You do have to realize though, everyone is screwed up by their parents on some level, and other personalities will have their clashings and issues with each other comparable to this.

What i'm usually blown away by though is how no one else can relate to it and see it from the intps standpoint. Unless they are intp. It makes things very difficult to deal. I recommend lots of distance, and communication in writing.
THIS!! why, why, why?? The only person I've found who can relate to it is my ISTP dad but sometimes even he gets manipulated by her vicious Fe!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
I'm an only child of a single, ENFJ mom. She could be a beautiful human being at times, but she was a really neurotic and possibly bpd ENFJ. She does NOT respect boundaries, last couple years I lived with her I got a lock on my door and split all the bills 50/50 so there would be one less thing for her to hold over my head.

I also felt like I was a surrogate husband to her. She would try to use me for emotional support, basically expected me to take care of her and listen to her talk about everything and anything including things that were inappropriate and I fucking hated it. It was completely incestuous on an emotional/social level, I really didn't like the way she looked at me sometimes like she was checking me out.

She was also in constant denial of her issues, had a total victim mentality, blew all of her money (and child support) waiting until way past the due date to pay the bills, she was an alcoholic, she had rage issues and most importantly of all she didn't want to get help.

I'm 26 now and I haven't talked to her in two years besides sending her a happy birthday text. I basically asked myself how long I could go without picking up the phone.

Despite most women telling me I'm a "cutie" in terms of physical attractiveness and being able to attract Ni type women like a magnet, I really, really have a hard time getting close to anyone and I really, really hate dating. I'm like Charlie Day in 'Is it's Always Sunny in Philadelphia' trying to go on a date. I'm panicking and screaming on the inside and I totally self-sabotage. Thanks mom, ya fucking asshole.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
591 Posts
Yeah I relate a lot. The problem is, you know you're driving her crazy too. All of these things that sound hurtful are actually the kinds of things she values and judges/navigates her world by, and to deny these things is to deny her own mindset. Of course she is crazy because she cares, and all of this warped sense of value (to an INTP... ) and behavior is to prevent the very kind of suffering she would endure if she were you... so she has you suffer in the way she intended to prevent... So it's basically all kinds of fucked up.

You do have to realize though, everyone is screwed up by their parents on some level, and other personalities will have their clashings and issues with each other comparable to this.

What I'm usually blown away by though is how no one else can relate to it and see it from the INTPs standpoint. Unless they are INTP. It makes things very difficult to deal. I recommend lots of distance, and communication in writing.
Can you please go more in depth about this part, i would really like to know more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,260 Posts
Can you please go more in depth about this part, i would really like to know more.
To me it is very complex, probably because I've been in the middle of it. But two things are key to keep in mind about it: she intends to be kind and considerate, and she is in constant pain and is constantly suffering. The second one tends to bring out negative qualities in her Fe and Ni; she is extremely reactionary and extremely adept at coming to the most outlying justifications for desperate paranoia. The first one warps her psychology so that when she falls into a manic and hysterical force of destruction, she doesn't remember it or else she falls back into it. Her experience is very vivid and very impressionable so that when someone breaks the rules she has relied on to ensure her survival, she panics. Does that help?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
591 Posts
=forgotten reason;30120354]To me it is very complex, probably because I've been in the middle of it. But two things are key to keep in mind about it: she intends to be kind and considerate, and she is in constant pain and is constantly suffering.
Was what kind of things in the OP, or are you speaking generally?
The second one tends to bring out negative qualities in her Fe and Ni; she is extremely reactionary and extremely adept at coming to the most outlying justifications for desperate paranoia.
Okay, so she is very good at coming up with excuses for her paranoia that came from above suffering.
The first one warps her psychology so that when she falls into a manic and hysterical force of destruction, she doesn't remember it or else she falls back into it. Her experience is very vivid and very impressionable so that when someone breaks the rules she has relied on to ensure her survival, she panics. Does that help?
So all above becomes too much, she just breaks? If so that would be a decent explanation for rash decision making.
Do you happen to have a copy of that rule-book, it would be very helpful

And yes, it was helpful, unless i drew some wrong conclusions.

PS: By the way, do you know a good place to get in depth info about cognitive functions, iv'e seen summaries on random sites, but not much in depth.
PPS: I had just realized after writing that i had asked you to rationally explain the deep dark center of an emotional storm...sorry.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
744 Posts
It's the personal unnecessary attacks, CONSTANT guilt trips/passive aggression, always calling me a disappointing shit and a hassle, basically a human hovercraft always wanting to know what I'm up to because quiet = suspicious, never interested in my opinions/interests, made fun of my weight in high school and put me on diets, compares me to other girls, slamming doors in my face, leaving me locked outside when I arrived home 10 minutes past curfew, never let me go to sleepovers or have birthday parties, etc etc.
This sounds like my mom and my aunt's childhood, just add being beaten and being put into life-threatening situations and that sums it up. I typed my grandma as an ENFJ via test. My mom has told me many stories about when she was around 13, my grandma would often put a gun upto her own head and threaten suicide. It got to the point where my mom told her to just do it already. My mom and aunt got into drugs early and they always lived in extrodinarily bad neighborhoods, at about the same age my mom was being chased after the person who sold her those drugs, she was stalked and nearly gang-raped twice by said stalkers. My grandma refused to move because she didn't think the problem warrented it... that was until they destroyed her car one night. Nothing was ever important to her unless it directly involved her or her things.
Recounting those same stories by my grandma, she did everything she could but she didn't want to leave because "she had good friends and liked her job" and they didn't live in "that bad" of neighborhoods. It was really "my moms fault" because "she has a bad attitude."
They lived in the same areas with M13, the Yakuza, and the Mongols. (Not all at the same time, they moved all over the US a kids, but were always very impoverished. Sometimes lived near or on gang borders.)

Growing up I was sheltered from much of this, and because I wasn't her first-born grandchild she was always plesant and nice to me. She didn't have any special interest like she does with my cousin, who always had to deal with her darker crap. Now as an adult, though, she has started doing a similar thing. Completely unwarranted insults and guilt-trips (which frankly doesn't work. My mom did everything she could to parentally separate herself from her mother and because of that has given me the tools to deal with these situations).

I understand that my grandma is special kind of really fucked up, but still even with "healthier" ENFJs and knowing the mental health issues I had growing up- I wouldn't have made it to 13.
So kudos to everyone who's had an unleathy ENFJ parent and survived.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
I wanna clarify even though nobody's asking. I've known a few enfjs and who were really wonderful to be around. One former co-worker of mine was like a ray of sunshine. I immediately noticed when she hadn't been to work in a few days because she had quit (high-volume restaurant w/ lots of employees, high turnover rate, normally hard to notice comings and goings).

So...yeah. To the OP, either:

1. Silently put up with it
2. Get better at establishing boundaries (be direct: "I don't like/I don't appreciate when you....", "my personal life is none of your business". Make yourself clear, be confident. If they persist, shut down the conversation)
3. Distance yourself from toxic family members
4. Separate entirely from toxic family members

I've done all of the above, using separation as a last resort. And it hasn't been with just the ENFJ mom. It was also with XSTJ dad and ESFJ step-mom.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top