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Discussion Starter #1
So I've noticed this with myself and wondered if it applies to anyone other INTP and specifically if there is an MBTI interpretation to it:

Quite often I have day dreams that are centrered around myself voluntarily going into isolation, as a Hermit. In this Hermitude I accomplish/think up of something great which is celebrated after my death.

That is basically the gist of it while the details can change quite a bit. Importantly though the accomplishment is usually intellectual (a few times spiritual) in nature. So could this be seen as a conflict between an INTP sense of alienation and introversion (wanting isolation) and the need for approval and community benefit (Fe)?

And if there is this internal contradiction between our desire for independence and need for acceptance then can this lead to a greater sense of alienation or existential dread (which seems to be a common theme in INTP threads).

Just curious....
 

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I get what you mean, I'd love to contribute to society but I'd rather it didn't put me in the lime-light. For me it's not so much a need for acceptance, but more a desire to contribute to something I value (society) without the need or want to take part in it. I've never considered that this might be a manifestation of Fe.
 

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Absolutely. I sort of want the best of both worlds; recognition from the planet, yet solitude when I want it. Fe as an inferior function (as far as I understand it) seeks out harmonious external environments, so we prefer environments that feel good and we pick up on "vibes" pretty well.

I guess it could be grounds for an existential crisis. I often note that I either feel overwhelmed or alone; both bother me very much. It can feel like you're incompatible with the world you live in at times, which isn't a very pleasant thing to deal with :sad:
 
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Absolutely. I sort of want the best of both worlds; recognition from the planet, yet solitude when I want it. Fe as an inferior function (as far as I understand it) seeks out harmonious external environments, so we prefer environments that feel good and we pick up on "vibes" pretty well.

I guess it could be grounds for an existential crisis. I often note that I either feel overwhelmed or alone; both bother me very much. It can feel like you're incompatible with the world you live in at times, which isn't a very pleasant thing to deal with :sad:
Yes this is what I am getting at needing a harmonious environment that validates us but this desire is overwhelmed by our Ti independent streak and Ne unorthodoxy. The existence of these two seem contadictory and at this point, unresolvable. Hence this conflict is played out in semi-lucid day dream states. Is this relovable or something we just get better at adapting to (the conflict)...or is this interpreatation completely off?
 

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I usually daydream about talking to people. I simulate different situations and how the conversations will develop.

Looks like my Fe trying to develop itself, but through a Ti process. Odd.

And if there is this internal contradiction between our desire for independence and need for acceptance then can this lead to a greater sense of alienation or existential dread (which seems to be a common theme in INTP threads).
Maybe our desire is to be accepted as we are: independent. :happy:
 

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I’ve always wanted to pursue my passions and contribute to humanity in a beneficial way but I do not want to receive rewards such as superficial popularity. I want to detach and observe, while occasionally poking my head into society, or working diligently in the background, and then escape to the log cabin in the forest.

I especially don’t enjoy success for the sole purpose of gaining recognition from others. For instance, I used to fight in combat sports and did quite well. When you regularly win, everyone around you wants to follow you and become your best friend, but when you lose, those same people will not be around. I want to achieve but I don’t want to deal with the superficialities and illusions that feed the ego. I want to achieve and help people for personal reasons and not for what I can get out of it.
 

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From my research, Inferior function can either be simply a fourth function, or can be the least used of all the functions. It depends whether you go off of Jung or Meyer-Briggs theory; according to Jung, it's the least used. Yet from all sources, Fe is the inferior function. Is one right? Is one wrong? I think it's possible that the primary, secondary, etc. simply refers to the order in which the functions are used or developed. As INTPs, are we limited to only introverted thinking, extroverted intuition, introverted sensing and extroverted feeling? Do we even carry the others? Are they that different? It would make more sense if we didn't... yet it would seem inaccurate. I need to study the difference soon.

I think INTPs need confirmation from other people, since they don't trust their own judgment... but after that confirmation is given, they want to leave and do their own thing. Later, though, if they fail, they're going to doubt the judgment of the other person as well. I think I work that way. Not sure. Anyone else think so? (Of course, after you say I'm right, I'm going to leave to study this on my own, because even though you're INTPs, I guess I just don't trust either you, a few people, or the Internet, cold, without backup. That's just me.)
 

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As INTPs, are we limited to only introverted thinking, extroverted intuition, introverted sensing and extroverted feeling? Do we even carry the others? Are they that different?
As humans, we transcend our particular types and display all the cognitive functions to some degree. As to how we use these functions, according to some typological theories, we have shadow functions which may arise through fatigue, stress, illness, depression, and so on. Even among our four cognitive preferences, there is a hierarchy, but that doesn't mean we'll always use the dominant function.

On the other hand, there seems to be studies that correlate extroversion and introversion to both biological and environmental controls, such as cortical arousal, sensitivity to dopamine levels from external stimuli, amount of blood flow to the frontal lobes, and so on. There are quite a few theories and studies about our anatomical preferences, which can be found on Google and in this forum (there's a thread about the science of MBTI).

I think INTPs need confirmation from other people, since they don't trust their own judgment... but after that confirmation is given, they want to leave and do their own thing. Later, though, if they fail, they're going to doubt the judgment of the other person as well. I think I work that way. Not sure. Anyone else think so? (Of course, after you say I'm right, I'm going to leave to study this on my own, because even though you're INTPs, I guess I just don't trust either you, a few people, or the Internet, cold, without backup. That's just me.)
I'm completely uncertain about things that seem the most certain until I gain feedback. On the other hand, I'll still question the validity of the feedback, and of myself.
 
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I usually daydream about talking to people. I simulate different situations and how the conversations will develop.

Looks like my Fe trying to develop itself, but through a Ti process. Odd.


Maybe our desire is to be accepted as we are: independent. :happy:

Yes this too especially imagining talking to other people. This usually plays out as a devils advocate situation in order to flesh out a line of thought but occasionally it involves some form of admiration from the imaginry person (usually conveyed subtly). This could, hypothetically, be the Ti method of rationalising the development of Fe?

Afterall through this process the emotional validation is first thought out and there a basis for it, accomplishment. Therefore it is justified admiration and then bang, Fe is allowed out of its cage (INTP's: making cr*p more complicated than it needs to be?):mellow:
 

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I do believe that everybody wants some amount of either public or personal recognition (Fe or Fi). It seems that certain types are more likely to want one or the other depending on their functions. Since daydreams reflect our subconscious, it makes sense that our subconscious desires would include our inferior (Fe) function. The inferior function is said to be strictly subconscious for most people until middle age. Subconsciously we express our need to be appreciated, to be accepted and to be desired by other people. Through the dominant Ti function it can become the need to be useful to other people, which is the point at which you might become consciously aware of your Fe. If you deny or ignore your Fe function, it could even become part of your ego and thus the desire to be necessary to other people or even to the world.
 
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