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MOTM July 2010
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I've read that some of you have ESTJ best friend and some of you have romantic relationship with ESTJ.

From your POV, what do you think about your ESTJ(s)? What do you like and dislike from them? What do you like and dislike about your relationship with them?
Do you feel some sort of connection with them? How do you describe the connection?

I have several INTP friends, but I don't know much about them. From my POV, they seems distant and secretive, yet somehow I feel comfortable around them. I kinda wish they feel comfortable around me too.
 
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I don't think I could have a best friend or personal relationship with an ESTJ. However, I do work with one. (At least, I am 80% certain she is. I've expressed a few thoughts in Phantom's Am I an INTP thread)

Naturally, as we work so close together, we know bits and bobs about each other, but thinking of it the highest irration I have of her is her probing. I wil say that I won't do this (variable N task or activity). She'll ask why. I'll try and explain in an inarticulate way, but the trouble is most of the time it is gut feeling, something I can't express in words or really don't want to express in words. She'll again ask why. I'll fob her off with an excuse. She isn't easily fobbed off. She will break down my argument, with much toing and froing until either a) I do the bloody thing, b) I ignore her (which sometimes sends her into a brief sulk) or c) I finally come up with the ultimate killer excuse (which she sometimes believes, sometimes doesn't)

The connection, I suppose, is the T. She is actually enjoyable to either argue with or bounce ideas off of. But I can't totally relax with her, this will sound a bit daft, I don't trust her. As she is forever bitching about others when they're not there, I can't help wondering if I'm suffering the same treatment when I'm not there.
 

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My father's tests say he is an ESTJ. (Although I am not quite sure if it is just another bout of self-aggrandizement.) He is a good conversationalist, but attempts to drag me out of my introversion far too frequently. I usually try to avoid him, which, in my mind, is equal to avoiding emotional exhaustion.
 
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I find I can work well with xSTJs, because there feels like a "natural" order where the xSTJ functions as the manager/organiser/doer whereas I function as an auxiliary providing ideas/solutions, problem-solving and being a critic (quality audit, I call it).

The connection, I suppose, is the T. She is actually enjoyable to either argue with or bounce ideas off of. But I can't totally relax with her, this will sound a bit daft, I don't trust her. As she is forever bitching about others when they're not there, I can't help wondering if I'm suffering the same treatment when I'm not there.
Outside of work & projects however, I find it hard to relax or chill with ISTJs. Not sure why, but may be attributed to a preference to connect with people who are more comfortable expressing their feelings. It also seems to me that xSTJs seem to live strictly by rules, which INTPs may not feel totally comfortable with.
 

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xSTJs seem to live strictly by rules, which INTPs may not feel totally comfortable with.
OMG yes. Actually, my work is practically a set of rules, and a Service Agreement with the client that we have to live up to. But she is a stickler for playing it by the book rather than "bending the rules a little" so as to make life easier.
 
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My second best friend is an ESTJ. He's also my younger cousin, turns 18 next month.

He's cool to be around, but he's really into organization and seems to be OCD. That bothers me a bit, as I am messy (and like it that way)... his sense of humor is actually somewhat similar to mine... or at least we can have some seriously hilarious conversations about completely random things either one of us brings up.

We had a conversation on the meaning of "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" yesterday, and it was funny.

Another friend of mine is an ESTJ and he is a compulsive liar and shit-talker, as well as hypersocial to the maximum. Still yet, he's fun to be around, and despite our (rather large) differences, I like him. Being around him for two days straight was a pain in the ass, though. Like, I'd do it again, but he really did keep me on my feet. The only alone time I got was when going to sleep or the one hour he went out talking to people while I rested. I wasn't going to go back out with him, but there was tension in the air, so I did. And it was fun.

I like ESTJs, all things considered.

I don't think I could have a relationship with one, however. ESTP might work (emphasis on "might"), but I very much believe I've found my romantic type. (INFP, that is.)

The problem with an INTP-ESTJ romance would be that it's really hard to talk deep with them unless they're really high or some such, and then once they've gone deep into philosophy or theoretical ideas, they shut down their brains and focus on the immediate. I can't talk deep with them much as a result, and that's one thing I need in a partner. This problem is curiously not present in ESTPs, from what I know of them.
 

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Another friend of mine is an ESTJ and he is a compulsive liar and shit-talker, as well as hypersocial to the maximum. Still yet, he's fun to be around, and despite our (rather large) differences, I like him. Being around him for two days straight was a pain in the ass, though. Like, I'd do it again, but he really did keep me on my feet. The only alone time I got was when going to sleep or the one hour he went out talking to people while I rested. I wasn't going to go back out with him, but there was tension in the air, so I did. And it was fun.
I don't think your friend is an ESTJ. We are not creative enough (generally) to come up with lies and maintain them. We live our lives based on facts. Living a lie is foreign to us. Lies are not good for society (the way you seem to explain him anyway), and shit talking is much like problem admiration- we fix problems, we generally don't sit around and bitch about them. Probably an ENXJ. The shit talking makes me think he's probably a J- judging everyone and everything, but in general, he does not seem like an ESTJ to me.
 

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ESTJs say it like it is, I might like one as a friend!
 

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I don't think your friend is an ESTJ. We are not creative enough (generally) to come up with lies and maintain them. We live our lives based on facts. Living a lie is foreign to us. Lies are not good for society (the way you seem to explain him anyway), and shit talking is much like problem admiration- we fix problems, we generally don't sit around and bitch about them. Probably an ENXJ. The shit talking makes me think he's probably a J- judging everyone and everything, but in general, he does not seem like an ESTJ to me.
He is definitely an ESTJ, albeit an unhealthy one.

It's not like he's a bad person. He's not. He doesn't lie about important or serious things, he only lies to make himself seem awesome. Part of his problem (and why everyone cares) is because he's not creative enough to make up good lies.

Here are a few of his tales:

• At Ozzfest 2004, he claims to have met, drank with, played guitar with, and gotten a signed pick by Zakk Wylde. This is impossible on many levels, as he was 13 years old at the time.
• If you ask about any band in the history of mankind, he has seen them at Ozzfest. Probably Ozzfest 2004, where he personally witnessed easily over two hundred bands play.
• He's fat, ungroomed, and not much to look at, but claims to be able to get any girl he wants. When challenged, he backs out of approaching. When he backs out, he claims it's because he felt bad or some such.

Those are the small things. If you don't challenge him on any of them (as I made the mistake of not doing), he will move on to bigger and better things.

"I was having sex with my girlfriend the other day and suddenly she turned into a Ferrari, dude. No shit. Seriously. Really. Then we raced Mustangs smoking blunts and blew them the fuck away. My Ferrari girlfriend suddenly grew rocket boosters and we flew to the moon, where I played guitar with Jimi Hendrix and Zakk Wylde. Dude, it was the best thing ever."

Totally... fucking... serious.
 

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Lol sounds like someone I wouldn't give the time of day to... lying is a huge pet peev of mine. Your friend sounds like an Alpha male gone wrong. I'm an alpha female but you'd never hear me make up that kind of stuff. Again, were generally not that creative and although repulsive, he sounds entertaining. Go figure.
 

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I think the fact that ESTJ and INTP are both T-dom types lends some mutual understanding. I like the way Te-doms think and I like working with ESTJ's as long as they do not have the authority to threaten me when I don't do things their way. If the ESTJ wants to take the lead that is fine by me as long as they are competent at it. I had a boss who was probably this type. I think she was good at doing the administrative work but was terrible at managing people. We clashed, because she clashed with almost everyone. But she liked me because I was "tough" like her and I appreciated her direct style of communication.

While I like working with STJ's (sometimes), I cannot imagine being in a close personal relationship with one. that is despite the fact that I am married to an ISTJ. I was attracted to his loyal and dutiful nature and he was attracted to my caring side. Alas, I have come to find out that it is not a good match emotionally or intellectually. It is very hard to get him to consider points of view besides his own. He seems to hate my extroverted intuition; at best it bores him and at worst he tells me I have "no standards." We can agree on something yet still argue about it, and I finally figured out why. We may agree on "A," but I am thinking of "B" and "C" that also need to be taken into account and he just won't go there with me. He is stuck on "A" and I have no standards because I want to consider "B" and "C." On the good side, we do make good room mates. :tongue:
 

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Lol sounds like someone I wouldn't give the time of day to... lying is a huge pet peev of mine. Your friend sounds like an Alpha male gone wrong. I'm an alpha female but you'd never hear me make up that kind of stuff. Again, were generally not that creative and although repulsive, he sounds entertaining. Go figure.
He is, without a doubt, one of the most loyal friends I have. I have no complaints, overall.

Now for something completely different...

As far as alpha/beta goes... I'm not an alpha male. I'm not an alpha male at all.

I disagree with the concept as a whole (based primarily on how it simplifies human relations and misinterprets the actual social structure of animals), but I'd definitely be a beta if alpha/beta really applies.
 

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Yes - have to agree it is their best trait, my ESTJ is absolutely loyal (but demands it in return). Said on t'other thread that I truly believe she would rip out her own liver if she thought she could save a good friend or close relation.

I used to think my Better Half was IST/FJ, but since studying the functions I think he is more ISFP, maybe INFP, although there is ISTJ'ness in him where he gets angry when I refuse to form an absolute opinion on something. (One day I'll work him out, he's not an easy one. No rush, I'm having far too much fun working out myself :laughing:)
 
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I just started a relationship with an ESTJ. So far it has been pretty carefree, and we have tons of fun together. Some nights we dont even go out and just lay in bed cracking jokes back and forth until we fall asleep. I really liked her bc she forces me to speak my mind. The first serious conversation we had about relationships she asked me what I wanted. I gave her my usual response of, "I dont know." She was like, "No, not acceptable, you have to know, tell me now!" In my head I was like, "ahhh shit, think." I asked her to give me a minute, and I eventually found the words to describe my thoughts. I really like her loyalty and determination to work things out too. I am sort of the same way, in regards to loyalty and determination. I definitely know im a N-P (generally lazy and unorganized), but i am accomplished at work and currently in grad-school. I think that mellows out her bossiness. What I mean is, she respects me and knows I get done whatever I need to get done. I read that house hold chores is a major annoyance for ESTJ's. We dont live together, so I dont know how that will be. But when I am at her place I clean up after myself, and when I know she is coming over to my place I try to clean up.
 

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I've been in a relationship with my ESTJ for almost four years now and it has and is the best relationship of my life. He is honest, loyal, tells me what's on his mind, hard working to support our family... I couldn't have met a better match for me IMO. He understand my personality, he's used to my "ways" and I'm most definitely going to marry him someday. :) Oh and he says that his best friend is INTP, some of his favorite famous people or musicians are INTP. We have a very strong connection... from day one. We have had plenty of time to learn about each other though. He is my rock... we make a great balance.
 

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I noticed that when I'm with my compulsive liar ESTJ friend and we're walking around the university, usually with an entire group of people (INTP, ESTP, INTJ, ENFJ, few others), we lead the group and are quite ahead talking about random shit. ESTJs know how to bring out my inner socialite, I suppose. Not that I'm anti-social or anything.
 

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ESTJ's...lol

Father is one and so is my best friend. I figured they were similar before I even knew about MBTI. They are both conservative, intelligent and diligent in work. Their intelligence is...different though. Its not very very broad, nor deep but it is powerful. It works a bit like a train, it can only ever move in one direction, A to B and even the fires of hell couldn't put them of their tracks. This means both of them can overcome most obstacles they put their mind to despite setbacks or unknown problems arising very quickly and painlessly. On the other hand, boy can they be close minded at times and although we can have good debates it is rather frustrating as they never even consider another point of view. Strength as weakness I suppose. Still great people from what I know so far.
 

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If only my ESTJ gf was interested in interesting things. Honestly, I settled on her.
 

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That can't be a healthy relationship...
I have accepted who she is, and she puts up with me and makes me wanna do shit in my life. I guess this is...love (does not compute).

Still, it would be nice; c'est la vie.
 
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